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Thread Rules 1. This is not a "do my homework for me" thread. If you have specific questions, ask, but don't post an assignment or homework problem and expect an exact solution. 2. No recruiting for your cockamamie projects (you won't replace facebook with 3 dudes you found on the internet and $20) 3. If you can't articulate why a language is bad, don't start slinging shit about it. Just remember that nothing is worse than making CSS IE6 compatible. 4. Use [code] tags to format code blocks. | ||
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phar
United States1080 Posts
I think Compute Engine gets you a more standard programming environment, instead of being constrained to app engine apis (limit you to blobstore, megastore, etc with their custom api). Whatever floats your boat though, if it's just to play around, then nothing wrong with app engine. I think AWS also has a free tier, could check that out. | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
On May 10 2015 04:35 phar wrote: App engine should have free tier everywhere. I dunno if app engine is 100% free anymore, but it should be either that or close to it. It does, but only for business users. You can't order it from a European billing address without providing a VAT number. At least as far as I can tell, haven't tried all EU counties. That's why I was asking. | ||
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phar
United States1080 Posts
First guess I'd have at this point is to start hosting in US (which will suck latency-wise), and then figure out how to get it moved: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19467532/hosting-the-application-in-europe-without-a-premier-account I don't work on this stuff so I don't know how it's supposed to work - if you're stuck ping me via PM and I can try to find more. | ||
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Deathmanbob
United States2356 Posts
What is a good way to learn C? I have been just kind of dicking around with HTML, CSS, Java script, Ruby, and been playing around in Unity. I want to stop dicking around and actually learn this for real, and from what I have heard from people, that means learning C. Is there a good book out there to learn this from? Thanks | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On May 11 2015 06:33 Deathmanbob wrote: Hey all, I am pretty noob to this but had a few questions. What is a good way to learn C? I have been just kind of dicking around with HTML, CSS, Java script, Ruby, and been playing around in Unity. I want to stop dicking around and actually learn this for real, and from what I have heard from people, that means learning C. Is there a good book out there to learn this from? Thanks There's plenty of languages you can learn the basics in. When most people say to learn C, I imagine they probably more mean to learn an imperative language, like C, C++, C#, or Java. As a person who does a lot of C programming, I would maybe suggest starting with something a little more forgiving like C++ or C# (with C++ you can still do mostly C in terms of actual programming, but there's a few areas where things can be simplified so they are easier to understand when first learning the basics of programming like IO streams and new and std::strings). C is a bit of a tricky language to learn because you have to do a lot of the memory management yourself, which is simplified in C++ (thanks to new) and not something you have to worry about explicitly when starting in Java or C#. However, if you do have the patience, C is a great language to start programming in because there is no magic to it. You have to handle almost everything yourself so you are forced to learn a lot of different concepts in programming. So if you think you are up for it, maybe give it a go but don't be afraid to go with a language that might be a bit more beginner friendly. As for C books, Brian Kernighan and Dennis Ritchie's "The C Programming Language" is by far my favourite book I've read on C (It's also the go-to book for many other people. It's a classic for a reason). It's an older book and some of the programming techniques they use in it might seem weird in a modern context but I still think it's the best way to learn C. They go through almost everything you would need to know to do C programming, and teach you important general concepts in programming like how strings work and things like that. Study the examples. They might seem a bit obtuse at first but they are actually really good and you can extract lots of neat tricks from them. | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On May 11 2015 10:59 Ben... wrote: There's plenty of languages you can learn the basics in. When most people say to learn C, I imagine they probably more mean to learn an imperative language, like C, C++, C#, or Java. That last bit doesn't make sense, with c# and java being pure OO langauges, I think something like php would be alot better then c# or java, since you can code C like stuff in php. That is without types and pointers thou. I think if you want to learn C the best way is just to do C. It will expose most low level stuff, if its usefull or not its debatble, however it made understanding datastructures alot easier for me. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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fmod
Cayman Islands330 Posts
On May 11 2015 06:33 Deathmanbob wrote: Hey all, I am pretty noob to this but had a few questions. What is a good way to learn C? I have been just kind of dicking around with HTML, CSS, Java script, Ruby, and been playing around in Unity. I want to stop dicking around and actually learn this for real, and from what I have heard from people, that means learning C. Is there a good book out there to learn this from? Thanks Never read it myself, but most people recommend K&R C (2nd edition). I can also recommend using linux/unix if you want to use C, so you can learn about makefiles and the basics of compiling, linking etc. These are important skills for any serious programmer (and you said you are for real!). In practice, just knowing the language C is not enough - it's almost equally as important to learn to use the compilers / tools for any real work. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On May 12 2015 05:33 ZenithM wrote: PHP should never be a first language! Nor a second! Nor...wait a minute... PHP is a language you should only learn when being paid to do so. On May 12 2015 05:26 sabas123 wrote: That last bit doesn't make sense, with c# and java being pure OO langauges, They may be ideal for object oriented programming but it is rather trivial to treat either in a simple fashion for doing bare bones basic learning (i.e.: for basic learning you just create a class and do all of your work within it. In most programming classes structures and classes/objects are introduced fairly early so the whole OO issue isn't a big deal for long). | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On May 12 2015 05:33 ZenithM wrote: PHP should never be a first language! Nor a second! Nor...wait a minute... Why not? If I want to get a website for myself, then even though I don't know PHP, it seems like C syntax so it's easier to pick up. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17765 Posts
