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hacpee
United States752 Posts
They're getting free food at a restaurant, which you're paying for whilst not getting any benefit from it yourself. Ok. Why complain about the freeloaders and not the restaurant? Wow are you an idiot? If someone steals my money and buys a snack with the money do I complain about the crook or the convenience store? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:30 fight_or_flight wrote: People don't understand that this country can only support a limited number of immigrants per year. What is that number, and how did you or the state come to know it? On May 13 2010 12:30 fight_or_flight wrote: These illegals crossing the boarder are likely making it difficult for others to get in to the US, such as those from Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe, etc. How is that fair? How is a mexican crossing the border impeding someone from moving in? Directly, impossible. If you mean the state is tightening quotas due to illegal immigration, well, then, I'd say it's the state's decision, and the state's making alone that's making it difficult for others to come  On May 13 2010 12:30 fight_or_flight wrote: On top of it, there is a strong movement within the illegal hispanic community that is very un-american. For example, all those students who walked out when some kids wore an american flag on cinco de mayo and were sent home...that was a wtf moment for me. I see very terrifying things about americans too, like, wanting to blow up the middle east and stuff.  No merit in either argument. | ||
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
Studies have shown people will very often pick healthier choices if they are presented with the information and a healthier option. That information and a healthier option is typically not available for the average dude to make that choice that is ultimately better for them in the long run. So, of course the company would want to supply X (but almost everyone could agree that its in the best interests of society if X is healthier food). | ||
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Molkovien
Denmark59 Posts
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:30 fight_or_flight wrote: That was a WTF moment for me too as a member of the ACLU. Personally, I want to work towards an America where nobody is offended by a damn American flag. But it takes work. I don't get why enforcing immigration laws is such a big problem. If there is a hispanic guy who doesn't speak english, odds are he is illegal. Yet currently, illegals aren't deported. People don't understand that this country can only support a limited number of immigrants per year. These illegals crossing the boarder are likely making it difficult for others to get in to the US, such as those from Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe, etc. How is that fair? On top of it, there is a strong movement within the illegal hispanic community that is very un-american. For example, all those students who walked out when some kids wore an american flag on cinco de mayo and were sent home...that was a wtf moment for me. I don't think anyone is saying (except for some libertarians who want cheap labor etc etc) that we shouldn't enforce border controls. Most people I know in the ACLU don't consider the price payed in personal liberty to be worth the rounding up of a handful of immigrants already in the US. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:14 Yurebis wrote: Do the illegal immigrants pay taxes or not? Which taxes are they not paying? Which services are they using that they're not paying? Why not get to the crust of it and ask (+answer) yourself these questions before complaining about freeloading illegal aliens? All the more reason that we need people living here to be documented rather than undocumented. So long as they remain undocumented, we'll never know, will we? On May 13 2010 12:14 Yurebis wrote: Because as far as I know, they do pay for most public utilities that people complain about. Such as? On May 13 2010 12:14 Yurebis wrote: I just like to keep people honest. Once they realize that it's an outrageous idea, the whole statist argument falls... And that's even regardless of what I say. They'll know it when they'll know it. When there's no demand, the suppliers have to shut down... so if there's no demand for absolute landlords, then there won't be any more absolute landlords any further. Same with public, unaccounted services. The government and state are important and necessary despite any and all arguments you may make against them. To me, you seem very idealistic, but not very practical. There will always be landlords whether or not people want them or like them. On May 13 2010 12:14 Yurebis wrote: The theater wasn't designed to show movies to everyone, it was designed to make a profit And before you ask, profit isn't a bad motive. I'm not explaining why, here, however. I never said profit was a bad motive. Just like a theater isn't designed to show movies to its patrons. Likewise, a government is designed with its citizens in mind. The government isn't a buffet table for anyone to come and take what they please. The government is very much like a business in that it has to manage its flow of resources, make investments, and maintain financial stability. On May 13 2010 12:14 Yurebis wrote: Limited budget? The state has a limited budget now? Since when? Before or after the trillion dollar deficit? Yes, despite what you may have heard, resources are limited... Hence, the word DEFICIT in budget deficit... | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:40 Romantic wrote: That was a WTF moment for me too as a member of the ACLU. Personally, I want to work towards an America where nobody is offended by a damn American flag. But it takes work. I don't think anyone is saying (except for some libertarians who want cheap labor etc etc) that we shouldn't enforce border controls. Most people I know in the ACLU don't consider the price payed in personal liberty to be worth the rounding up of a handful of immigrants already in the US. Why do you keep calling them immigrants? They are not immigrants. They are illegals. | ||
