This is a board game I own and love but never get to play. I just thought I'd start a thread here to probe what kind of interest there is for this game. If possible it would also be fun to gather up some players and start a game online. I know there are more than a couple websites that let you play this game online.
Anyway, for the uninitiated:
Diplomacy is a game where you play as 1 of 7 great powers around the year 1900 in Europe. The game board is divided up into sea zones and provinces. Some of the provinces are victory points. And for each of these victory points you own, you get one army unit or one navy unit. Army units can only move on land or be transported by navy units. Navy units function much the same as Army units. They can move on sea zones and coastal provinces. So you will often have navies fighting armies on the coast.
As opposed to games where each player takes his turn, in diplomacy everyone takes their turn at the same time. This is done by everyone secretly submiting orders for each of their units. Afterwards, all the moves are processed together at the same time according to the rules.
The game in entirely deterministic. Actions are not decided by dice. Instead, battles are won by having a stronger attack than the other person has defense. This gets tricky, because one of the rules in the game is that within a sea zone or province there can only be one unit. The way to strengthen an attack or defense is to order a neighbouring unit to support that attack or defense. Battles will usually end with the losing party having to withdraw from the province to an adjacent one. Sometimes the army unit will be destroyed. However you will get it back shortly later because you still get to have as many army units as you have victory points.
So battles are not about killing armies, it's about gaining control of victory points. The game ends once one of the players is able to hold onto half of the victory points on the board.
Two countries working together will almost always be more powerful than if they stand alone. They can attack a country from different directions. That forces the victim to split his units to defend. They can also support each others attacks or ferry the other country's armies across the sea. But working together comes at a cost. If your alliance is successful enough, you will eventually need to turn towards your ally's victory points. Trust between the partners in an alliance is required but too much is a liability. If you let him take the first victory point with your help, how will you know you will get the next? How do you know that this is actually an alliance and not just manipulation to try to put your defenses in disarray?
EDIT: PM Macavenger if you want to join game 3. Also try PMing Falcynn. I might try to organize another game sometime mid-august if there is still interest.
I'll just warn people that have never played before that it takes a while before you understand the rules. So be prepared to read the manual for an hour or two before actual play commences. And even then experienced players will probably see weakness in you and either decide you are easy to overrun or that you are too unreliable to make an alliance with.
This game is sooooo gooood! A little long though, and I don't have that kind of time nowadays. I guess for those who want a basic view of what type of game this is, it's kind of like Risk without the dice (that's a really loose description). I absolutely URGE anybody who is into strategy type games and has some free time to check this out.
Looks interesting, but I'm not sure i'm willing to spend an entire night playing only one instance of one game. The rules sound interesting, having no dice and all. Are all 7 starting nations equally balanced?
The way they made everything 'realistic', (see video 4 above) even taking into account some canals that were built irl is kind of silly, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of abstraction if it means the rules are going to be a lot simpler.
Oh, and for the true diplomat, check out the game of Nomic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic). It leaves out the board and pieces altogether and only involves rules.
Actually, if this was going to be played online, it would rather be a more "by-email" type of game where messages are sent and received and order deadlines would be something like 1 day apart. So there wouldn't be any sitting around waiting for everyone to finish their turn. The game would be maybe just 5 minutes per day over a period of time, depending on how many lies you want to transmit per turn. It's quite different than having everyone gathered around the board at someone's home. Because then a lot of time is spent waiting for other people to finish their secret negotiations in the kitchen.
Sadly, starting positions are not fully balanced. Italy is said to have a poor starting position, mostly because lasting alliances come in pairs and no one wants to ally fully with Italy for tactical reasons. However, in a game like Diplomacy imbalances are balanced out by the 6 losing players trying to make sure the leader doesn't win.
On June 02 2009 08:04 aseq wrote: The way they made everything 'realistic', (see video 4 above) even taking into account some canals that were built irl is kind of silly, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of abstraction if it means the rules are going to be a lot simpler.
Funny you should mention the canals. In every game of Diplomacy I've played, someone's misunderstood how the canal in Germany works. On some Diplomacy boards it causes more confusion than on others. That being said, I think the game itself is pretty abstract, far more than a game like Axis & Allies or Risk.
Diplomacy is amazing, I haven't had a chance to play in a couple years. I'd totally love to get involved in an online game.
As far as balance, it's not perfect, but its plenty good enough for most purposes. I think the percentage of solo victories in recorded games runs from ~11 (Italy) up to ~17-18 (Russia). IIRC while Russia has the highest percentage of wins, they also have a very low representation in draws, so that kinda balances a wee bit and makes Russia rather all or nothing. I know Austria also has a low win rate, around 12% I think, probably because it tends to get sandwiched early. I think the other 4 are relatively equal. Turkey and England are good powers for newer players because they're difficult to destroy quickly. Germany and Austria are difficult to play for beginners because you're bordered by a huge number of other players, and you have to do some very careful diplomacy to make sure you don't get screwed early.
i too would play this online, i havent played the game but am a fan of some of avalon hills' other games (axis and allies namely), if anyone wants to play im usually on TL IRC as cube or cube_
Haha I was thinking about making a thread like this to ask if anyone wanted to play just like Mafia, but then I realized that there wouldn't be much to discuss in the thread. But yeah Diplomacy's a great game, it makes you so paranoid about other people haha.
There's a whole UMS diplo community if any of you are interested in playing a realtime starcraft version of Diplomacy. It's pretty fun and there are a lot of decently skilled players who play, though most pub games are pretty lame.
On June 02 2009 10:47 integral wrote: There's a whole UMS diplo community if any of you are interested in playing a realtime starcraft version of Diplomacy. It's pretty fun and there are a lot of decently skilled players who play, though most pub games are pretty lame.
Are they anything like actual diplomacy? I only played a UMS diplomacy once and it was nothing like the board game, although it might've been just that version.
So there seems to be some interest here for an online game. I'm thinking phpdiplomacy.net is as good a place as any. You have to register, but that only takes about 30 seconds. So everyone who wants to start playing within the next 24 hours should send me a PM with their ID here on TL.net and. I'll add it to a list in the OP. Also, if there is a preference about which country to play, send that as well. Once we have 7 people, I'll start a game. If we get 14 people, 21 people etc, I'll instruct someone to start a new game so we have more groups playing at the same time.
I'll just warn people that have never played before that it takes a while before you understand the rules. So be prepared to read the manual for an hour or two before actual play commences. And even then experienced players will probably see weakness in you and either decide you are easy to overrun or that you are too unreliable to make an alliance with.
On June 03 2009 01:36 Blind wrote: I've been confusing this game with Risk. I've wanted to play both but never had the chance. What's the difference between these two games?
Risk is an army simulation. Diplomacy is a diplomatic one.
It's a difference way too big to explain in a post to be honest. Risk is more about proper defense and conquering... Diplomacy is more about lying your way to victory.
On June 03 2009 01:36 Blind wrote: I've been confusing this game with Risk. I've wanted to play both but never had the chance. What's the difference between these two games?
What Jayme said, but also, Risk is a much more offensive game. You attack constantly, and kill off massive armies. It's not uncommon to conquer almost all of someone's territory in one turn, and then have them come right back on their turn, especially late in the game.
Diplomacy, on the other hand, is more defensive. It's very easy to get stuck into a stalemate, especially if you're fighting someone one-on-one. It's based one WW1, after all. Killing an army in Diplomacy is almost meaningless. On the other hand, if a war starts to move against you, it's very hard to make a comeback, unless someone else steps in to assist you.
I've played Diplomacy IRL at RPG conventions some times, and while a single game can take forever, it's quite awesome. I LOVE the fact that there are no dice involved.
I've been playing a lot of a game called Agricola, #1 rated board game, on varoius webpages like boardgamegeeks.com. It's more complex and full of strategy. Settlers is a good boardgame too, but definately not as strategical. I'd recommend sc players try agricola as well.
Also, I'm probably jsut being blind, but I'm not seeing an easy way to send messages to other players on phpdiplomacy; maybe that's something that activates once the game actually starts? Should we just conduct diplomacy by PM here on TL?
So checking the player list against the posts in this thread, it looks like everyone except Cube has played before, which is good. Cube, please do really sit down for an hour or two and study the rules in the next day or so as we get started, as they're pretty nuanced and it's a lot more fun if everyone understands what's going on.
I probably have more experience adjudicating Diplomacy than actually playing, so I consider myself relatively well versed in how things work out. If anyone has any questions or wants to bounce any examples around before we really get started, I'd be happy to answer questions.
Diplomacy is awesome, I'm currently engaged in a game at school, although according to my friend I "play only to betray and piss people off", I love the negotiation aspect of the game.
Yeah, I PM'd Stenole a while ago that looking at the interface, I was afraid it might just assign us random powers. :/
Do we want to just play it out like it is, or try to find a different solution? IIRC most of us said we'd play any power, so I'm guessing there shouldn't be a huge problem playing it out, other than that the diplomacy we'd started by PM is all void now. :p
I don't have any messages from Germany yet T_T No love for the Turks?
Haven't started sending out any messages yet personally until a couple more people weigh in, but I'm thinking it's probably best to just play it out as it is now unless someone is really unhappy with which power they got.
Argh, just as I was totally getting into character of the French
I mean...my irl name is even French! It would've been perfect...ah well, time to get this Russian wave on track unless stenole changes everything back to how it was originally planned.
I guess the website decided to give us random countries. All the PMs I got had people saying they would play anything, so I guess we're fine. Only 2 of you got your first choices anyway. And since we're not all equally experienced at this game, I would argue that it's more fair to keep people out of their comfort zones. I'm Austria now. I'm so clueless as to what to do. In a way I'm glad because I had made some bad promises when I thought I was Germany.
