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On June 06 2011 03:21 King[Neikos] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 03:13 AraMoOse wrote:On June 06 2011 03:07 King[Neikos] wrote:
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So... why do people always read what they want to read and never read what is written?
Were in my post do i mention revenge?, i say the boys mother is bad because she wants the girls parents to do something about a situation that she is doing NOTHING about. Well, to be frank, I don't think we can say that the mother is doing NOTHING. We don't know that. What we do know is that she's not pressing charges, which is only one of the multitudes of things she could do. Your post never uses the word revenge, but that's the only reason why you, as the mother, would want to press charges. You're not doing this for prevention purposes, the harm has already been done. Maybe she feels that pressing charges would distract her for caring for her son in a time of psychological distress. Now I would have pressed charges, no question about it. But I don't think it's fair to judge the woman because she didn't. She has a much better understanding of the circumstances than we do and she knows her son far better than we do. So, the girls are committing a crime against your son, and the only reason to present charges against the perpetrators is for revenge? You have a pretty twisted sense of justice right there. And i beg to differ about her knowing her son so much better than us, remember she only realized about the whole stuff AFTER her other son told her, and the sibling only came to know about it after a friend of his told him, a lot of union in the family.
To be fair, I highly doubt many people would tell their parents if this happened to them. Based purely on what I know about people and nothing substantive but I feel strongly that this would be the case.
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Can't the boy himself press charges?
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On June 06 2011 03:21 King[Neikos] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 03:13 AraMoOse wrote:On June 06 2011 03:07 King[Neikos] wrote:
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So... why do people always read what they want to read and never read what is written?
Were in my post do i mention revenge?, i say the boys mother is bad because she wants the girls parents to do something about a situation that she is doing NOTHING about. Well, to be frank, I don't think we can say that the mother is doing NOTHING. We don't know that. What we do know is that she's not pressing charges, which is only one of the multitudes of things she could do. Your post never uses the word revenge, but that's the only reason why you, as the mother, would want to press charges. You're not doing this for prevention purposes, the harm has already been done. Maybe she feels that pressing charges would distract her for caring for her son in a time of psychological distress. Now I would have pressed charges, no question about it. But I don't think it's fair to judge the woman because she didn't. She has a much better understanding of the circumstances than we do and she knows her son far better than we do. So, the girls are committing a crime against your son, and the only reason to present charges against the perpetrators is for revenge? You have a pretty twisted sense of justice right there. And i beg to differ about her knowing her son so much better than us, remember she only realized about the whole stuff AFTER her other son told her, and the sibling only came to know about it after a friend of his told him, a lot of union in the family.
America's justice system is based around 'eye for an eye' and revenge. Ofcourse that would be the reason. What else?
It doesn't help the boy and it doesn't help the girls.
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Man middle school girls have always been a fucked up species.
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On June 06 2011 03:13 AraMoOse wrote:
Well, to be frank, I don't think we can say that the mother is doing NOTHING. We don't know that. What we do know is that she's not pressing charges, which is only one of the multitudes of things she could do.
Actually we do know she is doing nothing. Besides pressing charges there isn't much else she can do. She can try and punish the girls via school, but in the item it is already said that the school will not punish the girls involved. Then since neither of the girls is one of her kids she has done and will do NOTHING.
On June 06 2011 03:13 AraMoOse wrote:
Your post never uses the word revenge, but that's the only reason why you, as the mother, would want to press charges. You're not doing this for prevention purposes, the harm has already been done. Maybe she feels that pressing charges would distract her for caring for her son in a time of psychological distress.
Actually revenge is a component in punishment. Appart from that it is >obviously< not the case that punishment is only for prevention purposes in the narrow case of a particular event. But rather as a preventive measure from this happening again anywhere anytime.
After all with your reasoning people should be able to get away with murder. The victim is already dead so who cares right?
On June 06 2011 03:13 AraMoOse wrote:
Now I would have pressed charges, no question about it. But I don't think it's fair to judge the woman because she didn't. She has a much better understanding of the circumstances than we do and she knows her son far better than we do.
I guess we will have to disagree on that. Me personaly, I would take it as a huge betrayel if my mom decided not to press charges or do anything else for that matter, even downplaying it as a joke that got a little out of hand. I would even go to court to have child custody removed so I could press charges myself.
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Remarkably sensible mother, i'm impressed!
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On June 06 2011 02:23 Haemonculus wrote:
A woman is raped every minute in this country, and you guys flip your shit over this story.
