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This is sickening beyond belief. The fact that ANYONE would allow this is happen to their children makes me angry just thinking about it. Calling this a religious program would be like calling David Koresh a good christian. The fact that religions are perverted into things like this is one of the saddest things imaginable.
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This was one of the most upsetting things I've read in a while. 
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On May 28 2011 15:03 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 05:46 TreeDome wrote:Don't agree with anything that happened, and it is a terrible way to treat your children. But just pointing out that this isn't correct. ' The rule book and protocol also appeared to be directly based off of the Mormon religion (no caffeine etc.)' Even though most people think LDS can't drink caffeine, it isn't the case. While the LDS do have stricter rules with stuff like coffee and tea, the Word of Wisdom doesn't mention caffeine. Maybe you are right, but my parents are devout Mormons and seem to think that it covers caffeine. What it really says is "strong drink", which can be interpreted however the leaders want to interpret it. I'm guessing that one of them said it included caffeine at one point.
The idea behind the word of wisdom is that it is designed for both the weakest and the strongest. It isn't banned explicitly but it can be interpreted to include that by virtue of "hot drinks" meaning tea and coffee which both have caffeine in it. Strong drink is included with wine, saying alcohol.
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I really hope this is mostly sensationalized.
If it's true, I'm not a violent person by any stretch of the imagination, but I would just love a chance to smack the shit out of her mother. That is straight up child abuse.
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A friend of mine went to a facility like this. She's still horribly horribly scarred. It's horrific, and makes me so angry at people.
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Well, that is honestly very sad. I wouldn't let myself be kidnapped without a pretty extreme fight though, I have a knife in my room somewhere.... But anyways, these kinds of camps ARE NOT legal and only exist because the terrible shit that they do is swept under the rug by the staff and the idiot parents who send their kids there. Anybody who has sent their kid to this terrible place for "behavioral modification" wouldn't admit their mistake or usually let their kids talk about it, and that is how they still exist. But now the place is being slapped with a shitton of lawsuits, so it won't exist for long.
On May 28 2011 05:50 DisneylandSC wrote:
Religion at its finest. Absolutely disgusting.
The blame does not lie with religion, the blame lies with people who can not stand the idea of homosexuality and then use religion to justify their bigotry. I honestly doubt these people adhere at all to the book of mormon, or the 10 commandments for that matter. And I am sure that true Mormons, whose #1 value is FAMILY, would never let this happen to their children.
On May 28 2011 05:23 SiPa wrote:America fuck yeah! Thank god this isnt happening in Germany nor Swizerland 
Messed up shit happens all over the world man, Germany and Switzerland aren't paradises of tolerance. The best any country's government can do is get rid of these things as they come, and the US is doing that.
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On May 29 2011 13:42 ampson wrote:Well, that is honestly very sad. I wouldn't let myself be kidnapped without a pretty extreme fight though, I have a knife in my room somewhere.... But anyways, these kinds of camps ARE NOT legal and only exist because the terrible shit that they do is swept under the rug by the staff and the idiot parents who send their kids there. Anybody who has sent their kid to this terrible place for "behavioral modification" wouldn't admit their mistake or usually let their kids talk about it, and that is how they still exist. But now the place is being slapped with a shitton of lawsuits, so it won't exist for long. Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 05:50 DisneylandSC wrote:
Religion at its finest. Absolutely disgusting. The blame does not lie with religion, the blame lies with people who can not stand the idea of homosexuality and then use religion to justify their bigotry. I honestly doubt these people adhere at all to the book of mormon, or the 10 commandments for that matter. And I am sure that true Mormons, whose #1 value is FAMILY, would never let this happen to their children. Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 05:23 SiPa wrote:America fuck yeah! Thank god this isnt happening in Germany nor Swizerland Messed up shit happens all over the world man, Germany and Switzerland aren't paradises of tolerance. The best any country's government can do is get rid of these things as they come, and the US is doing that.