On June 03 2009 14:22 stenole wrote: I guess the website decided to give us random countries. All the PMs I got had people saying they would play anything, so I guess we're fine. Only 2 of you got your first choices anyway. And since we're not all equally experienced at this game, I would argue that it's more fair to keep people out of their comfort zones. I'm Austria now. I'm so clueless as to what to do. In a way I'm glad because I had made some bad promises when I thought I was Germany.
Bad promises? I thought we could've had an alliance France+Germany pals for life!
Ok, so since we're pretty officially starting with the new powers now, stenole, Falcynn, 'fess up, you two were allied against me in the original, weren't you?
This game is SOOO good! In high school, my friend made a War Games club and I played this game every thursday during lunch. dipbounce is a good place to play online too. GERMANY//TURKEY FTW.
I've seen this opening before (twice actually) and with the way it was used against me you can understand if I'm a bit hesitant as to trust you right now.
The thing is, it's supremely adaptable and rarely scares anyone but Russia, so in a game with people I've never played with before it seemed like a good enough option, given that Russia and Germany fighting is rarely a desirable outcome.
'Sides, if I really wanted to fight Russia, I would have just moved to Sil as well, screw the DMZ. ^^
I'm down with that, and rather than taking a vote (a distinctly anti-Diplomatic thing to do) I'll just post up the Spring 1901 orders here, and take them down if too many people threaten to kill me or something.
Spring 1901
England: The fleet at Edinburgh move to North Sea. The army at Liverpool move to Yorkshire. The fleet at London move to English Channel. France: The army at Marseilles move to Burgundy. The army at Paris move to Gascony. The fleet at Brest move to Mid-Atlantic Ocean. Italy: The army at Venice hold. The army at Rome move to Apulia. The fleet at Naples move to Ionian Sea. Germany: The army at Munich move to Kiel. The army at Berlin move to Prussia. The fleet at Kiel move to Baltic Sea. Austria: The army at Vienna move to Galicia. The fleet at Trieste move to Venice. The army at Budapest move to Serbia. Turkey: The army at Constantinople move to Bulgaria. The fleet at Ankara move to Black Sea. The army at Smyrna move to Constantinople. Russia: The army at Moscow move to Ukraine. The fleet at St. Petersburg (South Coast) move to Gulf of Bothnia. The army at Warsaw move to Galicia. The fleet at Sevastopol move to Black Sea.
and the player list in the OP is accurate now so you guys should know which country is who.
Edit:
On June 03 2009 23:12 Musoeun wrote: 'Sides, if I really wanted to fight Russia, I would have just moved to Sil as well, screw the DMZ. ^^
Not exactly because that move would've seriously sucked. eh whatever, I'll have to see what you build in winter to see for sure if I'm being threatened...
oh and if anyone wants to see a map here it is Spring 1901
Like Musoeun I'll take this down if people want. (oh and of course, if you're not playing please refrain from giving advice this is just for anyone interested in spectating)
I can't see any reason for moves or maps to be taken down, it's not like we're posting classified information here or anything. Everyone in the game has access to all of it.
Can someone who understands the game give a brief rundown of what the opening moves made mean and what they might signify? It'll help newbies just spectating this game a lot!
I would try if I weren't a player, but as is I don't want to risk giving away anything I know from what's not visible on the board.
The problem with trying to spectate a Diplomacy game from the outside is that, unlike Starcraft (and most other games) where the observers have as much or more info than the players and less bias, it's very difficult to tell what's really going on in Dip because the moves on the board are like a third of what's really going on at most. Moves are going to get made that look totally nonsensical to an outside observer, but most of the time there are very good diplomatic reasons for them that you have no chance of understanding.
I would say the same thing as Macavenger. I want to explain what is the rationale behind my moves. But I can't do it without revealing part of my long term strategy, words that have been given to me behind closed doors or the lack of those. And while Musoeun explains the reason for his somewhat quirky opening, we, the players, have to read it the same way we read private messages in-game filled with lies, deceit, hearsay etc. Maybe he posted it here just to make us all feel safe.
Me and my friends were really into this game for quite a while. I love how it's a non-random board game but the game is largely meta and how well you get people to join you and then backstabbing them before they backstab you.
England: The fleet at North Sea convoy to Holland from Yorkshire. The army at Yorkshire move to Holland via convoy. (fails) The fleet at English Channel move to Belgium. France: The fleet at Mid-Atlantic Ocean move to Portugal. The army at Gascony move to Spain. The army at Burgundy move to Munich. Italy: The fleet at Ionian Sea convoy to Albania from Apulia. The army at Apulia move to Albania via convoy. The army at Venice move to Trieste. (fails) Germany: The fleet at Baltic Sea convoy to Denmark from Prussia. The army at Prussia move to Denmark via convoy. The army at Kiel move to Holland. (fails) Austria: The army at Serbia move to Rumania. (fails) The fleet at Trieste move to Venice. (fails) The army at Vienna move to Galicia. Turkey: The army at Constantinople move to Bulgaria. The fleet at Ankara move to Black Sea. The army at Bulgaria move to Greece. Russia: The army at Warsaw hold. The fleet at Gulf of Bothnia move to Sweden. The army at Ukraine move to Rumania. The fleet at Sevastopol support move to Rumania from Ukraine.
England: F London France: F Brest A Paris F Marsailles Italy: No adjustments Germany: No adjustments Austria: A Budapest Turkey: F Constantinople F Smyrna Russia: A Moscow A St. Petersburg
On June 04 2009 15:31 ShadowDrgn wrote: Yeah, that just happened. Germany hasn't logged in yet, but I'm expecting a big
I'm far more polite than that. Even if you go out, do it with a smile. Not quietly, but with a style. I am going to point out though that you made yourself a target, especially with that English slave.
So I have a question about the rules. Suppose you have a unit supporting another, and that unit supports a third. Now someone else's army attacks the middle unit- is the support for the third unit cut, in that case?
Army in Province1 (P1) supports A P2 to hold A P2 supports A P3 to hold?
If that's what you mean then if P2 gets attacked then P2's support is cut, but P1 is still supporting P2 to hold position. Unless you have them supporting move orders, then I'd need more details on exactly what you're talking about.
P3 has support from P2 giving him a defense of 2. To dislodge P3 you'd either need to have one army cut support by attacking P2, and use the other two to overpower P3. Or you'd need to attack with all three against P3.
Exact same scenario if you want to dislodge P2. You can dislodge P1 with only 2 armies though since no one is supporting him.
England: The fleet at North Sea convoy to Belgium from Yorkshire. The army at Yorkshire move to Belgium via convoy. The fleet at London move to English Channel. The fleet at Belgium move to Holland. France: The fleet at Brest hold. The fleet at Marseilles move to Spain (South Coast). The army at Paris move to Burgundy. The army at Munich move to Ruhr. The army at Spain move to Gascony. The fleet at Portugal move to Mid-Atlantic Ocean. Italy: The fleet at Ionian Sea hold. The army at Venice move to Trieste. (fails) The army at Albania move to Serbia. (fails) Germany: The fleet at Baltic Sea convoy to Berlin from Denmark. The army at Kiel hold. The army at Denmark move to Berlin via convoy. Austria: The fleet at Trieste hold. The army at Galicia move to Rumania. (fails) The army at Serbia support hold to Trieste. (cut, dislodged) The army at Budapest support move to Rumania from Galicia. Turkey: The fleet at Smyrna move to Eastern Mediterranean. The fleet at Constantinople move to Aegean Sea. The fleet at Black Sea move to Constantinople. The army at Greece move to Serbia. The army at Bulgaria support move to Serbia from Greece. Russia: The fleet at Sweden hold. The army at Moscow move to Ukraine. The army at St. Petersburg move to Finland. The fleet at Sevastopol support hold to Rumania. The army at Rumania support move to Serbia from Greece. The army at Warsaw support move to Ukraine from Moscow.
Austrian army in Serbia is disbanded due to lack of any legal retreat.
I know people are going to end up reading too much into this question, but this is just something I've always wondered. Can a fleet move between Holland and Kiel? Or does the presence of Helgoland make that impossible?
On June 05 2009 11:37 Hittegods wrote: Why is France included in a list of great powers?
Because before WWI, it really was one of the major players in Europe. Not as big as fifty years before that, but between its size, economy, African colonies, and English-Russian Entente, messing with France was a bad idea.
Guess I'll take care of covering this next season.
Fall 1902 England: The army at Belgium hold. The fleet at Holland hold. The fleet at North Sea move to Denmark. (fails) The fleet at English Channel support hold to Belgium. France: The army at Burgundy move to Munich. (fails) The army at Gascony move to Brest. The fleet at Spain (South Coast) move to Mid-Atlantic Ocean. The fleet at Mid-Atlantic Ocean move to Irish Sea. The fleet at Brest move to Picardy. The army at Ruhr support move to Munich from Burgundy. Italy: The fleet at Ionian Sea move to Tunis. The army at Venice move to Trieste. The army at Albania support move to Serbia from Budapest. Germany: The army at Berlin move to Munich. (fails) The fleet at Baltic Sea move to Denmark. (fails) The army at Kiel support move to Munich from Berlin. Austria: The army at Budapest move to Serbia. The army at Galicia move to Rumania. (fails, forced to retreat to Vienna) The fleet at Trieste move to Adriatic Sea. Turkey: The fleet at Aegean Sea move to Greece. The fleet at Constantinople move to Aegean Sea. The fleet at Eastern Mediterranean move to Ionian Sea. The army at Bulgaria support move to Greece from Aegean Sea. The army at Serbia support move to Budapest from Rumania. (support cut, forced to disband) Russia: The army at Finland move to Norway. The fleet at Sevastopol move to Rumania. The army at Warsaw move to Galicia. The army at Rumania move to Budapest. The fleet at Sweden support move to Norway from Finland. The army at Ukraine support move to Galicia from Warsaw.
