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On June 22 2011 05:47 DeepElemBlues wrote:
oh please the US spends about 700 billion a year on defense currently as said about 5% of GDP guess how much health care is? 16% last i checked and rising. thats a lot more than 700 billion.
no one ignores it, people who think about it dismiss it because its unrealistic and wouldnt help anyway
The only thing unrealistic is expecting that having military bases in 170+ different countries will be sustainable, it will fall apart like all empires.
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I recall a news article about a husband entering the army in order to provide his cancer-stricken wife with medicare. It was the only way they could afford it.
Speaking as an outsider, it sounds as though the US forces you to buy health insurance in order to have medicare. I understand the US' love of private enterprises and such, but why would you let anyone except your government control healthcare? A private enterprise is by definition looking out for itself and only for itself, whereas a public institution is for everyone.
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On June 22 2011 05:48 Spacely wrote:
To be honest, I have felt like almost doing this before, I just recently had to pay 120 for a doctor to say I had a ailment I was already aware of. Then I had to pay 120 more for medicine that would cost 15 bucks for someone with insurance.
How is this something that is going to get me out of debt and prepare me for life on my own? *I am still living with my family by the way at 22 years old, and still recovering from illness so I cannot work.
This economy is designed to keep you in debt.
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in others countries health care is not free
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On June 22 2011 04:45 Nero. wrote:
i dont get why americans are trying so hard to not get a statutory health insurance system.
In most of Europe we have it for such a long time and nobody here is walking around in chains or lost their freedom because of it
it just feels like the states act very "medieval" about this topic
the political right in the US is pulling the spectrum so far to their side that the most liberal parties in the US are more conservative than most of Europe's conservative parties.
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On June 22 2011 05:50 TheKefka wrote:On June 22 2011 05:36 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Wow,I don't even feel like arguing this because i would have to type and essay on how wrong this is.
what was wrong with it
i can link you the budget numbers
i can link you the stories about europe's increasing problems with sustaining the libyan war
i can link you canada's defense spending
i can explain to you very easily and simply why an industry that provides goods or services that are perceived by people as so valuable and essential that they have positive price elasticity is the kind of industry capitalists would want to get into. hint: you can make money!
Alright, first of all you can't dump 30 Germanys into the US.Germany has 81 million people living in it,the US has 311.For the sake of argument ill say EU is bigger than the US and everyone here has pretty much free healthcare in one form or another. Second,I'm aware of the US budget.What you aren't aware of is how insanely high the cost of your military is compared to the world.1/5 of the 3.5 trillion dollar budget going to the military is insane. You spend more on military than the rest of the world. Third,if your argument is that EU dragged the US into the war with Libya,than that's quite ironic because,the Eu is equally obliged to support the US in every stupid war march that they can think off,which during the cores of the last few decades,US had a lot of them which didn't help your budget either. Your last point is exactly the root of American problem.Capitalism has its fingers in everything,and if you think that's a good thing your deluded.
wow those are some terrible, terrible arguments.
getting out this thread. arguing with socialists is like arguing with children/women.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 22 2011 05:49 dogabutila wrote:
Someone explain to me why I should WANT global healthcare coverage? Realistically speaking, I see no reason why I should WANT to pay for joe smith's medical bills. I have plenty of bills to pay for on my own.
Because if you get into a seriously bad accident/get a terrible ailment, society-at-large will have your back and get you back on your feet, with no immediate or enormous cost/debt expected from you. If you went into a non-socialized healthcare system, didn't pay for enough insurance, and had the same horrific accident/ailment, you're now in massive debt for the rest of your life, and your future prospects are now basically over.
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On June 22 2011 05:53 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:49 dogabutila wrote:
Someone explain to me why I should WANT global healthcare coverage? Realistically speaking, I see no reason why I should WANT to pay for joe smith's medical bills. I have plenty of bills to pay for on my own. Because if you get into a seriously bad accident/get a terrible ailment, society-at-large will have your back and get you back on your feet, with no immediate or enormous cost/debt expected from you. If you went into a non-socialized healthcare system, didn't pay for enough insurance, and had the same horrific accident/ailment, you're now in massive debt for the rest of your life, and your future prospects are now basically over.