1. Wide range of options - you can do it the imperative way, pure OOP and with latest iterations you can even do functional programming in it. You get a lot of potential here and can expand your repertoire as you go along (and not be forced into one particular mode). As you get more experienced you can mix and match the styles to better suit your needs. It's also pretty powerful this way since you can use the best paradigm for the job at hand. Sure, PHP used to suck but right now it's getting cleaner, slicker, faster and more powerful with each iteration (going from PHP 5.3 to 5.4 can give your apps up to 40% performance boost). 2. Very good documentation and plenty of resources - PHP is very well documented. There's also plenty of people doing it so you get access to tons of resources online, stackoverflow questions and what not. Worst thing you can do when learning programming is trying to go for some niche, obscure language where you have to figure everything out yourself, documentation is lacking or incomplete etc. 3. Plenty of work - you can actually pick and choose even if you're not a senior developer in PHP. I'm not the most experienced programmer around but I know that if I lost my job for any reason (not liking the atmosphere at the company for example) I can get a new one within a week tops. Hell, I'm receiving 2-3 job offers each day and I don't even live in the most populated area/very big city. There's a reason why the vast majority of the web runs on PHP (82% according to the recent survey). Sure, you can learn some cool language like Ruby, but finding a job will be a lot harder. Of course, if you don't want to do web-based apps (back-office stuff included) then PHP is a lot less appealing. Sure, you can do some fancy scripts instead of using one of the compiled languages (or even Python), but it won't be the same. Personally I find nothing wrong with starting to learn programming with PHP (even though I've started with C myself). | ||
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Rotodyne
United States2263 Posts
 I like it | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Today you can start programming with more modern, more expressive and more market-attractive languages than PHP, PHP is a recommendation you would have made 10 years ago, today it just perpetuates languages that should just be left alone. Hell, even advising for Javascript is better. Also, a fun thing to do when someone says "Said language sucks" is to look-up "said language sucks" on google and quickly see at a glance what comes out of it. There are good articles on why PHP "isn't all that great". | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17765 Posts
On May 12 2015 15:55 ZenithM wrote: There are good articles on why PHP "isn't all that great". There are good articles on why ANY programming language "isn't all that great"  But seriously, PHP development is a mess and thanks to that it kind of blows if you don't know what you're doing (and sometimes it blows even if you do). I guess there's a positive side to that too, since in order to write good code in PHP you have to: a) know the language, it's pitfalls and specs b) think about what you're actually doing in order to not screw up (this involves writing shorter, simpler and better code in general - the way to avoid errors) | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I guess it already requires kind of a broad view on what programming languages are though... I don't resent PHP, it's ugly but it did help me get some small jobs done back in the day :D. It's just that I wouldn't recommend it. Like I wouldn't recommend Java, even though I teach it. I like C though, not the most expressive to start with but it really helps understanding the machine. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17765 Posts
On May 12 2015 21:22 ZenithM wrote: Yes, but you can read the articles and see for yourself if you want to bother tackling this or that specific difficulty of the language or you're better off with other difficulties that you can bear :D I guess it already requires kind of a broad view on what programming languages are though... I don't resent PHP, it's ugly but it did help me get some small jobs done back in the day :D. It's just that I wouldn't recommend it. Like I wouldn't recommend Java, even though I teach it. I like C though, not the most expressive to start with but it really helps understanding the machine. Let's take one such article as an example: http://whydoesitsuck.com/why-does-php-suck/ It's actually a decent article, well written, well structured and showing some of the really nasty stuff you can run into with PHP. The problem I find with most of those "this and that ain't so good" articles, one above included, is that they can seriously discourage someone from trying to learn a language even though problems it lists are either easy to avoid or very niche (in over a year of working professionally with PHP I haven't used 90% of the functions listed as scary in the article for example). I still find such articles useful for people who actually know what's being talked about, since you can then avoid stupid and/or hard to track mistakes (like JS type system, variable hoisting or its abstract equality comparison algorithm). But for people unfamiliar with the language? I'd skip any and all "why is it not good" articles, they're mostly written by biased people anyway. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
It could use a bit of Perl's "use strict;" It's a good language if you are looking for work. It's a bad language if you want to have fun programming stuff more advanced than your basic website. | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On May 12 2015 23:57 Morfildur wrote: It's a good language if you are looking for work. It's a bad language if you want to have fun programming stuff more advanced than your basic website. I think saying its bad is alittle overboard, considering it can do so much. but the inconsistancy in the names of php functions is.... insane. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17765 Posts
On May 13 2015 01:34 ZenithM wrote: Haha I gotta say, one of my main problems with PHP was with the comparison operators. It's not like you make typing mistakes often, but the simple thought that this problem is always there lying around is chilling :D. That's one of the reasons why modern frameworks enforce good coding style - typehints, strict comparisons etc. Weak comparison operator "==" is actually useful sometimes, since there is no static typing in PHP you can use it (and it's really the only viable way for using it in my opinion) if you want to test a variable that might be undefined (null) without having to write a lot of separate tests for everything - if ($var != null) deals with 0, false, empty arrays, empty strings, non-objects as well as null in one go, but I guess you could also use empty($var) for that which is even better since it doesn't emit a notice level debug msg if the variable hasn't been defined | ||
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