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On June 02 2010 08:43 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 08:40 Pika Chu wrote:
What do you mean it is wrong no matter what? Did you know that it seems if you have a legal blockade, you can legally board a civilian ship on international waters, if there is a good reason to believe they will try to break the blockade? I bet you didn't. I bet you also didn't know that this still doesn't mean that Israel acted legally. Law is a complex matter and laymen should remain quiet about it.
The blockade is illegal. That is what matters, and that makes boarding illegal right now as well given your info. But actually, even that isn't entirely clear. I'll quote myself: "Law is a complex matter and laymen should remain quiet about it."
As a law student who is mainly focusing on international politics and law, and having debates and researches , doing moot courts about it in school for years, I can assure you that blockade is illegal.Other than me, any world citizen who is into these matters knows that it is illegal by the international rules of law.
You CAN say Israel is RIGHT to have a blockade to prevent incoming weapon traffic because that is the logical thing right? But being right and HAVING RIGHT are whole separate things. Israel does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to apply such blockade.
Is that satisfying for you? or like a previous post, Should jesus come and tell you that blockade is illegal? or should I enlist you the provisions who forbid that kind of blockade?
OR as you said if are not sure about the law, what is illegal or legal, we should remain quiet about it.
but as you see noone is staying quiet about it including you. You are quoting yourself on and on giving advice to be quiet about a matter you are not sure, yet have counts of comments about the matter.
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F turkey F arbs Isreal did the right thing not allowing those "aid bout" to get to gaza they where fuking armed with knives and sticks and even 2 arb ppl start shoting before the isreali comandos open fire..(they had no choice) if isreal would let the bouts to get to gaza then that will allowed an intrnationl smogling line then they would tranfsfer not "aid" (sticks and knives with hairy bI) they will transfer wepon that will put in danger the isreali civilians..after all that sh*t turkey talks smack about us killing ppl that fight 4 peace with knives and guns they should of stop those boats from the godman start!!! or put a big dildo up thier own ass and shout we didnt know but not to talk smack about us killing civilian isreal HAVE the f righ by inrenationl laws to put gaza in blockade...if you will look some news you would see that our presidnt said that
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 02 2010 09:34 vibemytribe wrote:
F turkey F arbs Isreal did the right thing not allowing those "aid bout" to get to gaza they where fuking armed with knives and sticks and even 2 arb ppl start shoting before the isreali comandos open fire..(they had no choice) if isreal would let the bouts to get to gaza then that will allowed an intrnationl smogling line then they would tranfsfer not "aid" (sticks and knives with hairy bI) they will transfer wepon that will put in danger the isreali civilians..after all that sh*t turkey talks smack about us killing ppl that fight 4 peace with knives and guns they should of stop those boats from the godman start!!! or put a big dildo up thier own ass and shout we didnt know but not to talk smack about us killing civilian
Take a trip to disneyland, nice (not) knowing ya.
afaik, this occured in intl waters, by international law what the IDF did was illegal
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On June 02 2010 09:34 vibemytribe wrote:
F turkey F arbs Isreal did the right thing not allowing those "aid bout" to get to gaza they where fuking armed with knives and sticks and even 2 arb ppl start shoting before the isreali comandos open fire..(they had no choice) if isreal would let the bouts to get to gaza then that will allowed an intrnationl smogling line then they would tranfsfer not "aid" (sticks and knives with hairy bI) they will transfer wepon that will put in danger the isreali civilians..after all that sh*t turkey talks smack about us killing ppl that fight 4 peace with knives and guns they should of stop those boats from the godman start!!! or put a big dildo up thier own ass and shout we didnt know but not to talk smack about us killing civilian
Yeah, HAMAS would knock out all IDF forces with ship tools and protest equipment. IDF should have known better boarding a ship with pro-palestinian activists in it. Like all same activists all over the world who fight police forces with sticks, gas masks, stone-shooters, protesting war.
and I think with the beginning of your post you should get a temp ban or sth.
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This article sums up the situation nicely:
Article
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On June 02 2010 09:34 vibemytribe wrote:
F turkey F arbs Isreal did the right thing not allowing those "aid bout" to get to gaza they where fuking armed with knives and sticks and even 2 arb ppl start shoting before the isreali comandos open fire..(they had no choice) if isreal would let the bouts to get to gaza then that will allowed an intrnationl smogling line then they would tranfsfer not "aid" (sticks and knives with hairy bI) they will transfer wepon that will put in danger the isreali civilians..after all that sh*t turkey talks smack about us killing ppl that fight 4 peace with knives and guns they should of stop those boats from the godman start!!! or put a big dildo up thier own ass and shout we didnt know but not to talk smack about us killing civilian isreal HAVE the f righ by inrenationl laws to put gaza in blockade...if you will look some news you would see that our presidnt said that
If this is a troll it must be the best troll i've seen lately :D.