I heard I die at the end too, FUCK.
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Something nobody has mentioned: Prison healthcare sucks too. The man accomplished little else than going to jail and bringing some attention to his plight.
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Second,I'm aware of the US budget.What you aren't aware of is how insanely high the cost of your military is compared to the world.1/5 of the 3.5 trillion dollar budget going to the military is insane.
You spend more on military than the rest of the world.
So? it's irrelevant how much we spend compared to the rest of the world, this is what you are missing
first of all you can't dump 30 Germanys into the US.Germany has 81 million people living in it,the US has 311.For the sake of argument ill say EU is bigger than the US and everyone here has pretty much free healthcare in one form or another.
umm you do pay taxes dont you
so i guess it isnt free
for the last time i was talking about geography and population density which have important influence on costs of everything including healthcare
Third,if your argument is that EU dragged the US into the war with Libya,than that's quite ironic because,the Eu is equally obliged to support the US in every stupid war march that they can think off,which during the cores of the last few decades,US had a lot of them which didn't help your budget either.
no they arent
also like to mention that in those wars we pulled our weight, and your opinion of the intelligence of them is what it is. i believe one of those wars in the last few decades was another mess europe was embarrassed by and couldnt clean up itself, called the former yugoslavia?
the issue isnt a deficit caused by the wars it is the ability to pay for them period. we have the ability, europe doesnt. so dont whine about it because you ask us for help too and we GLADLY GIVE IT, not with a bunch of bitchy whining like what comes from across the atlantic
Your last point is exactly the root of American problem.Capitalism has its fingers in everything,and if you think that's a good thing your deluded.
i disagree, and assertions are just assertions, calling me deluded makes it about as true as me saying you sound very happy with my opinions making that true
i would also like to point out that a huge amount of military spending in the US goes towards maintaining our logistical capabilities, without which worldwide humanitarian operations would be hopelessly crippled. millions of people would have died from starvation, illness, and natural disasters over the last 60 years that DIDNT DIE because it was the US military and merchant marine and merchant air that was flying and sailing in the majority of relief supplies.
if you wanna bitch about our military spending i guess a big chunk of all that food and medicine can find its way to africa on its own, huh?
the political right in the US is pulling the spectrum so far to their side that the most liberal parties in the US are more conservative than most of Europe's conservative parties.
i guess you could also say that the political right in the US is convincing the american people that they are correct in their views.
ohwait that just means people are dumb or something.
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Thank god I live in Europe.
That being said, im really not surprised that someone has come this far. I mean if you got shitty health and cant pay for it, what are you gonna rob a bank and god to jail. I'd have done the same thing if it was me,
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2011 05:53 Nightfly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:50 TheKefka wrote:On June 22 2011 05:36 DeepElemBlues wrote:Wow,I don't even feel like arguing this because i would have to type and essay on how wrong this is.
what was wrong with it
i can link you the budget numbers
i can link you the stories about europe's increasing problems with sustaining the libyan war
i can link you canada's defense spending
i can explain to you very easily and simply why an industry that provides goods or services that are perceived by people as so valuable and essential that they have positive price elasticity is the kind of industry capitalists would want to get into. hint: you can make money!
Alright, first of all you can't dump 30 Germanys into the US.Germany has 81 million people living in it,the US has 311.For the sake of argument ill say EU is bigger than the US and everyone here has pretty much free healthcare in one form or another. Second,I'm aware of the US budget.What you aren't aware of is how insanely high the cost of your military is compared to the world.1/5 of the 3.5 trillion dollar budget going to the military is insane. You spend more on military than the rest of the world. Third,if your argument is that EU dragged the US into the war with Libya,than that's quite ironic because,the Eu is equally obliged to support the US in every stupid war march that they can think off,which during the cores of the last few decades,US had a lot of them which didn't help your budget either. Your last point is exactly the root of American problem.Capitalism has its fingers in everything,and if you think that's a good thing your deluded. wow those are some terrible, terrible arguments. getting out this thread. arguing with socialists is like arguing with children/women.
