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The Big Programming Thread - Page 606

Forum Index > General Forum
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Thread Rules
1. This is not a "do my homework for me" thread. If you have specific questions, ask, but don't post an assignment or homework problem and expect an exact solution.
2. No recruiting for your cockamamie projects (you won't replace facebook with 3 dudes you found on the internet and $20)
3. If you can't articulate why a language is bad, don't start slinging shit about it. Just remember that nothing is worse than making CSS IE6 compatible.
4. Use [code] tags to format code blocks.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17969 Posts
March 18 2015 01:28 GMT
#12101
On March 18 2015 10:22 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2015 08:46 Zocat wrote:
On March 18 2015 07:42 obesechicken13 wrote:
I imagined you'd learn a lot about web from CS.


Why? web is a subgroup of software engineering and you can have a cs degree with a minimum of courses in SE.

The 1st half of my 1st semester was a bit about programming (back then schools didn't have mandatory classes, so it was used to bring everyone up to the same level (if/else, loops, recursion, ...)). Everything else was "here's your exercise, do it, teamwork is allowed".

From there you are free to do what you want. Sure, if you take software engineering / database courses you will learn something about web programming. But if you prefer algorithms (graphs, ...), ai, crypto, robotic, image processing, ... you won't touch anything web related.
Yes, there is interdisciplinary stuff and you can combine those. But overall you are not required to do that.

Overall there's large misconception that a "cs degree" is a "programming degree". That's why a lot of graduates are actually really bad in the industry. They did the minimum work required (teamwork leeching grades) and are not capable of programming. Being a good programmer while getting a cs degree takes additional effort from the individual.

Yeah but if you take just one project based course in web development, you'd hear about angular and mvc and frameworks even if you didn't understand them. Professors like to incorporate real world technologies into their lectures. It's one branch of cs that you don't need to go too deep into to hear these things and get a high level understanding of them.

I'm not saying cs is just a programming degree. And I don't think that's true.


To be fair, if you haven´t heard of MVC you have taken 0 SE classes, and I don't think that is possible for any CS course anywhere (I should know, I took as little SE classes as possible). The main thing is that MVC is both easier and harder for web programming than for "traditional" software, because of the major mixup of different languages and paradigms that get thrown together.

I was at uni in the early 00s, though, so maybe courses have changed since then. Imho they really should have. Web services are such a major part of CS nowadays that it seems negligent to not teach something about the bewildering mix of tools you will encounter.
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-18 02:01:50
March 18 2015 02:00 GMT
#12102
I have zero web development experience from school and I go to a CS heavy school. Web development is a tiny drop compared to all the technology available, it's not really that important to learn. Networking, for example, can be taught in almost complete isolation of web development.
There is no one like you in the universe.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-18 02:14:15
March 18 2015 02:10 GMT
#12103
On March 18 2015 11:00 Blisse wrote:
I have zero web development experience from school and I go to a CS heavy school. Web development is a tiny drop compared to all the technology available, it's not really that important to learn. Networking, for example, can be taught in almost complete isolation of web development.

Yeah. That is how it is for my school too. There's a web development class but it's an elective. You could easily complete a degree without ever doing any web development. I took the class just because I figured it would be useful to know. Though the class I am in is more of a survey of most of the current technologies and popular concepts than anything in-depth. We do a bit of everything and only go deeper into one or two things for a project.

A competent programmer could probably pick up web development pretty fast anyway. It has the potential to get kinda complicated if you let it but the basics are fairly straightforward.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
March 18 2015 02:15 GMT
#12104
Relevant but not relevant, there's a god damned 1px line in some CSS that shows up on IE that doesn't show in Chrome... ugh
There is no one like you in the universe.
fmod
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
Cayman Islands330 Posts
March 18 2015 02:29 GMT
#12105
I don't think web development is hard to pick for any experienced programmer. What I dont like about it how much people rely on third party frameworks and mediocre abstractions such as MVC. The mere fact that people use this does not mean that it has real validity in a scientific sense. I agree with Dijkstra that programming is a real science, which has logical/mathematical roots, and this is what should be taught in universities, not some framework which no one will remember in a few years.
I don't particularly like you.
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
March 18 2015 02:55 GMT
#12106
whoa cayman islands
There is no one like you in the universe.
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-18 03:16:12
March 18 2015 03:15 GMT
#12107
Yeah I had the same experience where there aren't actually any web development classes taught here besides electives. That being said it still seems a lot more complicated/nuanced than I anticipated. I'm personally not interested in doing web dev long term (to my knowledge atm), but there's a lot of demand for web developers from what I can gather at least in the startup sphere. I applied mainly to startups to get more experience building things and working, so even though it's def not my area of expertise or what I'm interested in doing long-term, with a lot of effort I do hope to learn a lot in general

It's definitely pretty scary to get out of classes and start looking for work though ;;
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19229 Posts
March 18 2015 03:24 GMT
#12108
On March 17 2015 04:36 BisuDagger wrote:
Anyone know how to change the wallpaper to color black from the terminal/a makefile in KDE4? Additionally, how would I apply it to more then one screen?

Thanks in advance!
edit: this is on RHEL7 if that makes any differences.

No linux nerds here to help me out? Usually there's a dozen of you in here to help me!
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19029 Posts
March 18 2015 04:47 GMT
#12109
basic google search results in this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-803417.html

dcop kdesktop KBackgroundIface setWallpaper 1 "/usr/share/default_black.jpg" 6
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19029 Posts
March 18 2015 04:47 GMT
#12110
On March 18 2015 07:50 Khalum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2015 07:21 Acrofales wrote:
I have to say that that is a pretty normal reaction in my experience. When studying, I had fun with some pet projects. Nowadays unless it serves a serious purpose (work or a course), I don't program anything at home.