Winter Builds England: Fleet in Liverpool France: no builds Italy: Fleet in Naples Fleet in Rome Germany: no builds Austria: Disband army in Vienna Turkey: Army in Constantinople Russia: Army in Warsaw Fleet in St. Petersburg (south coast)
Bah, I'm actually thinking about joining another Diplomacy game to hold me over in between turns
I'm just afraid I'll confuse the two games and actually start sending secret information to the wrong people thinking I'm talking in a different game...
I was actually thinking about trying to start a second TL game. There were definitely at least a few people who voiced interest in this thread that aren't in the first game.
England: The army at Belgium move to Ruhr. (fails, dislodged) The fleet at Holland move to Belgium. (fails) The fleet at English Channel move to Wales. The fleet at Liverpool support move to Wales from English Channel. (cut) The fleet at North Sea support move to Belgium from Holland. France: The fleet at Mid-Atlantic Ocean convoy to Liverpool from Brest. The fleet at Irish Sea convoy to Liverpool from Brest. The army at Ruhr move to Belgium. The army at Brest move to Liverpool via convoy. (fails) The army at Burgundy support move to Belgium from Ruhr. The fleet at Picardy support move to Belgium from Ruhr. Italy: The fleet at Rome move to Tyrrhenian Sea. The fleet at Naples move to Ionian Sea. The army at Albania move to Greece. (fails, dislodged) The army at Trieste support hold to Serbia. The fleet at Tunis support move to Ionian Sea from Naples. Germany: The fleet at Baltic Sea move to Denmark. The army at Berlin move to Munich. The army at Kiel support move to Ruhr from Belgium. Austria: The army at Serbia support move to Greece from Albania. The fleet at Adriatic Sea support move to Ionian Sea from Naples. Turkey: The army at Constantinople move to Bulgaria. The army at Bulgaria move to Rumania. The fleet at Ionian Sea move to Albania. The fleet at Aegean Sea support hold to Greece. The fleet at Greece support move to Albania from Ionian Sea. Russia: The army at Norway hold. The fleet at Sevastopol hold. The army at Warsaw move to Silesia. The army at Ukraine move to Warsaw. The army at Galicia move to Vienna. The fleet at St. Petersburg (South Coast) move to Gulf of Bothnia. The fleet at Sweden support move to Gulf of Bothnia from St. Petersburg (South Coast). The army at Budapest support move to Vienna from Galicia.
Both dislodged armies will be disbanded for lack of legal retreats.
I would probably be up for a second game once this one is over. First one was really fun even though my diplomacy failed at every turn. Hopefully next time I won`t be so hopelessly dependent on one power to make any kind of progress.
Yeah i'd totally be up for a second one once this is over, but I don't think it would be a good idea for me (real life-wise) to try and play two at the same time.
England: The fleet at Holland hold. The fleet at North Sea move to Norway. (fails) The fleet at Liverpool move to Irish Sea. The fleet at Wales support move to Irish Sea from Liverpool. France: The fleet at Picardy move to English Channel. The army at Brest move to Gascony. The fleet at Irish Sea move to North Atlantic Ocean. The army at Burgundy support hold to Belgium. The army at Belgium support move to Holland from Kiel. (fails) The fleet at Mid-Atlantic Ocean support move to English Channel from Picardy. Italy: The fleet at Tyrrhenian Sea support hold to Ionian Sea. The fleet at Tunis support hold to Ionian Sea. The army at Trieste support hold to Serbia. (fails, dislodged) The fleet at Ionian Sea support move to Albania from Adriatic Sea. Germany: The fleet at Denmark hold. The army at Munich move to Berlin. (fails) The army at Kiel move to Munich. (fails) Austria: The fleet at Adriatic Sea move to Albania. The army at Serbia support hold to Trieste. (fails, dislodged, disbanded) Turkey: The fleet at Greece hold. The army at Rumania move to Serbia. The fleet at Albania move to Trieste. The fleet at Aegean Sea support hold to Greece. The army at Bulgaria support move to Serbia from Rumania. Russia: The army at Norway hold. The fleet at Gulf of Bothnia move to Baltic Sea. The army at Silesia move to Berlin. (fails) The army at Warsaw move to Prussia. The fleet at Sevastopol move to Rumania. The fleet at Sweden move to Denmark. (fails) The army at Vienna support move to Trieste from Albania. The army at Budapest support move to Trieste from Albania.
On June 07 2009 06:20 Luddite wrote: Yeah i'd totally be up for a second one once this is over, but I don't think it would be a good idea for me (real life-wise) to try and play two at the same time.
Hey guys I used to use http://jdip.sourceforge.net/ for my game when I used to play :p. You guys should check it out to see your practice moves or whatnot (I dunno how the site works)
England: The fleet at North Sea move to Denmark. The fleet at Holland move to Kiel. (fails) The fleet at Wales move to London. The fleet at Irish Sea move to Liverpool. France: The fleet at Mid-Atlantic Ocean convoy to Clyde from Gascony. The fleet at North Atlantic Ocean convoy to Clyde from Gascony. The fleet at English Channel convoy to Wales from Belgium. The army at Gascony move to Clyde via convoy. The army at Belgium move to Wales via convoy. The army at Burgundy move to Belgium. Italy: The army at Venice move to Tyrolia. (fails) The fleet at Ionian Sea move to Adriatic Sea. The fleet at Tyrrhenian Sea move to Ionian Sea. The fleet at Tunis support move to Ionian Sea from Tyrrhenian Sea. Germany: The fleet at Denmark move to Skagerrack. The army at Munich move to Tyrolia. (fails) The army at Kiel move to Denmark. (fails) The fleet at Berlin move to Baltic Sea. (fails) Turkey: The fleet at Aegean Sea hold. The fleet at Trieste hold. The fleet at Constantinople move to Black Sea. The army at Smyrna move to Armenia. The army at Bulgaria move to Rumania. (fails) The fleet at Greece move to Albania. The army at Serbia support move to Rumania from Bulgaria. Russia: The fleet at Rumania hold. The army at Norway hold. The army at Warsaw move to Ukraine. The army at Silesia move to Berlin. The army at Vienna support hold to Budapest. The army at Budapest support hold to Rumania. The fleet at Baltic Sea support move to Berlin from Silesia. The army at Prussia support move to Berlin from Silesia. The fleet at Sweden support move to Denmark from North Sea.
bah, can't really blame Turkey, if he was planning to backstab me this would be the best time with me distracted and using most of my resources up North I was the one too stupid in thinking that building in Warsaw and moving him to Ukraine would be a good enough defense. I need to stop making all of my decision at 1 in the morning.
Bah, I hate asking questions here since I know everyone's going to read into it thinking it's part of my strategy...although that could work in my favor.
Anyways, I was wondering if Army 1 supports A2 to hold, and A2 moves into another province and bounces, does A1 still support A2 to hold if two armies work to attack A2?
I asked Turkey that in a PM earlier, Falcynn. His answer was no. Sad to be stabbed just after assisting him in taking Trieste. I'm rooting for you though.
Also stenole, why are you rooting for me? I figured you'd root for Italy or France...then again I think I may be the only one that hasn't openly lied to everyone yet.
On June 09 2009 01:21 Falcynn wrote: Alright, that works for me then.
Also stenole, why are you rooting for me? I figured you'd root for Italy or France...then again I think I may be the only one that hasn't openly lied to everyone yet.
I'm rooting for you because you did a good job manipulating all your neighbours. You put a little too much trust in Turkey I guess, but I still think you'll overcome him (without looking too closely at the board). France has had up to recently a tripple alliance and an open road into Munich. If he wasn't giant after that something would be wrong. Italy has probably been fishing for alliances in all directions and I don't think he's had much success. I guess that's a typical Italy scenario.
I wouldn't say I put too much trust in Turkey, I knew he'd stab me as soon as Austria fell, the only mistake I made was assuming that building in Warsaw then moving it into Ukraine would be enough to protect Sev.
Again, I'm gonna stop making all of my important decisions at 1 in the morning
A triple alliance? England, Germany, and I have been playing the other two off each other every turn since the game began. Nothing any of us have done could really be considered an alliance.
I haven't lied to anyone besides England and Germany as far as I can remember.
England: The fleet at Liverpool hold. The fleet at London hold. (dislodged) The fleet at Denmark move to Kiel. The fleet at Holland support move to Kiel from Denmark. (fails, dislodged) France: The fleet at North Atlantic Ocean move to Liverpool. (fails) The army at Clyde move to Edinburgh. The fleet at Mid-Atlantic Ocean move to Western Mediterranean. The army at Wales move to London. The fleet at English Channel support move to London from Wales. The army at Belgium support move to Holland from Kiel. Italy: The fleet at Ionian Sea move to Greece. (fails) The fleet at Tunis move to Ionian Sea. (fails) The army at Venice move to Trieste. (fails) The fleet at Adriatic Sea support move to Trieste from Venice. (fails) Germany: The fleet at Skagerrack move to North Sea. The army at Munich move to Kiel. (fails) The army at Kiel move to Holland. Turkey: The fleet at Black Sea hold. The army at Bulgaria hold. The fleet at Albania move to Adriatic Sea. (fails) The army at Serbia move to Greece. (fails) The fleet at Aegean Sea move to Greece. (fails) The army at Armenia move to Smyrna. The fleet at Trieste support move to Adriatic Sea from Albania. (support cut) Russia: The army at Norway hold. The army at Ukraine move to Sevastopol. The fleet at Rumania move to Black Sea. (fails) The fleet at Baltic Sea move to Denmark. The army at Budapest move to Serbia. (fails) The army at Prussia support hold to Berlin. The army at Vienna support hold to Trieste. The army at Berlin support move to Kiel from Denmark. The fleet at Sweden support move to Denmark from Baltic Sea.
