|
Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated. |
On March 18 2011 23:43 DragoonPK wrote:
The arab league is a goddamn joke. They really do nothing.
Ok, you're not getting this. Nobody is arguing that the Arab League can suddenly make actions legal or warranted. The thing is if the west just goes around toppling nations based on what they think is right, without regard to legitimacy in the rest of the world, it’s just going to breed a level of anti west resentment. Any future Libyas or Bahrains will be muddled in even more anti-American sentiment.
I get it. You have acess to the internet and speak english well so you understand that we're not that different in the end, but not everyone in the world has that luxury. To much of the world an "illigitimate" attack will look like the evil western imperialists intervening for money and power. Just the fact that the west is getting involved can turn public opinion.The Arab League can’t affect the morals of the situation, but they can give the west the legitimacy needed to intervene without causing more harm than good.
|
On March 19 2011 00:37 Duban wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 23:43 DragoonPK wrote:
The arab league is a goddamn joke. They really do nothing. Ok, you're not getting this. Nobody is arguing that the Arab League can suddenly make actions legal or warranted. The thing is if the west just goes around toppling nations based on what they think is right, without regard to legitimacy in the rest of the world, it’s just going to breed a level of anti west resentment. Any future Libyas or Bahrains will be muddled in even more anti-American sentiment. I get it. You have acess to the internet and speak english well so you understand that we're not that different in the end, but not everyone in the world has that luxury. To much of the world an "illigitimate" attack will look like the evil western imperialists intervening for money and power. Just the fact that the west is getting involved can turn public opinion.The Arab League can’t affect the morals of the situation, but they can give the west the legitimacy needed to intervene without causing more harm than good.
Yeah I see your point. What I mean is the actual arab league itself is like not really doing what its meant for. Like it usually doesnt agree on much and the stuff just ends up getting pushed away.
|
On March 19 2011 00:41 DragoonPK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 00:37 Duban wrote:On March 18 2011 23:43 DragoonPK wrote:
The arab league is a goddamn joke. They really do nothing. Ok, you're not getting this. Nobody is arguing that the Arab League can suddenly make actions legal or warranted. The thing is if the west just goes around toppling nations based on what they think is right, without regard to legitimacy in the rest of the world, it’s just going to breed a level of anti west resentment. Any future Libyas or Bahrains will be muddled in even more anti-American sentiment. I get it. You have acess to the internet and speak english well so you understand that we're not that different in the end, but not everyone in the world has that luxury. To much of the world an "illigitimate" attack will look like the evil western imperialists intervening for money and power. Just the fact that the west is getting involved can turn public opinion.The Arab League can’t affect the morals of the situation, but they can give the west the legitimacy needed to intervene without causing more harm than good. Yeah I see your point. What I mean is the actual arab league itself is like not really doing what its meant for. Like it usually doesnt agree on much and the stuff just ends up getting pushed away.
The same could be said of the UN more often then not but that's just the nature of modern democracy between semi-equal parties. Nothing gets done except stuff that is so threatening that it must be addressed. It's how the US system was built too.
|
People here actually think Gaddafi has declared a ceasefire, really? This is the attempt by a madman trying to buy time and get some sort of leverage.
If there is a ceasefire then why is Misurata still being shelled? Or why have his forces not pulled back in an attempt stop the fighting yet they haven't and heavy clashes are still ongoing?
|
He declared a ceasefire, yes. It's just words. It wouldn't sound too good if western jets bombarded Libyan anti-air despite a ceasefire being in effect, would it? Reports of Gaddafi troops still continuing hostilities against the rebels can easily be disregarded as false rumors spread by western secret services, Al Quaeda, drugged youth or what-have-you. It is a smart propaganda move by Gaddafi, albeit quite unconvincing.
|
On March 19 2011 00:41 DragoonPK wrote:
Yeah I see your point. What I mean is the actual arab league itself is like not really doing what its meant for. Like it usually doesnt agree on much and the stuff just ends up getting pushed away.
First of all, i am all the time blown away by the pure amount of nations represented on this site, it almost feels like a little UN to itself. It certainly adds to the flavour that we are all united in that we speak english and love gaming.
As for the arab league, I was wondering how much legitimacy it actually has among the common guys on the ground. After all, arabs are doing what they can to make much needed their leadership, and it is the same old leaderships that are chairing the league itself.
|
|
|
|
|
I love how Obama says the international community 'moved swiftly'. And how he stands for 'democratic values' everywhere.
Something tells me he won't be taking any questions.
Edit: Some pretty tough demands from Obama. Withdrawal from 'occupied' cities, restoring utilities to all of libya.
He's making some broader statements too, which are directed at the rest of the region.
|
Obama is going to issue a deadline....
|
"Ample warning was given to Gaddafi to stop his oppression, he chose to ignore his people and international community"
So was that a hint at a deadline...? What about the French who said, almost 24hrs ago, they could launch in several hours... UK Planes should already be at bases now.
|
Damn, he said ''Thank you very much'' and concluded just as I tuned in.  Anywhere you can read what he said?
|
On March 19 2011 03:36 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
"Ample warning was given to Gaddafi to stop his oppression, he chose to ignore his people and international community"
So was that a hint at a deadline...? What about the French who said, almost 24hrs ago, they could launch in several hours... UK Planes should already be at bases now.
