EPTIraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 429
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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12591 Posts
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Billyboy
2605 Posts
I'm sure if some ultra nationalist took Moscow after years of talking about the destruction of Poland and all the Poles all these "leftists" would also be super angry if Poland attacked military targets, shored up there border and created the buffer. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12591 Posts
Anyway you seem a little angry about the left, that's not sound in my opinion. | ||
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Billyboy
2605 Posts
On December 12 2024 23:20 Nebuchad wrote: I can't believe I didn't take a screenshot of the time JimmiC explained that Israel wasn't expansionist because they gave back this very important place, suddenly now that Israel is taking it back again it's a small inconsequential piece of land. Honestly I was pretty sure I had kept it because it was in the middle of a post about how he had done a bunch of research to get to his conclusion and he called it "Yolanda Heights" lol. Anyway you seem a little angry about the left, that's not sound in my opinion. I'm not angry about the left, just leftists who somehow know better than the Syrians about who was actually causing their death and destruction. What percentage of Syrian civilians were killed by Israel? .1%? The actual biggest expansionist empires are Russia, Iran, and China. And yet I can't find any posts by leftists about it. I will say it is very annoying that you spoiled entitled often wealthy leftists drink down so much garbage and act superior while supporting countries and groups that in no way support any actual leftist values. But at least you get to look cool and edgy on the interwebs! On the bonus of things I do enjoy how much you leftists and MAGA agree on. Hmmmm I wonder how that happened. But I mean clearly you actually care more about human rights, look how many cool Che and Castro T-Shirts! | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12591 Posts
On December 13 2024 00:18 Billyboy wrote: I'm not angry about the left, just leftists who somehow know better than the Syrians about who was actually causing their death and destruction. What percentage of Syrian civilians were killed by Israel? .1%? The actual biggest expansionist empires are Russia, Iran, and China. And yet I can't find any posts by leftists about it. I will say it is very annoying that you spoiled entitled often wealthy leftists drink down so much garbage and act superior while supporting countries and groups that in no way support any actual leftist values. But at least you get to look cool and edgy on the interwebs! On the bonus of things I do enjoy how much you leftists and MAGA agree on. Hmmmm I wonder how that happened. But I mean clearly you actually care more about human rights, look how many cool Che and Castro T-Shirts! I do not own any Che or Castro t-shirts. I do have a cool Bernie shirt though, it says "hindsight is 2020", love it. My best t-shirt is actually one that says "the angels have the phone box", got it like 15 years ago from Bulgaria and it's still in good shape, shoutout to that company whatever it was. Now personally when I compare "owning a t-shirt" and "supporting ethnic cleansing", I feel like one of the two is less objectionable than the other, but that's just how my morality works. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On December 13 2024 00:18 Billyboy wrote: I'm not angry about the left, just leftists who somehow know better than the Syrians about who was actually causing their death and destruction. What percentage of Syrian civilians were killed by Israel? .1%? The actual biggest expansionist empires are Russia, Iran, and China. And yet I can't find any posts by leftists about it. I will say it is very annoying that you spoiled entitled often wealthy leftists drink down so much garbage and act superior while supporting countries and groups that in no way support any actual leftist values. But at least you get to look cool and edgy on the interwebs! On the bonus of things I do enjoy how much you leftists and MAGA agree on. Hmmmm I wonder how that happened. But I mean clearly you actually care more about human rights, look how many cool Che and Castro T-Shirts! Which Syrians? Sunni Arab? Shia Arab? Alawite? Druze? Kurdish? Turkoman? I think each of those could give a very different opinion. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2349 Posts
On December 13 2024 00:18 Billyboy wrote: Iran Last time gained ground: 1971, from Britain. Territorial dispute: 3 occupied shithole islands since 1971, claimed also by United Arab Emirates. Other iranian claims: null all i know. Last claim to Bahrain: ceaded. Calling them expantionist is one thing that is unfair. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On December 12 2024 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Too bad that Israel is once again forced to take land for self-defense, circumstances keep making it look leftists are right about their goals, it's annoying. Its not self defense, its snatching up scraps of a broken state. I wouldn't say its moral, but i wouldn't say its immoral. I guess amoral? The government abandoned ship, various factions are still fighting for control of various parts of Syria. Golan Heights is of course a major strategic position, so Israel is snatching it up. Is it not fair to compare this to the USSR falling? When a state fails, the remaining factions scramble to define their own land relative to the former failed state? ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/lnVGx8c.png) I'll be honest I am not familiar with how situations like this have been handled in the past other than the USSR. But this map shows even the dominant faction really does not control a ton of land right now. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18476 Posts