Builds/Disbandment Germany: The army in Holland is destroyed. England: The fleet in Liverpool is destroyed. The fleet in Yorkshire is destroyed. Russia: Army in Warsaw is operational. Army in Moscow is operational. France: Army in Paris is operational. Army in Marseilles is operational.
I seriously want to move to Bohemia and Tyrolia just so that I can turn those lands purple...then again, maybe we should leave those as a DMZ to honor Austria?
Wow, Turkey could have gotten Sev and Rum on a fall turn...
F Bla - Sev
A Arm S F Bla - Sev
A Bul - Rum
Worst case, it's a standoff, otherwise Turkey gets Sev because Rum support gets cut, or as in this case he gets both because Rum moves out of position and Ukr gets overwhelmed.
Yes, Russia would be in the Black Sea, but with two centres on a Fall turn Turkey could build on Con and Ank, so it's not a big problem.
On June 10 2009 00:59 1esu wrote: Wow, Turkey could have gotten Sev and Rum on a fall turn...
F Bla - Sev
A Arm S F Bla - Sev
A Bul - Rum
Worst case, it's a standoff, otherwise Turkey gets Sev because Rum support gets cut, or as in this case he gets both because Rum moves out of position and Ukr gets overwhelmed.
Yes, Russia would be in the Black Sea, but with two centres on a Fall turn Turkey could build on Con and Ank, so it's not a big problem.
Good job convincing him to give that one up!
Damn it, if you're not playing don't discuss tactics/strategies here
-Germany had no idea how to play, and one weak player unbalances the whole game!
-I'm pretty disappointed that Italy-Austria didn't open Lepanto. With the Juggernaut dismantling Austria, Italy usually gets boxed in, and gains little by Austria's destruction.
On June 04 2009 05:07 Jyvblamo wrote: Can someone who understands the game give a brief rundown of what the opening moves made mean and what they might signify? It'll help newbies just spectating this game a lot!
Also, if anyone's interested, at the end of the game (if all the players are cool with it) we can give a basic rundown of everything going on during negotiations.
Edit:
On June 10 2009 04:53 ShadowDrgn wrote: England had no idea how to play and Germany got screwed because of it. He went for a risky opening and paid the price.
Yeah, but he mostly got screwed with that risky opening because he didn't try to adapt to something else when I blatantly told him I knew exactly what he was doing.
On June 04 2009 05:07 Jyvblamo wrote: Can someone who understands the game give a brief rundown of what the opening moves made mean and what they might signify? It'll help newbies just spectating this game a lot!
Also, if anyone's interested, at the end of the game (if all the players are cool with it) we can give a basic rundown of everything going on during negotiations.
I've been typing my thoughts into a document every turn, and I'll post them up afterward. They're unorganized and somewhat stream of consciousness, but they've been useful for helping me plan each turn out. I think I'm up to 5 pages of notes, haha.
On June 10 2009 05:03 MoltkeWarding wrote: Germany's opening moves made no sense. He didn't have to bounce on Holland and put no pressure on either Sweden or Belgium.
It's an opening known as "The Centrifuge"...don't know why it's named that. Basically the opening is used primarily to give everyone the impression that he has no idea what he's doing, then set up his armies and builds in order to convoy the shit out of me (Russia). Although this strategy works primarily in gunboat games, since it kind of messes things up once communication comes into play.
The only flaw in his plan was that he read France completely wrong, and despite me telling him I knew what he'd do, he continued anyways and I was able to prepare while France took Munich. So instead of giving off the impression that he was an idiot before beating the shit out of me...he just gave everyone the impression that he's an idiot.
On June 10 2009 05:03 MoltkeWarding wrote: Germany's opening moves made no sense. He didn't have to bounce on Holland and put no pressure on either Sweden or Belgium.
That was his strategy, and I'm 99% sure he read that article. England almost always would have taken Norway instead of Holland, but for some reason he decided Holland was the better choice...
It would be helpful if people PM me so we can get some complete list of players who would want to join a game 2. This also applies to players involved in game 1. I know a couple people have declared they wanted to play in the thread but have changed their minds. I would very much like to play again. Hopefully not as Austria if Germany crumbles again.
On June 07 2009 15:23 ydg wrote: Hey guys I used to use http://jdip.sourceforge.net/ for my game when I used to play :p. You guys should check it out to see your practice moves or whatnot (I dunno how the site works)
So I finally decided to get this, and while I probably don't want to do anything that could give anyone some sort of advantage, I still felt like posting this.
[url blocked]
It's a jDip file of every move done so far in the game up until where we are now, so you guys can visualize all of your moves better against any possible counters. To open it get jdip from the link in ydg's post, then use that program to open the file in my megaupload link.
Great, great site to host diplomacy games. It's a site where you can set up your own game (private or public), and play at your leisure. Simple and flawless interface, I use it all the time to get games going.
Post on last page updated with new builds/disbandments. I'll also get to work on uploading the updated jDip file for anyone too lazy to do it themselves
and in case anyone doesn't feel like looking at the last page, here's this last turns results + Show Spoiler [Fall 1904] +
Fall 1904
England: The fleet at Liverpool hold. The fleet at London hold. (dislodged) The fleet at Denmark move to Kiel. The fleet at Holland support move to Kiel from Denmark. (fails, dislodged) France: The fleet at North Atlantic Ocean move to Liverpool. (fails) The army at Clyde move to Edinburgh. The fleet at Mid-Atlantic Ocean move to Western Mediterranean. The army at Wales move to London. The fleet at English Channel support move to London from Wales. The army at Belgium support move to Holland from Kiel. Italy: The fleet at Ionian Sea move to Greece. (fails) The fleet at Tunis move to Ionian Sea. (fails) The army at Venice move to Trieste. (fails) The fleet at Adriatic Sea support move to Trieste from Venice. (fails) Germany: The fleet at Skagerrack move to North Sea. The army at Munich move to Kiel. (fails) The army at Kiel move to Holland. Turkey: The fleet at Black Sea hold. The army at Bulgaria hold. The fleet at Albania move to Adriatic Sea. (fails) The army at Serbia move to Greece. (fails) The fleet at Aegean Sea move to Greece. (fails) The army at Armenia move to Smyrna. The fleet at Trieste support move to Adriatic Sea from Albania. (support cut) Russia: The army at Norway hold. The army at Ukraine move to Sevastopol. The fleet at Rumania move to Black Sea. (fails) The fleet at Baltic Sea move to Denmark. The army at Budapest move to Serbia. (fails) The army at Prussia support hold to Berlin. The army at Vienna support hold to Trieste. The army at Berlin support move to Kiel from Denmark. The fleet at Sweden support move to Denmark from Baltic Sea.
Builds/Disbandment Germany: The army in Holland is destroyed. England: The fleet in Liverpool is destroyed. The fleet in Yorkshire is destroyed. Russia: Army in Warsaw is operational. Army in Moscow is operational. France: Army in Paris is operational. Army in Marseilles is operational.
Yeah, I read France wrong, and I made the mistake of trying something goofy in a game with two players who read the Zine. Not that I could have known that at the start. I still think it was worth the risk.
And as soon as I found out Russia knew about it, I was planning to swing it around at England (whoo two fleets), but then I lost Munich, and... yeah.
England: The fleet at Kiel hold. The fleet at Heligoland Bight support hold to Kiel. France: The fleet at English Channel convoy to Belgium from London. The army at Edinburgh hold. The fleet at Western Mediterranean move to Tyrrhenian Sea. The army at Marseilles move to Piedmont. The army at London move to Belgium via convoy. The army at Belgium move to Ruhr. The fleet at North Atlantic Ocean move to Norwegian Sea. The army at Paris move to Burgundy. Italy: The fleet at Adriatic Sea move to Albania. (fails, dislodged, retreats to Apulia) The army at Venice move to Trieste. (fails) The fleet at Tunis support hold to Ionian Sea. The fleet at Ionian Sea support move to Albania from Adriatic Sea. (fails) Germany: The fleet at North Sea move to Holland. The army at Munich move to Silesia. (fails) Turkey: The army at Smyrna hold. The fleet at Black Sea hold. The fleet at Trieste move to Adriatic Sea. The army at Bulgaria move to Greece. The army at Serbia move to Trieste. The fleet at Aegean Sea move to Ionian Sea. (fails) The fleet at Albania support move to Adriatic Sea from Trieste. Russia: The army at Norway hold. The fleet at Rumania hold. The fleet at Denmark hold. The army at Moscow move to Ukraine. The army at Warsaw move to Galicia. The fleet at Sweden move to Baltic Sea. The army at Prussia move to Silesia. The army at Budapest support hold to Rumania. The army at Sevastopol support hold to Rumania. The army at Berlin support move to Silesia from Prussia. The army at Vienna support move to Trieste from Serbia.
On June 10 2009 13:25 Musoeun wrote: Yeah, I read France wrong, and I made the mistake of trying something goofy in a game with two players who read the Zine. Not that I could have known that at the start. I still think it was worth the risk.
And as soon as I found out Russia knew about it, I was planning to swing it around at England (whoo two fleets), but then I lost Munich, and... yeah.
I dunno if I trust the strategies from that site at all. A lot of them have background like "I tried this once. It didn't work, but I'm pretty confident that someone else might be able to make it work! You just have to make sure that all the other people do exactly what you expect them to do."
Bah, I should have told England to bugger off and go back to Britain. Maybe then he'd still hold his homeland, France wouldn't be as powerful, and I might have actually had a shot at all of Germany.
Instead I wanted to gain an ally in the West and...
