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Obama's Healthcare Speech - Page 3

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Orbifold
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1922 Posts
September 10 2009 01:39 GMT
#41
I cannot believe that a sitting congressman called the President of the United States of America a liar in the middle of a speech to a joint session of congress. Absolutely shameful.
Allow me to reintroduce myself...
Grommit
Profile Joined February 2009
United States162 Posts
September 10 2009 01:40 GMT
#42
This thread will not be any fun until Aegraen shows up.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
September 10 2009 01:41 GMT
#43
On September 10 2009 10:40 Grommit wrote:
This thread will not be any fun until Aegraen shows up.

Aegraen was just temp banned for 30 days by Manifesto7.

That account was created on 2009-05-07 23:29:31 and had 1188 posts.

Reason: Perhaps you think that people on a VIDEO GAME FORUM are not well rounded enough to talk about things like body building. Perhaps you and your condescending attitude should find a place more suited to your interests.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101522&currentpage=last

sorry dude
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
September 10 2009 01:45 GMT
#44
Obama's speech was great. I didn't agree with everything he said, but he gave just enough detail about the direction he wants to go in without mucking up his message with confusing technical stuff. Speeches like this aren't to lay out his plan in every detail, but to inspire average Americans and show that he is clear and confident about what he wants to do.
ultramagnetics
Profile Joined March 2009
Poland215 Posts
September 10 2009 01:46 GMT
#45
Anyone have a link to other parts of the video. All I can find on youtube/googlevideo is:


..but this is only the first part... a live stream doesn't help if you missed the beginning already.
TeCh)PsylO
Profile Joined October 2002
United States3552 Posts
September 10 2009 01:48 GMT
#46
On September 10 2009 10:12 Mystlord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 10:08 Tien wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:01 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Camille Paglia had it exactly right: http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/09/09/healthcare/

Obama is such a master speaker. He's inspiring and powerful, but it's unfortunate for the rest of us that he's not addressing very serious concerns, such as the fine details of cost, coverage, and tax increases. He's right that we can't stick with the status quo, but this bill isn't going to fix anything.



Hey my favourite republican!


How's that war on terror / Iraqi war / Weapons of mass destruction thingy doing? I thought someone a few years ago said it was working........



I'm just trolling.


I agree Obama hasn't addressed the actual high cost of medication.


Here in Canada, there is a cap on how much drug companies can charge for medications meanwhile in the United States there is no cap.

My uncle (a doctor), was telling me that the drug companies have a dominant control over the politics involving cost of medecine.



We shall see how this proceeds.

Pretty much. I like this speech, but it fails to address the fundamental problems of our heatlh care system. It's like putting a bigger and bigger band-aid over a slowly growing wound.



The people in the room know the fundamental problems, and the details. It seems he was really speaking to the people at home, attempting to change the tone of the public conversation to put more pressure on "moderates". The more he talks about common goals and American ideals, the harder it is for right-wing spokesman like Palin and Limbaugh to bash his platform. That has really been the problem with this debate, it is being manipulated by unintelligent ideologues. Obama needs to marginalize these people (he certainly has the political skill to do so), and focus on the consequences of not taking any action. Republicans are significantly more politically savvy in their ability to shape the public debate, but the reality of our health care system is dire enough to speak for itself. Anyone who has dealt with medical issues, and has at least looked at an itemized bill will not argue against health care reform.
People change, then forget to tell each other - Susan Scott
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-10 02:01:56
September 10 2009 01:49 GMT
#47
On September 10 2009 10:46 ultramagnetics wrote:
Anyone have a link to other parts of the video. All I can find on youtube/googlevideo is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkNK_ce19V8

..but this is only the first part... a live stream doesn't help if you missed the beginning already.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/obama-health-care-speech_n_281265.html

The bottom of the article.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
s_side
Profile Joined May 2009
United States700 Posts
September 10 2009 01:51 GMT
#48
On September 10 2009 10:20 Last Romantic wrote:
Haha I love how Obama says 'we need to pass this' for about 3, 4 months without giving any details

and now when he's supposed to be 'giving details' they're vague and not particularly helpful.

I find Obama a charismatic and intelligent individual, but this whole healthcare thing is a morass of idiocy.


My main issue with Obama is the scare tactics. The way he pushed the "stimulus" bill through was waaaaaaay too reminiscent of the Bush adminstration's actions surrounding the Patriot Act. It was a disgusting display of fear-mongering and, ironically (considering Obama sold himself as a champion of transparency), opacity.