Wow.
I hate when people just throw irrational statements for the sake of sensationalism. Forget the facts, let's just make our own to push the agenda.
Using your own numbers, over 500,000 women would have been raped last year. However, if you just google fbi, and crime statistics, you can seen that rape has been decreasing for the past 20 years. In 2009, they were are their lowest since 1999 at 88,000.
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_01.html#overview
You're not alone though. Even Joe Biden and going around blabbing this non sense. He actually states that in 1 in 4 college women have been raped...which puts the total of women raped in college at around 415,000 ...which surpasses the FBI numbers. Hell, they even contradict NOW(National Organization of Women) which estimates it at around at 218,000.
But forget the facts, let's just throw numbers at people and hope they don't check them!
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On June 06 2011 03:11 Nanoko wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 02:10 esperanto wrote:
This is a cruel story but you absolutly cant compare that to if the gender were opposite.
With males doing this there would be a sexual intention behind it, that gives the thing another dimension.
Besides the feelings and the possible trauma is completely diffrent. A girl in that case is would be defenseless in case the boys would force sex. A total violation of body and soul.
14 year old girls doing this not even wont (in most cases) have the intention to do this, they actually wont physically not be able to force sex of this boy.
Beeing in the situation where someone else with a sexual intention can force sex with you is completely diffrent than a cruel emberrasing prank. Please dont compare that.
I remember when i was younger at one of my first partys (about 13 years old) some girls pulled down the pants of a boy while he was dancing, he was so embarrassed he started crying and went home. Sure what the girls did here is more cruel but still closer to a prank than to a major sex-crime. you're clearly an idiot, Women can FORCE men to have sex with them even if the guy doesn't "Get hard" Don't say something is fucking impossible when it's not. In this particular case could they rape him? yes very likely, "any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person." That is the definition of Rape, because you clearly didn't know, they could've sat on his face and forced him basically to "go down" on them, I'll use slang so your moronic brain can comprehend what I'm saying. They're school kids right? they have writing utensils? pencils, pens?, markers? highlighters? Anal rape with one of those, rubber bands? can restrict blood flow to the penis and FORCE it to become hard..Don't be a fucking idiot please. Also So it's more likely that if a guy at 14 does this to a girl he wants to rape her? What the fuck. Are you under the impression that girls can't get just as horny as guys? what girls won't commit a gang rape like this because why? "it's a prank" it's not a fucking prank, it's a fucking malicious assault committed by a bunch of girls. They COULD ave raped him just like three 14 year old boys COULD have raped an 11 year old girl, are we to believe that 14 year old boys are just fucking RAPISTS waiting for a place to strike? honestly, going by a mix of logic here we can just say "No they just wanted to humiliate and embarrass her" it was "Just a prank". It was not a prank, if the roles were reversed boys would be punished more harshly and unfairly, just because that's true doesn't mean it's ok to say that if it WERE 14 year old boys they're more likely to fucking rape the girl in that case.
Whao... edit your post cause your language clearly deserves a ban. I try not to overreact to your language against me and just state my case.
Please do not view this in black and white only and please see the specific situation. (Sure a woman raping a man is possible in generell)
I am a law student myself and I know the defenitions of rape. Thank you.
The only thing I said was you cant simply compare this to a situation where the roles would be reverse. And thats for a reason. The psychological trauma is a diffrent one. If you look at this specific situations the possibilitys are diffrent, the whole setup in a front yard, all these things)
If I were a judge deciding if this crime had a sexual component just the way a major sex crime has, I would come to a diffrent conclusion. If the roles would be reversed I wouldnt be sure. Cause even if the guys dont have a rape-intention (like these girls clearly didnt, cause they've seen it as a prank), at least from the victims point of view it more likely (again not everytime, not 100% just more likely) has another dimension.
Btw. I never said what these girls did wasnt a malicious assault (dont know the correct english law terms). Please read more carefully next time.
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On June 06 2011 03:32 Capulina wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 02:23 Haemonculus wrote:
A woman is raped every minute in this country, and you guys flip your shit over this story.
