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On June 01 2010 22:49 Darpa wrote:
While, i dont condone violence, a clear warning was issued. And if they were truly "aid" vessels they wouldnt have had the means or the will to resist and cause shootouts/violence.
I would be willing to bet those ships were nothing but gun runners disguised as "aid ships" to supply islamic militants with weapons, and to me, it seems that israel is just being made out to be the bad guys.
If this was a group of UN aid workers, that would be a different story. But thats my opinion.
According to a video earlier ion the thread, they found knifes and tools on board, they also found a couple of sling shots, and most bizarrely, a couple of bottles filled with pebbles, evidently there is a pebble shortage in the rubble of post January 2010 Gaza ^^
EDIT:No guns though.
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United States22883 Posts
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Yeah and hopefully that will help turn the tide of radicalisation that poverty always brings
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On June 01 2010 22:49 Darpa wrote:
While, i dont condone violence, a clear warning was issued. And if they were truly "aid" vessels they wouldnt have had the means or the will to resist and cause shootouts/violence.
I would be willing to bet those ships were nothing but gun runners disguised as "aid ships" to supply islamic militants with weapons, and to me, it seems that israel is just being made out to be the bad guys.
If this was a group of UN aid workers, that would be a different story. But thats my opinion.
How come most of the people on those ships were doctors, academics, writers, aid workers and politicians then? How come no weapons were on the ships?(If you don't count knives and sticks). Why would you not be allowed to defend your ship if it is being attacked on international waters?
Of course they are trying to show Israel as being the bad guys. Of course they are trying to put international pressure on Israel to stop its illegal blockade of Gaza. Of course they are trying to bring attention to the blockade and the situation in Gaza. Who is denying that?
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United States22883 Posts
The flotilla, carrying tons of aid, had set sail from Turkey on Sunday, with the intention of breaking Israel's blockade on the Gaza Strip. Israel said Monday that it had repeatedly asked the convoy to turn back, and offered to deliver the aid via land, both of which were rejected by the convoy. Israel Navy troops boarded five of the six ships without incident before dawn Monday, but clashes erupted on the sixth boat, and nine passengers were killed.
During his briefing on the operation to the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Colonel Itzik Turgeman hinted that the IDF had sabotaged the engines of the other five ships, saying that "they took care of them."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/mossad-chief-israel-gradually-becoming-burden-on-u-s-1.293540
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On June 01 2010 22:52 Not_A_Notion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 22:49 Darpa wrote:
While, i dont condone violence, a clear warning was issued. And if they were truly "aid" vessels they wouldnt have had the means or the will to resist and cause shootouts/violence.
I would be willing to bet those ships were nothing but gun runners disguised as "aid ships" to supply islamic militants with weapons, and to me, it seems that israel is just being made out to be the bad guys.
If this was a group of UN aid workers, that would be a different story. But thats my opinion. According to a video earlier ion the thread, they found knifes and tools on board, they also found a couple of sling shots, and most bizarrely, a couple of bottles filled with pebbles, evidently there is a pebble shortage in the rubble of post January 2010 Gaza ^^ EDIT:No guns though.
Sorry, do you mean the video posted by the IDF/Israeli Government? This is absurd. Hey they filmed some weapons and released a video. That's good enough for me. Tools and a few knives on a ship, that sounds pretty serious.
Yeah, those pebbles and slingshots should be scary for the Israeli army if they had gotten them to Hamas. Thank God they were intercepted and stopped.
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
I don't think it's permanent though, Egypt and Israel are connected iirc through a peace treaty and economically, Egypt will most likely closely search everything that is brought in so as no weapons, missiles etc. are brought into Gaza, which is the reason why the blockades have been put up.
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United States22883 Posts
On June 01 2010 22:58 Spenguin wrote:
I don't think it's permanent though, Egypt and Israel are connected iirc through a peace treaty and economically, Egypt will most likely closely search everything that is brought in so as no weapons, missiles etc. are brought into Gaza, which is the reason why the blockades have been put up.
Israel and Turkey are closer economically. 
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Aid convoys, to which Egypt has in the past allowed only limited access, would be allowed to use the crossing, subject to following Cairo's limitation that only food and medical supplies be transported.
"Hard materials" - apparently including concrete and steel which Gazans want to repair damage from last year's Israeli offensive - would have to go via Israel, the Egyptian source said. Israel has made clear since it halted a Turkish-backed aid convoy at sea on Monday that it will not ease its embargo.
It's a step in the right direction but there is still no way to get needed building material into Gaza.
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On June 01 2010 22:58 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 22:52 Not_A_Notion wrote:On June 01 2010 22:49 Darpa wrote:
While, i dont condone violence, a clear warning was issued. And if they were truly "aid" vessels they wouldnt have had the means or the will to resist and cause shootouts/violence.