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On June 02 2010 09:34 vibemytribe wrote:
F turkey F arbs Isreal did the right thing not allowing those "aid bout" to get to gaza they where fuking armed with knives and sticks and even 2 arb ppl start shoting before the isreali comandos open fire..(they had no choice) if isreal would let the bouts to get to gaza then that will allowed an intrnationl smogling line then they would tranfsfer not "aid" (sticks and knives with hairy bI) they will transfer wepon that will put in danger the isreali civilians..after all that sh*t turkey talks smack about us killing ppl that fight 4 peace with knives and guns they should of stop those boats from the godman start!!! or put a big dildo up thier own ass and shout we didnt know but not to talk smack about us killing civilian isreal HAVE the f righ by inrenationl laws to put gaza in blockade...if you will look some news you would see that our presidnt said that
are you the brainwashed one that's mentioned in the article? probably yes
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/operation-mini-cast-lead-1.293417
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Just like KeSPA vs Blizz, its so hard to form an objective opinion on what actually happened :S
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This is the statement from Jewish Community and the Chief Rabbi in Turkey,
"We have learnt about the military raid to the ship Mavi Marmara, en route to Gaza, with deep sorrow.
Having casualties and injuries during the raid adding up to our worry.
We support the responses and share the feelings, those are against the raid . And we share our sorrow with the community."
Source: Şalom Newspaper -> Head Jewish Media in Turkey.
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I don't see why people keep linking stuff from Jewish people. Israel is a predominately Jewish state, it's not a Jewish ran state it's not a theocracy.
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On June 02 2010 10:12 semantics wrote:
I don't see why people keep linking stuff from Jewish people. Israel is a predominately Jewish state, it's not a Jewish ran state it's not a theocracy.
I thought that was obvious why.
Some people wants information about recent developments. Pure Turkish statements will sound biased. So updating here with news from both sides.
Believe me there are people reading this thread and asking to know those kind of news.
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I don't see value in words coming from a rabi, i rather see words coming from someone who knows politics.
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Does anyone find it interesting that Israel is automatically condemned regardless of what they do, almost immediately, through all of its history? Name any other country, N.Korea, USSR, Third Reich Germany, Mousillini's Italy, Iran, Iraq, no one else has been held to the same standards.
Does anyone find this extremely unusual?
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beetlejuice that's not "news from both sides" dude, theyre both turkish -_-.
regarding the incident, i'm sure everyone is interested in my opinion so here goes, with intentions of treating both IDF and the activists as "rational human beings":
if IDF did indeed fire shots before boarding and the whole video fiasco, then they're utterly retarded. Congrats on single handedly making israel lose such a great ally like turkey. (although it did seem like turkey has been searching for an excuse to break off its israeli ties for 10 years or so now). Also, the only rational motivation I could see for this would be some soldiers on a PERSONAL LEVEL being tired and raging over personal issues with how the ongoing war has affected his life and family.
if however, the videos and israeli reports are truthful, ie the IDF tried to board and occupy the ships and the activists "defended themselves" by beating soldiers down, that's also fucking retarded. Imagine cops come to your house with some kind of illegal warrant, you don't try to fight them; you complain and get annoyed, but sure as hell don't fight back unless you want to get imprisoned/beat up. Especially grabbing a gun from a cop, prepare to get shot or if you're lucky beat unconscious with nightsticks. These people were supposedly academics, they must understand the power that the IDF has and what they are capable of. No idiot would act like them, unless again they had some kind of vendetta against israel and that doesn't make them much of "peaceful protesters" or anything they seemed to pose as. In fact, with that kind of attitude I think it's reasonable to assume they wouldn't be opposed to aiding in confrontations with Gaza inhabitants... in which case it would be unideal for Israel to let them proceed into the blockade in the first place.
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United States22883 Posts
On June 02 2010 10:12 semantics wrote:
I don't see why people keep linking stuff from Jewish people. Israel is a predominately Jewish state, it's not a Jewish ran state it's not a theocracy.
Technically it is... it's a democratic theocracy.
Your point still stands about him quoting a Turkish rabbi, just thought I'd point that out.
As for your request, like I said earlier, we're talking about international law here. It's rarely agreed upon and even less frequently is it enforced. Basically the only thing that matters are the reactions from the US, EU, NATO and to some extent the UN, and obviously Turkey, and how they choose to treat Israel. None of them are going to rely on international law to make their point (or if they do, then the point is that they don't intend to do anything), so I feel the issue is kind of moot.
I know the idea of international law is much bigger in Turkey and other places in Europe, but I seriously doubt the international community going to start using it all of a sudden. I don't know what exactly they'd try to cite in this case, but Israel probably has some document saying otherwise, that the boardings were legal.
