EPTNvidia the new 3dfx? - Page 6
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
In the end, reliability and availability count more than benchmarks for most people. It explained why many companies stuck with Intel even when it was going through its P4 performance dip and ATI's server computing advantage with the Opteron. nVidia's manufacturing flaw, its PR fiasco, and the lack of general availability of any new hardware on both sides just means that everyone is competing based on the last generation of GPUs and the ATI 4870's beat nVidia's GTX285 on price-performace. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On January 09 2010 17:44 R1CH wrote: It's very telling that NVIDIA hasn't released a new product since the GT200 series in mid-2008. Their previous cycle was a new product every six months, now they are just constantly rehashing the GT200. If their next card fails I think it will have a very serious impact on their ability to remain competitive with ATI finally becoming a serious contender. And at that point people can start to talk about them doing badly over the next few years. The graphics market is the not the same as it used to be. This is a fun and interesting story, but anyone that draws a conclusion that a company as huge and successful (in the long term, and somewhat in the short term) as nVidia is gonna pull a 3dfx is just fooling themselves. The thing about being in a market of two competitors and being the top competitor is this: it's actually not a bad strategy to sit on your ass and have people send you their cash. You do little work (less investment in risky/newer technology) and still make approximately the same money in the short term. When your competition looks like it might be accomplishing something, you wake up from naptime and have a go at it again. This is simply a case of not enough competition coming from ATI. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On January 10 2010 05:31 TanGeng wrote: In the end, reliability and availability count more than benchmarks for most people. It explained why many companies stuck with Intel even when it was going through its P4 performance dip and ATI's server computing advantage with the Opteron. They stuck with Intel because of its anti competitive practice I doubt Intel has been fined 1+ billion for nothing -.- | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5668 Posts
If it wasn't due to Hector Ruiz's deal with ATIC(Advanced Technology Investment Company) of Abu Dhabi and the Asset Light model, AMD would probably have gone bankrupt. AMD collaborated with ATIC to create a company called Global Foundries, which now own the Dresden FAB that AMD used to run. AMD got an infusion of cash, while still maintining a 50%(aprox) stake in GF. AMD then turned over to be a pure Design company, just like Nvidia is and ATI used to be. The reduced cost of not having to pay for the fabs anymore allowed AMD to get somewhat back on it heels, and buy itself more time until they can release a competetive product. It's not secret that it's the CPU division of AMD that is pulling in the big cash. Even with the graphics division doing so well lately, it's not pulling in more than maybe a couple hundred millions $ per quarter. AMD still has a huge debt, around 4-5 Billion Dollars and it really needs to release a killer product if it wants to stay in the game. Alot hinges on the upcoming release of "Bulldozer" which will be released in First half of 2011 | ||
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
On January 10 2010 06:44 ruXxar wrote: AMD was really closing to going under itself about 2 years ago. If it wasn't due to Hector Ruiz's deal with ATIC(Advanced Technology Investment Company) of Abu Dhabi and the Asset Light model, AMD would probably have gone bankrupt. AMD collaborated with ATIC to create a company called Global Foundries, which now own the Dresden FAB that AMD used to run. AMD got an infusion of cash, while still maintining a 50%(aprox) stake in GF. AMD then turned over to be a pure Design company, just like Nvidia is and ATI used to be. The reduced cost of not having to pay for the fabs anymore allowed AMD to get somewhat back on it heels, and buy itself more time until they can release a competetive product. It's not secret that it's the CPU division of AMD that is pulling in the big cash. Even with the graphics division doing so well lately, it's not pulling in more than maybe a couple hundred millions $ per quarter. AMD still has a huge debt, around 4-5 Billion Dollars and it really needs to release a killer product if it wants to stay in the game. Alot hinges on the upcoming release of "Bulldozer" which will be released in First half of 2011 Hexa-core 32nm parts ftw. I wonder how long it will be until we see 4ghz stock clocks. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:01 peidongyang wrote: Intel isn't going to be buying nVid soon. Not after nVid said one day many years ago that the CPU will be phased out by a unified GPU... The funny part (not for nVidia) is that it's now the other way around. Intel, AMD, and ATI have all put signifigant money into integrating the GPU into the CPU, rather than the other way around, and intel just released new processors which did just that, integrating the GPU into the CPU. I don't really know much about how they run and how they overclock, but i imagine we'll eventually have CPU's with integrated gpu's that are as powerful as they are now, making for like a 250 watt+ processor on like a 2500 pin socket, but reducing the total size of the computers by a lot. Unfortunately nVidia hasn't put any money at all into CPU/GPU integration so they'll probably be left in the dust in that aspect. I don't think we'll see the company outright fail, but if somehow they actually fail to release Fermi i don't think they'll ever completely recover. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17208 Posts
ATI can't have it = it sucks (see something with and without PhysX engine, like Mirror's Edge, and the difference is horrendeous). | ||
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
