EPT72 hours to end World's most senseless War! - Page 18
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
On June 03 2011 05:28 ampson wrote: You're as closed minded as the people who you say shouldn't be able to vote and sterilized. Some people choose not to do drugs because they are illegal, can you blame them for being law abiding citizens? There is nothing wrong with either your opinion or the opinion of the "moron" you quote. Except the moron probably won't ask for you to be sterilized. He's not close minded. The "morons" don't even have their own opinion because they don't have the facts straight. They're just zombies spouting other peoples opinions as facts. Law abiding citizens is touted as being a good thing with positive connotations, but we all know from all the racist laws that we've had in the past and the unjust anti-drug laws of today that in those situations law abiding citizens should be synonymous with "idiot", not with "good". This is one of those situations. And its not as if he was serious about sterilization, but that's how pissed off people get about injustice. | ||
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Flycycle
United States102 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:54 Barrin wrote: My brother showed me this video a few days ago It's sort of a documentary/interview with Jack Herer, the "Emperor of Hemp" and author of "The Emperor Wears No Clothes". It's really good, I recommend for anyone who can think for themselves to watch it. It's kinda funny because when he was younger he was in the armed forces and thought that all of those hippies were the most un-american people he's ever seen. He thought marijuana was a big waste of time and all that jazz... then one day he actually smoked it. This came to that and he learned more about it and how awesome of a plant it can be (not just for recreational use) and eventually one day he decided to spend most of his time doing whatever he could to legalize the Hemp plant. Anyways my main point for showing this is that I learned something very interesting while watching it. For the past ~10,000 years, every civilization in every part of the world used the hemp plant as a staple crop. It wouldn't do this plant justice if I was to only list some of the things that this plant is capable of, but the previous bolded red sentence above should speak for itself. It frustrates me to no end that a plant with so many GREAT FUCKING uses could possibly be made illegal. The documentary above talks about how it can do things like solve world hunger (hemp seed oil), stop massive deforestation of trees (extremely efficient way to make paper... guess where the first paper came from?), and even be a massive economic boon (this one is pretty complicated); you're damn right it doesn't stop there. If you want to do more research on it then I suggest watching the documentary above to begin with. + Show Spoiler + Here's another interesting video: Thanks for posting that video, really good watch. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:54 Barrin wrote: Can't tell if trolling or not :S You do know there are other plants you can use to eat, there other plants you can use to cut wood. And there are millions of unhealthy things we used to do 10,000 years ago which we don't do anymore, because after 10,000 years of technology progress we finally found they were unhealthy. Right?For the past ~10,000 years, every civilization in every part of the world used the hemp plant as a staple crop. It wouldn't do this plant justice if I was to only list some of the things that this plant is capable of, but the previous bolded red sentence above should speak for itself. It frustrates me to no end that a plant with so many GREAT FUCKING uses could possibly be made illegal. The documentary above talks about how it can do things like solve world hunger (hemp seed oil), stop massive deforestation of trees (extremely efficient way to make paper... guess where the first paper came from?), and even be a massive economic boon (this one is pretty complicated); you're damn right it doesn't stop there. If you want to do more research on it then I suggest watching the documentary above to begin with. Here's my own personal solution to world hunger, infrastructure and poverty: potatoes :D I'm such a genius I should write that in bolded red or something ;P | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
Nub question incoming... Is this petition and discussion to legalize ALL drugs, or just marijuana? | ||
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ryanAnger
United States838 Posts
On June 03 2011 12:55 VIB wrote: Can't tell if trolling or not :S You do know there are other plants you can use to eat, there other plants you can use to cut wood. And there are millions of unhealthy things we used to do 10,000 years ago which we don't do anymore, because after 10,000 years of technology progress we finally found they were unhealthy. Right? Here's my own personal solution to world hunger, infrastructure and poverty: potatoes :D I'm such a genius I should write that in bolded red or something ;P Potatoes can't grow in virtually ALL soil conditions on Earth. Potatoes don't grow faster than every other crop in the world. Potatoes aren't completely self-sustaining. Potatoes can't be used to make almost all household items a person uses these days. Also, Hemp isn't unhealthy. I'd point you to the millions of pages of research on this, but I figure if you aren't willing to look for yourself then you are either too stupid to understand, or too ignorant to want to know anyway. I can't wait until the people like you are in the minority, though it will probably never happen. | ||
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HULKAMANIA
