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Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
September 23 2014 03:32 GMT
#2901
On September 23 2014 12:15 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 05:06 SoylentGamer wrote:
does correlation = causation?

not automatically, but the way the people use the "fallacy" on the internet is idiotic, too. Obviously two things correlating strongly may indicate that there is a causal relation between them, that's why we make experiments.

its not that obvious, there could be a third hidden factor that correlates with the two observed factor but the two observed factors are not in fact impacting each other, you just dont see that third factor and are tricked into it.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-23 03:40:51
September 23 2014 03:39 GMT
#2902
On September 23 2014 12:32 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 12:15 Nyxisto wrote:
On September 23 2014 05:06 SoylentGamer wrote:
does correlation = causation?

not automatically, but the way the people use the "fallacy" on the internet is idiotic, too. Obviously two things correlating strongly may indicate that there is a causal relation between them, that's why we make experiments.

its not that obvious, there could be a third hidden factor that correlates with the two observed factor but the two observed factors are not in fact impacting each other, you just dont see that third factor and are tricked into it.


Yes, but the correlation=! causation stuff that's repeated so often implies that there seemingly is no connection between the two, which is wrong. If person x punches person y in the face ten thousand times, and it hurts ten thousand times, no body would argue that this correlation doesn't imply anything. You can't prove causation, you simply repeat an experiment so often until you are confident to say: "okay now the chance that the correlation happened by accident is really, really small".
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
September 23 2014 04:06 GMT
#2903
On September 23 2014 12:39 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 12:32 Sub40APM wrote:
On September 23 2014 12:15 Nyxisto wrote:
On September 23 2014 05:06 SoylentGamer wrote:
does correlation = causation?

not automatically, but the way the people use the "fallacy" on the internet is idiotic, too. Obviously two things correlating strongly may indicate that there is a causal relation between them, that's why we make experiments.

its not that obvious, there could be a third hidden factor that correlates with the two observed factor but the two observed factors are not in fact impacting each other, you just dont see that third factor and are tricked into it.


Yes, but the correlation=! causation stuff that's repeated so often implies that there seemingly is no connection between the two, which is wrong. If person x punches person y in the face ten thousand times, and it hurts ten thousand times, no body would argue that this correlation doesn't imply anything. You can't prove causation, you simply repeat an experiment so often until you are confident to say: "okay now the chance that the correlation happened by accident is really, really small".


I get that the correlation/causation thing is overdone in internet discussion, often applied incorrectly. See also, the misuse of "red herring," "Occam's razor" or even generally "logical fallacy."

But the punching thing is not the issue. The issue is cases like how violent crime is related to ice cream sales. Even if the relation were very strong, it would not be because ice cream causes crime, or visa versa. Both are related to heat, which is an independent factor that happens to cause both of the above. There is no causal relationship between the effects, and to say there is a causation is incorrect.

For a popular real example of this, look at pretty much any study reported by a media outlet on things that "cause" IQ increases, better job performance, etc. Of course there are causes to these things. But saying that eating fast food makes you dumber is simply failing to control for the variables of wealth/class/region.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18413 Posts
September 23 2014 04:32 GMT
#2904
And that's not even talking about spurious correlations...

When you start searching for patterns in large enough amounts of data you will find them. Just look at bible numerology for an (in)famous example. However, it takes quite a bit more go explain the data than a simple statistical test. All correlation in a data set can do is indicate that there is something worth investigating; not that you've actually found anything.
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
September 23 2014 10:19 GMT
#2905
Is it common to commute long distances for people in the US? Here the hardcore commuters I know do maximum 60 km to go / 60 to come back. Do people in the US commute like 200-300 km? I heard tales about that
Dating thread on TL LUL
.kaz
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
1963 Posts
September 23 2014 10:46 GMT
#2906
On September 23 2014 19:19 SoSexy wrote:
Is it common to commute long distances for people in the US? Here the hardcore commuters I know do maximum 60 km to go / 60 to come back. Do people in the US commute like 200-300 km? I heard tales about that


I'm not sure I have heard of anyone driving 200-300 km to commute (120-180 Miles by us measurements) but its somewhat common for people to travel that far or further on Monday and stay for the work week, then fly / drive home on Friday. This is usually only the case in places where its cheaper to do that then live where you work (New York City, Los Angeles) or if the job pays for the travel, also its possible if you're a very high profile (You make enough that the travel is negligible compared to what you are payed) but do not want to live inside a big city. For example, lets say wealthy people who work in New York City sometimes own houses outside of New York state, such as Rhode Island or Connecticut where their family resides, and they practice this.

