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Headphone enthusiast thread! - Page 21

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Loomies
Profile Joined July 2010
United States645 Posts
December 09 2010 03:36 GMT
#401
^^^
blatant advertisement? join date is just now and first post is a shady dealer
JSH
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States4109 Posts
December 09 2010 03:45 GMT
#402
On December 09 2010 12:36 Loomies wrote:
^^^
blatant advertisement? join date is just now and first post is a shady dealer


lol

so is anyone going to buy crappy $1 dollar earbud in a headphone enthusiast thread
"It's called a miracle because it doesn't happen" - Just like my chances of reaching C- on ICCUP
Gatsbi
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1134 Posts
December 09 2010 04:03 GMT
#403
correction, 1 CENT earbuds, how crazy!! lmao
"IF WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW IS MORE THAN WHAT YOU HAVE KNOWN. THEN YOU HAVE NOT KNOWN ANYTHINIG YET." - Rev Kojo Smith
HighDistortion
Profile Joined August 2010
United States52 Posts
December 09 2010 04:25 GMT
#404
Hey, so let me ask you guys what would be the best pair of headphones in the 100-150 price range?
ieatkids5
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States4628 Posts
December 09 2010 04:44 GMT
#405
depends on what you're looking for. what's best for someone depends on his or her taste/needs.
sl0w
Profile Joined July 2010
United States447 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-09 04:48:20
December 09 2010 04:47 GMT
#406
On December 09 2010 13:25 HighDistortion wrote:
Hey, so let me ask you guys what would be the best pair of headphones in the 100-150 price range?


Sennheiser HD595...but a good pair of headphones is worthless without a decent sound card fyi.
Blackhawk13
Profile Joined April 2010
United States442 Posts
December 09 2010 07:31 GMT
#407
someone should educate us on some of this terminology like mids, highs (I assume volume? lol), amps, dacs, which headphones would need them, etc

^__v
Barett
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada454 Posts
December 09 2010 08:28 GMT
#408
Wow i wish I could get those Sennheiser HD595's shipped to Canada at that price. Such a amazing deal. Stupid Canadian prices on everything.
Gym, Video Games, Laundry.
Fyodor
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada971 Posts
December 09 2010 09:03 GMT
#409
On December 09 2010 10:35 Myrmidon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 19:49 Fyodor wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:33 Myrmidon wrote:
On December 07 2010 13:56 Fyodor wrote:
On December 06 2010 09:22 Demi9OD wrote:
On November 13 2010 12:50 Fyodor wrote:
On November 13 2010 12:44 Demi9OD wrote:
Weird this thread just popped up and I saw the DT990s I bought last week on the first page. I was using audio technica ath-m50's for about two years prior, but I don't need a closed design any more (no roommate) and I found their clamp force fatiguing after a couple hours. The 32ohm version works just fine out of my Soundblaster X-Fi but this NuForce Icon uDAC-2 has been tempting me.

I'd recommend the Audio-GD Sparrow. Wasn't a fan of the first uDAC. Don't think it would well with the DT990 either.


I ended up getting a Asus Xonar Essence STX to replace my X-Fi Music, instead of a dedicated DAC/Amp. I really like the Dolby Headphone setting for FPS gaming and movies, and have been having fun doing op-amp swapping to find my perfect audio signature for music. So far the OPA op-amps have been my favorites, OP2137 at the moment. I have tried 49720NA, LT1358 and LT1057, and OPA2137.

lol I think my Audio-GD came with an OP2137. It's pretty decent. When I finally let my discrete opamp burn in there was no turning back though. Talking about OPA Earth here.


Forgive my ignorance, but what's the technical explanation behind op amp swapping? Or any rationale at all? I have a degree in EE and am working on another, but my specialty has nothing to do with electronics, so I only have limited knowledge in this area.