That you can even say that this is not the fault of religion is beyond me. These people are not even considered "nutjobs", these are just strictly religious people that believe their doctrine so badly that they are willing to put their children through hell if that hell offers them a way to not be gay. The sheer amount of kids that end up in these camps should tell you as much, they all have parents that think this is the way to go to cure "the gay". Are they all extreme nutjobs or are they just gullible people that believe in a religion that tells them not to like it?
Mormons accept gay people now? No.
Christianity thinks homosexuality is moral now? No.
When these tidbits of hate change, only then will religion not be the problem.
The fact is that the big underlying issue here is Religion. You can slice it all you want and blame the individual, but they are just sheep in a big mess of religious culture.
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On May 29 2011 14:08 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:03 Bunnypanda wrote:On May 29 2011 13:42 ampson wrote:Well, that is honestly very sad. I wouldn't let myself be kidnapped without a pretty extreme fight though, I have a knife in my room somewhere.... But anyways, these kinds of camps ARE NOT legal and only exist because the terrible shit that they do is swept under the rug by the staff and the idiot parents who send their kids there. Anybody who has sent their kid to this terrible place for "behavioral modification" wouldn't admit their mistake or usually let their kids talk about it, and that is how they still exist. But now the place is being slapped with a shitton of lawsuits, so it won't exist for long. On May 28 2011 05:50 DisneylandSC wrote:
Religion at its finest. Absolutely disgusting. The blame does not lie with religion, the blame lies with people who can not stand the idea of homosexuality and then use religion to justify their bigotry. I honestly doubt these people adhere at all to the book of mormon, or the 10 commandments for that matter. And I am sure that true Mormons, whose #1 value is FAMILY, would never let this happen to their children. On May 28 2011 05:23 SiPa wrote:America fuck yeah! Thank god this isnt happening in Germany nor Swizerland Messed up shit happens all over the world man, Germany and Switzerland aren't paradises of tolerance. The best any country's government can do is get rid of these things as they come, and the US is doing that. That you can even say that this is not the fault of religion is beyond me. These people are not even considered "nutjobs", these are just strictly religious people that believe their doctrine so badly that they are willing to put their children through hell if that hell offers them a way to not be gay. The sheer amount of kids that end up in these camps should tell you as much, they all have parents that think this is the way to go to cure "the gay". Are they all extreme nutjobs or are they just gullible people that believe in a religion that tells them not to like it? Mormons accept gay people now? No. Christianity thinks homosexuality is moral now? No. When these tidbits of hate change, only then will religion not be the problem. The fact is that the big underlying issue here is Religion. You can slice it all you want and blame the individual, but they are just sheep in a big mess of religious culture. Mormons actually accept just about everyone into their religion (they draw the line at mass murderers, around there at least). In the case of gays, they still expect them to seek "help" or accept "help" (usually in the form of counseling) to in order "improve" their "situation". I believe they will really only excommunicate you if you are very obvious about it and don't try to change it for a very long time.
Yes that's a lot better...still shows they are blatantly bigoted and completely ignorant of what homosexuality actually is, by suggesting it's even possible to "change" it.
