BOULDER, Colo. — Researchers in Colorado have made a startling discovery. Fish, apparently male, are developing female sexual organs. Scientists believe it's the result of too much estrogen in the water and they're finding estrogen in rivers across the country. In Colorado's rivers and streams, scientists are waist-deep in ritual of the season, using electric currents to stun native fish to the surface where they're measured and checked. But what they discovered in the white sucker fish has got even veteran scientists concerned. "I've done a lot of studies throughout my career which extends back to 1973," says research associate John Woodling. “This is the very first time that what I've found scared me." "This fish has characteristics of both male and female," says Dr. David O. Norris of the University of Colorado, Boulder. And scientists have found lots of them in three Colorado rivers, all of them downstream from sewage treatment plants. In the Boulder Creek, female white suckers outnumbered males five to one and 50 percent of the males also had female sex tissue. Researchers say the cause is too much estrogen in the water, a natural female hormone that is found in every sewer system. But also, they say, certain chemical compounds in detergents and soaps can mimic estrogen. Barbara Biggs, of Denver's largest sewage plant, says most of the nation's sewage plants simply can't remove all the estrogen in the water. "We're concerned about the effect on aquatic life, but we're also concerned about our ability to actually treat for these estrogens and estrogen mimickers," says Biggs. Estrogen mimickers are believed to be caused by chemicals called nonylphenols, found in everything from paints and rubber to cosmetics and plastics. They are considered a possible cause of kidney, eye, liver and reproductive problems. They’ve been banned in much of Europe and are under review in Canada, but are still common in America, where they are flowing out of sewage plants and into clean water flowing into America's rivers. Government researchers recently found natural estrogens and estrogen mimickers in 80 percent of the streams they tested in 30 states. "We would be ingesting those chemicals, would absorb them, and they would add to whatever natural hormones we already have in the body," says Dr. Norris. No one is certain what the impact is on humans. But since finding evidence that estrogen may be turning male fish into female fish, scientists are now looking at what it means for the nation's drinking water. In a state that prides itself on living in harmony with nature, this is evidence, say researchers, of a hormonal imbalance.
Plastic packaging is not without its downsides, and if you thought mineral water was 'clean', it may be time to think again. According to Martin Wagner and Jörg Oehlmann from the Department of Aquatic Ecotoxicology at the Goethe University in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, plastic mineral water bottles contaminate drinking water with estrogenic chemicals. In an analysis1 of commercially available mineral waters, the researchers found evidence of estrogenic compounds leaching out of the plastic packaging into the water. What's more, these chemicals are potent in vivo and result in an increased development of embryos in the New Zealand mud snail. These findings, which show for the first time that substances leaching out of plastic food packaging materials act as functional estrogens, are published in Springer's journal Environmental Science and Pollution Research.
Wagner and Oehlmann looked at whether the migration of substances from packaging material into foodstuffs contributes to human exposure to man-made hormones. They analyzed 20 brands of mineral water available in Germany - nine bottled in glass, nine bottled in plastic and two bottled in composite packaging (paperboard boxes coated with an inner plastic film). The researchers took water samples from the bottles and tested them for the presence of estrogenic chemicals in vitro. They then carried out a reproduction test with the New Zealand mud snail to determine the source and potency of the xenoestrogens.
They detected estrogen contamination in 60% of the samples (12 of the 20 brands) analyzed. Mineral waters in glass bottles were less estrogenic than waters in plastic bottles. Specifically, 33% of all mineral waters bottled in glass compared with 78% of waters in plastic bottles and both waters bottled in composite packaging showed significant hormonal activity.
By breeding the New Zealand mud snail in both plastic and glass water bottles, the researchers found more than double the number of embryos in plastic bottles compared with glass bottles. Taken together, these results demonstrate widespread contamination of mineral water with potent man-made estrogens that partly originate from compounds leaching out of the plastic packaging material.