United States1219 Posts
On June 03 2011 13:13 ryanAnger wrote: Potatoes can't grow in virtually ALL soil conditions on Earth. Potatoes don't grow faster than every other crop in the world. Potatoes aren't completely self-sustaining. Potatoes can't be used to make almost all household items a person uses these days. Also, Hemp isn't unhealthy. I'd point you to the millions of pages of research on this, but I figure if you aren't willing to look for yourself then you are either too stupid to understand, or too ignorant to want to know anyway. I can't wait until the people like you are in the minority, though it will probably never happen. ryanAnger indeed. Did VIB kick your dog or something? | ||
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ryanAnger
United States838 Posts
On June 03 2011 13:29 HULKAMANIA wrote: ryanAnger indeed. Did VIB kick your dog or something? No, but he has proved time and time again within this thread that he is unwilling to do any sort of research on the subject, or come up with any remotely intelligent argument in favor of his beliefs. Suggesting that potatoes and hemp are similar in the way he did is both stupid, and ignorant, and he would be less stupid and less ignorant if he actually did the research. | ||
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saxonhamish
Australia18 Posts
Meanwhile, *countries with less-harsh enforcement -- like Switzerland, Portugal, the Netherlands, and Australia -- have not seen the explosion in drug use* that proponents of the drug war have darkly predicted. Instead, they have seen significant reductions in drug-related crime, addiction and deaths, and are able to focus squarely on dismantling criminal empires. Less drug use in these areas because of less poverty/better living standards. US has so much poverty, such a massive lower class (disprapportionately made of blacks) who cause a large amount of drug related crime. Legal weed would have a massive take up rate with blacks in America compared to the relatively wealthy Dutch. And not all drugs are the same. Sorry but you got your head up your ass if you think legal heroin/pcp/crack/ice is a good thing. Fix your poverty and you'll fix your drug problems. Legalising drugs will not reduce drug use, but will shift the wealth from from criminal organisations to governments and corporations. The criminal organisations are not a problem. Drug cartels generally don't cause problems for people not involved in drugs. It is not in their interest to harm normal civilians. Stay out of their business and they keep away. The real problem is the drug users because: A. They can be violent and cause increased crimes. Alcohol makes people violent too, but at a lower rate (most adults drink alcohol but not many commit alcohol related crimes, not many adults do drugs but a lot of those who do commit crimes). B. They are less productive members of society. Imagine if everyone on earth smoked weed. Nothing would ever get done. We want less of these people, not more. The best solution would be to legalise one drug which isnt addictive, produces a high and euphoric bot no psychosis effect, has no negative physical or mental side effects, and doesn't stop the user from being a productive member of society. Preferably something that increases the users energy, so they can actually become more productive. Something like speed or exctacy. And ration it at a dose of 1 per week. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On June 03 2011 13:40 ryanAnger wrote: 1) I posted the findings of my years of deep, scientific, and completely not trollage research results on page 3:No, but he has proved time and time again within this thread that he is unwilling to do any sort of research on the subject, or come up with any remotely intelligent argument in favor of his beliefs. Suggesting that potatoes and hemp are similar in the way he did is both stupid, and ignorant, and he would be less stupid and less ignorant if he actually did the research. + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2011 03:11 travis wrote: But 99% of those millions are just saying a combination of one of these:MAYBE YOU COULD READ ANY OF THE MILLION POSTS/WEBPAGES EXPLAINING IT THEN - it's natural so it can't possibly be bad - three wrongs make one right. Aka tobacco and alcohol are also bad. - points to country that didn't legalize but claim they did anyway: portugal, netherlands, switzerlands are popular targets - points out violence of drug cartels, but forgets about violence of drug junkies - talks of conspiracy theories of prisons who wants to profit of arresting junkies, but ignores lobbies of billionaire drug lords There's only 1% of those webpages who actually talk about reasonable arguments like the economic question someone brought up a few posts ago. So it's hard to weed down those millions of pro legalization sites into something useful. But even those who do make reasonable economic analysis, I still feel they're dismissing the other side of the argument and ignoring the potential economic risks that legalization could bring. + Show Spoiler + - it's not unhealthy because my scientific paper is less biased then yours (this is the one you're using) - humans are very smart and can decide what's good for themselves without anyone telling them what to do (yea, humans = smart is kinda lol, but that's actually a very common argument in this thread) 2) I can find just as many scientific papers saying hemp or whatever other light drug is bad as you can find the opposite. But I'm 99% sure you'll just say the ones I find are "biased conspiracy trying to keep drugs illegal". 3) I <3 you and would never kick your dog 4) I do think there are some good pro-legalization arguments to be made, but 99% of the people use the bad ones instead | ||