If you look at the SNR, THD, etc. of the expensive (well, above a couple dollars a piece is expensive as far as op amps goes) op amps used for audio buffers and current drivers, they're specced way beyond the threshold of human hearing. Slew rate, max voltage swing, etc. are usually more than sufficient, and the transient response looks great too. Many of the op amps used are actually often intended for other applications that have much more stringent requirements than audio. e.g. a lot of them pass frequencies much higher than 20kHz.

Granted, those specs are what the manufacturer is listing under their controlled testing environment and implementation. Maybe performance is different in a different circuit, like in a complete amplifier device? If the exact implementation is that important (I wouldn't think it would be with many classes of op amps), wouldn't the amp circuit be designed for the stock op amp? Then wouldn't the circuit be suboptimal for a different op amp you are switching to?

Or maybe humans are good at hearing certain types of transient distortions that don't show up in the traditional canned response and distortion tests listed on the specs?

(Another, much simpler explanation maybe would involve concepts like placebo and group think, but I'm not that quick to dismiss something I don't have much experience or knowledge of.)

That's an excellent question, probably the best question asked in my thread so far. I can't tell you much about the science but opamps do sound different from one another.

Generally you want an opamp with a flat frequency response from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz, audio is extremely sensitive to that. You also take out opamps with power/bandwidth ratings that aren't suitable for audio applications and you're not left with that many choices. Chips that are left have different SNR, frequency response, input/output impedance etc and you have to find which one works for you. Opamp switching is more about altering flavor though, some opamps might be more popular in audio despite that they don't have a perfectly flat frequency response.

Did my best to talk to you about opamps but I'm not an engineer, you can tell me if I'm being a fool here, I'd be glad.


Well, even if the requirements do rule out 99% (arbitrary figure--I have no idea how much it really is) of op amps, 1% still represents lots and lots of op amps.

Anyhow, the question is not about why certain op amps are unsuitable. Many general-purpose or specialized op amps would sound absolutely terrible, because of unacceptable distortion levels, poor characteristics close to 0V, not being able to supply enough current, not having enough voltage swing, having too low slew rate, or whatever, as you say.

In any case, the input and output impedance, gain-bandwidth product, SNR, IMD, output characteristics, operating range, etc. should be sufficient for a group of op amps that we'll call "suitable for audio."

The question is about why one should favor one suitable-for-audio op amp over another. If you look at the specs, these devices (e.g. LM4652) are getting THD+N at around 0.0001% with reasonable output levels and loads. If there's another op amp with a THD+N at around 0.0001% (or even at 0.005% for that matter), are you going going to be able to hear the difference between those two? It's not just THD+N that looks ludicrously good beyond the threshold of audibility, but all relevant stats that are reported.

Think about it this way: let's say we have one device that reproduces a signal that is 99.999% true to the original in some sense. If you have another device that reproduces a signal that is 99.999% true to the original, why would you want the first device over the second, or the second one over the first? How do you distinguish between the two? Even if the 0.001% "inaccuracy" occurs differently in the two devices, aren't they both already so close it doesn't matter?

The above is a gross oversimplification, of course--just used as an explanation.

I understand what you're saying and looking at the oversimplified specs it does seem silly to compare opamps that are theoretically perfect, but you're arguing within a vacuum. If you can show me that there exists at least a few ideal opamps with flawless specs like we enumerated then we'll have made some work here.

I know these are well regarded opamps for a headphone amplifier or DAC:

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa627.pdf

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa134.pdf

Can't make heads or tails of these spec sheets though. Don't how perfect they are (or aren't) for audio.
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Fyodor
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada971 Posts
December 09 2010 09:13 GMT
#410
On December 09 2010 16:31 Blackhawk13 wrote:
someone should educate us on some of this terminology like mids, highs (I assume volume? lol), amps, dacs, which headphones would need them, etc

^__v

mids and highs refer to musical note regions. Highs are typically cymbals, glass shattering, etc. While lows are things like bass drums on a drum kit or notes from a bass guitar. Headphones don't always treat those regions equally.