Recent history suggests western nations won't actually start interventions until they have overwhelming force present. When they go in, they go in big. I'd say that they want to build up capacity for a while before enforcing (sunday-ish I'd say), unless Ghadaffi tries to finish the job right now and move straight for Benghazi.
Holgerius: Not yet. Ill link it when it becomes available.
|
Ok.
I'm having a hard time finding sites with good updates on the situation, the swedish newspapers are complete fucking trash so I can't turn to them.
|
Damn Gadaffi, nice move ahahahahaha.
Now it remains to be seen what happens. If Gadaffi breaks the ceasfire or not.
So as I missed the Obama speech, what does he mean remove his forces from occupied cities? This does not make any sense, rebels took them over from Gadaffi and he took them back??? so it's hardly occupying.
If Gadaffi declared ceasefire the west can't do anything nor the rebels until he breaks it. If any of the rebels/west break it, it will be bad for us and good for Gadaffi.
|
On March 19 2011 04:00 BeJe77 wrote:
Damn Gadaffi, nice move ahahahahaha.
Now it remains to be seen what happens. If Gadaffi breaks the ceasfire or not.
So as I missed the Obama speech, what does he mean remove his forces from occupied cities? This does not make any sense, rebels took them over from Gadaffi and he took them back??? so it's hardly occupying.
If Gadaffi declared ceasefire the west can't do anything nor the rebels until he breaks it. If any of the rebels/west break it, it will be bad for us and good for Gadaffi.
There is no ceasefire it is an attempt at Gaddafi to gain more time.
7:27pm
James Bays, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Benghazi, reports that there are scenes of celebration and relief in the city, as residents feel the tide is turning once more in their fight against Muammar Gaddafi's government.
Nevertheless, Bays also reported that violence has been reported from the city of Ajdabiyah, the gateway to Benghazi.
6:24pm
Speaking to Al Jazeera from Misurata, Mohamed Ali, a member of the opposition National Council in that city, describes a horrific scene. He says that shelling of the city has been ongoing continuously since about 2:00am.
Yes, there is no ceasefire in Misurata. Shells are landing all over the city right now, as we speak. I hope you can hear them in the background, I'll move closer to the window so you can hear them. The murderous dictator has attacked the city this morning and started shelling since 2 o'clock in the morning, started the attack at 8 o'clock from three directions - east, west and southwest. And they were shooting their way into the centre of the city, which they haven't managed.
"And they are still shelling the city as we speak ...
"I am in the medical centre right now. We have 18 civilian deaths, one of which is a two-and-a-half year old girl with her head cut off. It is brutal, murderous shelling of the Gaddafi regime. He talks with the international community about ceasefire, but he is trying to capture Misurata today at any cost to strengthen his bargaining position.
"Misurata is the last stronghold on the west coast, and he is doing Misurata like he did in Az Zawiyah. An utter destruction and carnage."
|
On March 19 2011 04:00 BeJe77 wrote:
Damn Gadaffi, nice move ahahahahaha.
Now it remains to be seen what happens. If Gadaffi breaks the ceasfire or not.
So as I missed the Obama speech, what does he mean remove his forces from occupied cities? This does not make any sense, rebels took them over from Gadaffi and he took them back??? so it's hardly occupying.
If Gadaffi declared ceasefire the west can't do anything nor the rebels until he breaks it. If any of the rebels/west break it, it will be bad for us and good for Gadaffi.
Except that he has already been breaking it, is breaking it at the moment, and Im fairly certain he'll continue to do so. I wouldn't believe anything coming out of the mouths of the libyan government sock puppets.
And by occupied cities he means cities where popular uprising began, but where they were countered by Libyan force. This is a call for regime change, Ghadaffi won't be allowed to remain in power.
It is true that if Ghadaffi truly declared a ceasefire, there would be no need for UN intervention, but as of now it seems very unlikely that Ghadaffi will actually do what his foreign minister says he will. It seems to me like an attempt to stall intervention while wiping out as much opposition as possible in the meanwhile.
For all of you wanting to read up on the last events/statements, I recommend both the guardian and the new york times live blogs:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/18/libya-military-action-live-updates
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/latest-updates-on-libya-and-arab-uprisings/
|
Ceasefire is an action, not a speech. The "I surrender suckers" crap isn't going to fly.
Now that the UN has started action, they're certainly not going to take a lie as an all-clear sign. Not while he's still beating the crap out of Benghazi.
|
Fighting has started in the village of Al Magrun just 50 KM from Benghazi. So much for the ceasefire Gaddafi said was in effect huh?
|
On March 18 2011 22:13 ayadew wrote:
Now he's threatening to bomb civilians in other countries.. desperate much ?
Does Lybia have missiles capable of striking the Europe?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