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DatBoiRijad
100 Posts
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On June 03 2011 14:14 saxonhamish wrote: I don't believe there's anything wrong with current policy really. If you want to do drugs you can. You will become a less productive member of society and because of that, you rightly take the risk of being punished by the authorities for your drug taking. It's a good status quo. Less drug use in these areas because of less poverty/better living standards. US has so much poverty, such a massive lower class (disprapportionately made of blacks) who cause a large amount of drug related crime. Legal weed would have a massive take up rate with blacks in America compared to the relatively wealthy Dutch. And not all drugs are the same. Sorry but you got your head up your ass if you think legal heroin/pcp/crack/ice is a good thing. Fix your poverty and you'll fix your drug problems. Legalising drugs will not reduce drug use, but will shift the wealth from from criminal organisations to governments and corporations. The criminal organisations are not a problem. Drug cartels generally don't cause problems for people not involved in drugs. It is not in their interest to harm normal civilians. Stay out of their business and they keep away. The real problem is the drug users because: A. They can be violent and cause increased crimes. Alcohol makes people violent too, but at a lower rate (most adults drink alcohol but not many commit alcohol related crimes, not many adults do drugs but a lot of those who do commit crimes). B. They are less productive members of society. Imagine if everyone on earth smoked weed. Nothing would ever get done. We want less of these people, not more. The best solution would be to legalise one drug which isnt addictive, produces a high and euphoric bot no psychosis effect, has no negative physical or mental side effects, and doesn't stop the user from being a productive member of society. Preferably something that increases the users energy, so they can actually become more productive. Something like speed or exctacy. And ration it at a dose of 1 per week. Oh hey some nice lies in this post, you're a pretty elaborate troll! Just kidding. "They are less productive members of society. Imagine if everyone on earth smoked weed. Nothing would ever get done. We want less of these people, not more." Had me laughing for a good minute! Silly lying propaganda. | ||
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tso
United States132 Posts
On June 03 2011 14:14 saxonhamish wrote: The best solution would be to legalise one drug which isnt addictive, produces a high and euphoric bot no psychosis effect, has no negative physical or mental side effects, and doesn't stop the user from being a productive member of society. Preferably something that increases the users energy, so they can actually become more productive. Something like speed or exctacy. And ration it at a dose of 1 per week. I believe you're thinking of soma | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
It's actually really annoying to read. | ||
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Naugrim
Sweden57 Posts
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
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ryanAnger
United States838 Posts
On June 03 2011 14:17 VIB wrote: 1) I posted the findings of my years of deep, scientific, and completely not trollage research results on page 3: + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2011 03:11 travis wrote: But 99% of those millions are just saying a combination of one of these:MAYBE YOU COULD READ ANY OF THE MILLION POSTS/WEBPAGES EXPLAINING IT THEN - it's natural so it can't possibly be bad - three wrongs make one right. Aka tobacco and alcohol are also bad. - points to country that didn't legalize but claim they did anyway: portugal, netherlands, switzerlands are popular targets - points out violence of drug cartels, but forgets about violence of drug junkies - talks of conspiracy theories of prisons who wants to profit of arresting junkies, but ignores lobbies of billionaire drug lords There's only 1% of those webpages who actually talk about reasonable arguments like the economic question someone brought up a few posts ago. So it's hard to weed down those millions of pro legalization sites into something useful. But even those who do make reasonable economic analysis, I still feel they're dismissing the other side of the argument and ignoring the potential economic risks that legalization could bring. + Show Spoiler + - it's not unhealthy because my scientific paper is less biased then yours (this is the one you're using) - humans are very smart and can decide what's good for themselves without anyone telling them what to do (yea, humans = smart is kinda lol, but that's actually a very common argument in this thread) 2) I can find just as many scientific papers saying hemp or whatever other light drug is bad as you can find the opposite. But I'm 99% sure you'll just say the ones I find are "biased conspiracy trying to keep drugs illegal". 