I've got one question. Suppose Bohemia holds. Now I support hold Bohemia from Vienna. Can I support hold Vienna from Budapest - Actually Vienna is not on hold so does it work?
We're starting up game 2 pretty soon. Seems like some of the people who agreed to play are staying offline or are not checking their PMs so if anyone wants to steal their spots, just PM me.
does phpdiplomacy have the variant diplomacy 1900? (or maybe it's 1904?) It's a more balanced map that doesn't have essentially nil winning chances for austria and italy and good chances for russia and france.
On June 13 2009 02:06 talismania wrote: does phpdiplomacy have the variant diplomacy 1900? (or maybe it's 1904?) It's a more balanced map that doesn't have essentially nil winning chances for austria and italy and good chances for russia and france.
What? Classic diplomacy is perfectly balanced.
*ignores the fact that France and Russia are pwning this game while Austria was eliminated first.
New updates. Also in case anyone's wondering, the season relates to what moves are currently being discussed/planned, not the moves that have just been carried out.
Figured I should clarify since I almost confused myself just now.
Damn it, is phpdiplomacy doing maintenance or something? It's not letting me post any messages. Anyways, I won't be on for like 15 hours, I have my moves finalized so I should be good for today. If anyone has anything they need to tell me hopefully it can wait.
So with the first game now over, and me not getting into the second game due to a temporary shortage of time as it was starting, I'm looking to start a third game now. If anyone in the second game would like to be in 2 at once, or anyone who missed out on it would like to try, please send me a PM here on TL, and I'll get a game started once there's enough interest.
Also, there was a request earlier for some running commentary on the first game to help newer players understand what might be going on a bit better, which no one wanted to provide at the time for fear of giving away diplomatic agreements by accident. Since there's now a game running that I'm not in, I feel like I could take a shot at doing so - would anyone in the second game object to some public commentary and speculation while it's running?
If enough people are fine with it then I guess I'll consent. However I'd rather not as commentary may cause people to change their game plans. For example you may comment on an impending alliance/stab/move that may cause other players to rethink their strategies.
I feel the same way as Falcynn, Mac. I will PM you some names of people you can try to contact to get game 3 going. People who said they were interested, but didn't have time when game 2 was starting.
Spring 1901 So right off the bat, everyone sends off messages of greeting. Germany wants a DMZ in Burgundy and Rhur. I quickly agree because my initial plan is the Iberian Indecision, which involves moving my armies to Spain and Portugal and my fleet into the Atlantic, where it can be used as an attack on England or Italy. The plan is for a German alliance.
I want Germany’s allegiance to remain with me, not me and Austria, so I tip Austria off as to our DMZ. The Germany army in Munich moves to Rhur/Bur almost always with a small chance to the Austria territories. I’m incredibly surprised when Austria reveals that he has a DMZ with Germany as well. If Germany intends to honor both our agreements, he can only move to one of his own territories or stand. That seems unlikely so my inclination is that Germany is bullshitting me and plans to invade Burgundy, or at least make a move on Belgium from Rhur without me having a say. Could I really complain about him moving to a German spot? I decide no, and he shouldn’t complain about me moving to Burgundy as a defensive move, fully expecting to bounce there. I decide to not bounce after all and instead support the move from Marseilles, which can move to Spain in A1901. Adding to my suspicions is that Turkey informs me that Germany intends to take both Belgium and Holland this year (probably inferring from my suspicions sent to Austria), which he can’t do without breaking our DMZ.
Expecting Germany-Austria to be working together, I help put together the Russian-Turkish alliance that both of them wanted but neither was sure about. I’m on the other side of the world so both freely confide in me.
The last player unaccounted for is Cube (England). I message him on IRC and get him on, and he finalizes his moves in 10 minutes! I can’t even believe he read all his messages in that amount of time, and if he didn’t notice the game was running for hours, I doubt he looked up any strategy. I seriously consider moving F-Brest to the English Channel to bounce with him, but it would look very bad if he didn’t move there. Since he didn’t spend any time, I figure he’s not allied with anyone and can be turned to my cause next turn, even if he moves to the channel. Germany and Italy are much more worrisome.
I probably plugged in every normal French opening and scratched it before going with the Vineyard, a slightly weird semi-defensive move that doesn’t commit me to anything. I actually went to bed, lied there for 20 minutes or so, and then got up and changed my moves, haha.
Autumn 1901 Germany’s desire to have DMZs with half the players finally makes sense, and he actually meant all of them! He isn’t happy about my move into Burgundy, but that’s fine. His moves make absolutely no sense to me, and Russia is in a panic. Russia seems to be concerned about my status because of the English move into the Channel as well. Unfortunately for Germany, his opening is so weird that I look it up online. There’s actually an article detailing the whole thing…. Oops!
I decide that Germany leaving himself open is too good to ignore, and England can’t do much to me with his opening. At worst, he takes Brest and I have to wrestle it away from him in 1902. I send a few long messages to England planning out our alliance. Obviously I want him to partially fail by bouncing in Holland, but I do mention that it’d be safer for him to move into Norway instead. I message Germany and tell him that I want an alliance, we divvy up England, drink some wine together, etc. All I want from him now is to move his army from Kiel to Holland. Conveniently enough, that’s the move his strategy involves anyway. I’m such an easy ally to work with. On the Russian front, I give him Germany’s moves and the best response. He ultimately decides not to risk moving off Warsaw, but he does take Sweden. I was hoping he wouldn’t trust me and would leave Sweden open. Falcynn’s claim that he’s seen this German opening twice is hard to believe, but he goes along with it anyway. This is going to make England’s life difficult in Scandinavia, especially with an army built in St. Petersburg.
I consider sandbagging myself by moving back into Brest with either the fleet or army in order to protect myself from an English stab. Also, I’m concerned that having 6 centers in 1902 is going to paint a target on my head. Ultimately, I decide to go for broke and move into Spain, Portugal, and Munich.
Winter 1902 Hahahahah! Germany did the Centrifuge exactly as predicted. Unfortunately the German-Austria anti-Russian alliance blew up in their faces too hard and Turkey took Greece. Italy, Germany, and Austria are all up shit creek and Russia-Turkey is scary. England played ball perfectly at least, but Russia positioned himself too well into Scandinavia.
I’m the last one to pick my new units, and I go for fleets in the two coastal territories. I can tell England they’re for Italy and Italy they’re for England. Suckers. What are they going to do about it?
Spring 1902 England is being very unreliable and it looks like he’s going to get bogged down pretty hard with Germany and Russia both. I think it might be good to stab him sooner rather than later, especially if Russia swoops in to take a piece of Germany. England’s fleet in London makes no sense and he can’t justify where it’s going to go.
I’m considering destroying Italy as well, but that would place me in direct contention with Turkey. I think I’m better off with Italy and Austria holding back the Juggernaut and getting my 18 centers from England, Germany, and Russia.
Everyone ends their turns pretty fast and I don’t think I’m going to have any luck negotiating with England or Germany to change their moves. I move my fleets around so that I can attack England or Italy, and I vacate Munich to provide more tactical options in the Fall. I end my turn with my fingers crossed.
Autumn 1902 England fucks me in the channel once again, which wasn’t surprising. I held my fleet in Brest because I didn’t want to tip my hand, but I did seriously consider bouncing with him there. He might have understood if I had chosen to do so, but I went for the diplomatic play, which was probably stupid because of how far diplomacy has broken down between England, Germany, and I. It’s all my fault of course. England claims that he needs the channel to defend Belgium and that he’ll be there one more turn only. Yeah, he’s telling the truth because he’ll be in Picardy or Brest instead.
My goal is to take Belgium and give up Munich, and I decide on this set of moves: F MAO-IRI, F Bre-ENG, F Spa-MAO, A Gas-Bre, A Bur-Bel, A Ruhr S Bur-Bel Seems like a good plan if England tries something like taking Norway, Denmark, or supporting Germany. However, I’m worried that England is just going to sit tight for a turn and get a build from Holland before making a move. I can’t take Belgium if he does, and I’m giving away Munich. This leaves me with two other options:
1. Ask Germany to cut support with A Kiel-Holland and take Munich with A Berlin. If he betrays me, he’ll probably also tell England about the plan, but it’s possible that he wouldn’t and I could miraculously take Belgium without his help. 2. Support a bounce into Munich. If England tries to cut my support, he’s taking a 50/50 guess. I’ll be in good shape if he guesses wrong, and I won’t be in any worse shape if he guesses right than if I tried for Belgium and failed. I’d kick myself a lot for missing the opportunity in Belgium though.
Finally, if I believe he’s not moving out of the channel, I should move F Bre-Pic so my army in Gascony can occupy Brest. If England adopts a 100% defense, all 6 of my units will border him. He’ll have 5 units, but the ones in Holland and the North Sea won’t be in very good position, and if he doesn’t place the 5th in Liverpool, he’ll concede it to me in 1903. Germany will still only have 3 units and they won’t be threatening me either. I’m probably giving the game to Russia by doing this because Turkey is in no position to backstab. Locked and loaded.
Winter 1903 Well, shit. England, in a moment of insanity, didn’t support Belgium from Holland and held instead. For my own mental well-being, I’m just going to pretend that didn’t happen. I could have Belgium right now and he’d only have 4 units instead of 5. Russia took Norway as expected, but also picked up Budapest. Italy picked up 2 centers and Austria’s down to 2, one of which is war-torn Serbia and completely surrounded.
