On May 03 2012 11:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: I think the Media and some people are now trying to detract everything SpaceX does, all these delays as the inevitable failure of the Commercial Space program or even the death of an era not even making it past an idea.
We are literally on the line of a new era in Space travel and it's costs and feasibility. Imagine the pressure and axiety of the Engineers.
As much as I am disappointed by the delay, I think it is far more important that SpaceX does everything in their power to get a successful COTS2/3 launch and I can't imagine what the atmosphere must be like in Hawthorne. It's a shame that there is SO MUCH importance placed on what in reality is a standard test mission, but I think any success or failure will inevitably be overblown by the media. It is really disappointing to see the people in Congress and in public that are pushing for an end of the COTS and CCDev programs and yet want to fund the ridiculous NASA SLS launcher. Considering SpaceX is about 10 years old and, per Elon's statements, has spent roughly $1 billion (as a company from inception to planning to production to testing) is nothing short of amazing. To think that the Orion capsule alone has already cost $6 billion and won't be tested until 2014, SpaceX is without a doubt changing the game of aerospace. I am sincerely hoping for another flawless launch for two reasons: 1) Elon's post mission press conferences are awesome especially when the mission was a success and 2) The media storm surrounding the mission would be great for the aerospace industry and the entire COTS/CCDev program.
You have to be a little fair though, Space X is riding on the shoulders of giants, everything for them has been pioneered they aren't doing anything spectacular they are just sending stuff to low orbit we have been doing that since the beginning of the space race!
On the other hand NASA is trying to build something from relative scratch, yea they are using much of Apollo's "stuff" but most of the computers and hardware a bit outdated. Does it seem a bit pricey? I would completely agree with you.
But i wouldn't go out on a limb to say SpaceX is the next big thing.
My personal opinion on this? Theres no urgency of space anymore its not like the cold war where everyone thought the Soviets were going to drop bombs from space (lol). The only time there was really an outcry from the public was when the Shuttles blew up then people went back to their business.
There is no pressing reason for people to think about traveling to other planets other than for just the excitement of humans being on another moon like object. Almost everything we need to know about how humans react in space can be documented on the ISS. Anything we need like martian samples we can get from our rovers, its cheaper and more effective than sending humans.
I do love space and space exploration but more than anything but i believe we need to find a way to travel faster and cheaper.
Its economies of scale. The same reason that housing, small entrepreneurship, and other grassrots programs are more efficiently undertaken by the private sectors than the government. I am not sure if social welfare or a more progressive version of it is the solution, but projects like these can never be fully efficient under a bloated bureaucratic capitalistic government.
I'm actually okay with the budget cut in NASA for now because some of the less important things needed to be cut:
>Manned missions They're entirely a waste of money. The stupid level of redundancy in equipment and the billions of dollars that have to go into double, triple, and quadruple backups makes manned missions pointless. Let the private sector cut corners and do manned missions. We'll still get the data 98% of the time. As for the other 2%, sucks to be you when you find out you actually needed that fourth backup.
>Short-term goals Instead of rushing probes for one tiny mission, take 10-15 years and build multi-featured probes and low-cost launching equipment. Do something actually impressive like putting a small satellite network into orbit above Mars 20 years from now instead of one satellite that has a life span of 6 months.
That said, obviously the private sector thinks in even shorter terms than NASA has been, so I doubt SpaceX will do a damned thing beyond going to the ISS or the moon.
NASA has been a collosal waste of resources. A trillion + has been spent, and what exactly has resulted? A bunch of pretty pictures and tang, and maybe some new advances in weapons that can eliminate the human race. Epic fail. Shut it down.
On May 05 2012 10:24 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote: NASA has been a collosal waste of resources. A trillion + has been spent, and what exactly has resulted? A bunch of pretty pictures and tang, and maybe some new advances in weapons that can eliminate the human race. Epic fail. Shut it down.
Unless all the transformers/alien conspiracy theory are true. In which case, the government should disclose its secrets :p
>Short-term goals Instead of rushing probes for one tiny mission, take 10-15 years and build multi-featured probes and low-cost launching equipment. Do something actually impressive like putting a small satellite network into orbit above Mars 20 years from now instead of one satellite that has a life span of 6 months.
I think every scientist and engineer in NASA wants to do this, unfortunately, the powers that be radically change their goals every 4-8 years when they need the PR for elections.