Wow. I hate when people just throw irrational statements for the sake of sensationalism. Forget the facts, let's just make our own to push the agenda. Using your own numbers, over 500,000 women would have been raped last year. However, if you just google fbi, and crime statistics, you can seen that rape has been decreasing for the past 20 years. In 2009, they were are their lowest since 1999 at 88,000. http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_01.html#overviewYou're not alone though. Even Joe Biden and going around blabbing this non sense. He actually states that in 1 in 4 college women have been raped...which puts the total of women raped in college at around 415,000 ...which surpasses the FBI numbers. Hell, they even contradict NOW(National Organization of Women) which estimates it at around at 218,000. But forget the facts, let's just throw numbers at people and hope they don't check them!
Thanks for providing actual numbers. It's amazing the amount of people who are white-knighting the girls in this story. It's hilarious.
As for the other posts in the last couple pages, I'm not taking the bait from the America bashers. You'd think on an international forum like TL, that Europeans would try not to paint Americans with a broad brush, but the stereotyping I'm seeing is very disappointing.
*And I can't believe I'm posting instead of watching MLG. Lol.
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Sweden33723 Posts
On June 06 2011 03:20 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 14:46 Sephy69 wrote:
Don't know what's wrong with the mother, but people these days are just too nice. I would have hated my mother and given her shit for a long time if she didn't press charges. You would've hated your mother for that? Wow.. Thank god I'm not in your family, lmao. Personally I wouldn't wanna go to court. I don't understand the vengeance so many seem to feel necessary. I don't think it'll help the boy to sit in court accusing a couple of crying girls for assault. The mother seems pretty sensible though.
If I wanted to press charges, and my mother refused me, I would hate her for life.
However, I wouldnt press charges because I would never ever have wanted the revenge to be done by anyone but myself -_-
@ Haem, I would hope that if the roles in this video were reversed, we d have a twenty page thread calling for the victims heads to roll (infact, Im sure we would have a very one-sided thread in that regard lol).
Yeah, far worse things happen than this video every second of every day (its a big world), and but a scant few of them make the news, I still dont think that makes the reactions here wrong... Also feel free to report posts you feel are overly misogynistic, its a big thread and hard to keep up with.
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I never defended the girls. What they did was absolutely wrong, no one can deny that.
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On June 06 2011 02:56 Techno wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 14:38 Phyre wrote:
I find it pretty ridiculous that the mother of the boy isn't pressing charges and seems to be disregarding this simply as a prank that went a bit too far. Pressing charges could really hurt the girls' lives. Society at large is fine with boys being beat up and shit on because we're supposed to lose our sensitivity anyways. If the genders were reversed, the boys doing it would probably get rape charges. Show nested quote +Some of the people in this thread sicken me even more than the girls in the video. Custody for the child should be removed from the boys mother, i cant believe she just says "i want these girls parents to do something about it What!? You sicken me! You think the boys mother is bad because she's not exacting enough revenge?!
Yeah no kidding.
I find the amount of moaning about the mom kind of ridiculous. I think she made the right call. Not everything is about obtaining revenge. She is showing the ideals to her kids and the three girls that sometimes it isn't best to continue cycles of violence.
Not to mention, I guarantee her parents are going to actually punish them. ESPECIALLY since the mom isn't pressing charges. TL, I ask you, how would you punish your daughter if they were invovled in this?
I'd be shocked if the answer wasn't something rather serious. Personally I think the parents can be more intimidating than the courts, and has less potential to end someones lives for something they did when they were 14. I dunno about you, but I did all kinds of stupid shit when I was fourteen that if I did now I would probably be unable to find employment, but that isn't unusual. Children do stupid things.
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On June 06 2011 03:25 Phenny wrote:
To be fair, I highly doubt many people would tell their parents if this happened to them. Based purely on what I know about people and nothing substantive but I feel strongly that this would be the case.
Thats my point, you cant say you know you son/daughter better than anyone else when they dont even trust you for delicate or sensitive matters. And that is the case as you just said with most people, parents are the ones that often know less about their own children.
On June 06 2011 03:26 Euronyme wrote:
America's justice system is based around 'eye for an eye' and revenge. Ofcourse that would be the reason. What else?
It doesn't help the boy and it doesn't help the girls.
How it doesnt help the boy? help me here i fail to see the logic in that, offenders are walking away without consequences after committing a crime, which tells them and any other person in the country that they are free to do that as many times as they want without having to worry about anything. To me it helps the boy showing him that the system and society in which he lives in punishes this kind of acts being done to other people, and it helps the girls shown them that they cant just do whatever the hell they want with other people.
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On June 06 2011 03:33 esperanto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 03:11 Nanoko wrote:On June 06 2011 02:10 esperanto wrote:
This is a cruel story but you absolutly cant compare that to if the gender were opposite.