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On May 29 2011 14:10 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:08 Barrin wrote:On May 29 2011 14:03 Bunnypanda wrote:On May 29 2011 13:42 ampson wrote:Well, that is honestly very sad. I wouldn't let myself be kidnapped without a pretty extreme fight though, I have a knife in my room somewhere.... But anyways, these kinds of camps ARE NOT legal and only exist because the terrible shit that they do is swept under the rug by the staff and the idiot parents who send their kids there. Anybody who has sent their kid to this terrible place for "behavioral modification" wouldn't admit their mistake or usually let their kids talk about it, and that is how they still exist. But now the place is being slapped with a shitton of lawsuits, so it won't exist for long. On May 28 2011 05:50 DisneylandSC wrote:
Religion at its finest. Absolutely disgusting. The blame does not lie with religion, the blame lies with people who can not stand the idea of homosexuality and then use religion to justify their bigotry. I honestly doubt these people adhere at all to the book of mormon, or the 10 commandments for that matter. And I am sure that true Mormons, whose #1 value is FAMILY, would never let this happen to their children. On May 28 2011 05:23 SiPa wrote:America fuck yeah! Thank god this isnt happening in Germany nor Swizerland Messed up shit happens all over the world man, Germany and Switzerland aren't paradises of tolerance. The best any country's government can do is get rid of these things as they come, and the US is doing that. That you can even say that this is not the fault of religion is beyond me. These people are not even considered "nutjobs", these are just strictly religious people that believe their doctrine so badly that they are willing to put their children through hell if that hell offers them a way to not be gay. The sheer amount of kids that end up in these camps should tell you as much, they all have parents that think this is the way to go to cure "the gay". Are they all extreme nutjobs or are they just gullible people that believe in a religion that tells them not to like it? Mormons accept gay people now? No. Christianity thinks homosexuality is moral now? No. When these tidbits of hate change, only then will religion not be the problem. The fact is that the big underlying issue here is Religion. You can slice it all you want and blame the individual, but they are just sheep in a big mess of religious culture. Mormons actually accept just about everyone into their religion (they draw the line at mass murderers, around there at least). In the case of gays, they still expect them to seek "help" or accept "help" (usually in the form of counseling) to in order "improve" their "situation". I believe they will really only excommunicate you if you are very obvious about it and don't try to change it for a very long time. Yes that's a lot better...still shows they are blatantly bigoted and completely ignorant of what homosexuality actually is, by suggesting it's even possible to "change" it.
God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve I suppose. You can continue with your rant on religion, we'll continue telling you otherwise.
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On May 29 2011 14:14 manicshock wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:10 Olinim wrote:On May 29 2011 14:08 Barrin wrote:On May 29 2011 14:03 Bunnypanda wrote:On May 29 2011 13:42 ampson wrote:Well, that is honestly very sad. I wouldn't let myself be kidnapped without a pretty extreme fight though, I have a knife in my room somewhere.... But anyways, these kinds of camps ARE NOT legal and only exist because the terrible shit that they do is swept under the rug by the staff and the idiot parents who send their kids there. Anybody who has sent their kid to this terrible place for "behavioral modification" wouldn't admit their mistake or usually let their kids talk about it, and that is how they still exist. But now the place is being slapped with a shitton of lawsuits, so it won't exist for long. On May 28 2011 05:50 DisneylandSC wrote:
Religion at its finest. Absolutely disgusting. The blame does not lie with religion, the blame lies with people who can not stand the idea of homosexuality and then use religion to justify their bigotry. I honestly doubt these people adhere at all to the book of mormon, or the 10 commandments for that matter. And I am sure that true Mormons, whose #1 value is FAMILY, would never let this happen to their children. On May 28 2011 05:23 SiPa wrote:America fuck yeah! Thank god this isnt happening in Germany nor Swizerland Messed up shit happens all over the world man, Germany and Switzerland aren't paradises of tolerance. The best any country's government can do is get rid of these things as they come, and the US is doing that. That you can even say that this is not the fault of religion is beyond me. These people are not even considered "nutjobs", these are just strictly religious people that believe their doctrine so badly that they are willing to put their children through hell if that hell offers them a way to not be gay. The sheer amount of kids that end up in these camps should tell you as much, they all have parents that think this is the way to go to cure "the gay". Are they all extreme nutjobs or are they just gullible people that believe in a religion that tells them not to like it? Mormons accept gay people now? No. Christianity thinks homosexuality is moral now? No. When these tidbits of hate change, only then will religion not be the problem. The fact is that the big underlying issue here is Religion. You can slice it all you want and blame the individual, but they are just sheep in a big mess of religious culture. Mormons actually accept just about everyone into their religion (they draw the line at mass murderers, around there at least). In the case of gays, they still expect them to seek "help" or accept "help" (usually in the form of counseling) to in order "improve" their "situation". I believe they will really only excommunicate you if you are very obvious about it and don't try to change it for a very long time. Yes that's a lot better...still shows they are blatantly bigoted and completely ignorant of what homosexuality actually is, by suggesting it's even possible to "change" it. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve I suppose. You can continue with your rant on religion, we'll continue telling you otherwise.