When it comes to amps, headphones with high power requirements will need them. All headphones benefit from the clean signal a quality amp will offer, however.

For DACs, all headphones need a good DAC. They determine the quality of the signal to be amplified so the better it is, the better the sound you get in your headphones.
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Humbug
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States264 Posts
December 09 2010 09:18 GMT
#411
Shoutout to ieatkids5 for his recommendations of MEElectronics M9 IEM's. I was a bit doubtful at first, but after burning them in, they sound excellent for their price (~$15.00) and sound equal to, if not better, than IEM's I've bought for twice that price. Really bassy, but that's fine by me. Let's just hope they pass the test that seems to plague all IEM's though: life span.
What is an angel? Show me an angel and I shall paint one
Zax19
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Czech Republic1136 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-09 09:30:08
December 09 2010 09:25 GMT
#412
On November 14 2010 09:14 Gridlock wrote:
Sennheiser HD-25's !!

I DJ all over, perfect for that but also awesome for any type of audio.
Closed, but not heavy on the head and comfortable when worn for for hours on end. All parts are replaceable too, but I think that's normal for Senn's?

Oops spoiler cos I'm noob and can't resize...
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


+1 for the awesomness. I have to say that for me the sound improvement from cca 100 USD to 230 USD isn't that big, but what you pay for is simply the "physical" quality. I don't DJ but I wanted portable headphones for commuting....
At first I didn't have spare money and I had to buy ATH-SJ5s. The sound quality is perfectly ok, but the headband isn't "cushioned", it stretches out and stays stretched, and the jack broke pretty fast.

I was a bit mad that I had to pay so much more just for the "physical" quality, but what you get is a really good design. I love the fact that after using them you can sometimes notice a "twitch" as they "shrink" back, the clamping is weaker than after the purchase, but it's still decent.

PS: At GSL and other tournaments I've seen a special pieace of HD-25s with a microphone, yay! :D
Really Blizz, really? - Darnell
Zax19
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Czech Republic1136 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-09 09:29:48
December 09 2010 09:28 GMT
#413
(damn I wanted to edit a typoo and I quoted instead, feel free to delete this x)
Really Blizz, really? - Darnell
Fyodor
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada971 Posts
December 09 2010 09:31 GMT
#414
On December 09 2010 18:25 Zax19 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2010 09:14 Gridlock wrote:
Sennheiser HD-25's !!

I DJ all over, perfect for that but also awesome for any type of audio.
Closed, but not heavy on the head and comfortable when worn for for hours on end. All parts are replaceable too, but I think that's normal for Senn's?

Oops spoiler cos I'm noob and can't resize...
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


+1 for the awesomness. I have to say that for me the sound improvement from cca 100 USD to 230 USD isn't that big, but what you pay for is simply the "physical" quality. I don't DJ but I wanted portable headphones for commuting....
At first I didn't have spare money and I had to buy ATH-SJ5s. The sound quality is perfectly ok, but the headband isn't "cushioned", it stretches out and stays stretched, and the jack broke pretty fast.

I was a bit mad that I had to pay so much more just for the "physical" quality, but what you get is a really good design. I love the fact that after using them you can sometimes notice a "twitch" as they "shrink" back, the clamping is weaker than after the purchase, but it's still decent.

PS: At GSL and other tournaments I've seen a special pieace of HD-25s with a microphone, yay! :D

yeah, the HD-25 is pretty popular for broadcasters.
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
ieatkids5
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States4628 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-09 09:55:04
December 09 2010 09:49 GMT
#415
On December 09 2010 18:13 Fyodor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2010 16:31 Blackhawk13 wrote:
someone should educate us on some of this terminology like mids, highs (I assume volume? lol), amps, dacs, which headphones would need them, etc

^__v

For DACs, all headphones need a good DAC. They determine the quality of the signal to be amplified so the better it is, the better the sound you get in your headphones.