I would be willing to bet those ships were nothing but gun runners disguised as "aid ships" to supply islamic militants with weapons, and to me, it seems that israel is just being made out to be the bad guys.
If this was a group of UN aid workers, that would be a different story. But thats my opinion. According to a video earlier ion the thread, they found knifes and tools on board, they also found a couple of sling shots, and most bizarrely, a couple of bottles filled with pebbles, evidently there is a pebble shortage in the rubble of post January 2010 Gaza ^^ EDIT:No guns though. Sorry, do you mean the video posted by the IDF/Israeli Government? This is absurd. Hey they filmed some weapons and released a video. That's good enough for me. Tools and a few knives on a ship, that sounds pretty serious. Yeah, those pebbles and slingshots should be scary for the Israeli army if they had gotten them to Hamas. Thank God they were intercepted and stopped.
Hey, I just stuck to what was in the video, without passing judgement(Excluding my incredibly witty pebble-shortage observation), in response to the original message saying they were gun runners
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
On June 01 2010 23:00 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 22:58 Spenguin wrote:
I don't think it's permanent though, Egypt and Israel are connected iirc through a peace treaty and economically, Egypt will most likely closely search everything that is brought in so as no weapons, missiles etc. are brought into Gaza, which is the reason why the blockades have been put up. Israel and Turkey are closer economically.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt-Israel_Peace_Treaty
EDIT: Well reading further in that article, it is safe to say I am completely wrong there.
However iirc there was news or information about Egypt blockading Gaza strip from their borders to prevent weapons smuggling, that topic however isn't for right now.
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im not gonna begin to pretend i can comprehend even half the issue ...
in fact i had a long post but don't feel i am in the position to say half the things i had written
but all im going to say is the world faces much larger threats than some endless fucking war over "holy land"
this is ridiculous by israel. blatant disregard for human rights...
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
There are many pressing issues in the world right now, the conflict in Israel is spotlighted for how connected it is with the US and other western nations.
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
On June 01 2010 22:58 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +The flotilla, carrying tons of aid, had set sail from Turkey on Sunday, with the intention of breaking Israel's blockade on the Gaza Strip. Israel said Monday that it had repeatedly asked the convoy to turn back, and offered to deliver the aid via land, both of which were rejected by the convoy. Israel Navy troops boarded five of the six ships without incident before dawn Monday, but clashes erupted on the sixth boat, and nine passengers were killed.
During his briefing on the operation to the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, Colonel Itzik Turgeman hinted that the IDF had sabotaged the engines of the other five ships, saying that "they took care of them." http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/mossad-chief-israel-gradually-becoming-burden-on-u-s-1.293540
Just on that article scrolling down there's an article on "Bikini Diplomacy".
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United States22883 Posts
On June 01 2010 23:05 Spenguin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 23:00 Jibba wrote:On June 01 2010 22:58 Spenguin wrote:
I don't think it's permanent though, Egypt and Israel are connected iirc through a peace treaty and economically, Egypt will most likely closely search everything that is brought in so as no weapons, missiles etc. are brought into Gaza, which is the reason why the blockades have been put up. Israel and Turkey are closer economically. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt-Israel_Peace_TreatyEDIT: Well reading further in that article, it is safe to say I am completely wrong there. However iirc there was news or information about Egypt blockading Gaza strip from their borders to prevent weapons smuggling, that topic however isn't for right now.
Yes, Egypt are the ones who built the wall in the first place.
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I feel sorry for the soldiers involved. They were ordered to board the ships. And after 5 ships are successfully boarded I'm pretty sure you're thinking you've got the situation under control.
But it's not good enough to say "Oh well, mistakes happen. This is war".
No, when you board ships that are part of a humanitarian flotilla and have citizens from numerious countries including 2 German politicians then you don't get to say "casualties of war". Don't attack civilians with deadly force.
Why wasn't tear gas used? One Sergent said he was holding a paint-ball rifle. Why do you board a ship with a paint-ball gun? Can anyone say they wouldn't have pulled their pistol and considered firing into a group holding (allegedly) metal and wooden bats, knives as long as short swords and various other make-shift weapons? What if you were struck or stabbed? What a mess.
The soldiers were following orders. The people who should be investigated are the civilian Government who instructed the Navy to block any attempt for the fleet to enter Gaza and the military commanders who planned this operation.
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On June 01 2010 23:39 Subversive wrote:
I feel sorry for the soldiers involved. They were ordered to board the ships. And after 5 ships are successfully boarded I'm pretty sure you're thinking you've got the situation under control.
