EPTOn March 09 2011 08:42 smokeyhoodoo wrote:
People trading with one another is dumb?
People trading with one another is dumb?
It's dumb when one party gets the short stick.
Are Unions Necessary in the Modern World? - Page 10
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Rashid
191 Posts
It's dumb when one party gets the short stick. | ||
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smokeyhoodoo
United States1021 Posts
On March 09 2011 08:41 Rashid wrote: So technically, if a 13 year old starving girl is willing to work as a prostitute for me for breadcrumbs, then it's totally okay for me to hire her? I don't no which county you're from, but i actually live in one of these countries. I tell you, you get better wages working at McDonalds in America than most professional jobs in my country. I would say its morally wrong for you to do that, I would give the bread crumbs freely myself, but if she wan'ts to engage in such business, and its the only way she can eat, who am I to stop her? | ||
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Rashid
191 Posts
On March 09 2011 08:44 Carras wrote: capitalism is NOT people trading with one onother..capitalism is some guy gives you $5 hour to work.. but it turns out he sells what u produce in one hour at 7$ so theres a guy that makes $2 per hour,per worker.. AND DOESNT WORK,DOESNT DO SHIT FOR THE ECONOMY , thats capitalism QFT | ||
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smokeyhoodoo
United States1021 Posts
On March 09 2011 08:45 Rashid wrote: It's dumb when one party gets the short stick. Business transactions are always mutually beneficial, otherwise they wouldn't be made. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 09 2011 08:23 etherwar wrote: Sorry but you need to read my post a little better, and while you may think that "collective bargaining" is everything, I assure you that you are wrong. Governor Walker also wants to take away the ability of the Wisconsin public teacher's union to take up dues directly, and halt the current process of the state withholding dues from the teacher's checks. I don't really fall on either side of this issue, other than knowing that public unions by their very nature are opposed to the public interest. I think ALL the politicians in WI right now need to be told FUCK YOU AND GROW THE FUCK UP, that includes Walker and the dumbasses who fled the state to prevent the state from doing business. If you really read my post and still think I'm being childish, then that's your opinion. But you are coming off in your reply here to be rather uneducated about the issue and rather just parroting some cursory talking points from articles you've read (Prove me wrong, but that's the way it seems to me) I can only assume you cooled off in time between this post and last, because you're attitude is completely changed. And to be fair, parroting cursory talking points makes me sound way more educated about this issue than 90% of the people in this thread :D | ||
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smokeyhoodoo
United States1021 Posts
On March 09 2011 08:44 Carras wrote: capitalism is NOT people trading with one onother..capitalism is some guy gives you $5 hour to work.. but it turns out he sells what u produce in one hour at 7$ so theres a guy that makes $2 per hour,per worker.. AND DOESNT WORK,DOESNT DO SHIT FOR THE ECONOMY , thats capitalism edit...btw , this is the definition.. NO IDEOLOGY INCLUDED One person is selling the product of their labor, and the other is buying it. Sounds like a trade to me. | ||
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Carras
Argentina860 Posts
Business transactions are always mutually beneficial, otherwise they wouldn't be made. thats asumming everyones equal... in wich world do you live in where everyone gets the same chances,education, etc.. ? 10 pages into the post do we really need to discuss this ? | ||
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Carras
Argentina860 Posts
One person is selling the product of their labor, and the other is buying it. Sounds like a trade to me. a trade where theres one guy who has to work..and one who doesnt.. | ||
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
But i think union is not really democratic, its more like communism | ||
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smokeyhoodoo
United States1021 Posts
On March 09 2011 08:49 Carras wrote: thats asumming everyones equal... in wich world do you live in where everyone gets the same chances,education, etc.. ? 10 pages into the post do we really need to discuss this ? I never said one doesn't benefit more than the other. Regardless, people ought to have freedom of choice. If they wan't to trade something of theirs, your an evil person to say that they can't. It comes down to property rights. Does a person own their body? Their labor, is that theirs to trade? Or is it yours? Are they your slave? | ||
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etherwar
United States45 Posts
On March 09 2011 08:48 DoubleReed wrote: I can only assume you cooled off in time between this post and last, because you're attitude is completely changed. And to be fair, parroting cursory talking points makes me sound way more educated about this issue than 90% of the people in this thread :D I will agree with you on both points, but more-so on the second  | ||
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Yergidy
United States2107 Posts
On March 09 2011 08:44 Carras wrote: capitalism is NOT people trading with one onother..capitalism is some guy gives you $5 hour to work.. but it turns out he sells what u produce in one hour at 7$ so theres a guy that makes $2 per hour,per worker.. AND DOESNT WORK,DOESNT DO SHIT FOR THE ECONOMY , thats capitalism edit...btw , this is the definition.. NO IDEOLOGY INCLUDED That person that makes 2$ an hour does more work than the worker who gets paid to work... just because they don't do manual labor doesn't mean they don't work... Your view on capitalism is just skewed and downright wrong. People who own their own business work their asses off. | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
On March 09 2011 08:47 smokeyhoodoo wrote: Business transactions are always mutually beneficial, otherwise they wouldn't be made. They're beneficial for the people trading, not necessarily the workers. And workers are the people to whom unions pertain. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
Unions are an ugly solution to an uglier problem. | ||
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Rashid
191 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:00 Yergidy wrote: That person that makes 2$ an hour does more work than the worker who gets paid to work... just because they don't do manual labor doesn't mean they don't work... Your view on capitalism is just skewed and downright wrong. People who own their own business work their asses off. Yes, in fact, those employers really do work their asses off to earn their pay. I mean, somebody has to manage and supervise all those 13 year old indian girls in the sewing factory, right? Those girls aint gonna pimp slap themselves you know. | ||
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dANiELcanuck
Canada217 Posts
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Sephimos
United States144 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:11 dANiELcanuck wrote: Hell yes unions are necessary. If I wasn't in a union (and there were none for my trade) I'd be making 20$ an hour as a journeyman. Because I'm in a union I get paid over 50$ an hour, that includes benefits like health and welfare, pension, etc. Unions have their place. A small company trying to pay out union wages might not be able to afford it, but big corporations that won't notice wages for labour should be paying what the labour is worth. In my trade, as a scaffolder, people's lives depend on me being able to do my job safely, and doing it right the first time. We take pride in our work, and make sure people are educated. Non-union workers (in the past) have refused to work on non-union built scaffolds, because they didn't feel safe. What's that tell you? Exactly, cumbersome unions are necessary because they benefit you personally. What a convincing argument. And thank you for being in a construction union especially, skyrocketing the costs of home building and road repair. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:07 Severedevil wrote: Unions are an ugly solution to an uglier problem. Perfectly stated. | ||
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Sephimos
United States144 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:07 Severedevil wrote: If every worker had an agent, we wouldn't need unions. Unfortunately, a full-time worker cannot also be looking for better jobs and negotiating for better salary remotely as well as a trained professional. And corporations always have trained professionals trying to keep salaries low in innovative and obfuscative ways... Unions are an ugly solution to an uglier problem. This argument might hold some weight in the private sector, it holds none in the public. The public worker's employers are the people, they have no right of negotiation or strike. | ||
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