I was "ranting" more about homophobia, not my fault many religions happen to suffer from it.
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This is completely terrible...elitist Europeans can raise their noses to this all day, but I'm just sad stuff like this happens anywhere in the world.
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On May 29 2011 14:03 Bunnypanda wrote:
That you can even say that this is not the fault of religion is beyond me. These people are not even considered "nutjobs", these are just strictly religious people that believe their doctrine so badly that they are willing to put their children through hell if that hell offers them a way to not be gay. The sheer amount of kids that end up in these camps should tell you as much, they all have parents that think this is the way to go to cure "the gay". Are they all extreme nutjobs or are they just gullible people that believe in a religion that tells them not to like it?
Mormons accept gay people now? No.
Christianity thinks homosexuality is moral now? No.
When these tidbits of hate change, only then will religion not be the problem.
The fact is that the big underlying issue here is Religion. You can slice it all you want and blame the individual, but they are just sheep in a big mess of religious culture.
Actually, I guess you are right. These bigoted people cite religion as the reason why they abuse homosexuals. However, this is FLAWED execution of religion. Show me this place and I will find so many violations of religious doctrine that it will be obvious these people were simple bigots using religion as a justification for their immoral behavior. These people represent religion like combatEX represents progaming.
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I’d also like to mention how many times I saw staff and administration, tackle and restrain children when it was completely unnecessary. So many times I saw kids simply refuse to go to gym class or get out of bed and as punishment they were violently tackled, restrained in a painful position, and taken to a small isolation room where they were usually watched by two or three staff members. This was also what they did when a child harmed themselves. This method is extremely violent, and I remember at least one incident that happened when I was there where they tackled a girl and restrained her face down against the ground and as a result she got rug burn on her face to the point that she was bleeding and had visible scabs on her face. Another time a girl shared that being tackled and restrained gave her flashbacks of a rape she’d experienced, to which the program director responded that he felt no remorse for it and that it was really her fault for doing what ever she’d done to be restrained. You could argue that this might be appropriate in cases where a kid is being violent towards others, but from what I saw, more often than not, this was absolutely not the case and the child being restrained was not being violent. In addition to tackling and restraint being (in my humble opinion) immoral, it is unsafe, and this has been proven. If you look on the website for the Coalition Against Institutionalized Child Abuse, you can see a long list of deaths that have occurred in “behavioral modification” facilities not unlike Cross Creek as a result of tackling and restraint. http://www.caica.org/RESTRAINTS Death List.htm
This doesn't just sound morally wrong, it sounds like its illegal. At the very least it ought to be.
