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Obama fires McChrystal, installs Petraeus - Page 4

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ImAbstracT
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
519 Posts
June 23 2010 20:49 GMT
#61
On June 24 2010 05:44 GuerrillaRepublik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 05:33 motbob wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:22 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:12 motbob wrote:
Petraeus won Iraq. Maybe he can win Afghanistan.

lol, define "win".


Casualties:

Year       US       UK       Other       Total
2003       486       53       41       580
2004       849       22       35       906
2005       846       23       28       897
2006       822       29       21       872
2007       904       47       10       961
2008       314       4       4       322
2009       149       1       0       150
2010       38       0       0       38

That's such a ridiculous drop in casualties. Stability is on the rise over there. We won the war.



u call it "war"? i call it genocide of the middle eastern population

I agree.
"I want you to take a moment, and reflect, on how much of a failure you are" - IdrA
InToTheWannaB
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4770 Posts
June 23 2010 20:50 GMT
#62
Military men have no business questioning whats being asked of them. There job is to simply get whats being asked of them done, as best they can. If the President ask for your opinion as a general you give it to him, but if he ask you to do something. Even If you think its a bad idea. You shut up and try to get it done.
When the spirit is not altogether slain, great loss teaches men and women to desire greatly, both for themselves and for others.
ImAbstracT
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
519 Posts
June 23 2010 20:51 GMT
#63
On June 24 2010 05:46 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 05:44 GuerrillaRepublik wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:33 motbob wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:22 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:12 motbob wrote:
Petraeus won Iraq. Maybe he can win Afghanistan.

lol, define "win".


Casualties:

Year       US       UK       Other       Total
2003       486       53       41       580
2004       849       22       35       906
2005       846       23       28       897
2006       822       29       21       872
2007       904       47       10       961
2008       314       4       4       322
2009       149       1       0       150
2010       38       0       0       38

That's such a ridiculous drop in casualties. Stability is on the rise over there. We won the war.



u call it "war"? i call it genocide of the middle eastern population


Its not like stuff was exactly peachy before we got there. The entire Middle East situation has always been a mess that needed to be fixed. Just because we're sorting it out now rather than later doesn't mean that its any worse.

LOL so killing even more people and staining Americas hands with even MORE blood fixed the situation?
"I want you to take a moment, and reflect, on how much of a failure you are" - IdrA
ImAbstracT
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
519 Posts
June 23 2010 20:51 GMT
#64
On June 24 2010 05:50 InToTheWannaB wrote:
Military men have no business questioning whats being asked of them. There job is to simply get whats being asked of them done, as best they can. If the President ask for your opinion as a general you give it to him, but if he ask you to do something. Even If you think its a bad idea. You shut up and try to get it done.

Thats right. Shut up and obey orders you little serf! Sorta sounds like our entire government.
"I want you to take a moment, and reflect, on how much of a failure you are" - IdrA
GreatFall
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1061 Posts
June 23 2010 20:54 GMT
#65
good, maybe now he can go command some French troops.
Inventor of the 'Burning Tide' technique to quickly getting Outmatched Crusher achivement :D
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
June 23 2010 20:58 GMT
#66
On June 24 2010 05:49 EpiCenteR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 05:44 GuerrillaRepublik wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:33 motbob wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:22 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:12 motbob wrote:
Petraeus won Iraq. Maybe he can win Afghanistan.

lol, define "win".


Casualties:

Year       US       UK       Other       Total
2003       486       53       41       580
2004       849       22       35       906
2005       846       23       28       897
2006       822       29       21       872
2007       904       47       10       961
2008       314       4       4       322
2009       149       1       0       150
2010       38       0       0       38

That's such a ridiculous drop in casualties. Stability is on the rise over there. We won the war.



u call it "war"? i call it genocide of the middle eastern population

I agree.


Me too... Except who's committing the genocide? American troops, or umm, the terrorists specifically targeting civilians by blowing themselves up in crowded markets? Durka durka durka.
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
SpaceElvis
Profile Joined May 2010
United States10 Posts
June 23 2010 20:59 GMT
#67
McChrystal pretty much had to go.