3) I <3 you and would never kick your dog 4) I do think there are some good pro-legalization arguments to be made, but 99% of the people use the bad ones instead Perhaps you should reread my post. I was not talking about Marijuana, or any other drug, for that matter. I was talking about Hemp, which can be produced with virtually no THC, CBD, or CBN. The poster you initially replied to was also talking about Hemp, specifically, and not necessarily Marijuana. The statement you made about potatoes allowed my logical mind to infer that you were also talking about Hemp. In regards to your counter-arguments about the topic I wasn't even part of for my previous post: - I agree, the "it's natural" argument is stupid, because there are a lot of things that are natural that are bad for your health. That said, there has not been a SINGLE study (please disprove me with credible sources) suggesting that responsible ingestion of Marijuana (and the active ingredients involved) has ever directly resulted in an individual's bodily harm. - Three wrongs don't make one right. Perhaps this is true, but history has also shown (repeatedly, I might add, and even recently) that prohibition of any substance causes more harm than it does good. - In regards to Portugal (and similar countries, but I'll use Portugal as my prime example): No, they didn't legalize, but they did decriminalize it, making possession and consumption of any drug a petty crime, punishable by fines, etc. (no jail time.) Dealers and Producers are still subject to greater punishments. Decriminalization was implemented in 2001, and since that time the number of deaths from HIV, and new cases of HIV has plummeted. ( http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization and http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080 ) A really good report if you are so inclined to enlighten yourself is found here: http://kar.kent.ac.uk/13325/1/BFDPP_BP_14_EffectsOfDecriminalisation_EN.pdf.pdf From the report: + Show Spoiler + The statistical indicators suggest that since the decriminalization in July 2001, the following developments have occurred: • Increased use of cannabis. • Decreased use of heroin. • Increased uptake of treatment. • Reduction in drug related deaths. - In regards to drug cartel and junkie violence: It is very difficult to accurately gather statistics about the former, so I can't pretend to know which of the two is more prevalent. Despite this, however, I firmly believe that junkie violence is the lesser of two evils, and if we have the means necessary to eliminate the greater evil, then it is our duty as good people to do so. - In regards to conspiracy theories: I understand your hesitation, and believe me, sometimes I see them and laugh, as well. However, there are some "theories" that are fact. In the event that Marijuana (and Hemp) were legalized, many of the nations leading industries would be hurt significantly after a certain amount of time, primarily, the tobacco, alcohol, paper and plastic industries. It is also factual that many of our leading politicians receive "donations" from certain leading industry members. Logic implies that certain "political" agendas have corporate and industrial reasons. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On June 03 2011 15:32 travis wrote: Because it's irrelevant. Poverty and malnutrition are consequence of political and economic corruption. We can produce enough food to feed the world without hemp. There just isn't enough short term economic interest in feeding the planet. Adding one more almost complete legume to the already vast pool of almost complete legumes that already exist, doesn't help much. You solve world hunger by reducing corruption and industrializing remote areas. Not by adding hemp to the list of edible vegetables.Well I agree with ryananger... hemp seed is one of the healthiest and most complete food sources on earth. For some reason VIB just ignores what ryan is saying. There are hundreds of ngos trying to reduce poverty and hunger with much better plans than "distribute hemp to everyone". But none of those achieve much because of the same barrier: lack of political and economic interest. edit: ryan just saw your post, but I'm tired. gonna sleep now, I'll read it tomorrow, gnight ^^ | ||
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Meta
United States6228 Posts
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ryanAnger
United States838 Posts
On June 03 2011 16:10 VIB wrote: Because it's irrelevant. Poverty and malnutrition are consequence of political and economic corruption. We can produce enough food to feed the world without hemp. There just isn't enough short term economic interest in feeding the planet. Adding one more almost complete legume to the already vast pool of almost complete legumes that already exist, doesn't help much. You solve world hunger by reducing corruption and industrializing remote areas. Not by adding hemp to the list of edible vegetables. There are hundreds of ngos trying to reduce poverty and hunger with much better plans than "distribute hemp to everyone". But none of those achieve much because of the same barrier: lack of political and economic interest. edit: ryan just saw your post, but I'm tired. gonna sleep now, I'll read it tomorrow, gnight ^^ I agree, in part, but I think we might see differently here, because I speak of the United States in particular. I think this political and economic interest is the part of the problem that we need to fix. You say it yourself, it is corrupt. The current stance on Hemp (and Marijuana) is a result of that corruption. It is our duty as "we the people" to weed out (pun intended) the corruption, for Marijuana users, Hemp farmers, and everyone else who might be affected by it. I will also conclude by saying this: I don't care so much about the Hemp or the Marijuana as I do about the ideals surrounding their illegality. Legal or no, I will use Marijuana and will most likely never be punished severely for it, so it makes no difference to me. What bothers me most is the fact that they are banned for no good reason other than the above political and economical corruption. If there were perfectly valid reasons for their criminalization, I would keep my mouth shut, and continue, quietly and harmlessly, my criminal behaviors. | ||
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