The same thing is happening with the craze surrounding health care reform. Obama and his cohorts in congress are decrying Republican nonsense such as "death panels" (which I believe they should), but they are just as guilty of using fear and, as Democratic politicians have for a few decades now, condescension to push their agenda.
TeCh)PsylO
Profile Joined October 2002
United States3552 Posts
September 10 2009 01:54 GMT
#49
On September 10 2009 10:51 s_side wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 10:20 Last Romantic wrote:
Haha I love how Obama says 'we need to pass this' for about 3, 4 months without giving any details

and now when he's supposed to be 'giving details' they're vague and not particularly helpful.

I find Obama a charismatic and intelligent individual, but this whole healthcare thing is a morass of idiocy.


My main issue with Obama is the scare tactics. The way he pushed the "stimulus" bill through was waaaaaaay too reminiscent of the Bush adminstration's actions surrounding the Patriot Act. It was a disgusting display of fear-mongering and, ironically (considering Obama sold himself as a champion of transparency), opacity.

The same thing is happening with the craze surrounding health care reform. Obama and his cohorts in congress are decrying Republican nonsense such as "death panels" (which I believe they should), but they are just as guilty of using fear and, as Democratic politicians have for a few decades now, condescension to push their agenda.


Didn't Bush pass the stimulus bill? Maybe that's why it is reminiscent of Bush. To be fair, both the credit crisis and the health care industry are/were very serious and need serious attention. As Obama said, we can't keep pushing solutions back term after term because it is politically comfortable.
People change, then forget to tell each other - Susan Scott
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
September 10 2009 01:58 GMT
#50
On September 10 2009 10:51 s_side wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 10:20 Last Romantic wrote:
Haha I love how Obama says 'we need to pass this' for about 3, 4 months without giving any details

and now when he's supposed to be 'giving details' they're vague and not particularly helpful.

I find Obama a charismatic and intelligent individual, but this whole healthcare thing is a morass of idiocy.


My main issue with Obama is the scare tactics. The way he pushed the "stimulus" bill through was waaaaaaay too reminiscent of the Bush adminstration's actions surrounding the Patriot Act. It was a disgusting display of fear-mongering and, ironically (considering Obama sold himself as a champion of transparency), opacity.

The same thing is happening with the craze surrounding health care reform. Obama and his cohorts in congress are decrying Republican nonsense such as "death panels" (which I believe they should), but they are just as guilty of using fear and, as Democratic politicians have for a few decades now, condescension to push their agenda.

I don't blame the last administration for forcing the Patriot Act (which is mostly a benign bill with a few terribly intrusive provisions) and I don't blame Obama for forcing the stimulus bill. In Bush's case, it rewally looked like our country was under attack, and in Obama's case, our economy was in the shitter. I don't see any malevolent intent from either president.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
September 10 2009 01:59 GMT
#51
On September 10 2009 10:54 TeCh)PsylO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 10:51 s_side wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:20 Last Romantic wrote:
Haha I love how Obama says 'we need to pass this' for about 3, 4 months without giving any details

and now when he's supposed to be 'giving details' they're vague and not particularly helpful.

I find Obama a charismatic and intelligent individual, but this whole healthcare thing is a morass of idiocy.


My main issue with Obama is the scare tactics. The way he pushed the "stimulus" bill through was waaaaaaay too reminiscent of the Bush adminstration's actions surrounding the Patriot Act. It was a disgusting display of fear-mongering and, ironically (considering Obama sold himself as a champion of transparency), opacity.

The same thing is happening with the craze surrounding health care reform. Obama and his cohorts in congress are decrying Republican nonsense such as "death panels" (which I believe they should), but they are just as guilty of using fear and, as Democratic politicians have for a few decades now, condescension to push their agenda.


Didn't Bush pass the stimulus bill? Maybe that's why it is reminiscent of Bush. To be fair, both the credit crisis and the health care industry are/were very serious and need serious attention. As Obama said, we can't keep pushing solutions back term after term because it is politically comfortable.

Bush and the Democratic congress passed the bailout. Obama passed the stimulus bill.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
September 10 2009 02:02 GMT
#52
On September 10 2009 10:48 TeCh)PsylO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 10:12 Mystlord wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:08 Tien wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:01 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Camille Paglia had it exactly right: http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/09/09/healthcare/

Obama is such a master speaker. He's inspiring and powerful, but it's unfortunate for the rest of us that he's not addressing very serious concerns, such as the fine details of cost, coverage, and tax increases. He's right that we can't stick with the status quo, but this bill isn't going to fix anything.



Hey my favourite republican!


How's that war on terror / Iraqi war / Weapons of mass destruction thingy doing? I thought someone a few years ago said it was working........



I'm just trolling.


I agree Obama hasn't addressed the actual high cost of medication.


Here in Canada, there is a cap on how much drug companies can charge for medications meanwhile in the United States there is no cap.