On January 10 2010 17:59 Manit0u wrote: Oh, I would forget to add one important thing to the discussion: PhysX. ATI can't have it = it sucks (see something with and without PhysX engine, like Mirror's Edge, and the difference is horrendeous). Dude, PhysX is just a gimmick. There are other, more easily implemented, and either open source or cheaper to license physics systems. Nvidia is definitely trying to sell Physyx as some sort of gaming revolution when in reality it has very little to do with anything. | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
The Way Its Meant To Be Played is also a dirty scam. They paid to have Assassin's Creed PC remove DX10.1 support after the game had already come out because nVidia cards didn't have it, but ATI cards did, and it made the game run better on ATI cards. PhysX is also a bit of a scam. That stuff can be done using non-proprietary code, but nVidia pays TWIMTBP partners to exclusively use PhysX so they can claim their cards can do something that ATI cards can't. Basically, nVidia is evil. Instead of just doing their best to be better, they pay game developers/publishers to give them an unfair advantage against ATI. Their price/performance ratio has been worse than ATI ever since the HD4800 series came out, and when the GT300 series finally comes out this spring, it'll be overpriced for the performance yet again, since the massive die size and production yield problems will make the chips way more expensive to produce than the HD5800 series. Not only will the GT300 be 6 months late, but insanely priced. nVidia is going to have a tough year. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On January 10 2010 18:10 Zzoram wrote: The Way Its Meant To Be Played is also a dirty scam. They paid to have Assassin's Creed PC remove DX10.1 support after the game had already come out because nVidia cards didn't have it, but ATI cards did, and it made the game run better on ATI cards. lol I had no idea they did that. That's fucked up wow. | ||
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
On January 11 2010 06:02 Drowsy wrote: lol I had no idea they did that. That's fucked up wow. A lot of people aren't aware of that TWIMTBP bullshit. For example, the framerates people using nVidia cards experience in Borderlands are 10x smoother than they are on ATI cards. It's almost as if the game plays differently, and on ATI cards it always feels like sub 30 fps even though it's often far over that. | ||
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
On January 10 2010 18:10 Zzoram wrote: and when the GT300 series finally comes out this spring, it'll be overpriced for the performance yet again, since the massive die size and production yield problems will make the chips way more expensive to produce than the HD5800 series. Not only will the GT300 be 6 months late, but insanely priced. nVidia is going to have a tough year. Consider this: When the gtx280 first launched, it's prices were everywhere from $400 to $600. It's 200x200mm die, with about a 60% yield rate, was rather expensive to produce but was still able to give off enough performance that nVidia was doing okay. The gt300 is supposedly 320x320mm+, and with a 2% yield rate we can only imagine what the prices will be. I'm expecting something around $600+ for the premium (gtx380 or whatever) card, and probably between 200 and 300 for the gtx360. | ||
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
I know im quoting faud here but he has a valid point http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15834/1/ http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15794/34/ You guys forget both Nvidia and ATI practice giving away free money free work to game devs which improves the quality by alot. Nvidia has a strong PR and marketing team so they came up with TWIMTBP it's also why there are alot of Nvidia edition crap like cases. People think Nvidia will be like 3dFX you mean bought out and melded into another company but wait that is ATI lol only diff is that ATI's brand name wasn't bad enough yet so AMD kept it. Nvidia is the last great public Graphics card maker Matrox is a specialty and privately own 3dfx was bought out by nvidia ATI was bought out by AMD ionno what S3 does anymore creative jumped out of that business intel only does igp so for nvidia to fall would be a great hurt to the graphics card business and competition AMD would jack up the price modeling for the cards in an instant. | ||
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
On January 11 2010 07:55 Virtue wrote: What is this turning into a nvidia hate thread? I know im quoting faud here but he has a valid point http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15834/1/ http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15794/34/ You guys forget both Nvidia and ATI practice giving away free money free work to game devs which improves the quality by alot. Nvidia has a strong PR and marketing team so they came up with TWIMTBP it's also why there are alot of Nvidia edition crap like cases. People think Nvidia will be like 3dFX you mean bought out and melded into another company but wait that is ATI lol only diff is that ATI's brand name wasn't bad enough yet so AMD kept it. Nvidia is the last great public Graphics card maker Matrox is a specialty and privately own 3dfx was bought out by nvidia ATI was bought out by AMD ionno what S3 does anymore creative jumped out of that business intel only does igp so for nvidia to fall would be a great hurt to the graphics card business and competition AMD would jack up the price modeling for the cards in an instant. So you're saying that TWIMTBP isn't a rather unfair business practice? I'm sure being bribed to give performance advantages to Nvidia cards is great for the developers at those companies. Also i think you're over-estimating the value of a Nvidia being the "last great public graphics card maker". Nvidia still hasn't realized that within a surprisingly short amount of time they will be outdated when you take into considering that CPU/GPU integration is moving ahead by leaps and bounds. The fact is that Nvidia has done great damage to themselves, and even to the market, with their business practices, and if they fail and are bought out by intel or something, it will only be their fault. | ||
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