No they don't, only certain headphones need them. And a number of others do benefit, but need? I don't think so. And then many more don't need them at all.

On December 09 2010 18:18 Humbug wrote:
Shoutout to ieatkids5 for his recommendations of MEElectronics M9 IEM's. I was a bit doubtful at first, but after burning them in, they sound excellent for their price (~$15.00) and sound equal to, if not better, than IEM's I've bought for twice that price. Really bassy, but that's fine by me. Let's just hope they pass the test that seems to plague all IEM's though: life span.

Glad you like them. They're the IEMs I recommend the most for entry-level enthusiasts because of their great value. "Good" sound signature - usually people going from stock buds to a better pair want more bass, more clarity, and nice highs; the M9 gets you all of that for a cheap price. It also comes with all sorts of good stuff - decent amount of tips, shirt clip, carrying case. And the build quality is great - solid barrels and high quality cables. Try finding a better deal for $15. Or more recently, $10 - MEElec just ended their deal for $10 M9s.
Barett
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada454 Posts
December 09 2010 10:28 GMT
#416
I am going to be buying a Sennheiser HD595 from amazon for 150$. I dont know much about sound systems so I was wondering what Sound Card should I get with it?
I see other people in this Thread have a Asus Essence ST with this card. Is there any cheaper Sound Cards I could get that would still support this card well?

As for a AMP what exactly does it do, and do I need it?
Thanks for the help.
Gym, Video Games, Laundry.
Fyodor
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada971 Posts
December 09 2010 10:44 GMT
#417
On December 09 2010 18:49 ieatkids5 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2010 18:13 Fyodor wrote:
On December 09 2010 16:31 Blackhawk13 wrote:
someone should educate us on some of this terminology like mids, highs (I assume volume? lol), amps, dacs, which headphones would need them, etc

^__v

For DACs, all headphones need a good DAC. They determine the quality of the signal to be amplified so the better it is, the better the sound you get in your headphones.

No they don't, only certain headphones need them. And a number of others do benefit, but need? I don't think so. And then many more don't need them at all.



I don't think you have any idea what a DAC does. Headphones can't make any sound without a DAC.

I'm sorry but there's no discussion to be had here, the better the signal to the headphone, the better the sound. I can't imagine a headphone so terrible that wouldn't react to a better, cleaner signal.
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Fyodor
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada971 Posts
December 09 2010 10:58 GMT
#418
On December 09 2010 19:28 Barett wrote:
I am going to be buying a Sennheiser HD595 from amazon for 150$. I dont know much about sound systems so I was wondering what Sound Card should I get with it?
I see other people in this Thread have a Asus Essence ST with this card. Is there any cheaper Sound Cards I could get that would still support this card well?

As for a AMP what exactly does it do, and do I need it?
Thanks for the help.

A sound card is collection of audio features that includes, among others, a DAC and an amp.

It's an inferior solution to a dedicated DAC and amp but it still works ok.

As for your question, an amp "amplifies" an analog signal to your headphones so it can move the diaphragm. A bad amp will introduce noise and distortion to the signal.
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Barett
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada454 Posts
December 09 2010 11:20 GMT
#419
Thanks that is great info, got any suggestions for a Sound Card I should get?
I don't wanna spend more money then I need too, but I also want a good enough card that my Headphones will play at their up most potential.
Gym, Video Games, Laundry.
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
December 09 2010 11:23 GMT
#420
Do earphones count? (I hope so)

Hey guys I want a permanent new replacement for my Iphone Earphone
Yes I know Iphone earphone fucking sucks asssss and has a lifespan of 1.5 months. The only reason why I like the iphone earphones is that you're able to use the mic, which is great because I'm a lazy man

Can you guys give me a recommendation? I've tried some 3rd Party Iphone Earphones from china but the sound quality is horrendous. I just really like the whole mic+volume up/down part.
dats racist
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