But it's not good enough to say "Oh well, mistakes happen. This is war".
No, when you board ships that are part of a humanitarian flotilla and have citizens from numerious countries including 2 German politicians then you don't get to say "casualties of war". Don't attack civilians with deadly force.
Why wasn't tear gas used? One Sergent said he was holding a paint-ball rifle. Why do you board a ship with a paint-ball gun? Can anyone say they wouldn't have pulled their pistol and considered firing into a group holding (allegedly) metal and wooden bats, knives as long as short swords and various other make-shift weapons? What if you were struck or stabbed? What a mess.
The soldiers were following orders. The people who should be investigated are the civilian Government who instructed the Navy to block any attempt for the fleet to enter Gaza and the military commanders who planned this operation.
Please go back to page 24 and read my post. It wouldnt make it legal even if they used cotton candies when they landed on the ship illegally.
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On June 01 2010 23:56 Armut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 23:39 Subversive wrote:
I feel sorry for the soldiers involved. They were ordered to board the ships. And after 5 ships are successfully boarded I'm pretty sure you're thinking you've got the situation under control.
But it's not good enough to say "Oh well, mistakes happen. This is war".
No, when you board ships that are part of a humanitarian flotilla and have citizens from numerious countries including 2 German politicians then you don't get to say "casualties of war". Don't attack civilians with deadly force.
Why wasn't tear gas used? One Sergent said he was holding a paint-ball rifle. Why do you board a ship with a paint-ball gun? Can anyone say they wouldn't have pulled their pistol and considered firing into a group holding (allegedly) metal and wooden bats, knives as long as short swords and various other make-shift weapons? What if you were struck or stabbed? What a mess.
The soldiers were following orders. The people who should be investigated are the civilian Government who instructed the Navy to block any attempt for the fleet to enter Gaza and the military commanders who planned this operation. Please go back to page 24 and read my post. It wouldnt make it legal even if they used cotton candies when they landed on the ship illegally.
The legality of boarding the ship has not been resolved.
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On June 01 2010 23:56 Armut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 23:39 Subversive wrote:
I feel sorry for the soldiers involved. They were ordered to board the ships. And after 5 ships are successfully boarded I'm pretty sure you're thinking you've got the situation under control.
But it's not good enough to say "Oh well, mistakes happen. This is war".
No, when you board ships that are part of a humanitarian flotilla and have citizens from numerious countries including 2 German politicians then you don't get to say "casualties of war". Don't attack civilians with deadly force.
Why wasn't tear gas used? One Sergent said he was holding a paint-ball rifle. Why do you board a ship with a paint-ball gun? Can anyone say they wouldn't have pulled their pistol and considered firing into a group holding (allegedly) metal and wooden bats, knives as long as short swords and various other make-shift weapons? What if you were struck or stabbed? What a mess.
The soldiers were following orders. The people who should be investigated are the civilian Government who instructed the Navy to block any attempt for the fleet to enter Gaza and the military commanders who planned this operation. Please go back to page 24 and read my post. It wouldnt make it legal even if they used cotton candies when they landed on the ship illegally.
Go back to any of my posts. I condemn this and think Israel is responsible for every single person wounded and killed in this event.
Just because I don't like your comments concerning:
Turkish people (at least most of us) know that the pro israelist jews in America, ruling the biggest corporations and supporting Israel by controling the state organs or pressuring them with lobbies.
doesn't mean I don't think Turkey has been vastly and wrongly injured by Israel's illegal actions.
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On June 01 2010 22:19 beetlejuice wrote:
There will be no action taken about this incident, like any others, the slaughterfest will go on.
Proof:
Year 1967, during the 6-Day War, the U.S. -declared her neutrality, wanted to see the development in the region thus sent the ship "USS Liberty" to east mediterranian.
Armed with light weapons, the USS Liberty carried military officials and civilians, also carried a large sized flag of the U.S.
At noon, Israeli jets' attacks started on the USS Liberty, attacks with machine guns and rockets are followed by "Napalm Bombs".
Having high military officials and civilian crew dead, the U.S. soldiers called help from an "aircraft carrier ship".
2 "F-4" took-off with Nuclear weapons to retaliate Israel. But when the transmission of that took-off reached Pentagon and Ministry of Defence, McNamara, he raged and ordered planes to immediately come back.
the USS Liberty, got attacked for 2,5 hours, had 34 dead and 177 injured.
Israel declared that it was an accident.
For 43 years, not a single U.S. President asked for any junctions about this attack.
Wow the Wikipedia article regarding that incident involves more conspiracy theory being detailed seriously than any article I have ever read. Kind of crazy if any of it were true...
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EPT