My uncle (a doctor), was telling me that the drug companies have a dominant control over the politics involving cost of medecine.



We shall see how this proceeds.

Pretty much. I like this speech, but it fails to address the fundamental problems of our heatlh care system. It's like putting a bigger and bigger band-aid over a slowly growing wound.



The people in the room know the fundamental problems, and the details. It seems he was really speaking to the people at home, attempting to change the tone of the public conversation to put more pressure on "moderates". The more he talks about common goals and American ideals, the harder it is for right-wing spokesman like Palin and Limbaugh to bash his platform. That has really been the problem with this debate, it is being manipulated by unintelligent ideologues. Obama needs to marginalize these people (he certainly has the political skill to do so), and focus on the consequences of not taking any action. Republicans are significantly more politically savvy in their ability to shape the public debate, but the reality of our health care system is dire enough to speak for itself. Anyone who has dealt with medical issues, and has at least looked at an itemized bill will not argue against health care reform.

If they know the fundamental problems, why aren't they dealing with them? It will probably take longer than Obama's current term to fix the underlying problems of our health care system. At the very least, Medicare needs to be completely reworked because this incentives system isn't working. By our current health care system, tests = money for doctors. Even if they're junk tests. If you ask me, we're just running a moral hazard economy system for health care. It's not in the doctors' best interests to do an x-ray to confirm a diagnosis if he can get more money for an MRI. This also leads to waste, which leads to rising costs. This bill isn't addressing these problems, it's just expanding coverage, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but you can't talk about the economy (as Obama did in the beginning of the speech), without trying to cut down on COSTS not on PRICES.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
s_side
Profile Joined May 2009
United States700 Posts
September 10 2009 02:02 GMT
#53
On September 10 2009 10:54 TeCh)PsylO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 10:51 s_side wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:20 Last Romantic wrote:
Haha I love how Obama says 'we need to pass this' for about 3, 4 months without giving any details

and now when he's supposed to be 'giving details' they're vague and not particularly helpful.

I find Obama a charismatic and intelligent individual, but this whole healthcare thing is a morass of idiocy.


My main issue with Obama is the scare tactics. The way he pushed the "stimulus" bill through was waaaaaaay too reminiscent of the Bush adminstration's actions surrounding the Patriot Act. It was a disgusting display of fear-mongering and, ironically (considering Obama sold himself as a champion of transparency), opacity.

The same thing is happening with the craze surrounding health care reform. Obama and his cohorts in congress are decrying Republican nonsense such as "death panels" (which I believe they should), but they are just as guilty of using fear and, as Democratic politicians have for a few decades now, condescension to push their agenda.


Didn't Bush pass the stimulus bill? Maybe that's why it is reminiscent of Bush. To be fair, both the credit crisis and the health care industry are/were very serious and need serious attention. As Obama said, we can't keep pushing solutions back term after term because it is politically comfortable.


The omnibus appropriations package?? Signed into law on March 11, 2009?? Don't be a dunce.

Jesus Christ, our country really is fucked.
ultramagnetics
Profile Joined March 2009
Poland215 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-10 02:25:27
September 10 2009 02:03 GMT
#54
LINK to video of full speech:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/32766830#32766830
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
September 10 2009 02:06 GMT
#55
On September 10 2009 11:02 s_side wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 10:54 TeCh)PsylO wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:51 s_side wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:20 Last Romantic wrote:
Haha I love how Obama says 'we need to pass this' for about 3, 4 months without giving any details

and now when he's supposed to be 'giving details' they're vague and not particularly helpful.

I find Obama a charismatic and intelligent individual, but this whole healthcare thing is a morass of idiocy.


My main issue with Obama is the scare tactics. The way he pushed the "stimulus" bill through was waaaaaaay too reminiscent of the Bush adminstration's actions surrounding the Patriot Act. It was a disgusting display of fear-mongering and, ironically (considering Obama sold himself as a champion of transparency), opacity.

The same thing is happening with the craze surrounding health care reform. Obama and his cohorts in congress are decrying Republican nonsense such as "death panels" (which I believe they should), but they are just as guilty of using fear and, as Democratic politicians have for a few decades now, condescension to push their agenda.


Didn't Bush pass the stimulus bill? Maybe that's why it is reminiscent of Bush. To be fair, both the credit crisis and the health care industry are/were very serious and need serious attention. As Obama said, we can't keep pushing solutions back term after term because it is politically comfortable.


The omnibus appropriations package?? Signed into law on March 11, 2009?? Don't be a dunce.

Jesus Christ, our country really is fucked.