On December 13 2024 01:19 hitthat wrote: Last time gained ground: 1971, from Britain. Territorial dispute: 3 occupied shithole islands since 1971, claimed also by United Arab Emirates. Other iranian claims: null all i know. Last claim to Bahrain: ceaded. Calling them expantionist is one thing that is unfair. Huh? Just because they *lost* their was against Iraq doesn't mean they didn't try. Also, their proxies are intent on expanding their influence, not their territory. | ||
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Billyboy
2605 Posts
On December 13 2024 01:19 hitthat wrote: Last time gained ground: 1971, from Britain. Territorial dispute: 3 occupied shithole islands since 1971, claimed also by United Arab Emirates. Other iranian claims: null all i know. Last claim to Bahrain: ceaded. Calling them expantionist is one thing that is unfair. I do not understand how you can not see that Russia's closest ally is doing exactly was Russia was. They put a puppet government in Gaza through force. They have proxy armies that have more control than the government in Lebanon and Yemen. They controlled Syria until 2 weeks ago. I guess I can kind of see how people were fooled by the bullshit freedom fighter thing (the same way many are in Moldova and were in Crimean), but I don't know how now when the Syrian people are celebrating the end of Assad's brutal regime and the Rebels are naming him, Iran, and Hezbollah as the true enemies of the Syrian people that you would be still be under that obviously false narrative. Syria is free now because of Ukraine and in larger part Israel. That is just simply factual. It does not mean that Israel is perfect, they are far from that, but if you are somehow thinking that they are the problem in the area now. You need to really rethink where you are getting your news and what opinions you are listening too. Israel has less control over Syrian land than any of the players. Hell they have way less than ISIS. It might surprise some people here, but there is a effort from the far right to deport all the Syrian refugee's ASAP in Germany. BSW the populist leftist party is supporting their effort, not surprising because they also called to have their asylum seekers benefits cut. But surprising to those people that can't see that far left and far right populists are basically the same just with different branding. Russia has figured it out, hence their massive support for independent news sources regardless of branding. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12591 Posts
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Billyboy
2605 Posts
On December 13 2024 04:04 Nebuchad wrote: Jimmi you do understand that Israel has been grabbing land in Syria and bombing Syria after Assad was deposed, not before, right? Can you tell us more about all the Syrians that you have seen cheering for that event? Well Doodsmack, they have set up a buffer zone that they say is temporary. Time will tell if it is not, but again if you look at a map it is such a tiny amount that even if the Jews are half as bad as you think it will still be near the bottom of their concerns. As for the bombings the very few Syrians I get to talk to have mixed feelings. On one had all the chemical weapons, missiles and planes were used to kill Syrians. They desperately don't want Iran or Hezbollah back so destroying them all makes some sense, but on the other hand they would prefer if their army could get a hold of them so that they could protect themselves from the enemies that surround them. But there is a big asterisk there because like the rest of world they are really unsure if HTS is about what they are currently saying or not. Interestingly enough their opinion on Israel has taken a dramatic turn, not 180 but maybe 45-90 since they are grateful for the weakening of their actual oppressors. How about the Syrians you talk too? Do they hate Israel as much as you? I'm sure some do, but gladly some of that hate is dissipating. This is the most hopeful I've been for the middle east in a long time, even if it is just a glimmer. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12591 Posts
On December 13 2024 04:55 Billyboy wrote: Well Doodsmack, they have set up a buffer zone that they say is temporary. Time will tell if it is not, but again if you look at a map it is such a tiny amount that even if the Jews are half as bad as you think it will still be near the bottom of their concerns. As for the bombings the very few Syrians I get to talk to have mixed feelings. On one had all the chemical weapons, missiles and planes were used to kill Syrians. They desperately don't want Iran or Hezbollah back so destroying them all makes some sense, but on the other hand they would prefer if their army could get a hold of them so that they could protect themselves from the enemies that surround them. But there is a big asterisk there because like the rest of world they are really unsure if HTS is about what they are currently saying or not. Interestingly enough their opinion on Israel has taken a dramatic turn, not 180 but maybe 45-90 since they are grateful for the weakening of their actual oppressors. How about the Syrians you talk too? Do they hate Israel as much as you? I'm sure some do, but gladly some of that hate is dissipating. This is the most hopeful I've been for the middle east in a long time, even if it is just a glimmer. Not sure why you called me Doodsmack, I'm actually Nebuchad. I haven't talked to any Syrians. When they said that they "would prefer if their army could get a hold of them", which army was that? | ||
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Billyboy
2605 Posts
On December 13 2024 05:24 Nebuchad wrote: Not sure why you called me Doodsmack, I'm actually Nebuchad. I haven't talked to any Syrians. When they said that they "would prefer if their army could get a hold of them", which army was that? HTS, but like I said Dood, they are very unsure if they will be for Syrians or another evil dictatorships. You should go talk to some Syrians, there are far more in France than here and I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities to volunteer. I would be flabbergasted if you ever agreed with me, but I would be shocked if what they had to say at all resembled your news feed. I guess it depends how you ask, but if you actually went to them to learn about them, instead of to teach them about all this great stuff you know, you might get some real interesting insights. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12591 Posts
