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Feds cracking down on online poker..? - Page 28

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Pokerstars is an online poker site. Pokerstrategy is an educational training site. They are not the same site. The TSL3 is sponsored by pokerstrategy.com.
sleigh bells
Profile Joined April 2011
United States358 Posts
April 16 2011 04:16 GMT
#541
look online gambling was always in a gray area for US citizens. but it still sucks for money that you earned from other consenting adults is gonna get taken away.

i would personally never have racked up a balance, but it still really sucks for the people that did. and the laws are silly when lotteries and vegas are still legal. 6k? holy shit dude i would be so pissed.
Sup son? ¯\__(ツ)__/¯
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 04:21:43
April 16 2011 04:21 GMT
#542
On April 16 2011 13:03 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 12:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
Those of you who had more than 10k tied up in online poker sites: what the fuck were you thinking? I know players who refuse to use those sites at all because they view them as insecure and prone to corruption. If you somehow get your money back for god's sakes take the lesson and don't keep so much liquid there.


Its quite simple. For starters, most good regs started with 50-200 bucks and turned them into 10k or more. 2nd, poker is a high variance game and you need a big bankroll compared to the stake you play to avoid ruin when you run bad (and you are a long term winning player). Also, the higher u play, the lower ur edge/higher variance, so you need even more bi's relative to the stake.

For example, a simple br management (some people use more agressive/less agressive bankroll management, but this kinda standard):
stake / bank roll required
nl10 - 200 bucks
nl25 - 600 bucks
nl50 - 1250 bucks
nl100 - 3k
nl200 - 10k
nl600 - 60k
nl1k - 100k


micromanage your money. There should not be so many people with large amounts of cash just sitting in their system, it's simply insane to trust them with your money.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Stroggoz
Profile Joined March 2011
New Zealand79 Posts
April 16 2011 04:23 GMT
#543
dam i wish i had like 50k in my account now. There are only fish at the high stakes games
ammeL
Profile Joined August 2009
United States211 Posts
April 16 2011 04:41 GMT
#544
So does this mean anyone who was under 21 and used PokerStars or AbsolutePoker would get fined 250,000?

Or does this just mean anyone who had money on an account just loses all that?

Those who criticize our generation forget who raised it.
Stroggoz
Profile Joined March 2011
New Zealand79 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 04:47:41
April 16 2011 04:42 GMT
#545
On April 16 2011 12:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
Those of you who had more than 10k tied up in online poker sites: what the fuck were you thinking? I know players who refuse to use those sites at all because they view them as insecure and prone to corruption. If you somehow get your money back for god's sakes take the lesson and don't keep so much liquid there.


no offense but poker players are much better at assessing risk/reward situations than the average person. As long as a poker player is consistently cashing out, losing your online roll isnt that bad of a loss if you have a good income off poker
Hurricane
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3939 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 04:44:52
April 16 2011 04:42 GMT
#546
On April 16 2011 13:21 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 13:03 GoTuNk! wrote:
On April 16 2011 12:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
Those of you who had more than 10k tied up in online poker sites: what the fuck were you thinking? I know players who refuse to use those sites at all because they view them as insecure and prone to corruption. If you somehow get your money back for god's sakes take the lesson and don't keep so much liquid there.


Its quite simple. For starters, most good regs started with 50-200 bucks and turned them into 10k or more. 2nd, poker is a high variance game and you need a big bankroll compared to the stake you play to avoid ruin when you run bad (and you are a long term winning player). Also, the higher u play, the lower ur edge/higher variance, so you need even more bi's relative to the stake.

For example, a simple br management (some people use more agressive/less agressive bankroll management, but this kinda standard):
stake / bank roll required
nl10 - 200 bucks
nl25 - 600 bucks
nl50 - 1250 bucks
nl100 - 3k
nl200 - 10k
nl600 - 60k
nl1k - 100k


micromanage your money. There should not be so many people with large amounts of cash just sitting in their system, it's simply insane to trust them with your money.

It is not insane to trust a company that has been around for over a decade doing international business and handles at the very minimum thousands of transactions per day.

It is insane to play high stakes without the proper bank roll because then it is truly gambling.

That said there are not a ton of people that play as a living playing high stakes.

On April 16 2011 13:41 ammeL wrote:
So does this mean anyone who was under 21 and used PokerStars or AbsolutePoker would get fined 250,000?

Or does this just mean anyone who had money on an account just loses all that?


The legal gambling age in US is 18.

We don't know what's going to happen to our money until we have more information. Most of us are planning for the worst though.
RIP CHARLIEMURPHY 11/25/10 NEVER FORGET | Hurricane#1183 @ B.net
Stroggoz
Profile Joined March 2011
New Zealand79 Posts
April 16 2011 04:45 GMT
#547
On April 16 2011 13:21 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 13:03 GoTuNk! wrote:
On April 16 2011 12:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
Those of you who had more than 10k tied up in online poker sites: what the fuck were you thinking? I know players who refuse to use those sites at all because they view them as insecure and prone to corruption. If you somehow get your money back for god's sakes take the lesson and don't keep so much liquid there.