The authors conclude: "We must have identified just the tip of the iceberg in that plastic packaging may be a major source of xenohormone* contamination of many other edibles. Our findings provide an insight into the potential exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals due to unexpected sources of contamination."
Notes:
*man-made substance that has a hormone-like effect
Reference
1. Wagner M & Oehlmann J (2009). Endocrine disruptors in bottled mineral water: total estrogenic burden and migration from plastic bottles. Environ Sci Pollut Res; [10.1007/s11356-009-0107-7]
Estrogen and estrogen-like compounds enter water rivers, steams and reservoirs from many sources and remain there even after passing through water treatment plants. About 80% of 139 U.S. rivers are contaminated with trace estrogen compounds. Naturally occurring estrogen compounds come from livestock urine and feces, and from human excretions which also contain contraceptives and hormone replacement medications. Other estrogen-like compounds are found in products such insecticides and plastic bottles, and they all find their way into the water supply including the drinking water supply.
The most damning evidence of the impact of estrogens in water was found in male fish swimming downstream from estrogen-containing water sources. In 2004, in Colorado, male fish were found to have both male and female sexual characteristics, such as partially developed ova, or eggs, in their testes. Fish damaged in this way have been found in the United States, Great Britain, Italy and other countries. This sex-related damage to fish may not be significant but researchers suggest that it's a warning of potential dangers to humans. Estrogens in drinking water may affect male fertility by interfering with sperm production. Links between environmental estrogenic compounds and several kinds of cancer, especially breast and testicular cancer, also have been suggested.
A 2007 study from the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute's Center for Environmental Oncology found that fish caught in Pittsburgh's rivers contain substances that mimic the actions the female hormone. Fish concentrate chemicals from the surrounding water in their bodies. The study results suggest that "feminizing chemicals" may be making their way into the Pennsylvania waterways.
Existing water treatment processes, which often involve naturally occurring bacteria in sewage sludge, can only remove as much as 94% of estrogen from untreated water, but what remains is still potent enough to cause damage to fish, and, researchers fear, humans. Although harmful estrogens often remain in water after treatment, this performance is not surprising, says Texas A&M Zachery Department of Civil Engineering Assistant Professor Kung-Hui (Bella) Chu, because conventional water treatment processes weren't designed to deal with estrogens.
Chu's research interests is in biological approaches to water quality problems. In wastewater treatment, this means using bacteria to clean up the wastewater. She and her colleagues are looking for bacteria to break down organic pollutants in water. Her main focus is on searching for wastewater bacteria that are capable of breaking down estrogens into harmless products
If she finds them, the estrogen degradation ability of these bacteria could be commercialized in engineered bioreactors to remove estrogens. Chu and her colleagues have found 14 different species of bacteria that can break down estrogens and are now trying to understand how these bacteria work to break down estrogens into harmless end products. All 14 bacteria break down 17ß-estradiol, a female reproductive hormone also commonly used in oral contraceptives, to a less-potent compound called estrone. Three of the 14 break down estrone further into harmless end products, and one does it particularly quickly.
Texas A&M researchers are trying to understand the enzymes and degradation pathways that the bacteria bacterium uses to destroy estrone. Their idea is to define the optimal growth conditions to promote the growth of these estrogen-degrading bacteria in biological wastewater treatment processes as a means to break down estrogens quickly and completely — and relatively inexpensively. "Adding such a bacterium could be an efficient and relatively inexpensive way to proactively avoid adverse health effects from estrogens," Chu says.
So basically I've been reading the bodybuilding.com forums, in the Misc section, and I came across something that is honestly scaring me right now. Male fish are becoming more feminine, in Boulder Creek female white suckers outnumber the males 5 to 1, and 50% of the males have female sex tissue.
A lot of people think there is so much estrogen in the water because of women that pee and take birth-control.