OK, you're saying that our country is fucked because he confused the bailout with the stimulus bill? Fuck you. What a condescending post.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
s_side
Profile Joined May 2009
United States700 Posts
September 10 2009 02:07 GMT
#56
On September 10 2009 11:02 Mystlord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 10:48 TeCh)PsylO wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:12 Mystlord wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:08 Tien wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:01 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Camille Paglia had it exactly right: http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/09/09/healthcare/

Obama is such a master speaker. He's inspiring and powerful, but it's unfortunate for the rest of us that he's not addressing very serious concerns, such as the fine details of cost, coverage, and tax increases. He's right that we can't stick with the status quo, but this bill isn't going to fix anything.



Hey my favourite republican!


How's that war on terror / Iraqi war / Weapons of mass destruction thingy doing? I thought someone a few years ago said it was working........



I'm just trolling.


I agree Obama hasn't addressed the actual high cost of medication.


Here in Canada, there is a cap on how much drug companies can charge for medications meanwhile in the United States there is no cap.

My uncle (a doctor), was telling me that the drug companies have a dominant control over the politics involving cost of medecine.



We shall see how this proceeds.

Pretty much. I like this speech, but it fails to address the fundamental problems of our heatlh care system. It's like putting a bigger and bigger band-aid over a slowly growing wound.



The people in the room know the fundamental problems, and the details. It seems he was really speaking to the people at home, attempting to change the tone of the public conversation to put more pressure on "moderates". The more he talks about common goals and American ideals, the harder it is for right-wing spokesman like Palin and Limbaugh to bash his platform. That has really been the problem with this debate, it is being manipulated by unintelligent ideologues. Obama needs to marginalize these people (he certainly has the political skill to do so), and focus on the consequences of not taking any action. Republicans are significantly more politically savvy in their ability to shape the public debate, but the reality of our health care system is dire enough to speak for itself. Anyone who has dealt with medical issues, and has at least looked at an itemized bill will not argue against health care reform.

If they know the fundamental problems, why aren't they dealing with them? It will probably take longer than Obama's current term to fix the underlying problems of our health care system. At the very least, Medicare needs to be completely reworked because this incentives system isn't working. By our current health care system, tests = money for doctors. Even if they're junk tests. If you ask me, we're just running a moral hazard economy system for health care. It's not in the doctors' best interests to do an x-ray to confirm a diagnosis if he can get more money for an MRI. This also leads to waste, which leads to rising costs. This bill isn't addressing these problems, it's just expanding coverage, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but you can't talk about the economy (as Obama did in the beginning of the speech), without trying to cut down on COSTS not on PRICES.


This is par for the course for Obama. S-class presentation with C-level content and substance.
s_side
Profile Joined May 2009
United States700 Posts
September 10 2009 02:11 GMT
#57
On September 10 2009 11:06 motbob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 11:02 s_side wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:54 TeCh)PsylO wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:51 s_side wrote:
On September 10 2009 10:20 Last Romantic wrote:
Haha I love how Obama says 'we need to pass this' for about 3, 4 months without giving any details

and now when he's supposed to be 'giving details' they're vague and not particularly helpful.

I find Obama a charismatic and intelligent individual, but this whole healthcare thing is a morass of idiocy.


My main issue with Obama is the scare tactics. The way he pushed the "stimulus" bill through was waaaaaaay too reminiscent of the Bush adminstration's actions surrounding the Patriot Act. It was a disgusting display of fear-mongering and, ironically (considering Obama sold himself as a champion of transparency), opacity.

The same thing is happening with the craze surrounding health care reform. Obama and his cohorts in congress are decrying Republican nonsense such as "death panels" (which I believe they should), but they are just as guilty of using fear and, as Democratic politicians have for a few decades now, condescension to push their agenda.


Didn't Bush pass the stimulus bill? Maybe that's why it is reminiscent of Bush. To be fair, both the credit crisis and the health care industry are/were very serious and need serious attention. As Obama said, we can't keep pushing solutions back term after term because it is politically comfortable.


The omnibus appropriations package?? Signed into law on March 11, 2009?? Don't be a dunce.

Jesus Christ, our country really is fucked.

OK, you're saying that our country is fucked because he confused the bailout with the stimulus bill? Fuck you. What a condescending post.


I'm saying it's depressing and disturbing that an American doesn't know the difference between two of the most significant pieces of legislature passed in the past two years.

If you find that condescending, I apologize, but it is what it is.
BalliSLife
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
1339 Posts
September 10 2009 02:11 GMT
#58
Stay classy, Rep Joe Wilson.
Ya well, at least I don't fuck a fleshlight with a condom on and cry at the same time.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
September 10 2009 02:13 GMT
#59

This is par for the course for Obama. S-class presentation with C-level content and substance.

Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
September 10 2009 02:18 GMT
#60
You guys are already judging the content and substance of what he's achieved?
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