It would be one thing if he'd been overheard saying those things, say, at a party to one of his friends or colleagues. Obama probably still would have been pissed but there just would have been a private notice of displeasure.

But he said it, on the record, to a journalist.

When a serving military commander badmouths his commander-in-chief and govt on the record, to the press, without prompting, then there's really no choice except to fire him. It's Douglas MacArthur all over again.

Something to remember is that Obama likely did not WANT to fire McChrystal. He's a politician and he reads history. He knows exactly how popular firing MacArthur made Truman and I think he can accurately predict that a lot of people will not look kindly on this sacking. Even for people who support the decision, it does not paint a picture of a mission going well. It is in fact more bad news for him, and if he could have buried the whole matter and handled it internally he would have, as it would have been in his best interests politically.

I'm not sure I buy the idea that McChrystal got fired deliberately. I honestly have more respect for him as a person than to believe he'd do that, which would amount to basically abandoning his guys in a dishonorable way. Not to mention that his career may now be over. I think it's more likely that he just forgot himself and had hubris take over.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem, you clearly didn't use enough of it.
Destro
Profile Joined September 2009
Netherlands1206 Posts
June 23 2010 21:03 GMT
#68
Petraeus is a good man, read a couple books on him. His career over the last 10 years has skyrocketed. Right man for the job imo
bring back weapon of choice for hots!
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-23 21:06:11
June 23 2010 21:05 GMT
#69
On June 24 2010 05:49 EpiCenteR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 05:33 motbob wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:22 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:12 motbob wrote:
Petraeus won Iraq. Maybe he can win Afghanistan.

lol, define "win".


Casualties:

Year       US       UK       Other       Total
2003       486       53       41       580
2004       849       22       35       906
2005       846       23       28       897
2006       822       29       21       872
2007       904       47       10       961
2008       314       4       4       322
2009       149       1       0       150
2010       38       0       0       38

That's such a ridiculous drop in casualties. Stability is on the rise over there. We won the war.

So we "won" a war that should have never been started. Thousands of our souldiers have dies, tens of thousands, if not more, innocent iraqis have been murdered, and put this country in a horrible fiscal hole.

All for what? Throwing out a regime who had NOTHING to do with 9/11? Capturing wmds that did not exist?

Yeah, we sure have won this war. It was all totally worth it.

That's right. When you lose an argument, don't concede the point. Pivot to another point. That's how we do it on the internet.

EDIT: Also you need to relax, I think.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
ImAbstracT
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
519 Posts
June 23 2010 21:08 GMT
#70
On June 24 2010 05:58 Warrior Madness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 05:49 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:44 GuerrillaRepublik wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:33 motbob wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:22 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:12 motbob wrote:
Petraeus won Iraq. Maybe he can win Afghanistan.

lol, define "win".


Casualties:

Year       US       UK       Other       Total
2003       486       53       41       580
2004       849       22       35       906
2005       846       23       28       897
2006       822       29       21       872
2007       904       47       10       961
2008       314       4       4       322
2009       149       1       0       150
2010       38       0       0       38

That's such a ridiculous drop in casualties. Stability is on the rise over there. We won the war.



u call it "war"? i call it genocide of the middle eastern population

I agree.


Me too... Except who's committing the genocide? American troops, or umm, the terrorists specifically targeting civilians by blowing themselves up in crowded markets? Durka durka durka.

Both.
"I want you to take a moment, and reflect, on how much of a failure you are" - IdrA
Vile Animus
Profile Joined June 2010
United States34 Posts
June 23 2010 21:09 GMT
#71
On June 24 2010 05:49 EpiCenteR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 05:44 GuerrillaRepublik wrote:
u call it "war"? i call it genocide of the middle eastern population

I agree.