Honestly TL, I'm not sure what to think of this, I'm scarred shitless and I don't know too much about the subject, so anyone care to enlighten me? This is banned in Europe and being tested in Canada, and I hope it gets banned in the U.S. too.
I heard about this problem several years ago in the 7th grade. I think it has to do with our sanitation and water facilities not being able to filter out estrogen and the estrogen has infiltrated the reentering water.
Also read about xenoestrogens from plastics and other artificial compounds and phytoestrogens from plant sources. These are in so much food in low levels a lot more studies have been looking into this recently. Obvious wiki links below.
This is actually a pretty big issue, and not just in America.
I saw a documentary about this around a year ago, can't remember what it was called but they showed some pretty bad consequences of the estrogen.
For proof of this, the distance between the penis and the anus of males is decreasing. Among the fish this is really notable, among humans it's not as big but it will get more severe with time.
Interesting articles, but considering the fact that research is already being done into Bacteria to break down the estrogen I wouldn't overly panic. You're not going to turn into a woman in a few years by drinking some water. The bottled water thing is much more concerning, but I'm sure that the EU would put restrictions on the kinds of plastic etc. used if this is considered a bigger issue. Hopefully the US will follow suit.
On February 21 2011 04:07 bubO wrote: I dont get it this so fish is making us more femine? cause of this is estrogen thing?
and What is banned in europe..lol
Yes, molecules that act like estrogen in the human body might and probably are making you more feminine. Like estrogen-mimickers in soaps, detergents and plastics. Then the excess estrogen women pee out when they are on birth-control. Also, phyto-estrogen in soy might be a possible candidate also.
The estrogen-mimickers in soaps and detergents are supposedly banned in Europe. First time I ever heard of it.
This makes me wonder about the direction birth control is heading. I wonder what other effects these hormones have on the human body that we haven't seen yet... Humans probably aren't meant to be pumped up with all these chemicals. It would be nice if there was a 100% reversible vasectomy or tube tying. Then we only would have to worry about those damn STDs
Birth control is 100% safe. There are plenty of studies and a huge sample size to back this up. The "scary chemicals" argument doesn't really go anywhere.
Levels of estrogen in drinking water aren't high enough to produce a measurable effect on humans, or we would have found one. It isn't like all of the health agencies are ignoring this and only people reading this thread have the true knowledge.
On February 21 2011 04:48 iGrok wrote: Do you like fish sticks?
Hahaha I heart you for this.
Seriously though, I'm surprised that America allows the use of nonylphenols when Europe doesn't. From what I've seen when it comes to medicines and other manufactured drugs, America is a lot more restrictive.
I think it could be much worse.... like the water having too much Testosterone. Imagine if all women in the US turned butch. If that happens, I'm going back to Korea.
Birth control is 100% safe. There are plenty of studies and a huge sample size to back this up. The "scary chemicals" argument doesn't really go anywhere.
Levels of estrogen in drinking water aren't high enough to produce a measurable effect on humans, or we would have found one. It isn't like all of the health agencies are ignoring this and only people reading this thread have the true knowledge.
Sorry to disappoint you, but we have been aware of this for years. I have little to no knowledge in the field and am not an avid reader of newspapers or sth. but I have been aware of the fact that estrogen can (so far) not be cleaned out of the water supply for years. Maybe you just didn't get the memo ?
The "I don't know of it so it can't exist" argument seems pretty weak to me.
Herp derp, intelligent discussions on TL arent anything you can expect anymore, nothing but endless vomiting of south park jokes and people telling you to NOT DRINK FISH-WATER, not even knowing the first thing, yet still commenting. At first I thought that other thread about people not reading threads was overreacting, I was wrong.
He was actually right about fluoridation of water surprising. Look it up, fluoride replaces the calcium in your bones and can cause cavities if you are exposed to to much.
On February 21 2011 05:28 Catch]22 wrote: Herp derp, intelligent discussions on TL arent anything you can expect anymore, nothing but endless vomiting of south park jokes and people telling you to NOT DRINK FISH-WATER, not even knowing the first thing, yet still commenting. At first I thought that other thread about people not reading threads was overreacting, I was wrong.