On December 13 2024 05:33 Billyboy wrote: HTS, but like I said Dood, they are very unsure if they will be for Syrians or another evil dictatorships. You should go talk to some Syrians, there are far more in France than here and I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities to volunteer. I would be flabbergasted if you ever agreed with me, but I would be shocked if what they had to say at all resembled your news feed. I guess it depends how you ask, but if you actually went to them to learn about them, instead of to teach them about all this great stuff you know, you might get some real interesting insights. I'm not following. Didn't HTS have a hold of those weapons already? Why would they tell you that they would prefer if HTS could get a hold of them? | ||
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Billyboy
2605 Posts
On December 13 2024 05:45 Nebuchad wrote: I'm not following. Didn't HTS have a hold of those weapons already? Why would they tell you that they would prefer if HTS could get a hold of them? Some were, some were controlled by other groups. The situation is fluid. There is still plenty of active fighting in many parts of Syria. Mohdoo's map changes by the day if not the hour. Turkey and their proxies are also waging war, but I've missed your commentary on that even though they control a much larger portion of Syria and have killed WAY more Syrian civilians than Israel. If you open yourself up to more sources all this will make way more sense. On top of that, they are also not sure that HTS is their government and not just a new source of awful that just bends the knee to Iran/Russia and so on for their own personal benefit. And on top of this, you don't believe me because it does not fit your world view. So go talk to actual Syrians, just don't expect that they will all agree either. This one is going to get messy for your world view, because the HTS is talking about free market. https://www.newarab.com/news/syrias-interim-government-pledges-free-market-reforms-under-hts Looking like Russia has made a deal to stay in Syria. First couple links I checked were paywalled here is a free one but all reports look similar. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/international/2024/12/12/russia-nears-deal-with-new-syria-leaders-to-keep-military-bases/ | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On December 13 2024 05:45 Nebuchad wrote: I'm not following. Didn't HTS have a hold of those weapons already? Why would they tell you that they would prefer if HTS could get a hold of them? I think basically all scenarios for Israel are better with less weapons in the hands of Syria. Weakening the negotiation power of whoever becomes dominant, whatever that even means in Syria, is likely strictly good for Israel. But it still kind of begs the question: What group in Syria would be reasonably more stable than Assad being propped up by Russia and Iran? It all feels very premature for people to decide HTS is some kinda stable government of Syria. The whole point is that its such a huge mix of deeply opposing factions that there isn't really a good way to maintain stability. There are multiple puppet groups all going bananas on each other and that map I posted highlights why the idea of a stable Syria feels unreasonable. There are a few good videos on youtube highlighting how the territorial maps that were drawn up after WW1 were deeply problematic and Syria is just another example of borders not reflecting ideology or identity. Makes me wonder if Syria is a good candidate for just being split up into a few different countries or something. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12591 Posts
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Billyboy
2605 Posts
On December 13 2024 06:17 Nebuchad wrote: If I'm entirely honest the reason why I don't believe you is because you've pulled this before, you had those Venezuelans that happened to agree with everything you believe and now you have those Syrians that happen to agree with everything you believe. Kind of sus in my opinion. So go talk to the real deal yourself, it is really easy. If you help people and just listen they will share all sorts of things with you. If I wanted to know about Venezuela I would talk to Venezuelans. Then I go to news sources various facts and even opinion pieces to come to my world view. But it is always changing because as I learn more I adjust my view to my new knowledge. I don't understand those that are so proud of how static their view is, and I can't understand why someone with access to people from the actual area would not go talk to them, would not help them? Just think of all the actual indepth knowledge you could gather to win the internet arguments you love to have! | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12591 Posts
On December 13 2024 06:26 Billyboy wrote: So go talk to the real deal yourself, it is really easy. If you help people and just listen they will share all sorts of things with you. If I wanted to know about Venezuela I would talk to Venezuelans. Then I go to news sources various facts and even opinion pieces to come to my world view. But it is always changing because as I learn more I adjust my view to my new knowledge. I don't understand those that are so proud of how static their view is, and I can't understand why someone with access to people from the actual area would not go talk to them, would not help them? Just think of all the actual indepth knowledge you could gather to win the internet arguments you love to have! What are some examples of positions that you used to have and you no longer do? | ||
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