Spring 1903 Do I go for broke in England or attempt to patch things up? Italy made 2 fleets on his western coast, and Austria’s fleet is probably going to help him retake the Ionian from Turkey. I’m pretty sure Italy is eyeing Spain, Portugal, and Marseilles, and I’m going to be hard pressed to properly defend them with a full scale attack on England underway. Germany hasn’t been on since Fall 02 ended, and he’s probably pissed that he didn’t get Munich. He threatened to give the game to Russia if I didn’t cooperate too. If only I had taken Belgium and given him Munich…. Oh well, it’s his fault for not being online. Logging in twice a day isn’t conducive to keeping an alliance going. My initial plan is to convoy Brest to Wales and do a 3 way attack on Belgium. He’ll probably defend it, but he didn’t last turn! Germany might even agree to cut Holland for me, but England can still defend from the North Sea. F MAO can cover Spain and A Bur can cover Marseilles from Italy if needed, and he’s going to need at least 2 turns to get into position. Hopefully I’ve gained a center from attacking England by then to drop a fleet in Marseilles.
The remaining question is whether I try to convoy into Wales to set up an attack next turn or convoy straight into Liverpool and hope he moves to bounce in Wales. I go for the latter.
Autumn 1903 England covered both Wales and Liverpool by vacating the channel, which is interesting. Germany and/or Russia probably coached him into that move, but it’s all right. There was a huge mess in Belgium and Ruhr that resolved in my favor, although Germany took Munich back. I was hoping to be able to dangle it in front of him this turn, but considering Russia’s moves into German territory, it’s probably for the better. Austria’s all but dead and Turkey grabbed a Russian territory. I really screwed up moving into the Irish Sea last year. I had considered the North Atlantic Ocean instead, which would have worked out so much better. I could have told England that I was moving there to assault Russia and he might not have made the fleet at Liverpool at all. C’est la vie. Now Russia wants to help me take back Munich so Germany’s Scandinavia defense will be worse. He doesn’t actually need my help if he thinks Germany is going to do a self-standoff; he can just support German A Mun-Ber and I’ll keep Munich unoccupied.
I thought up the best way Germany and England can screw me. Liverpool – Irish Sea, Wales – English Channel, Holland – Belgium, North Sea support Holland – Belgium. Then Germany can cut defensive support from Munich safely and Kiel can take the vacated Holland. Germany just has to hope Russia attacks Munich and I don’t play along. Should I try to defend this somewhat remote possibility? Yes, it makes sense. Even if I bounce with an unsupported move into the English Channel, I may pick up an extra unit from taking Munich back. At worst, I end up with fleets in the North Atlantic and Mid Atlantic with an army in Gascony that can be convoyed into England. I can’t lose Belgium this way either. It will suck if he supports his move into the channel, but I find that unlikely. I’m not counting on Russia supporting me into Munich either; in fact, we’ll all probably be better off if he doesn’t.
On second thought, screw playing it safe. If Germany cuts Burgundy and I lose Belgium, so be it. Hopefully I take the channel, keep Belgium, and Russia supports Germany’s Munich to Berlin. That’d give me another build for an army in Brest, and I can land 2 armies on England next turn and go for the throat next Fall. If Germany takes Holland and unsuccessfully tries to bounce with Russia in Berlin from Munich, it would be even better. I’m going with that just because it’d be awesome if it happened. Playing it safe isn’t going to win me the game at this point, and “safe” would piss Germany off anyway.
Spring 1904 England did what I thought he’d do with Wales and Liverpool, but once again his other moves made little sense. Germany could have taken Holland but chose to be extra safe. Russia didn’t go through with our plan, which is fine because I told him I wasn’t doing it anyway. Austria got wiped out, but that was to be expected. Turkey continues to play an excellent game.
No diplomacy to be done now, just trying to roll England over. I think it’s likely that he’ll try to dislodge me from the channel, but then I can retreat to London unless he covers it from the North Sea. If not, hopefully I’ll have 2 armies landed on his shores. I don’t think he can stop me from taking at least one of his centers. Turkey looks like he’s going to stab Russia finally, which will take some pressure off us. Not enough pressure to let Italy sail west I hope. That army in Gascony should have made him think twice about Iberia being easy pickings, but it’s going to be in Clyde in the Fall. If I don’t get another build next year, I could be in real trouble.
Autumn 1904 Wow, England and Russia teamed up against Germany. Fucking Cube. On the bright side, I landed both my armies in England and he has absolutely no way to stop me from taking Liverpool and London or Edinburgh and London. I may as well go for all 3 centers by hoping he moves F Liverpool – Wales to potentially cut support. Turkey moved to backstab Russia (obviously), but Russia moved to counter well. I don’t think Turkey can penetrate into Russia – he’s got too many fleets, and now Italy has those locked down too. Russia’s got this game so easily now.
Spring 1906 Likely moves: A Mos-StP, F Swe S Norway Holds, F Denmark S Kiel Holds, 3 way attack on Munich
How to screw him: Support hold Munich from Bur and Ruhr (unbreakable) Maybe he’ll support Vie-Tyr and forego the attack on Munich until it’s guaranteed to succeed in the Fall.
Can have Germany support Pie-Tyr in that case, but can’t defend Venice. Might be worth the risk only single supporting a move into the Ionian with Italy.
For the north, German F Hol-Hel, A Bel-Hol, F North Sea – SKA, F Norwegian Sea – North Sea, F Brest – ENG. Then hit Denmark and Kiel in the Fall.
Heh, you didn't really help put the juggernaught together, FYI - we were always very much together from the start, we just weren't admitting it to anyone because Austria also wanted to be my friend against Russia and I was stringing him along, figuring the longer he danced to the tune I was calling the better. I was taking extra care to act stupid about the idea of allying with Russia to you because I knew you had some dealings with Austria
Interesting notes. I have some vaguely similar stuff I was maintaining as we were going until about 1903 when I abruptly started having less time for a few days. I might try to clean them up and add a few thoughts on the later years and post them tomorrow.
I've got another question. Suppose Rumania wants to cut support in Sevastopol, however Bulgaria and Black Sea are making a combined attack at Rumania. Is there any way to protect Rumania : 1. Serbia + Budapest move into Rumania (however it is occupied by friendly unit)? 2. Serbia / Budapest support hold Rumania (hoever Rumania isn't holding nor supporting)?
Serbia moving to Rumania with support from Budapest (or vice versa) would create a standoff with the attack from Bul/Bla. Meanwhile A Rum standsoff in Sev to cut support there. Because there would be a standoff in Rumania from the 2 forces of 2, the army retreating from its standoff in Sev is not dislodged.
Note that if Turkey does not in fact order the attack on Rum, A Rum is still safe, as a unit cannot dislodge or support the dislodgement of another unit owned by the same player. In this case, the strength 2 attack on Rumania would simply fail even though it has more force than the Army attempting to hold in Rumania after the standoff in Sev. The Austrian units moving into Rumania basically refuse to attack and dislodge their countrymen, so everything bounces and returns to the initial position.
S01 Germany immediately suggests a DMZ in Bohemia and Tyrolia. I was going to suggest the same thing if it even needed saying. France tells me he has a similar deal and tries to convince me Germany is going to violate our deal and honour theirs. Anyway, I feel pretty safe that Germany wouldn't do any of that. I try to send messages around the world that will lead to a bogged down Germany because I want him to be in worse shape than me even if we are "friends". I try to engineer the division of the Balkans with Turkey, letting him have Greece and Bulgaria while I get the other 2. I would support him into Greece while he would support me into Rumania. I tell Italy that I will move to Venice. I don't trust him but I don't want to foster anger from him either. I have no dealings with Russia, intending to move to Galicia. If I gain that position, it would be a great start for the Austrian invasion of Russia.
A01 So France moves into Burgundy violating their DMZ. Germany surprisingly honours his. I don't really understand what is going on in Germany, but I see it as a good sign because it looks very anti-russian. I can only assume he has some deal with England and France that will not cause him to die. There is hardly any communication with the Russians and that's fine. I try to convince Italy that we each vacate Trieste and Venice. But I order my fleet into Venice hoping to gain a cheap supply point. Negotiation any kind of alliance seems hard because everyone is telling me that Italy and France are good friends. Turkey is so far honouring his part of the agreement. I feel very safe we are on the same team.
S02 So Germany backs off from the Russians while losing Munich to the French. Also the English don't take Norway. So it seems like the Russians will gain Scandinavia unchallenged. I moved into Rumania to cause a standoff. But surprisingly Russia supports from Sevastopol. This is the first hint at a Russia-Turkey alliance. Italy takes Albania while not letting me take Venice for free. I sense enemies at all sides and there is not much I can do. I cling to Turkey, because of Italy's aggressive stance, Germany's collapse and Russia in no way needing my help for anything. I also have Turkey's reassurances that I will get Rumania and that is more than what anyone else is offering me.
A02 Turkey stabs me, with Italian support. It also seems like Italy was duped in the process. There is very little I can do at this point. I beg for Russia and Turkey to backstab the other. They both tell me that they have previous deals they need to honour and maybe in a few turns. Italy agrees to help me stall the beast because he knows when I am gone, he is next on the platter. I give him Trieste because it is impossible to defend it with a fleet anyway. So my plan is to just keep Serbia.
S03 and A03 I think the chances of me surviving long-term this game are 0, so I decide to try to just hold Serbia rather than try to to gain one more turn of survival by turning on Italy.
Pre-game: Throughout this game I would rarely ever intentionally made a bald faced lie except for one thing. This is the first diplomacy game I've ever played. Well technically second, but my first game was over email and that went inactive after the first turn. So everything I told everyone about me having played this game before or having seen certain moves before, were complete lies. Anyways, to hide my noobness I spent most of this pre-game reading up strategies and tactics online which gave me a decent idea of how a standard game should open. Based on this info I figured I'd be able to rationalize any outside-of-the-box moves. Diplomatically only two major things happened during this period. First, Turkey started talking to me about an alliance to crush Austria (an alliance commonly known as "The Juggernaut") which I agreed to. We figured we could hide our intentions from everyone else by forcing a stand off in the black sea, a move that's usually standard in a juggernaut, but it's also very common in Turk-Russian conflicts. Then there was France, since he was far from me at the time I told him that I figured he could be the one guy I could just BS to about the game without having much consequence. While this was mostly true, I also thought that it'd be easier to spread rumors through the different countries by way of France. During our talks I also told him about how I was annoyed because I was originally supposed to play France and how I read that France is the only country that can take three centers in the first year and still come out ahead. This was actually completely true and I had no ulterior motives in telling him this, although I think that this conversation actually paved the way for everything that would happen later. Also, Germany and I agreed to leave Silesia a DMZ, which was no problem for me since I had no motivations to enter there yet.