Agreed, people like
On February 21 2011 04:07 bubO wrote: I dont get it this so fish is making us more femine? cause of this is estrogen thing?
and What is banned in europe..lol
On February 21 2011 03:52 Haemonculus wrote: Sry for pissing?
This is like the same bullshit about soy products making you gay, lol.
On February 21 2011 03:49 Nizaris wrote: Misleading title ? Do you drink the water the fish live in?
He was actually right about fluoridation of water surprising. Look it up, fluoride replaces the calcium in your bones and can cause cavities if you are exposed to to much.
He was actually right about fluoridation of water surprising. Look it up, fluoride replaces the calcium in your bones and can cause cavities if you are exposed to to much.
Too much can be bad for you? Really?
To quote a rant from a British comic sketch show "Well of course too much is bad for you, too much of anything is bad for you you blithering twat. That's what too much means! Too much water would be bad for you! Obviously, too much is precisely that quantity which is excessive! That's what it means! Jesus!".
He was actually right about fluoridation of water surprising. Look it up, fluoride replaces the calcium in your bones and can cause cavities if you are exposed to to much.
Though water fluoridation is very effective in reducing cavities and has no known and established health consequences.
Well hopefully after plaque enamel inhibiting toothpaste comes out in the next five years will stop seeing it in water, and soda. It's one thing to have it in tooth paste it is another to swallow it.
the no know consequences part is only for a pea-sized amount or like 1-2.0ppm which is generally the amount found in a cup of water
In Europe everyone has special toilets which evaporate women's piss in mid air before it reaches the water, and at the same time it does not work for men's piss, hence every one is more manlier in Europe compared to the U.S.
On February 21 2011 05:46 Macmacmacmac wrote: This is pretty terrifying, if it keeps up, god knows what will happen to men, we might grow nipples or something.
OH SHIT, I already haz 2's!!
Will stop drinking water from plastic bottles though and no more food stuffs in plastic containers. Ok that might be a bit drastic but cutting down on it anyways
As someone has said before, this information isn't really anything new, and I find it really misleading to quote the identification of fish in such a manner because their reproductive systems work in a completely different way. IIRC fish are commonly able to physiologically change their sex even in normal conditions depending on the sexual breakdown of their school or other factors such as HORMONES around them.
In other news, reptiles also change gender depending on temperature. In other other news, mammals aren't really susceptible in the same way. Calm down guys. You're going to remain guys.
Honestly, I'd be more concerned about the long term effects of all the different medications we take. The FDA isn't really big on extended longitudinal studies (studies on the same people over the course of several years).
Well, its no big surprise tbh, this has been known about for quite a long time. There are a lot of products that have estrogen like effects out there, that it's actually quite scary. I think not long ago they did even some research about shampoos and diff kinds cause males to actually grow more breast tissue :O.....
Sorry to disappoint you, but we have been aware of this for years. I have little to no knowledge in the field and am not an avid reader of newspapers or sth. but I have been aware of the fact that estrogen can (so far) not be cleaned out of the water supply for years. Maybe you just didn't get the memo ?
The "I don't know of it so it can't exist" argument seems pretty weak to me.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying the levels in drinking water have no measurable effect on humans.