On May 05 2012 10:08 dcemuser wrote: I'm actually okay with the budget cut in NASA for now because some of the less important things needed to be cut:
>Manned missions They're entirely a waste of money. The stupid level of redundancy in equipment and the billions of dollars that have to go into double, triple, and quadruple backups makes manned missions pointless. Let the private sector cut corners and do manned missions. We'll still get the data 98% of the time. As for the other 2%, sucks to be you when you find out you actually needed that fourth backup.
>Short-term goals Instead of rushing probes for one tiny mission, take 10-15 years and build multi-featured probes and low-cost launching equipment. Do something actually impressive like putting a small satellite network into orbit above Mars 20 years from now instead of one satellite that has a life span of 6 months.
That said, obviously the private sector thinks in even shorter terms than NASA has been, so I doubt SpaceX will do a damned thing beyond going to the ISS or the moon.
The overarching goal of SpaceX is eventually the manned mission to Mars. Short-term basis of businesses hardly applies to something like SpaceX. They aren't going to see a return on their investments for a long while.
On May 05 2012 10:24 TheGeneralTheoryOf wrote: NASA has been a collosal waste of resources. A trillion + has been spent, and what exactly has resulted? A bunch of pretty pictures and tang, and maybe some new advances in weapons that can eliminate the human race. Epic fail. Shut it down.
An absurd amount of technologies that people use everyday were developed by NASA and as a result of NASA.
The wikipedia page has a small list of some of the technologies NASA developed that were later turned into spin-off products http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off.
Not to mention human achievement. We've had men walk the surface of the moon, if that doesn't put a sense of wonder and hope for humanity into you, you're dead inside.
I really hope NASA gets closed down for a few decades/centuries. The problems we face on Earth are exponentially more important than any of NASA's endeavors. What the hell did landing a man on the moon accomplish? Oh right, nothing.
Curtail human population growth, stabilize the standard of living in 3rd world countries, improve education, give all groups equal rights, reduce crime, go Green, find an alternative and clean fuel source, employ the unemployed
-- ALL of these things should be prioritized and solved before we even think about exploring outer space.
On May 05 2012 10:56 xrapture wrote: I really hope NASA gets closed down for a few decades/centuries. The problems we face on Earth are exponentially more important than any of NASA's endeavors. What the hell did landing a man on the moon accomplish? Oh right, nothing.
Curtail human population growth, stabilize the standard of living in 3rd world countries, improve education, give all groups equal rights, reduce crime, go Green, find an alternative and clean fuel source, employ the unemployed
-- ALL of these things should be prioritized and solved before we even think about exploring outer space.
How about putting some of that bomb money towards these goals? I really can't believe people want to nix NASA when the DOD spends countless trillions every year.
DOD is way worse than NASA no doubt. At least NASA doesn't spend all it's time mudering pakistani children. xrapture : if you are really concerned about population you could do your part to bring it down by one.
On May 05 2012 10:56 xrapture wrote: I really hope NASA gets closed down for a few decades/centuries. The problems we face on Earth are exponentially more important than any of NASA's endeavors. What the hell did landing a man on the moon accomplish? Oh right, nothing.
Curtail human population growth, stabilize the standard of living in 3rd world countries, improve education, give all groups equal rights, reduce crime, go Green, find an alternative and clean fuel source, employ the unemployed
-- ALL of these things should be prioritized and solved before we even think about exploring outer space.
Wait what? I could understand someone saying a budget cut but shut down we may as well just stick out middle finger to the future and say well good luck! You might see the numbers NASA is using as a budget as "Big" But trust me more than 3x the amount of money NASA gets the Military/Department of Defense get.
NASA represents the future and what humans are capable of. Someone before made the post listing all the great things that have come from NASA.
What did landing on the moon accomplish? Nothing practicality scientifically wise you are right.
What it did accomplish was that we could go to the moon that it was physically capable, and we did this all within 10 years of space flight hell we had just gotten to lower earth orbit which barley means anything. Now we wanted to travel almost 500,000 miles to the moon and back? Alive?
We did it 6 more times no one ever died (in space) which is pretty fucking amazing considering how difficult it is.
You want to solve the problems of earth before we solve the problems of space exploration, i can understand where your coming from. What if i told you that should we theoretically solve the problem of hunger/war and humans managed to become a peaceful world then what? suddenly throw all our money into science and the problems are solved? If we had shut down NASA suddenly then what? Few scientist are left because NASA no longer is around it doesn't seem as a viable career. Who knows how many Albert Einsteins or Issac Newton's did we miss?