Its quite simple. For starters, most good regs started with 50-200 bucks and turned them into 10k or more. 2nd, poker is a high variance game and you need a big bankroll compared to the stake you play to avoid ruin when you run bad (and you are a long term winning player). Also, the higher u play, the lower ur edge/higher variance, so you need even more bi's relative to the stake.

For example, a simple br management (some people use more agressive/less agressive bankroll management, but this kinda standard):
stake / bank roll required
nl10 - 200 bucks
nl25 - 600 bucks
nl50 - 1250 bucks
nl100 - 3k
nl200 - 10k
nl600 - 60k
nl1k - 100k


micromanage your money. There should not be so many people with large amounts of cash just sitting in their system, it's simply insane to trust them with your money.


you mean like banks? lol
ammeL
Profile Joined August 2009
United States211 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 04:47:54
April 16 2011 04:47 GMT
#548
Right. But I'm curious - even if you were underage, they can't come crawling to your door, can they? It seems like this is just against the actual companies - PokerStars, AbsolutePoker, etc.
Those who criticize our generation forget who raised it.
Hurricane
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3939 Posts
April 16 2011 04:49 GMT
#549
On April 16 2011 13:47 ammeL wrote:
Right. But I'm curious - even if you were underage, they can't come crawling to your door, can they? It seems like this is just against the actual companies - PokerStars, AbsolutePoker, etc.

If they do find someone gambling under age you can be prosecuted, but this particular case is against the compains/owners of the companies not the players. More specifically it is about the way they interacted with the banks to allow Americans to deposit/withdraw money.
RIP CHARLIEMURPHY 11/25/10 NEVER FORGET | Hurricane#1183 @ B.net
ammeL
Profile Joined August 2009
United States211 Posts
April 16 2011 04:56 GMT
#550
I see.

So essentially, these big name sites used another alias that would appear on an American's bank statement. Because, terms like 'Poker' are banned in most US banking systems so such a withdrawal/deposit would never go through. But, these big companies renamed the name of the transaction to something else, which is what the Feds are after.

And since these sites are being shut down (at least on the US side), the money that American players had in their accounts are gone. But it really has nothing to do with players who played previously, etc. It basically just sucks for people who currently have money in their accounts.
Those who criticize our generation forget who raised it.
Skullflower
Profile Joined July 2010
United States3779 Posts
April 16 2011 04:57 GMT
#551
On April 16 2011 11:41 rubiKs wrote:
Not sure if this has been posted or yet. But here is the "cause of all of it" http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/fbi-charges-11-internet-poker-kingpins-20110416-1difk.html


I don't think you truly have to be a genius to realize shell companies can be a good way to launder money...
The ruminations are mine, let the world be yours.
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 05:03:39
April 16 2011 05:03 GMT
#552
Im Canadian, and I was able to withdraw my whole bankroll. Im not sure it was necessary but i did it for safety reasons. At least until things calm down and I am convinced pokerstars.eu will honor all the bankrolls.
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
ammeL
Profile Joined August 2009
United States211 Posts
April 16 2011 05:05 GMT
#553
So the issue is basically between the companies and the feds.

And that primary issue creates a problem for the players: what will happen to their money
Those who criticize our generation forget who raised it.
Hurricane
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3939 Posts
April 16 2011 05:08 GMT
#554
On April 16 2011 14:05 ammeL wrote:
So the issue is basically between the companies and the feds.

And that primary issue creates a problem for the players: what will happen to their money

Yep.

Also for the people who played to make a living... what the fuck now. I'm confident thousands of people are now out of jobs because Americans cannot play on these sites for the foreseeable future (read: months if not years).
RIP CHARLIEMURPHY 11/25/10 NEVER FORGET | Hurricane#1183 @ B.net
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 05:15:26
April 16 2011 05:14 GMT
#555
On April 16 2011 13:42 Hurricane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 13:21 UniversalSnip wrote:
On April 16 2011 13:03 GoTuNk! wrote:
On April 16 2011 12:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
Those of you who had more than 10k tied up in online poker sites: what the fuck were you thinking? I know players who refuse to use those sites at all because they view them as insecure and prone to corruption. If you somehow get your money back for god's sakes take the lesson and don't keep so much liquid there.


Its quite simple. For starters, most good regs started with 50-200 bucks and turned them into 10k or more. 2nd, poker is a high variance game and you need a big bankroll compared to the stake you play to avoid ruin when you run bad (and you are a long term winning player). Also, the higher u play, the lower ur edge/higher variance, so you need even more bi's relative to the stake.