Ripper: Mandrake? Mandrake: Yes, Jack? Ripper: Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water? Mandrake: Well, I can't say I have. Ripper: Vodka, that's what they drink, isn't it? Never water? Mandrake: Well, I-I believe that's what they drink, Jack, yes. Ripper: On no account will a Commie ever drink water, and not without good reason. Mandrake: Oh, eh, yes. I, uhm, can't quite see what you're getting at, Jack. Ripper: Water, that's what I'm getting at, water. Mandrake, water is the source of all life. Seven-tenths of this earth's surface is water. Why, do you realize that seventy percent of you is water? Mandrake: Uh, uh, Good Lord! Ripper: And as human beings, you and I need fresh, pure water to replenish our precious bodily fluids. Mandrake: Yes. (he begins to chuckle nervously) Ripper: Are you beginning to understand? Mandrake: Yes. (more laughter) Ripper: Mandrake. Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure-grain alcohol? Mandrake: Well, it did occur to me, Jack, yes. Ripper: Have you ever heard of a thing called fluoridation. Fluoridation of water? Mandrake: Uh? Yes, I-I have heard of that, Jack, yes. Yes. Ripper: Well, do you know what it is? Mandrake: No, no I don't know what it is, no. Ripper: Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?
Swine flu, bird flu, animals "randomly" dying in mass, 2012, anthrax, Chthulu coming back, and now estrogen in water.. Q:Where would the world be if it weren't for the impending disaster of the month? A: Probably outside enjoying themselves.
man girls dont fart but they sure pee ( sneaky girls)
altho i would freak out if i were an american DAMN you government "insert Conspiracy" trying to make me grow boobies for your own production research facilities.
The 'logic' of if you ingest only a little then it isn't THAT bad is so flawed. Ofcourse ingesting less of something that is just plain bad for you is LESS bad than ingesting MORE. But that still means it is BAD FOR YOU.
On February 23 2011 22:21 Scorcher2k wrote: Go figure that they wouldn't site the earlier stories relating to this... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/americans-have-twice-as-much-bpa-in-their-bodies-as-canadians/article1916197/ There was a lot of talk about this a couple months ago. They believe that this plastic could be a major reason as to why girls are hitting puberty at a younger and younger age as well as the average cup size in america going up a whole size over the last 20 years.
1. Obesity in the US has exploded the last decades. 2. Obesity includes lots of fat, which gives an increase in estrogen production. 3. This means fat people get bigger boobs and fat girls in to puberty earlier.
The major reason is that Americans are eating too much and moving around too little (just like most of the western world). This makes people fat. Fat people have bigger boobs (as I'm sure you've noticed). Also, the normal control for when girls hit puberty is the amount of fat they have. The fatter you are, the earlier you are going to reach the amount of fat needed to produce the amount of estrogen needed, ergo fat girls go in to puberty earlier.
BPA MIGHT have toxic effects on fetuses. There is basicly no concern that it has any effect on already born people (in the amounts measured in people today).
On February 23 2011 22:49 solidbebe wrote: The 'logic' of if you ingest only a little then it isn't THAT bad is so flawed. Ofcourse ingesting less of something that is just plain bad for you is LESS bad than ingesting MORE. But that still means it is BAD FOR YOU.
No. Your body is made to take care of small amount of toxic stuff all the time. Many things considered toxic are in fact needed for your survivial in small enough doses. Likewise, most things you eat normally and consider healthy is toxic in large enough doses (water for example, many vitamins etc.) and will kill you.
So that logic isn't flawed at all. It's perfectly reasonable.
On February 23 2011 22:21 Scorcher2k wrote: Go figure that they wouldn't site the earlier stories relating to this... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/americans-have-twice-as-much-bpa-in-their-bodies-as-canadians/article1916197/ There was a lot of talk about this a couple months ago. They believe that this plastic could be a major reason as to why girls are hitting puberty at a younger and younger age as well as the average cup size in america going up a whole size over the last 20 years.
1. Obesity in the US has exploded the last decades. 2. Obesity includes lots of fat, which gives an increase in estrogen production. 3. This means fat people get bigger boobs and fat girls in to puberty earlier.
The major reason is that Americans are eating too much and moving around too little (just like most of the western world). This makes people fat. Fat people have bigger boobs (as I'm sure you've noticed). Also, the normal control for when girls hit puberty is the amount of fat they have. The fatter you are, the earlier you are going to reach the amount of fat needed to produce the amount of estrogen needed, ergo fat girls go in to puberty earlier.