Calling a war a genocide diminishes the weight of the word and repulsiveness of the concept. If every war is a 'genocide' then how do you distinguish a real genocide from a war? If you want to avoid genocides, diminishing the word to meaninglessness isn't productive.
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
June 23 2010 21:14 GMT
#72
It was obvious he had to be fired. Are you really going to keep a GENERAL that openly states the war is futile? Obviously you need someone who has the mentality to get the job done. Whether or not gen McChrystal was right is besides the point and as people say this was most likely done with the intention of getting sacked. Sure he could do the same thing within closed doors but then the reason wouldn't be made public. I choose to believe that McChrystal did this to pose a strong anti afghanistan war statement rather than trying to escape being the scapegoat for that war.

I don't see how you could argue that anyone did anything morally wrong here. Sure McChrystal's statement might have been highly unprofessional but from a moral standpoint it was the right thing to do if you want to contribute to ending the war.

I personally think this war needs to go on for atleast as long as it takes to pressure the Pakistani government into destroying the taliban within Pakistan. To do this you NEED control over the Afghani border otherwise the taliban will just go back to Afghanistan.

Terrorism was started by all the wars in the middle east that made some people over there get a deep hatred for westerners (primarily americans). To end terrorism you need to root out tthe terrorist military organisations and destroy them aswell as reach out to the people. People down there have been living in war zones for a long time and need to be reassured that we are the good guys. But neither of that can be acomplished unless the Taliban are forcefully disarmed. No ammount of diplomacy will change the minds of those few sorry ass brain washed wrecks. Their organisation needs to fall and to speak about diplomacy with these people is in my opinion naive.
ImAbstracT
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
519 Posts
June 23 2010 21:16 GMT
#73
On June 24 2010 06:09 Vile Animus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 05:49 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:44 GuerrillaRepublik wrote:
u call it "war"? i call it genocide of the middle eastern population

I agree.


Calling a war a genocide diminishes the weight of the word and repulsiveness of the concept. If every war is a 'genocide' then how do you distinguish a real genocide from a war? If you want to avoid genocides, diminishing the word to meaninglessness isn't productive.

What else do you call the murder of tens of thousands of innocent people.?
"I want you to take a moment, and reflect, on how much of a failure you are" - IdrA
Lysis
Profile Joined October 2009
United States147 Posts
June 23 2010 21:18 GMT
#74
On June 24 2010 03:30 snotboogie wrote:General McChrystal (head guy in charge in Afghanistan) was just fired by Obama for comments he made in a Rolling Stones article that disparaged the President and his camp's decisions on war.


Actually I believe General McChrystal resigned from his post as commander of forces in Afghanistan, and was not fired by Obama. Please fact check yourself before posting.
SC2: Tavyr#340 -- Razer Mamba user -- Don't trust anyone who says Terran is imba.
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
June 23 2010 21:19 GMT
#75
On June 24 2010 06:18 Lysis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 03:30 snotboogie wrote:General McChrystal (head guy in charge in Afghanistan) was just fired by Obama for comments he made in a Rolling Stones article that disparaged the President and his camp's decisions on war.


Actually I believe General McChrystal resigned from his post as commander of forces in Afghanistan, and was not fired by Obama. Please fact check yourself before posting.

Politically, the two are unrecognizable.
Lysis
Profile Joined October 2009
United States147 Posts
June 23 2010 21:21 GMT
#76
On June 24 2010 06:19 Romantic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 06:18 Lysis wrote:
On June 24 2010 03:30 snotboogie wrote:General McChrystal (head guy in charge in Afghanistan) was just fired by Obama for comments he made in a Rolling Stones article that disparaged the President and his camp's decisions on war.


Actually I believe General McChrystal resigned from his post as commander of forces in Afghanistan, and was not fired by Obama. Please fact check yourself before posting.

Politically, the two are unrecognizable.