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:33 hacpee wrote: Wow are you an idiot? If someone steals my money and buys a snack with the money do I complain about the crook or the convenience store? 1- The public funds are not yours. You forfeited them once you payed your taxes. Complain with the restaurant aka state. Vote wiser, send letters, all that wonderful democratic stuff. 2- The illegal aliens are not stealing from the public funds. The hospitals emergency rooms and schools are open tho whoever lives nearby. They do not ask for social security numbers or proof of citizenship for that exact reason. They could very well do so, but it would break the purpose of having a local public service. The illegal aliens are not stealing by entering and using them. On May 13 2010 12:38 Romantic wrote: My argument is most people are completely oblivious to the actual content of what they are eating in a Big Mac. You can say that they should look for it themselves and it isn't the governments business, but the information literally would not exist if it weren't for government forcing the information to be available. Studies have shown people will very often pick healthier choices if they are presented with the information and a healthier option. That information and a healthier option is typically not available for the average dude to make that choice that is ultimately better for them in the long run. So, of course the company would want to supply X (but almost everyone could agree that its in the best interests of society if X is healthier food). So to dumb things down for me, you mean there was this very life-standard-raising procedure that was unknown to all but government, and they selflessly obligated everyone to follow it for their own good? I don't get how wouldn't it be freely adopted if it was recognized as so. You think it's so, people who read those labels think it's so, I think it's so too. Why the heck would a company not put those on to outperform companies that do not on this very useful and cheap procedure? | ||
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:46 hacpee wrote: Granted. I almost edited it to say illegal immigrant but figured it wasn't worth it. I know they are illegals. Why do you keep calling them immigrants? They are not immigrants. They are illegals. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:48 JinMaikeul wrote: Yurebis, let's just get down to it. What's the actual point that you're trying to make? I see a lot of quoting and responding, but little in the way of a cohesive message or opinion... Is it wrong to argue for the sake of arguing? | ||
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:46 Yurebis wrote: No, I don't want to FORCE anyone to follow a healthy diet as defined by experts, but I do want them to be informed on the options overwhelmingly shown to promote long, healthy life. All it would require is a menu with nutritional info on it. 1- The public funds are not yours. You forfeited them once you payed your taxes. Complain with the restaurant aka state. Vote wiser, send letters, all that wonderful democratic stuff. 2- The illegal aliens are not stealing from the public funds. The hospitals emergency rooms and schools are open tho whoever lives nearby. They do not ask for social security numbers or proof of citizenship for that exact reason. They could very well do so, but it would break the purpose of having a local public service. The illegal aliens are not stealing by entering and using them. So to dumb things down for me, you mean there was this very life-standard-raising procedure that was unknown to all but government, and they selflessly obligated everyone to follow it for their own good? I don't get how wouldn't it be freely adopted if it was recognized as so. You think it's so, people who read those labels think it's so, I think it's so too. Why the heck would a company not put those on to outperform companies that do not on this very useful and cheap procedure? Forcing them to do it would be what some Democrats have been trying to do, literally making it illegal to sell high fat content foods, denying any option to eat something unhealthy if you felt like it. I just want nutritional information to be available everywhere large chain restaurants serve people. If the average person decides to continue eating Big Macs after being given the nutritional information, I would let them do it (were i a politician). | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:46 Yurebis wrote: 1- The public funds are not yours. You forfeited them once you payed your taxes. Complain with the restaurant aka state. Vote wiser, send letters, all that wonderful democratic stuff. 2- The illegal aliens are not stealing from the public funds. The hospitals emergency rooms and schools are open tho whoever lives nearby. They do not ask for social security numbers or proof of citizenship for that exact reason. They could very well do so, but it would break the purpose of having a local public service. The illegal aliens are not stealing by entering and using them. Why do you keep making the stupid restaurant analogy? You make no sense. If someone was eating restaurant food for free and it was because of him that I didn't get my order, I would give him an ass whooping. Next time, he'll know better. | ||