With males doing this there would be a sexual intention behind it, that gives the thing another dimension.
Besides the feelings and the possible trauma is completely diffrent. A girl in that case is would be defenseless in case the boys would force sex. A total violation of body and soul.
14 year old girls doing this not even wont (in most cases) have the intention to do this, they actually wont physically not be able to force sex of this boy.
Beeing in the situation where someone else with a sexual intention can force sex with you is completely diffrent than a cruel emberrasing prank. Please dont compare that.
I remember when i was younger at one of my first partys (about 13 years old) some girls pulled down the pants of a boy while he was dancing, he was so embarrassed he started crying and went home. Sure what the girls did here is more cruel but still closer to a prank than to a major sex-crime. you're clearly an idiot, Women can FORCE men to have sex with them even if the guy doesn't "Get hard" Don't say something is fucking impossible when it's not. In this particular case could they rape him? yes very likely, "any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person." That is the definition of Rape, because you clearly didn't know, they could've sat on his face and forced him basically to "go down" on them, I'll use slang so your moronic brain can comprehend what I'm saying. They're school kids right? they have writing utensils? pencils, pens?, markers? highlighters? Anal rape with one of those, rubber bands? can restrict blood flow to the penis and FORCE it to become hard..Don't be a fucking idiot please. Also So it's more likely that if a guy at 14 does this to a girl he wants to rape her? What the fuck. Are you under the impression that girls can't get just as horny as guys? what girls won't commit a gang rape like this because why? "it's a prank" it's not a fucking prank, it's a fucking malicious assault committed by a bunch of girls. They COULD ave raped him just like three 14 year old boys COULD have raped an 11 year old girl, are we to believe that 14 year old boys are just fucking RAPISTS waiting for a place to strike? honestly, going by a mix of logic here we can just say "No they just wanted to humiliate and embarrass her" it was "Just a prank". It was not a prank, if the roles were reversed boys would be punished more harshly and unfairly, just because that's true doesn't mean it's ok to say that if it WERE 14 year old boys they're more likely to fucking rape the girl in that case. Whao... edit your post cause your language clearly deserves a ban. I try not to overreact to your language against me and just state my case. Please do not view this in black and white only and please see the specific situation. (Sure a woman raping a man is possible in generell) I am a law student myself and I know the defenitions of rape. Thank you. The only thing I said was you cant simply compare this to a situation where the roles would be reverse. And thats for a reason. The psychological trauma is a diffrent one. If you look at this specific situations the possibilitys are diffrent, the whole setup in a front yard, all these things) If I were a judge deciding if this crime had a sexual component just the way a major sex crime has, I would come to a diffrent conclusion. If the roles would be reversed I wouldnt be sure. Cause even if the guys dont have a rape-intention (like these girls clearly didnt, cause they've seen it as a prank), at least from the victims point of view it more likely (again not everytime, not 100% just more likely) has another dimension.
Can you cite some sources that suggest that if boys do this, it's clearly sexually motivated and if girls do it, it's likely not? Can you cite some sources on how the trauma would be different?
From where I'm sitting, an 11 year old getting physically assaulted and stripped by 14 year olds is the same regardless of gender, and I see no reason why the trauma would be different because of gender.
So, if I'm a guy and I think I'm less likely to think I'm going to get raped in this situation and that makes it worse because a girl is more likely to think she's going to get raped? I'm at a complete loss here... I don't understand this reasoning at all.
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Pressing charges could really hurt the girls' lives.
As opposed to what the girls did, which DID hurt the boys' life?
The girls don't need to go to jail, but clearly just "discipline" by their parents is not enough. A misdemeanor, while perhaps too light (as some mentioned) would serve as a vivid reminder to the girls throughout their lives, as well as a message to bullies of this (and any) type around the nation.
i really don't get why all of you guys WANT to make it harder for the girls to put this behind them and grow up like healthy citizens
These girls are clearly NOT healthy citizens. Would you advocate that rapists or murderers or robbers put their crimes behind them, and get off scot-free?
Why would those girls WANT to make it harder for the boy to put this behind him and to grow up like a healthy citizen?
And at the people who say the reverse possibility (men de-clothing a girl in public) is not analogous to the current situation, on the grounds that men would ONLY do it of a sexual nature.