BPA MIGHT have toxic effects on fetuses. There is basicly no concern that it has any effect on already born people (in the amounts measured in people today).
On February 23 2011 22:49 solidbebe wrote: The 'logic' of if you ingest only a little then it isn't THAT bad is so flawed. Ofcourse ingesting less of something that is just plain bad for you is LESS bad than ingesting MORE. But that still means it is BAD FOR YOU.
No. Your body is made to take care of small amount of toxic stuff all the time. Many things considered toxic are in fact needed for your survivial in small enough doses. Likewise, most things you eat normally and consider healthy is toxic in large enough doses (water for example, many vitamins etc.) and will kill you.
So that logic isn't flawed at all. It's perfectly reasonable.
So then how do you explain skinny girls going into puberty sooner and having bigger boobs? Or would you just like to admit that you have no study or evidence to back up what you're saying what so ever.
On February 23 2011 22:21 Scorcher2k wrote: Go figure that they wouldn't site the earlier stories relating to this... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/americans-have-twice-as-much-bpa-in-their-bodies-as-canadians/article1916197/ There was a lot of talk about this a couple months ago. They believe that this plastic could be a major reason as to why girls are hitting puberty at a younger and younger age as well as the average cup size in america going up a whole size over the last 20 years.
1. Obesity in the US has exploded the last decades. 2. Obesity includes lots of fat, which gives an increase in estrogen production. 3. This means fat people get bigger boobs and fat girls in to puberty earlier.
The major reason is that Americans are eating too much and moving around too little (just like most of the western world). This makes people fat. Fat people have bigger boobs (as I'm sure you've noticed). Also, the normal control for when girls hit puberty is the amount of fat they have. The fatter you are, the earlier you are going to reach the amount of fat needed to produce the amount of estrogen needed, ergo fat girls go in to puberty earlier.
BPA MIGHT have toxic effects on fetuses. There is basicly no concern that it has any effect on already born people (in the amounts measured in people today).
On February 23 2011 22:49 solidbebe wrote: The 'logic' of if you ingest only a little then it isn't THAT bad is so flawed. Ofcourse ingesting less of something that is just plain bad for you is LESS bad than ingesting MORE. But that still means it is BAD FOR YOU.
No. Your body is made to take care of small amount of toxic stuff all the time. Many things considered toxic are in fact needed for your survivial in small enough doses. Likewise, most things you eat normally and consider healthy is toxic in large enough doses (water for example, many vitamins etc.) and will kill you.
So that logic isn't flawed at all. It's perfectly reasonable.
So then how do you explain skinny girls going into puberty sooner and having bigger boobs? Or would you just like to admit that you have no study or evidence to back up what you're saying what so ever.
"There are clear associations between childhood adiposity, as reflected in BMI, and early pubertal development." From the article "Childhood obesity and the timing of puberty" by M. Lynn Ahmed, Ken K. Ong, and David B. Dunger. Trends in Endocrinology & Metabolism Volume 20, Issue 5, July 2009, Pages 237-242
15 minutes of searching on PubMed. If you STILL want more scientific proof, I suggest you do the searching yourself.
The above quote is line with what I've been taught in class in med school. Large amounts of fat -> high estrogen by a mechanism that I no longer remember.
What evidence do you have for your claim that girls that are skinny also have had their onset of puberty come at earlier age? I assume you mean that girls today of weight x have earlier puberty than girls of say, 50 years ago, of the same weight x? I have seen no such data, and it's never been raised in class. Feel free to inform me though.
Tap water in germany is of very high quality and is strictly controlled, I never drink bottled water. The levels of chlorine are also very low, so it comes without the stench. Water in austria can be outright delicious though.
Do I look all rancid and clotted? You look at me, Jack. Eh? Look, eh? And I drink a lot of water, you know. I'm what you might call a water man, Jack - that's what I am. And I can swear to you, my boy, swear to you, that there's nothing wrong with my bodily fluids. Not a thing, Jackie.