After Spring 1901: First moves are set. Everything is going as planned between Turkey and I. Austria sends me a message saying "Austria doesn't approve" in reference to my move into Galicia, I figured he wouldn't like that, but I send him a note saying that I'm just making standard moves to get a feel for the game, which in a way I pretty much was. I wasn't dead set on an alliance with Turkey, but things seemed to be going fine. Germany makes a pretty unorthodox move that just happens to fit into an article I was reading during the pre-game. His opening paves the way for a strategy known as "The Centrifuge" an elaborate strategy that essentially sets Germany up to convoy the shit out of me. I had set this article aside thinking that I would use this strategy if I got Germany next game. I started talking to Germany about his aggressive behavior towards me, and he was saying how he was just making safe non-threatening moves to get a feel from everyone, which is how the article outlined you should act if questioned (although the strategy is primarily a gunboat strategy meaning that there shouldn't be any communication at all). Through my talks with England (mostly bs'ing) he told me that Austria and Germany were getting ready to steamroll me. I figure "whatever, I can take them".
After Fall 1901: Everything is going fine down in the Balkans. Turkey captured Greece despite his doubts, and I get Rumania. In the North I get Sweden and I notice Germany continuing with The Centrifuge, with one minor problem for him. France took my advice of taking three centers in the first year, but instead of going for Belgium as is common with that strategy, he takes Munich! Obviously I'm just ecstatic at this turn of events. By losing Munich, Germany doesn't get the two builds that are required for him to continue with his strategy. At this point I've pretty much written off Germany as a non-threat at this point. With my two builds I make two armies, one in St. Petersburg, and one in Moscow.
After Spring 1902: I move Moscow into Ukraine to support my advances in the Balkans, while I move my army in StP into Finland. England at this point had been talking about me giving him Scandinavia in return for support into Germany. I'm pretty much set against that plan, but I don't want to piss him off yet so I moved into Finland instead of going straight for Norway until I can convince him that I need Scandinavia more than him. Nothing else to note here. The Juggernaut is running on full steam as predicted, and my efforts in the North are going fine. Besides my talks with England there's nothing big in terms of communication except Italy and Austria trying to turn me against Turkey. I figure Turkey won't have any reason to turn on me until Austria goes down so I'm not worried.
After Fall 1902: I take Norway after convincing England that I just need the extra build for this year, and I take Budapest as well in the south. Nothing unpredicted yet. I get word from France that he's pissed now because he thought England was getting ready to stab him and began his advance towards Britain. He probably figured that England and Germany would ally up against him. Throughout the game these three powers will never hold an alliance for longer than a year it seems, which in my opinion is the reason none of them ever made any large gains in the early stages of the game. At the very least when I would talk to them it would seem as if they were constantly preparing to stab one another. Italy is still trying to turn me against Turkey, and I think Austria's about given up. By losing both Trieste and Budapest, Austria is forced to disband in Vienna with his army in Serbia having already been forcefully disbanded. I build a fleet in St. Petersburg on the south coast, and an army in Warsaw again.
After Spring 1903: I let Turkey hold Rumania temporarily in order to take Serbia in the Fall, still trusting my instinct that he won't stab me until Austria is dead. I move into Vienna to help land a killing blow if I can hold it for the Fall. I negotiate with France into letting me help him support Burgundy into Munich which he agrees to at first. England also tells me that he's ready to take Norway for himself now, which I (stupidly) oblige to. Although before moves are finalized France tells me that he won't be moving into Munich, so I scramble moving all of my orders around, and in that moment I decide "fuck England" and hold my army in Norway.
After Fall 1903: My trust in Turkey was well placed as he moves out of Rumania as expected, while managing to take Serbia and Trieste. I still hold Vienna as I hoped, and Germany gets an extra unit due to his liberation of Munich from last turn which he still holds. England is kept out of Norway, but I negotiate with him into letting me support him into Denmark, which he accepts.
After Spring 1904: England gets Denmark and I take Berlin, I'm pretty happy. Except Turkey begins to move against me via moving a fleet into the Black Sea and an army into Armenia. After a lot of communications, Turkey decides that his units are needed in the south to protect against Italy. To make sure he isn't bluffing I still set my units to attack Serbia and the Black Sea, which wouldn't hurt him at all unless he moved against me (even then it'd only make a minor dent against his advance). I talk to England about supporting me into Kiel, but he doesn't respond until midnight telling me that he's going to move his fleet in Denmark into Kiel, apparently not realizing that he'd be giving up Denmark completely by doing so since you don't gain a center unless you hold it during the Fall. Unfortunately England told me that his orders are finalized and that he'd be going to sleep and wouldn't wake up until after the dead line. I figure that this actually works for me, I support him into Kiel while taking Denmark for myself (better off giving it to me than Germany )
After Fall 1904: Turkey actually went and retreated his units like he said he would. I'm relieved because this was the opportune time for Turkey to attack and he backed out. By not attacking me now he's pretty much given up on attacking me ever (at least this is what I was thinking at the time). In the North, I take Denmark as I figured, while England gets Kiel, but loses Holland. I know for sure now that France will be my main opposition in the North as England and Germany are pretty much out. I make plans to attack Turkey since I figure that I won't be making the same mistake as him. I don't plan to make my intentions obvious this next turn, but preparations are underway. With Italy attacking it'll only be a matter of a turn or two until I find the perfect moment to strike. I realize that my best move would've been to support, building a fleet there would've made things a lot easier, but that can't be helped, I needed some insurance. I build in Warsaw and Moscow, going for a safer build hoping that these armies can help me push in either direction depending on how the other countries build. I also started playing around with jDip around this time. I plan out a few scenarios with Turkey continuing to attack me, all of them either end with me eventually overwhelming Turkey or both of us at a stalemate. While I obviously can't go through every single scenario, I'm pretty confident in my position.
After Spring 1905: After seeing the way France has moved, I've decided to retire all of my ambitions of conquest in the Ottoman Empire and instead choose to pour my resources into cutting France's expansion. I try to make amends with Turkey, give some coaching to England, and make negotiations with Italy into helping me stop France (which he declines...pompous bastard). I also see that France is set up perfectly to stab Germany while still maintaining an offensive against me and Italy. I try to warn Germany along with a few other countries in the hopes that by denying France any German lands, I can stall his advancement long enough to set up a strong enough wall on my territories to force a draw. Really regretting that I supported England into Denmark. I should just told him to fuck off and go back to Britain. If I would've done that then France might not have gotten so strong, England would still have some influence, and I would've been able to take Germany myself, albeit a few turns longer than I would've liked.
Year of 1906: France becomes a threat to me as he tells me that he's going for the win rather than just simply hoping for a draw. England says that he's given up and will do whatever I want him to. My alliance with Turkey has been reestablished and we agree to work out a draw next turn and that if France doesn't take it this upcoming year or in the next year, then we'd work at wiping out Italy and France. I figure I can hold France out from the North long enough for Turkey to wipe Italy out (which he estimates will take 3 years or longer). Once Italy is gone we should have a straight path to France.
Year of 1907: France tells me that he shares my interest in ending this game quickly and agrees to a draw once we wipe Germany and England out, which we do. I start the vote for the draw and it passes. Game over, with me in "first place" with 13 centers
On June 16 2009 15:45 Macavenger wrote: Heh, you didn't really help put the juggernaught together, FYI - we were always very much together from the start, we just weren't admitting it to anyone because Austria also wanted to be my friend against Russia and I was stringing him along, figuring the longer he danced to the tune I was calling the better. I was taking extra care to act stupid about the idea of allying with Russia to you because I knew you had some dealings with Austria
Interesting notes. I have some vaguely similar stuff I was maintaining as we were going until about 1903 when I abruptly started having less time for a few days. I might try to clean them up and add a few thoughts on the later years and post them tomorrow.
haha yeah, we thought we were being sneaky by not telling anyone straight up. Our alliance was put together more like this...
Turkey: 'sup Russia. Austria sandwich kk? Russia: OK! Turkey: JUGGERNAUT Russia: WE'RE THE JUGGERNAUT BITCH!
Edit: oh, and it seems I was completely wrong about France's reasons for taking Munich
Did Austria order A Rum S A Arm-Sev in S02? Trying to figure out what that yellow line is.
Also, since the idea of live commentary got a fairly tepid response, what would you guys think of me doing it delayed by a few turns - like only talk about 1901 moves after 1902 is over or something?
As for delayed responses...hmmmm...I think I can get behind that. Maybe a two year difference instead of one year, although I could be fine with either. Should wait for others to weigh in though.
On June 28 2009 21:05 writer22816 wrote: France and Russia are so powerful in this game and I'd hate to draw Italy lol
haha yeah that's why me (england) and italy went after France from the beginning in this game. If we play again I'd like to try one of the varients, like maybe the 1901 varient.
I always start typing stuff in this thread then I delete it because it inevitably gives away info I don't want to give away before game 2 is won... I mean over.