Maybe that is so. But in terms of how people view the news, resignation is a bit more dignified than getting sacked. But if the OP wishes to sensationalize his post, he should at least get the terminology correct.
SC2: Tavyr#340 -- Razer Mamba user -- Don't trust anyone who says Terran is imba.
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
June 23 2010 21:22 GMT
#77
On June 24 2010 06:21 Lysis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 06:19 Romantic wrote:
On June 24 2010 06:18 Lysis wrote:
On June 24 2010 03:30 snotboogie wrote:General McChrystal (head guy in charge in Afghanistan) was just fired by Obama for comments he made in a Rolling Stones article that disparaged the President and his camp's decisions on war.


Actually I believe General McChrystal resigned from his post as commander of forces in Afghanistan, and was not fired by Obama. Please fact check yourself before posting.

Politically, the two are unrecognizable.


Maybe that is so. But in terms of how people view the news, resignation is a bit more dignified than getting sacked. But if the OP wishes to sensationalize his post, he should at least get the terminology correct.

Agreed
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
June 23 2010 21:25 GMT
#78
On June 24 2010 06:16 EpiCenteR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 06:09 Vile Animus wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:49 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:44 GuerrillaRepublik wrote:
u call it "war"? i call it genocide of the middle eastern population

I agree.


Calling a war a genocide diminishes the weight of the word and repulsiveness of the concept. If every war is a 'genocide' then how do you distinguish a real genocide from a war? If you want to avoid genocides, diminishing the word to meaninglessness isn't productive.

What else do you call the murder of tens of thousands of innocent people.?

Slaughter? Genocide implies a malicious intent against a group. By definition, it's "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group." That hasn't happened in Iraq. Most of the killing has been random, and generally the Sunni suicide bombings against Shi'a population centers have been out of desperation. You wouldn't call IRA bombings genocide.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
GuerrillaRepublik
Profile Joined June 2010
United States34 Posts
June 23 2010 21:26 GMT
#79
On June 24 2010 06:09 Vile Animus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 05:49 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:44 GuerrillaRepublik wrote:
u call it "war"? i call it genocide of the middle eastern population

I agree.


Calling a war a genocide diminishes the weight of the word and repulsiveness of the concept. If every war is a 'genocide' then how do you distinguish a real genocide from a war? If you want to avoid genocides, diminishing the word to meaninglessness isn't productive.


I didnt call war a genocide, because i know and believe it isnt a war but a genocide of middle eastern population. War? can you exaplain to me how its a war? because of this "War on terror" ?We "invaded" iraq because we the great nation that has the right to have 750+ military bases around the globe and act like a world dictator thought that Suddam had the WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. But did we find it? no. Suddam was shown as a evil facist dictator that mass murdered there own civilians with chemical weapons but who gave them the chemical weapons? We did, to help them go to war with Iran. We invaded Iraq and just we calling it a war.
dont start none wont be none
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
June 23 2010 21:28 GMT
#80
On June 24 2010 06:16 EpiCenteR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2010 06:09 Vile Animus wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:49 EpiCenteR wrote:
On June 24 2010 05:44 GuerrillaRepublik wrote:
u call it "war"? i call it genocide of the middle eastern population

I agree.


Calling a war a genocide diminishes the weight of the word and repulsiveness of the concept. If every war is a 'genocide' then how do you distinguish a real genocide from a war? If you want to avoid genocides, diminishing the word to meaninglessness isn't productive.

What else do you call the murder of tens of thousands of innocent people.?


See there. It's more complex than yes/no genocide, because it depends too much on different definitions of the term, which means, in my opinion, it becomes useless to discuss it in that way unless you want to argue about it in a legal context.

I still object to calling lower casualties in Iraq "winning", because that ignores the face the population is hardly any better off than before the invasion. Eventually, of course, violence and internal strife will die down to pre-occupation levels, and there doesn't seem to be any prospect of continuation of the massive violence and attacks on the scale of a few years back, although there still are a lot of suicide bombings, but that is to be expected, and not necessarily caused by any US-military intervention (I'd be interested in sources for that).

(not to mention the Iraq government is basically a puppet government set up for oil interests and keeping civil unrest at a minimum. )
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
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