On February 24 2011 00:18 MangoTango wrote: A lot of this is coming from people flushing their birth control pills (or other prescriptions) down the drain.
source? :p While I don't deny that that's done, I find it hard to believe that it's a significant source, especially since the article suggested other primary sources.
The plastic bottle stuff bothers me the most - I drink filtered water mostly, but plastic bottles are pretty much a staple of storing ... well... nearly any liquid. If chemicals which are chemically similar to estrogen are being leached out of the plastic with water bottles, I can only guess that it's likely happening with other beverages as well. Will have to start following this stuff more closely (and more scientifically than NBC covers many scientific topics.)
These stories seem pretty exaggerated - we look everywhere for the sources of our various health problems, but I think we could take advice from the thread in SC2 which basically says "it's you (not blizzard, not your cheesy opponents, it is you that you have to blame)."
It seems like every day I read something new that can give me cancer: power lines (this is old), cell phones, plastic cups, meat, etc. The thought that something could be in *everybody's* drinking water causing imperceptible yet incremental changes is just the perfect storm for an urban myth which can never be held to enough scientific scrutiny.
If this is really confusing its because I just threw it together after I saw the banning spree on the first page and had to edit my post
why is it so scary for everyone? I mean honestly. A small amount of estrogen prolly wont do anything, anyways. if fish are just starting to grow female organs, it would take a human many many generations. In sex changes they pump high levels of estrogen and it doesnt do to much to man. enlarged breasts and higher voice...
On February 21 2011 05:54 pred470r wrote: In Europe everyone has special toilets which evaporate women's piss in mid air before it reaches the water, and at the same time it does not work for men's piss, hence every one is more manlier in Europe compared to the U.S.
I have heard and read stuff on this issue before. A great deal of this 'pollution' comes from birth control medications, as well as from plastics, and it does almost certainly have an effect on people...though how much of an effect it's pretty hard to say conclusively. It could be linked to a lack of masculinity and drive in males, though other societal factors almost certainly have a lot to do with that as well; and it may also be linked to female developmental problems as well, though there's very little data in this area.
In any event, it's good to see this finally getting more mainstream scientific attention. Hopefully, this will lead to more research to pin down and assess the problem, and policy changes to do something about it. At the very least, it's highly deleterious effect on fish should be enough to get environmental groups on board.
In the meantime, no, it's not going to turn you into a woman. The main potential issues are developmental; though it may make adults slightly less 'manly' as well.
In any event, if you suddenly start feeling a strange attraction to parasols, frilly clothing, and the color pink, OR if you just want to get more manly in general, (1) try getting more exercise, and (2) start taking cold showers. Both of these have been proven to increase testosterone levels significantly.
Call me out on this, but what about the steroids used to grow our meat and veggies? Would these not have a counter-active effect of sorts? I have generally believed that that's the reason our society has gotten taller as a whole?
On February 24 2011 11:59 Rebornlife wrote: Call me out on this, but what about the steroids used to grow our meat and veggies? Would these not have a counter-active effect of sorts? I have generally believed that that's the reason our society has gotten taller as a whole?
The part about society getting taller could just be the related to the desirability, to the opposite sex, of height (obviously not everyone, just speaking generally); we've been using steroids for a few decades, but our species has been getting taller for centuries; I'm unsure if the increase in height has accelerated in recent years due to steroids, but it should definitely not be deemed the primary cause, if related at all.
Hopefully these fish just serve as a canary in the mineshaft and humans need much higher concentrations to have a significant effect on our health. I wonder if estrogen-related birth medication will be banned as a result of this research (looking at you, San Francisco).
I was so confused by this post, so I read the OP, the links, read more about it online, and then read the rest of the thread... I have come to 3 conclusions from what I see here.