Take all this with a grain of salt, everyone's case is different and I dont actually live in an area where this takes place.
Pressure - "rock is the defender of justice" 이병민 / 박영민 Hwaiting~
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
September 23 2014 10:52 GMT
#2907
On September 23 2014 19:46 .kaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 19:19 SoSexy wrote:
Is it common to commute long distances for people in the US? Here the hardcore commuters I know do maximum 60 km to go / 60 to come back. Do people in the US commute like 200-300 km? I heard tales about that


I'm not sure I have heard of anyone driving 200-300 km to commute (120-180 Miles by us measurements) but its somewhat common for people to travel that far or further on Monday and stay for the work week, then fly / drive home on Friday. This is usually only the case in places where its cheaper to do that then live where you work (New York City, Los Angeles) or if the job pays for the travel, also its possible if you're a very high profile (You make enough that the travel is negligible compared to what you are payed) but do not want to live inside a big city. For example, lets say wealthy people who work in New York City sometimes own houses outside of New York state, such as Rhode Island or Connecticut where their family resides, and they practice this.

Take all this with a grain of salt, everyone's case is different and I dont actually live in an area where this takes place.


This was very informative, thanks
Dating thread on TL LUL
Faraday
Profile Joined April 2009
United States553 Posts
September 23 2014 12:12 GMT
#2908
Is it true that people in korea almost never see the blue sky because of the pollution? Or is it just a myth?
what happened, happened...
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15366 Posts
September 23 2014 12:41 GMT
#2909
In Korea in general? Not even a myth.

In Seoul specifically? Just a myth. It's overcast a lot though.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
SoleSteeler
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada5472 Posts
September 23 2014 12:53 GMT
#2910
I see the blue, blue sky here in Seoul more often than overcast skies. However between ~May - late August it's pretty hazy from a combination of the humidity and pollution.
Yoav
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1874 Posts
September 23 2014 13:25 GMT
#2911
On September 23 2014 19:19 SoSexy wrote:
Is it common to commute long distances for people in the US? Here the hardcore commuters I know do maximum 60 km to go / 60 to come back. Do people in the US commute like 200-300 km? I heard tales about that


Really depends where you are. I lived for a while in the NYC area. The commutes there can be very long in time, though they are generally shorter in distance. Longest I knew of was 60 mi (~100km), most are half that in distance or less. Traffic however can push even a 30 mi (50km) commute into being several hours long on a bad day. I've also lived in the rocky mountain west. There are absolutely 100km+ commutes out there along the valley floors, but the gnarliest ones are the (usually shorter) commutes over treacherous passes. A commute from Victor Idaho to Teton village is like 50km, and is a half hour on a good day, but will often be double that, triple that, or even literally impossible depending on snow conditions.
Epishade
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2267 Posts
September 28 2014 03:00 GMT
#2912
Does Facebook let you post that you're in a relationship with a sibling or cousin?
Pinhead Larry in the streets, Dirty Dan in the sheets.
claybones
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States244 Posts
September 29 2014 00:43 GMT
#2913
Does anyone know where to find that "drink and a pizza" music video they kept playing during Dreamhack this weekend?
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
September 29 2014 03:07 GMT
#2914
Is Pat Condell a comedian?
Epishade
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2267 Posts
September 30 2014 03:57 GMT
#2915
Why shouldn't we nuke Mt. Everest?
Pinhead Larry in the streets, Dirty Dan in the sheets.
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
September 30 2014 04:05 GMT
#2916
because it has no oil
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
Meepman
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada610 Posts
September 30 2014 04:13 GMT
#2917
Nor does it have any racial tensions to milk for conflict
Orcasgt24
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada3238 Posts
September 30 2014 07:36 GMT
#2918
If you where to guess how much it would cost to ship the stuff a normal 1 bedroom apartment would have(1couch, queen size mattress and boxspring, 1 dresser and just "stuff") from one end of canada to the other how much do you think it would be?
In Hearthstone we pray to RNGesus. When Yogg-Saron hits the field, RNGod gets to work
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
September 30 2014 08:04 GMT
#2919
$450 USD
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-30 21:11:37
September 30 2014 08:32 GMT
#2920
I don't know if that's an accurate estimate, but I personally was expecting it to be quite a bit more than that.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
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