I coded a lot in my free time while I was at University. Nowadays I just drink in my free time...

drink, then code :D
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
_fool
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands676 Posts
March 18 2015 07:38 GMT
#12111
On March 18 2015 12:15 Aerisky wrote:
Yeah I had the same experience where there aren't actually any web development classes taught here besides electives. That being said it still seems a lot more complicated/nuanced than I anticipated. I'm personally not interested in doing web dev long term (to my knowledge atm), but there's a lot of demand for web developers from what I can gather at least in the startup sphere. I applied mainly to startups to get more experience building things and working, so even though it's def not my area of expertise or what I'm interested in doing long-term, with a lot of effort I do hope to learn a lot in general

It's definitely pretty scary to get out of classes and start looking for work though ;;


Startups are great if you're after a sense of accomplishment. You're building something from scratch, which is awesome. But as a learning environment it's less ideal (in my experience at least). Colleagues who have knowledge of the technology you're working with *and* have time to share that knowledge are great for picking up new skills. In startups, those are harder to find. More pressure, less colleagues.

It is good fun though, and this is the time in your life to do it So something to be said for both sides of the story I guess.
"News is to the mind what sugar is to the body"
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-18 07:58:09
March 18 2015 07:57 GMT
#12112
Ah really? I'd always heard that by working in a startup vs a larger company, you get more exposure to more technologies and tasks, as opposed to being a small gear in a big machine and whatnot. It definitely makes sense that it'll be harder for people working in startups to find time to mentor/provide instruction as much though. And yeah I'm really excited!
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
March 18 2015 08:16 GMT
#12113
On March 18 2015 16:57 Aerisky wrote:
Ah really? I'd always heard that by working in a startup vs a larger company, you get more exposure to more technologies and tasks, as opposed to being a small gear in a big machine and whatnot. It definitely makes sense that it'll be harder for people working in startups to find time to mentor/provide instruction as much though. And yeah I'm really excited!


Startups can be very different from company to company. If the founders have programming background, you either get to work with all the fancy things they read about on the internet this morning or work with some custom framework and such that they developed themselves after their programming 101 course. If they don't have a programming background, you get to work with whatever you like, but if it isn't done yesterday, you better pick something that gets it done yesterday next time, even if the code is a mess afterwards.

Larger companies have their established technologies and introducing new technologies or methods is a long process at the end of which there is already a newer, better method or technology available, so you have to work with ancient code that went through a dozen hands, but since larger companies are usually under less financial pressure, the need to get it done yesterday is lower and you can take your time and try to write your code properly, just like the 12 people that worked on the code before you and all thought they wrote it properly - from their point of view.

Also, larger companies are usually 9-5 with little risk of overtime, startups can be 9-9 every day because you have to get stuff out of the door quickly so the company starts to make money.

There are exceptions of course, e.g. financially secure startups that have plenty of time to produce a good - in terms of code quality - product and larger companies that are quick to adapt to new technologies, but as a rule of thumb, if you are looking for a job, the above is what your expectations should be. Startups to challenge yourself, large companies to actually get old in.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19229 Posts
March 18 2015 12:52 GMT
#12114
On March 18 2015 13:47 tofucake wrote:
basic google search results in this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-803417.html

dcop kdesktop KBackgroundIface setWallpaper 1 "/usr/share/default_black.jpg" 6

That wasn't the final solution. In fact the result of the thread ended without figuring it out. On kde4 dcop does not exist. Thank you for that link though, it was educational reading through the thread.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
March 18 2015 18:05 GMT
#12115
Ahh I see Morfildur, thanks! That does make a lot of sense, and I'm definitely looking forward to getting to work, as harrowing as it might sound haha. Long days of writing crazy amounts of code definitely sounds pretty interesting and exciting (until it isn't, but in general it sounds fun).
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-18 23:30:22
March 18 2015 21:38 GMT
#12116
snip resolved :p
There is no one like you in the universe.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17242 Posts
March 18 2015 22:00 GMT
#12117
On March 19 2015 03:05 Aerisky wrote:
Ahh I see Morfildur, thanks! That does make a lot of sense, and I'm definitely looking forward to getting to work, as harrowing as it might sound haha. Long days of writing crazy amounts of code definitely sounds pretty interesting and exciting (until it isn't, but in general it sounds fun).


Think more in terms of looking at code for hours trying to figure out how could someone possibly mess this up so much...
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17969 Posts
March 18 2015 22:08 GMT
#12118
On March 19 2015 07:00 Manit0u wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2015 03:05 Aerisky wrote:
Ahh I see Morfildur, thanks! That does make a lot of sense, and I'm definitely looking forward to getting to work, as harrowing as it might sound haha. Long days of writing crazy amounts of code definitely sounds pretty interesting and exciting (until it isn't, but in general it sounds fun).


Think more in terms of looking at code for hours trying to figure out how could someone possibly mess this up so much...

And then figure out it's your own code from a couple of months back? :D
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
March 18 2015 23:16 GMT
#12119
You probably don’t want to be first employee for a startup. Be the last co-founder instead.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-19 02:16:50
March 19 2015 01:49 GMT
#12120
Saw this yesterday. Might have been from this thread

https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-your-time-in-crappy-startup-jobs/

Personally I don't think I have the skills to be a founder so it'd take more time to learn all the frameworks and set up things like node. It's also more risk. But is there a point to joining a startup just as people stop being paid with equity?
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
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