While there are estrogen mimickers in many things, they are *supposed* to be regulated into trace amounts such that they have little to no effect. Only item I can think of that isn't regulated like that aside from birth control is bar soap (particularly ivory and dove).
As far as urine from women on birth control goes- that IS confusing to me... I didn't realize something like that could make that much of a difference unless they had a sudden surge in estrogen (like having a baby). This is why I'm confused that they are relating birth control to this.
My conclusions - unrelated to OP, more related to the responses I've read in the thread... + Show Spoiler +
1- Everybody *appears* to be either horribly homophobic or insecure with themselves ((ps- I'm not gay, but I'm not afraid of people who are, either...))
2- I drink A LOT of tap water; I have a high metabolism; I don't exercise at all beyond everyday work; I am 5'11" and 165lb ((this means I'm a pretty skinny dude)); --- I don't feel affected by this at all...
3- Acting manlier because you are scared of being effeminate will just make your brain become gender-confused and you will end up hypochondriac-ing your way into stress fat ((manboobs))... It's called a hysterical reaction ((I read this in a psych book in college, which I have since returned to the book store)).
One of our biology teacher told us about an interesting test that was performed on mice regarding Estrogen. They genetically modified mice to prevent the production of estrogen; they meant to identify the effects of estrogen on physical development. However, the most affected mice were not the female, but the men.
This could be a real problem... If the fish are all turning into girls, then they might not be able to reproduce... unless we pour testosterone into the water...
This needs to be fixed. We cannot have hormones in drinking water going unchecked, this could prove disastrous.
Yeah,whenever I begin hearing doomsday predictions about every-day items we use and consume in todays day and age, I become a little scepticle. There may be some truth to this, but to the extent of us all turning into women? Doubtful.
There is tons of stuff in water, we have cleaner water now then 100 years ago, seriously people use to drink water that had sewage in it. We piss out testosterone... That is why male body builders drink there own pee. Also people rub pee on there face for the minerals. There is always going to be stuff in water. If you are scared get a distiller like me . it boils your water and collects it 99.9% pure what I do is I buy minerals so I can put the minerals back in it, other wise you'll have just pure water and no good minerals that is in water. Don't be alarmed there is worse stuff in water like arsenic is high in well water, city water you get some sewage, and rain water ad very high hard calcium why people get bladder stones. All this can be cured with distilled water. Don't trust bottle water its tap water any ways. Too many things in this world to be worried about you'll be freaking out on everything. its the scientists job to be sensational, just like global warming lol the earth has a temperature! we can fix shit we are humans we are only good at breaking stuff and adapting.
I thought Egypt and Libya had all the abusive authorities until I saw all the banning on this thread.
On February 21 2011 03:39 Alexson wrote:I'm scarred shitless and I don't know too much about the subject
That's never a good combination. There's so little information it's nothing to get worked up about these types of stories come in the hundreds every day. You could find trace amounts of a hundred different more harmful chemicals than estrogen in 80% of rivers.
On February 24 2011 12:31 Roflhaxx wrote: What I fidn the most awesome about this thread is the fact that there were like 6? temp bans from all the first comments.
User was warned for this post
or the fact that half of them were serious comments eek!
idk how the study translates to humans drinking water, but it's pretty scary stuff.
I believe in the third link, they were testing estrogen content in mineral water in Germany. Are there any other studies from different locations? Is bottled water just as contaminated as tap water, or was it the plastic that was causing the contamination?
P.S. Tin Foil Hat Time: Estrogen decreasing bacteria slipped into nation's water supply as means of slowing down population growth.
I'm almost afraid to post in a thread with so much red. Almost.
From what I've heard a lot of research has been put into how bad plastic bottles (and plastic in general) are for you. I'm not sure I'm buying the "estrogen turning us all into girls" thing, and the amount in the water seems insignificant. But the stuff about plastic is worth paying attention to.
But maybe I should actually work out a bit just in case?