Statistically England and France are the best 2 powers actually, with Russia either third or fourth depending on how you're playing - in postal games Russia is third, in FtF and tourneys it's fourth. I've read speculation that this is because Russia effectively participates in both of the main "triangles" of the board, and thus needs multiple stable alliances, which are more difficult to cultivate in the limited time frame of FtF games. IIRC Russia flops with Turkey depending on game type, then Germany is fifth, then Austria, finally Italy, at least in terms of pure win rate.
Honestly, while the balance isn't perfect, I still believe it's close enough and skill/diplomacy will make a larger difference in the vast majority of cases.
I joined a few random games on the site since there didn't appear to be enough TL people interested for a second earlier when I was trying. The skill range on the site is tremendous - my French ally in one game is really great to talk to, tactically and strategically saavy, and thus far loyal (which is generally a good thing until there's a good reason not to be). I've also spotted at least one "famous" figure who's published articles on the game etc., but then the level runs all the way down to plants who won't even talk to their neighbors. Sadly the gems seem to be kinda rare at least until you get up into higher site rating levels, which I'm attempting to do right now. :p
Since writer has popped in and this thread is bumped, maybe I should start sending some PMs again to see if there's any interest for another game again. Playing a game with players who can all actually construct coherent sentences in their press would be neat. >.>
Well after next week or in two weeks, I won't have internet for like a month or so. I'd still be willing to play more game, although anyone who has me in their game would have to be patient for me to get on a library/neighbors computer or something.
On June 30 2009 04:22 ShadowDrgn wrote: You know we're still waiting on your moves Falcynn.
oh shit, sorry lol, forgot to finalize. Also, I'm kind of pissed at this game right now =/ I rushed too many of my moves near the beginning putting me in a horrible position now. Despite me having more centers than Russia and Turkey, I'm probably about as equally fucked as them due to my crappy positioning.
On June 30 2009 06:04 ShadowDrgn wrote: Everyone but Austria and England are fucked. Welcome to the club.
I was going to say you didn't look totally fucked yet, but yeah, that forward retreat to the Tyrrhenian is pretty much a death sentence for you, at least if Austria uses it right.
Id be interested in getting in on some games, although I usually play on playdiplomacy.com, willing to try something else. Send me a PM next time one gets started up.
So for people already with accounts over there - there's a "best computer game of all time" thread running on the forum right now. Starcraft has thankfully been mentioned a few times, but not nearly enough. We must fix this! :p
The actual rules to the game are very simple as there are only 3 distinct orders: move, support, and convoy (4 if you count holding, which is really a non-order). Resolving all the orders can get tricky when a lot of units all try to move to the same spot, but the game software handles all that. You do, however, need to understand the resolutions to properly strategize...
I think the moves themselves and the resolution of them are easy to grasp. But knowing how to strategize and communicate properly when you're not an experienced player is a challenge. I think I learned a lot in game 1 that I was able to apply in game 2. The result seems to be more or less the same, but at least I feel I had some chance to make a game out of it this time.
Final score: * luddite (117) as England: 18 supply centers * MoltkeWarding (100) as France * ShadowDrgn (108) as Italy: 9 supply centers * Falcynn (100) as Germany, in civil disorder: 1 supply centers * stenole (100) as Austria: 1 supply centers * NewTank (95) as Turkey: 5 supply centers * Musoeun (100) as Russia
try this one out.. wont disappoint. instead of 6 players you can also play it heads up and just play with 3v3 each its not in the rules but definitely works great
Some commentary from my point of view on game 2: + Show Spoiler +
I decided to open much riskier than I had in game 1 by going for Serbia and Rumania and having a fleet in Albania so I could decide who got Greece. I also tried to get Germany to play the most Austrian friendly opening he could do which succeeded. Both Italy and Turkey also opened Austrian friendly which caused me to choose Turkey as my first victim, because keeping him in the game long term forces me to either put a load of trust in him or to keep half my army guarding my back. I would have liked to be more subtle when going against Turkey but Italy insisted that I should just assume Turkey knows that I am not his friend. Eventually it turned out that Italy left me stranded in the east after promising to help carve the Turkey. I also used whatever diplomacy I had to pit the English and the Germans against Russia. I ended up revealing some plans that Germany had given me in confidence to England in order to keep me a little stronger than my German neighbour. I underestimated how fast France would fall though so it proved to be a bad decision. Germany and I had some miscommunication that ended up hurting him pretty bad. Still, he stayed loyal to our alliance. I made a deal with Russia that he would get a chunk of Turkey if I let him have 2 of the Turk SCs. I intended to actually go through with it but after negotiating it, however I decided that if he actually trusted me, it would be better for me to just kill Russia. In retrospect it might have been smart to have kept my end of the bargain in order to get Turkey out of the game early. At this stage of the game I had been making as many fleets as my one port SC allows, both because it would speed up things against Turkey and because I needed them in case of an Italian attack which seemed more and more likely looking at how England seemed more geared towards taking Germany instead of pushing forward or even holding France. The Italian army in Venice made it a certainty and even though I was half-prepared, I was still half-unprepared. Through some luck I managed to hold him off for a while, but my defenses were spread thin because I still had a raging Turkey at my back. As England's success became more and more apparent, I increased my diplomatic efforts with Italy. Surely he would prefer a draw than to have England win. I drew my forces away from Italy in order to try to spark some will to kill the English. So that is how a 10 SC Austria becomes an irrelevant 2 SC nation holding Portugal and Moscow. On the bright side, Turkey's rage was quelled, so he proved that he wasn't a completely unreasonable player.
I tried to open neutrally, but the English move into the channel and the Italian move west threw me off immediately. I had to give up one SC on turn 1 to guard my rear, and tried to encourage Germany to team up with me against England. Germany made a lot of noise but was idiotically obsessed with Russia. It was clear that both Austria, and, inexplicably, Germany, decided to remain without the West, so I was on my own against England and Italy with no possibility of pressure from Austria against the latter, and only empty promises from the former against England. I let the English in the north so that he would be in a position to swat the perdifious teutons down, and eventually the irrational Italian too. Germany's double-dealing annoyed me to no end at that point, and my goal was to see him die.
In our first game, I was Italy, and I had been frustratingly stuck at 4 centers for pretty much the whole game. I knew there was a possibility of that happening to England, too, and I was determined not to let that happen. I decide on a make or break strategy- attack France with everything I had, right from the beginning. France is a hard country to invade, though, so I needed help. I decided to get Italy as an ally, partly because he had been a good ally in the first game, and partly because we could split up France between us with a nice buffer zone. I was lucky enough that my opening moves against France succeeded almost perfectly, and even luckier that Russia moved against Germany, which distracted him while me and Italy finished off France.
I had told Russia that I'd help him take Sweden, and at the time I was sincere, but then I changed my mind and decided to take St. Petersburg. I'm not sure if that was really a good move, since I didn't need the extra build at the time, and it forced Russia to ally with Germany against me. It was fun though .
After that it seemed like I had no choice but to attack Germany. I could have stabbed Italy then, maybe, but it would have been very difficult- the western Med is a real bottleneck! And I knew that Austria and Germany were working together, so I was hoping for Italy and Austria to be stuck in a stalemate while I finished off Germany. Actually I had been expecting Austria to win that battle, since he was larger, but I underestimated just how dangerous Turkey is even with only 3 centers. That really helped me a lot, I hadn't been expecting a solo victory until that happened.
My fight against Germany was a lot of fun. Luckily he didn't react against me until I invaded holland. After that, there was a lot of guesswork involved, trying to predict where he'd defend and whether or not he'd counterattack. Having Denmark was crucial for me, since it split his forces in half, but I was always terrified of losing that army. But once Germany was finished, it was just a matter of getting across the stalemate line, and Italy didn't have enough fleets to stop me from getting into the Mediterranean.
On July 15 2009 19:20 MisteR wrote: Very interesting, these after game thoughts! Is there a third game incoming?
I won't be able to be in game 3 because I'll have more than a few days that I can't log on in the near future. Macavenger was talking about starting a game 3, so you should PM him to see if he has people lined up to play. I assume you wanted to play.
On July 16 2009 00:19 Luddite wrote: Actually I had been expecting Austria to win that battle
No faith in your ally.
Stenole did a brilliant job tactically as Austria. I was foolishly hoping to beat him without letting Turkey loose, but even after I realized that wasn't going to happen, he still managed to prevent me from helping Turkey for an extra year. Ultimately, neither of our starting positions were defensible. I played for second place; he played for a draw, but I wasn't accommodating because I didn't think it was right to cheat Luddite of a victory just because everyone remaining was apathetic.
People not finalizing their turns really hurt the game. I like having a full day for diplomacy, and of course due to time zones having turns any shorter wouldn't be feasible. However, dragging out the retreat and placing phases dragged the game on so long that people stopped caring. That first weekend where we spent all Friday on a diplomacy phase (no problem) followed by Saturday for retreats and Sunday for unit placing was ridiculous. Waiting that long for retreat orders is unacceptable, especially when there are no valid retreats for a unit! I'm not terribly interested in another game, but if we do, I hope turns move more swiftly.
Yeah, that was pretty ridiculous, and of course I say that realizing that I was the cause of much of the delays near the end of the game Although after all of the previous delays I got in the habit of checking in on the game only once a day (and sometimes not at all...I really do apologize for that) rather than 12 times a day like the previous game.
I'd possibly be up for another game, but if we do another game we should schedule certain days and times where everyone will be logged in so we can bust out a few years in one day hopefully.
Alright, anyone up for making another game? Except for Saturday and Sunday mornings I'm gonna have a lot of free time through out the week now. So I'm hoping if we get a game fast enough we can play through at least a few turns/years this Friday, then try to play at least 1-2 turns per day after that. I'll keep the pace set to 24 hours since life calls, but if anyone's up for a game either PM me or post here.
I haven't read any of this thread but I fucking love diplomacy, count me in if there's a game coming. Cue me reading back to figure out what format you're using.
EPT
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