You are WRONG. It is discriminatory (for lack of a better word, sexism is too strong) to say that ALL MEN would ONLY do this of a SEXUAL nature. There is no reason to believe that even if there were no indications of what would be a sexual assault (erections, close contact, wording, positioning, emotion) that the men did it of a clear sexual nature. That is sexism (not Reverse-sexism, as some foolish people call it).
Additionally, while there is no proof of it (from what we can tell from the story and video) there IS NO REASON that the girls could have NOT done it because of a SEXUAL NATURE. While it is true that signs of women being "horny" is less obvious and harder to detect (partly because of societal views) than is men, it IS POSSIBLE that the women WERE DE-CLOTHING that boy BECAUSE OF A SEXUAL NATURE. To say that they definitively did NOT do so because of sexual nature is ALSO DISCRIMINATORY.
This sort of news makes me sick, and convinces me that sexism is alive and well in modern day society in the forms of both chivalry and this exact case.
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On June 06 2011 03:37 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 02:56 Techno wrote:On June 05 2011 14:38 Phyre wrote:
I find it pretty ridiculous that the mother of the boy isn't pressing charges and seems to be disregarding this simply as a prank that went a bit too far. Pressing charges could really hurt the girls' lives. Society at large is fine with boys being beat up and shit on because we're supposed to lose our sensitivity anyways. If the genders were reversed, the boys doing it would probably get rape charges. Some of the people in this thread sicken me even more than the girls in the video. Custody for the child should be removed from the boys mother, i cant believe she just says "i want these girls parents to do something about it What!? You sicken me! You think the boys mother is bad because she's not exacting enough revenge?! Yeah no kidding. I find the amount of moaning about the mom kind of ridiculous. I think she made the right call. Not everything is about obtaining revenge. She is showing the ideals to her kids and the three girls that sometimes it isn't best to continue cycles of violence. Not to mention, I guarantee her parents are going to actually punish them. ESPECIALLY since the mom isn't pressing charges. TL, I ask you, how would you punish your daughter if they were invovled in this? I'd be shocked if the answer wasn't something rather serious. Personally I think the parents can be more intimidating than the courts, and has less potential to end someones lives for something they did when they were 14. I dunno about you, but I did all kinds of stupid shit when I was fourteen that if I did now I would probably be unable to find employment, but that isn't unusual. Children do stupid things.
Yeh but like someone else said, to have kids that would do this kind of things means there is a strong probability (at best) that the parents are fucked up too, so they would let them off easy probably.
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On June 06 2011 03:37 iCanada wrote:
Not to mention, I guarantee her parents are going to actually punish them. ESPECIALLY since the mom isn't pressing charges. TL, I ask you, how would you punish your daughter if they were invovled in this?
If it was my daughter I'd turn her in to the police. By the time she is 14 she should know enough to understand that an action such as this is not ok. Hence she should take responsibility.
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On June 06 2011 03:37 King[Neikos] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 03:25 Phenny wrote:
To be fair, I highly doubt many people would tell their parents if this happened to them. Based purely on what I know about people and nothing substantive but I feel strongly that this would be the case. Thats my point, you cant say you know you son/daughter better than anyone else when they dont even trust you for delicate or sensitive matters. And that is the case as you just said with most people, parents are the ones that often know less about their own children. Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 03:26 Euronyme wrote:
America's justice system is based around 'eye for an eye' and revenge. Ofcourse that would be the reason. What else?
It doesn't help the boy and it doesn't help the girls. How it doesnt help the boy? help me here i fail to see the logic in that, offenders are walking away without consequences after committing a crime, which tells them and any other person in the country that they are free to do that as many times as they want without having to worry about anything. To me it helps the boy showing him that the system and society in which he lives in punishes this kind of acts being done to other people, and it helps the girls shown them that they cant just do whatever the hell they want with other people.
LOL. You're talking as if this was a murder by some hardcore batshit child abuser.
It was a couple of young girls force undressing a young boy.
You really want that to go through the justice system? "offenders walking away without consequences after commiting a crime".. Wow seriously? They're kids for christ sakes.
Justice to me is not about punishment, it's about helping people.
I don't think this is a serious enough crime (honestly, is it even a crime?) to warrant being called a criminal.
Might as well sue the toddler who finger painted on your walls for disturbing of peace, and destroying private property.
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Not pressing charges is a mistake imo.
You need to show that this is NOT ok. Its so bad when boys do this, so why isn't it bad when girls do it? Fuck double standards.
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EPT