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On May 29 2011 14:27 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:10 Olinim wrote:On May 29 2011 14:08 Barrin wrote:On May 29 2011 14:03 Bunnypanda wrote:On May 29 2011 13:42 ampson wrote:Well, that is honestly very sad. I wouldn't let myself be kidnapped without a pretty extreme fight though, I have a knife in my room somewhere.... But anyways, these kinds of camps ARE NOT legal and only exist because the terrible shit that they do is swept under the rug by the staff and the idiot parents who send their kids there. Anybody who has sent their kid to this terrible place for "behavioral modification" wouldn't admit their mistake or usually let their kids talk about it, and that is how they still exist. But now the place is being slapped with a shitton of lawsuits, so it won't exist for long. On May 28 2011 05:50 DisneylandSC wrote:
Religion at its finest. Absolutely disgusting. The blame does not lie with religion, the blame lies with people who can not stand the idea of homosexuality and then use religion to justify their bigotry. I honestly doubt these people adhere at all to the book of mormon, or the 10 commandments for that matter. And I am sure that true Mormons, whose #1 value is FAMILY, would never let this happen to their children. On May 28 2011 05:23 SiPa wrote:America fuck yeah! Thank god this isnt happening in Germany nor Swizerland Messed up shit happens all over the world man, Germany and Switzerland aren't paradises of tolerance. The best any country's government can do is get rid of these things as they come, and the US is doing that. That you can even say that this is not the fault of religion is beyond me. These people are not even considered "nutjobs", these are just strictly religious people that believe their doctrine so badly that they are willing to put their children through hell if that hell offers them a way to not be gay. The sheer amount of kids that end up in these camps should tell you as much, they all have parents that think this is the way to go to cure "the gay". Are they all extreme nutjobs or are they just gullible people that believe in a religion that tells them not to like it? Mormons accept gay people now? No. Christianity thinks homosexuality is moral now? No. When these tidbits of hate change, only then will religion not be the problem. The fact is that the big underlying issue here is Religion. You can slice it all you want and blame the individual, but they are just sheep in a big mess of religious culture. Mormons actually accept just about everyone into their religion (they draw the line at mass murderers, around there at least). In the case of gays, they still expect them to seek "help" or accept "help" (usually in the form of counseling) to in order "improve" their "situation". I believe they will really only excommunicate you if you are very obvious about it and don't try to change it for a very long time. Yes that's a lot better...still shows they are blatantly bigoted and completely ignorant of what homosexuality actually is, by suggesting it's even possible to "change" it. I must say that I am also quite ignorant about whether or not people are "born gay". No clue really. I also admit that I don't really feel comfortable interacting with gay people (I have had less than pleasant encounters in the past). I would never bother them about it unless they first bother me about it (i.e. hitting on me) though. Anyways, if I may offer some insight. As mentioned earlier, Mormons hold Family as one of their very top priorities. For obvious reasons, gay people cannot make babies which in Mormon's eyes disrupts the whole Family process (they believe this Family thing to be integral to "gods plan"). So if you put yourself in their shoes for a moment (bear with me here), it's not hard to conclude (from some perspectives) that it doesn't make sense that God would create people who can only be gay and therefore cannot form a "Family". This makes a lot of sense from a limited perspective, but I could poke holes in it (which I wont bother to right now).
Even from this "limited perspective" it would only hinder their cause, because if it doesn't make sense within your religion for God to create gay people and he did, that means your religion doesn't make sense. Of course homophobes often try to write it off as a choice, or a "defiance of God" ,basically pick any insane rationalization.
Also some basic logic would lead you to conclude that people don't choose to be gay. Did you choose who you are attracted to? Do you choose what food you like? Obviously not, it's how you were born.
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On May 29 2011 14:39 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:32 ampson wrote:On May 29 2011 14:03 Bunnypanda wrote:
That you can even say that this is not the fault of religion is beyond me. These people are not even considered "nutjobs", these are just strictly religious people that believe their doctrine so badly that they are willing to put their children through hell if that hell offers them a way to not be gay. The sheer amount of kids that end up in these camps should tell you as much, they all have parents that think this is the way to go to cure "the gay". Are they all extreme nutjobs or are they just gullible people that believe in a religion that tells them not to like it?
Mormons accept gay people now? No.
Christianity thinks homosexuality is moral now? No.
When these tidbits of hate change, only then will religion not be the problem.
The fact is that the big underlying issue here is Religion. You can slice it all you want and blame the individual, but they are just sheep in a big mess of religious culture.