For example, a simple br management (some people use more agressive/less agressive bankroll management, but this kinda standard):
stake / bank roll required
nl10 - 200 bucks
nl25 - 600 bucks
nl50 - 1250 bucks
nl100 - 3k
nl200 - 10k
nl600 - 60k
nl1k - 100k


micromanage your money. There should not be so many people with large amounts of cash just sitting in their system, it's simply insane to trust them with your money.

It is not insane to trust a company that has been around for over a decade doing international business and handles at the very minimum thousands of transactions per day.

It is insane to play high stakes without the proper bank roll because then it is truly gambling.

That said there are not a ton of people that play as a living playing high stakes.

Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 13:41 ammeL wrote:
So does this mean anyone who was under 21 and used PokerStars or AbsolutePoker would get fined 250,000?

Or does this just mean anyone who had money on an account just loses all that?


The legal gambling age in US is 18.

We don't know what's going to happen to our money until we have more information. Most of us are planning for the worst though.


He's not saying play high stakes without the proper bankroll.

He's saying have the majority of your bankroll in a bank, and have, say, 5 buyins on FTP.

Note: don't shoot the messenger kthx. Just clarifying on what I thought ought to be his obvious implication, rather than your assumption that he meant don't play with a legit bankroll.
www.infinityseven.net
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
April 16 2011 05:15 GMT
#556
Cashed out my poker account (not that I have much money there, but it's a bit more than I put in so happyface). Glad I saw this cause I haven't played in awhile ^_^ I'd hate to get my money stuck.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Hurricane
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3939 Posts
April 16 2011 05:18 GMT
#557
Eh, seems retarded to not have 40+ buy in's for your stake online when having -10+ buy in swings is pretty standard at higher stakes.
RIP CHARLIEMURPHY 11/25/10 NEVER FORGET | Hurricane#1183 @ B.net
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
April 16 2011 05:20 GMT
#558
On April 16 2011 14:14 PJA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 13:42 Hurricane wrote:
On April 16 2011 13:21 UniversalSnip wrote:
On April 16 2011 13:03 GoTuNk! wrote:
On April 16 2011 12:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
Those of you who had more than 10k tied up in online poker sites: what the fuck were you thinking? I know players who refuse to use those sites at all because they view them as insecure and prone to corruption. If you somehow get your money back for god's sakes take the lesson and don't keep so much liquid there.


Its quite simple. For starters, most good regs started with 50-200 bucks and turned them into 10k or more. 2nd, poker is a high variance game and you need a big bankroll compared to the stake you play to avoid ruin when you run bad (and you are a long term winning player). Also, the higher u play, the lower ur edge/higher variance, so you need even more bi's relative to the stake.

For example, a simple br management (some people use more agressive/less agressive bankroll management, but this kinda standard):
stake / bank roll required
nl10 - 200 bucks
nl25 - 600 bucks
nl50 - 1250 bucks
nl100 - 3k
nl200 - 10k
nl600 - 60k
nl1k - 100k


micromanage your money. There should not be so many people with large amounts of cash just sitting in their system, it's simply insane to trust them with your money.

It is not insane to trust a company that has been around for over a decade doing international business and handles at the very minimum thousands of transactions per day.

It is insane to play high stakes without the proper bank roll because then it is truly gambling.

That said there are not a ton of people that play as a living playing high stakes.

On April 16 2011 13:41 ammeL wrote:
So does this mean anyone who was under 21 and used PokerStars or AbsolutePoker would get fined 250,000?

Or does this just mean anyone who had money on an account just loses all that?


The legal gambling age in US is 18.

We don't know what's going to happen to our money until we have more information. Most of us are planning for the worst though.


He's not saying play high stakes without the proper bankroll.

He's saying have the majority of your bankroll in a bank, and have, say, 5 buyins on FTP.


Most good players are playing at least 8 tables at once, if not 12+, and of course you'll need money to rebuy if you lose money on any tables. Plus it can be a pain to constantly deposit/withdraw, especially in the US.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
April 16 2011 05:21 GMT
#559
On April 16 2011 14:18 Hurricane wrote:
Eh, seems retarded to not have 40+ buy in's for your stake online when having -10+ buy in swings is pretty standard at higher stakes.


I would tend to agree that it isn't feasible. OTOH, if you analyzed it from a "what would happen if FTP shut down and I lost X money" versus the opportunity cost of micromanaging your money, perhaps you could find some equilibrium.
www.infinityseven.net
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 05:28:28
April 16 2011 05:25 GMT
#560
On April 16 2011 14:21 PJA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 14:18 Hurricane wrote:
Eh, seems retarded to not have 40+ buy in's for your stake online when having -10+ buy in swings is pretty standard at higher stakes.


I would tend to agree that it isn't feasible. OTOH, if you analyzed it from a "what would happen if FTP shut down and I lost X money" versus the opportunity cost of micromanaging your money, perhaps you could find some equilibrium.


Tbh up to this point I tought my funds at ps were safer than some banks here (and most in argentina/bolivia/venezuela)
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