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:42 JinMaikeul wrote: All the more reason that we need people living here to be documented rather than undocumented. So long as they remain undocumented, we'll never know, will we? You mean no one knows these things? 1- do illegal immigrants pay taxes or not? which? Should be easily answered by any tax expert or enthusiast (lol tax enthusiast.. sounds wrong) 2-Which services are they using? Should be easily answered by knowing what public services can be used without a social security number.. 3-Why not ask yourself that? Should be able to be answered without recoursing to "I can't answer it unless everyone is documented and therefore there are no illegal aliens to account for" ... School for sure, through property tax, and I'm not sure but I'd say public hospitals' emergency rooms too, eagerly waiting to be corrected. On May 13 2010 12:42 JinMaikeul wrote: The government and state are important and necessary despite any and all arguments you may make against them. To me, you seem very idealistic, but not very practical. There will always be landlords whether or not people want them or like them. Landlords, yeah, but absolute landlords that reign over all other landlords, seems silly to me. And it will indeed go on despite what I say, as long as people like you demand it (even without any logically explained reason)On May 13 2010 12:42 JinMaikeul wrote: I never said profit was a bad motive. Just like a theater isn't designed to show movies to its patrons. Likewise, a government is designed with its citizens in mind. The government isn't a buffet table for anyone to come and take what they please. The government is very much like a business in that it has to manage its flow of resources, make investments, and maintain financial stability. But without the competition. And only as much fiscal responsibility as it takes for them to keep afloat (borderline revolution lol) On May 13 2010 12:42 JinMaikeul wrote: Yes, despite what you may have heard, resources are limited... Hence, the word DEFICIT in budget deficit... haha It's limited by how much they can owe? doesn't sound that financially hard to manage to me, nor conventional finance for that matter | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:55 Yurebis wrote: You mean no one knows these things? 1- do illegal immigrants pay taxes or not? which? Should be easily answered by any tax expert or enthusiast (lol tax enthusiast.. sounds wrong) 2-Which services are they using? Should be easily answered by knowing what public services can be used without a social security number.. 3-Why not ask yourself that? Should be able to be answered without recoursing to "I can't answer it unless everyone is documented and therefore there are no illegal aliens to account for" ... School for sure, through property tax, and I'm not sure but I'd say public hospitals' emergency rooms too, eagerly waiting to be corrected. Landlords, yeah, but absolute landlords that reign over all other landlords, seems silly to me. And it will indeed go on despite what I say, as long as people like you demand it (even without any logically explained reason)But without the competition. And only as much fiscal responsibility as it takes for them to keep afloat (borderline revolution lol) haha It's limited by how much they can owe? doesn't sound that financially hard to manage to me, nor conventional finance for that matter Dude we've answered you millions of times. Fact is that illegals take more than they give in. Fact is that illegals are Mexican citizens, they should go back to mexico. You're being just as dumb as you were in the Kespa thread where you didn't even know what Kespa was yet you made pages of arguments. | ||
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:48 JinMaikeul wrote: Yurebis, let's just get down to it. What's the actual point that you're trying to make? I see a lot of quoting and responding, but little in the way of a cohesive message or opinion... I think I already said it in my first post in the thread? Illegal immigration is just immigration shunned upon by the state. It is otherwise just regular immigration, and there's no reason to oppose it any more than you'd oppose someone for moving from Nevada to California. I find it a bit fun. Not gonna lie. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
Not necessarily, but it's a waste of everyone's time if all he's going to do is argue against what other people say while never really saying anything himself. It makes it worse when it feels like he's saying one thing one moment and another thing another moment so long as it conflicts with the other person's statements. | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On May 13 2010 12:58 JinMaikeul wrote: Not necessarily, but it's a waste of everyone's time if all he's going to do is argue against what other people say while never really saying anything himself. It makes it worse when it feels like he's saying one thing one moment and another thing another moment so long as it conflicts with the other person's statements. He's just randomly saying random stuff. I think he's mentally confused. | ||
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URfavHO
United States514 Posts
On May 12 2010 10:07 poor newb wrote: you get what you vote for If memory serves correctly, california voted to not give illegal immigrants benefits, like welfare, but the state courts overturned this. personally, as long as illegal immigrants are paying a share of the taxes and are productive members of society, that's ok with me. and if they aren't, then they can go defecate on themselves. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
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