Actually, I guess you are right. These bigoted people cite religion as the reason why they abuse homosexuals. However, this is FLAWED religion. Show me this place and I will find so many violations of religious doctrine that it will be obvious these people were simple bigots using religion as a justification for their immoral behavior. These people represent religion like combatEX represents progaming. As far as I'm concerned every religion is flawed. If you take the bolded sentence literally, you're just saying the whole religion is flawed (and therefore pretty much saying nothing IMO). What I think you really mean is that it is flawed (i.e. hypocritical) execution of religious ideals. Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 14:39 Olinim wrote:On May 29 2011 14:27 Barrin wrote:On May 29 2011 14:10 Olinim wrote:On May 29 2011 14:08 Barrin wrote:On May 29 2011 14:03 Bunnypanda wrote:On May 29 2011 13:42 ampson wrote:Well, that is honestly very sad. I wouldn't let myself be kidnapped without a pretty extreme fight though, I have a knife in my room somewhere.... But anyways, these kinds of camps ARE NOT legal and only exist because the terrible shit that they do is swept under the rug by the staff and the idiot parents who send their kids there. Anybody who has sent their kid to this terrible place for "behavioral modification" wouldn't admit their mistake or usually let their kids talk about it, and that is how they still exist. But now the place is being slapped with a shitton of lawsuits, so it won't exist for long. On May 28 2011 05:50 DisneylandSC wrote:
Religion at its finest. Absolutely disgusting. The blame does not lie with religion, the blame lies with people who can not stand the idea of homosexuality and then use religion to justify their bigotry. I honestly doubt these people adhere at all to the book of mormon, or the 10 commandments for that matter. And I am sure that true Mormons, whose #1 value is FAMILY, would never let this happen to their children. On May 28 2011 05:23 SiPa wrote:America fuck yeah! Thank god this isnt happening in Germany nor Swizerland Messed up shit happens all over the world man, Germany and Switzerland aren't paradises of tolerance. The best any country's government can do is get rid of these things as they come, and the US is doing that. That you can even say that this is not the fault of religion is beyond me. These people are not even considered "nutjobs", these are just strictly religious people that believe their doctrine so badly that they are willing to put their children through hell if that hell offers them a way to not be gay. The sheer amount of kids that end up in these camps should tell you as much, they all have parents that think this is the way to go to cure "the gay". Are they all extreme nutjobs or are they just gullible people that believe in a religion that tells them not to like it? Mormons accept gay people now? No. Christianity thinks homosexuality is moral now? No. When these tidbits of hate change, only then will religion not be the problem. The fact is that the big underlying issue here is Religion. You can slice it all you want and blame the individual, but they are just sheep in a big mess of religious culture. Mormons actually accept just about everyone into their religion (they draw the line at mass murderers, around there at least). In the case of gays, they still expect them to seek "help" or accept "help" (usually in the form of counseling) to in order "improve" their "situation". I believe they will really only excommunicate you if you are very obvious about it and don't try to change it for a very long time. Yes that's a lot better...still shows they are blatantly bigoted and completely ignorant of what homosexuality actually is, by suggesting it's even possible to "change" it. I must say that I am also quite ignorant about whether or not people are "born gay". No clue really. I also admit that I don't really feel comfortable interacting with gay people (I have had less than pleasant encounters in the past). I would never bother them about it unless they first bother me about it (i.e. hitting on me) though. Anyways, if I may offer some insight. As mentioned earlier, Mormons hold Family as one of their very top priorities. For obvious reasons, gay people cannot make babies which in Mormon's eyes disrupts the whole Family process (they believe this Family thing to be integral to "gods plan"). So if you put yourself in their shoes for a moment (bear with me here), it's not hard to conclude (from some perspectives) that it doesn't make sense that God would create people who can only be gay and therefore cannot form a "Family". This makes a lot of sense from a limited perspective, but I could poke holes in it (which I wont bother to right now). Even from this "limited perspective" it would only hinder their cause, because if it doesn't make sense within your religion for God to create gay people and he did, that means your religion doesn't make sense. Of course homophobes often try to write it off as a choice, or a "defiance of God" ,basically pick any insane rationalization. They do not believe that God created "gay people". They believe that people sometimes choose to be gay.
Yes, which is an insane rationalization.
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EPT