Who would want the slightest chance for socialism to happen when you have something as beautiful as the American dream right?
+ Show Spoiler +
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On June 22 2011 05:53 Nightfly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:50 TheKefka wrote:On June 22 2011 05:36 DeepElemBlues wrote:Wow,I don't even feel like arguing this because i would have to type and essay on how wrong this is.
what was wrong with it
i can link you the budget numbers
i can link you the stories about europe's increasing problems with sustaining the libyan war
i can link you canada's defense spending
i can explain to you very easily and simply why an industry that provides goods or services that are perceived by people as so valuable and essential that they have positive price elasticity is the kind of industry capitalists would want to get into. hint: you can make money!
Alright, first of all you can't dump 30 Germanys into the US.Germany has 81 million people living in it,the US has 311.For the sake of argument ill say EU is bigger than the US and everyone here has pretty much free healthcare in one form or another. Second,I'm aware of the US budget.What you aren't aware of is how insanely high the cost of your military is compared to the world.1/5 of the 3.5 trillion dollar budget going to the military is insane. You spend more on military than the rest of the world. Third,if your argument is that EU dragged the US into the war with Libya,than that's quite ironic because,the Eu is equally obliged to support the US in every stupid war march that they can think off,which during the cores of the last few decades,US had a lot of them which didn't help your budget either. Your last point is exactly the root of American problem.Capitalism has its fingers in everything,and if you think that's a good thing your deluded. wow those are some terrible, terrible arguments. getting out this thread. arguing with socialists is like arguing with children/women.
You showed him. You are clearly the more eloquent debater. Let me know when you get into the Priesthood and we can celebrate over lemonade and Fox News.
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On June 22 2011 05:53 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 05:49 dogabutila wrote:
Someone explain to me why I should WANT global healthcare coverage? Realistically speaking, I see no reason why I should WANT to pay for joe smith's medical bills. I have plenty of bills to pay for on my own. Because if you get into a seriously bad accident/get a terrible ailment, society-at-large will have your back and get you back on your feet, with no immediate or enormous cost/debt expected from you. If you went into a non-socialized healthcare system, didn't pay for enough insurance, and had the same horrific accident/ailment, you're now in massive debt for the rest of your life, and your future prospects are now basically over.
How does one deal with moral hazard? It is not a trivial problem given the disastrous direction that healthcare costs are heading.
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lol, reminds me the movie John Q. with Denzel Washington.
It's not the same situation but kinda the same problem.
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Who would want the slightest chance for socialism to happen when you have something as beautiful as the American dream right?
i try not to be as mean towards other countries as some of their people are to america, but croatia is just a field of roses and puppydogs, right? people are just dying to immigrate there. walking across the desert even.
You showed him. You are clearly the more eloquent debater. Let me know when you get into the Priesthood and we can celebrate over lemonade and Fox News.
well instead of snarking you could read my posts
but they would probably make you angrier honestly you might not want to
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There is no such thing as a fiscally responsible laissez faire business republican.
Our economy is protectionist and closer to fascism than capitalism. The government plays a huge role in making sure big business stays powerful and protects their foreign interests. Read a book. Our military spending doesn't go toward food or medicine in Africa. Most of the US's military spending is defense contracts where they basically build planes, deconstruct planes, and then build better planes, all on the government's tab.
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On June 22 2011 04:51 Bibdy wrote:
Capitalism works great when you've got products/services to sell. Not so great when someone's livelihood is on the line.
Do you mean life? Because it works great when someone's livelihood is on the line...
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john q is still one of my favorites even though it got really low reviews from other sources
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On June 22 2011 05:59 DeepElemBlues wrote:
for the last time i was talking about geography and population density which have important influence on costs of everything including healthcare
[Citation needed], I'd like to see it. I can't imagine it would be that much.
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EPT