The ICC is the only international law system that has ever gotten something done, and Israel isn't signed to it, so what do you expect will happen through law? Any recourse will be of arbitrary value and not through rule of law.
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On June 02 2010 11:23 ShinyGerbil wrote:
beetlejuice that's not "news from both sides" dude, theyre both turkish -_-.
sorry my bad I was actually came to that conclusion after Armut's link.
my train of thought went like a journalist from Israel then a rabbi from Turkey and on.
yeah I would say the same thing as you did. so my bad.
but also to an extent, I believe that Jewish Community is the most closer community even they are spread out in various places of the world. That's why I felt even a Turkish Jew's comment had a value considering the structure of the community.
oh this is my last message in this thread by the way.
if you want to know about the developments here or if there is some Turkish news that you can't translate just PM me. That goes for you too Jibba 
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On May 31 2010 20:51 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 20:41 pvzvt wrote:On May 31 2010 19:16 Liquid`Drone wrote:
there is NO way of defending this. this convoi largely consists of 3 groups of people - academics/writers, politicians, and doctors. they sure as hell are not gun-smugglers or terrorists.
im hoping this can finally turn israel into the pariah it should be, like south africa 20 years ago, because it's not going to change without serious external pressure. unfortunately USA is key - fortunately you got barack in power atm. ??? there are ways to help the Gaza people and if its by humanitarian ways u can do so by working with the Gaza authority and Israeli one through the normal channels this was a well known provocation they knew its a provocation and its on their head yes dude it's a provocation. but only an israeli can be crazy enough to buy into the belief that a provocation warrants killing 16 people. activists said they were prepared for israel firing warning shots and israel detaining them for a day or more. but actual bordering of the ships in international water and killing 16 civilians? to give a proper analogy, this is like shooting a kid who throws stones at you.
Isn't that how they react to kids throwing rocks anyways?
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United States22883 Posts
On June 02 2010 11:38 beetlejuice wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 11:23 ShinyGerbil wrote:
beetlejuice that's not "news from both sides" dude, theyre both turkish -_-.
sorry my bad I was actually came to that conclusion after Armut's link. my train of thought went like a journalist from Israel then a rabbi from Turkey and on. yeah I would say the same thing as you did. so my bad. oh this is my last message in this thread by the way. if you want to know about the developments here or if there is some Turkish news that you can't translate just PM me. That goes for you too Jibba
I've got the Hurriyet Daily for now. 
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On June 02 2010 06:01 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 04:23 ComusLoM wrote:On June 02 2010 04:08 xDaunt wrote:
Just out of curiosity, do any of you care that the ships that Israel boarded were funded by a group with known terrorist ties? Specifically, does that fact give Israel enough cause to board the ships in the first place? Does it affect how Israel should have approached the situation in the first place? I still haven't seen any solid proof of significant backing from groups with true known terrorist ties. Especially considering if it was true it would be significantly spouted by the Israeli government as part of their supposed justification. I'm sure they're spouting this all over Faux news but I don't have the heart to read their take on this. http://counterterrorismblog.org/2010/06/shooting_the_messenger_a_look.php
While I have no problem with people holding conservative views, it seems pertinent to point out that this man cannot be considered a credible source.
A self-styled "academic and micro-historian" he holds no qualifications above an undergraduate degree.
Source
On June 02 2010 06:11 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 06:03 Jibba wrote:Today between my final exam studies I was watching TV nd the rescued people from Mavi Marmara was on TV. Something interesting they mentioned : Israels zodiac boats and and helicopters passed by the closer ships and headed directly to Turkish flagged one even tough there were 1-2 sea miles behind. From now on it is clear that this act was not just an accident but was semi-planned goverment supported action directly against Turkey. They also mentioned the commandos atacked at like 3-4 am in the morning and before they land they jammed every communication on the boats also tried to prevent TV connection atacking to the ones who were recording. I would hold off on believing that just from some NTV coverage. Wait for confirmation from somewhere else. Moreover, don't you think there is something terribly wrong with his conclusion, "...it is clear that..." Of course Israel must have had some kind of intel about who were on that ship. And seen from the results, it certainly was a special case, as there seems to have not been similar attacks against the soldiers on the other ships.
That may be because there was a total of 100 people spread across the other 5 vessels and roughly 600 people on the Mavi Marmara. If your vessel has between 1-96 people on board (those numbers representing the minimum and maximum that each other ship could have held) you have a relatively lower chance of being able to repel commandos boarding your vessel than if you have 600 passengers.
So no, I don't believe that it is logical to assume that because 600 people managed to briefly hold off armed commandos compared to ships that likely had roughly 20 people on them means that Israel had intelligence about "terrorists with links to Al-Qaeda" who were on board. That being what a senior Israeli Minister claimed recently in an interview.
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Edit: Condensed to one single post rather than a double post.
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EPT