Ok well the last paragraph went a bit off track but i think my original point stands.
If you have 10 mins i would suggest you watch one of these videos specifically "The Gift Of Apollo"
An absurd amount of technologies that people use everyday were developed by NASA and as a result of NASA.
Not to question the merits of powdered lubricants but scientific research would have discovered all of these things anyway. It's just a fantastic waste of scarce resources to launch men into outer space when over a billion people around the world live in dire poverty. Instead of fanciful projects like sending some probe onto another planet that money could have been used to develop capital here on Earth and making people better off.
An absurd amount of technologies that people use everyday were developed by NASA and as a result of NASA.
Not to question the merits of powdered lubricants but scientific research would have discovered all of these things anyway. It's just a fantastic waste of scarce resources to launch men into outer space when over a billion people around the world live in dire poverty. Instead of fanciful projects like sending some probe onto another planet that money could have been used to develop capital here on Earth and making people better off.
It honestly astounds me every time someone says "Well just take money away from NASA and spend it on whats going on our world" Its an understandable concept but short sighted or misinformed
@ 3:12 seconds that is how much (roughly) we spend on NASA
If you want to make the world better try cutting down on the military budget..
With regard to human space flight Apollo has been mired in mediocrity for many decades. And nothing is going to change. Expect zero innovation from NASA in this area for at least the next 20 years.
An absurd amount of technologies that people use everyday were developed by NASA and as a result of NASA.
Not to question the merits of powdered lubricants but scientific research would have discovered all of these things anyway. It's just a fantastic waste of scarce resources to launch men into outer space when over a billion people around the world live in dire poverty. Instead of fanciful projects like sending some probe onto another planet that money could have been used to develop capital here on Earth and making people better off.
Scientific Research develops nothing unless it has a need to develop it: the space program provided a need for this type of tech to be developed.
Further, a number of major technologies that aren't on that list, like GPS, man-made commercial satellites, cell phones, etc. wouldn't exist without NASA.
On May 05 2012 10:56 xrapture wrote: I really hope NASA gets closed down for a few decades/centuries. The problems we face on Earth are exponentially more important than any of NASA's endeavors. What the hell did landing a man on the moon accomplish? Oh right, nothing.
Curtail human population growth, stabilize the standard of living in 3rd world countries, improve education, give all groups equal rights, reduce crime, go Green, find an alternative and clean fuel source, employ the unemployed
-- ALL of these things should be prioritized and solved before we even think about exploring outer space.
An absurd amount of technologies that people use everyday were developed by NASA and as a result of NASA.
Not to question the merits of powdered lubricants but scientific research would have discovered all of these things anyway. It's just a fantastic waste of scarce resources to launch men into outer space when over a billion people around the world live in dire poverty. Instead of fanciful projects like sending some probe onto another planet that money could have been used to develop capital here on Earth and making people better off.
So you guys want USA to stop spending their tax money on space space related research to feed people from another country that wasn't their problem to start with? Sure charity and donation is good thing, but carrying the burden of someone else's is different.
There will always be problem need to solve before space travel, trying to solve them all before hand is just unrealistic. Reason people are starving is because the inability to feed them (duh), as soon you solved this, population will continue to grow, you will run into other type of resource problems. You will see the infinite amount of tasks being inserted in front, you'll get no where. Just imagine games are programmed this way, as soon you give unit an order, you'll not able to do anything else until that is carried out.
If you look back in human history, you'll see problems persists and never go away, reason we are here now is because we do things in parallel, and on the way new technologies often solve problems in other areas. No one knows what the future will bring, maybe we will solve world hunger another way instead of just throwing more money at it like what you're suggesting.
Last but not least is don't expect other countries to follow suit. It would be other major power's best interests that NASA shuts down, who wouldn't want to dominate space tech and the space frontier.
If you look back in human history, you'll see problems persists and never go away, reason we are here now is because we do things in parallel, and on the way new technologies often solve problems in other areas. No one knows what the future will bring, maybe we will solve world hunger another way instead of just throwing more money at it like what you're suggesting.
Except that... hold up a second here... the problem HAS gone away in western nations. Your malthusian argument simply doesn't hold water. If you understand how we in the West have solved the problem of hunger (industrialization & the free enterprise system) you will how the third world can do the same. 'The Conquest of Poverty' by Henry Hazlitt explains this in great detail.
EPT
