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How do you judge somebody knowledgeable? Played 1k games, watched 500 pro replays and read 100+ guides? Been on a high/pro team? Been in invite only leagues? Got VIP on DL?
You risk the same problem as advanced SC2 players have, they judge casters from their point of view. While the caster should know those things, they shouldn't cast them all that often since there is other stuff happening. Where a DotA caster should expand on things is in the pick phase, why are they picking what they are picking now, what can we look forward to. I find it hard to know the lanes they have planned sometimes, knowing if they will babysit or roam and so on.
Basically, how should a caster cast for it to be optimal for DotA? Considering there is always something happening after the creeps have met.
(I just got back to playing again, have played over 4k games previously and got about 150 played on iccup these past two weeks, just to get back into it. Was in a "high" skilled clan that was nowhere near the top levels, played support.)
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The fact that you are able to articulate your thoughts and understand why things are being done. And no, I am not judging casters from that perspective I am judging casters based on what they have done and shown, not from their game experience.
The reason I shit on Tobi so much is because whenever he casts I find this urge to move the camera around to the lanes that I know will have some kind of castable material.
Ironically all the stuff you listed about picking and banning is pretty irrelevant in the big picture, you don't have to play the crystal ball seer when trying to figure out line ups, that shit comes in less than 5 minutes at times. Basically, there's no real need for you to go into some super deep discussion/analysis about the line ups or picks since you can highlight all of that after their intentions are made apparent. Guessing what teams are going to do ahead of time has no real merit in the first 5-10 minutes of game time.
Rather, the important part comes from being able to explain the why behind each decision, move, death, item, etc. while all in the framework of playing the game. Remember, it's easy to forget that players have fog of war and you as the caster do not. That's the difference between 2009 and a whole host of other shitty English casters, he casts it based on what teams know and only what each team knows. Like Soul Ring Morph is pretty fucking shitty most of the time except 2009 explains why that Morphling needed or thought to have needed to get one in that particular game. That's knowledge, not fucking regurging whatever the fuck is going on the screen and being on the wrong part of map at that.
Edit:
Basically, I feel that most English casters do not do a good job of deciding what to say during the game. Some things I feel like is better reserved for the post-game review or when the game stalls in the action as they need to be expounded upon and others need to be addressed during the game concisely the moment it happens.
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On August 12 2011 03:51 Kragx wrote:
Tobi needs cocasters who understands the game. In general, I think you need 2 persons to cast DotA games properly, a play-by-play caster catching all the action, and an analysist checking items, creep stats etc.
I do hope joindota will open up when Dota2 is out, and when it leaves beta.
Yes... Slesh + Tobi is quite watchable, and they should do okay at gamescon.
Luminous + 715 is a combo I'm liking a lot.
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Synderen and Hit0mi was pretty good, but both lack personality. The Chinese casters were really solid for every event I watched.
I agree about the double casting.
What I really want to listen to is are the team vent/teamspeak/skype chats during picks/bans.
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On August 12 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:
What I really want to listen to is are the team vent/teamspeak/skype chats during picks/bans.
Wouldn't that only be possible with a LARGE delay or recorded and played after the game? If they hear your planned picks it changes the bans and picks for the other team. You might also talk about a level 1 FB attempt during picks as that is when you have time to plan things like that.
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On August 12 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:
Synderen and Hit0mi was pretty good, but both lack personality. The Chinese casters were really solid for every event I watched.
I agree about the double casting.
What I really want to listen to is are the team vent/teamspeak/skype chats during picks/bans.
Would actually be very interesting.
There is a big difference between what the different teams thinks and drafts.
Also, Hit0mi was very good at casting when he did it for a short amount of time. He seemed to understand the game well enough being an old pro, and he's of course perfectly fluent in english.
MadMortigan + SyndereN were also good together.
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What a coincidense. I was bout to come and express my concerns for dota casting.
1st) Tobi dude sucks. I can't understand him like 90% of the time. Before you bash me, yes english is not my native language but I have no problem understanding everyone else whatsoever. Even milkies(the caster).
2nd) I think Dota needs high level players as casters. The nature of the game is such that demands clear cut and insightful observations. Otherwise one might just describe whats on the screen, ezpz but bad casting.
3rd) I'd like to hear many stats and anecdote stories for the players. Dota is a game with quite a few ''dead'' timings, so these will make a cast more interesting. Sort of like in football when theres not much shit happening, the caster will begin saying where has this player started his career, that other's player top scoring record etcetc.
4th) Any casters besides Tobi that I could check out?
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If you want to listen to good caster that is very knowledgeable + fluent then go check out Synderen. He is really really smart and he plays at a very high level ( will be at gamescom with Nevo as captain). So he knows the players first hand and their thinking and style. So you can compare it like DeMuslim commentating SC2. He is the best analytical commentator in Dota by far but he does decent play by play as well.
I believe Tobi really want him to be his co-caster to compliment him but unfortunately Synd is often unavailable because of his playing capacity.
He is now at mym.tv if i'm not wrong but I first hear of him when he was casting with MadMortigan. Not sure if those vods still exist.
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On August 12 2011 04:34 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 04:26 Judicator wrote:
What I really want to listen to is are the team vent/teamspeak/skype chats during picks/bans. Wouldn't that only be possible with a LARGE delay or recorded and played after the game? If they hear your planned picks it changes the bans and picks for the other team. You might also talk about a level 1 FB attempt during picks as that is when you have time to plan things like that.
Everything should be delayed at least 10 minutes anyways. How many ddos incidents have we had now?
Dear god I went through the first page of this thread and the posters on there....the people who are no longer posting for whatever reason...
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SyndereN is definately the best we have atm but he's still far from as good as he could be. He likes talking alot which causes him to miss stuff quite often and he puts alot of emphasis on details that aren't -that- significant to the game as he he occasionally makes them out to be.
It'd be horrible if Tobi kept the monopoly on casting major DotA 2 events for more than a few months though...
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On August 12 2011 03:52 Yurie wrote:
How do you judge somebody knowledgeable? Played 1k games, watched 500 pro replays and read 100+ guides? Been on a high/pro team? Been in invite only leagues? Got VIP on DL?
You risk the same problem as advanced SC2 players have, they judge casters from their point of view. While the caster should know those things, they shouldn't cast them all that often since there is other stuff happening. Where a DotA caster should expand on things is in the pick phase, why are they picking what they are picking now, what can we look forward to. I find it hard to know the lanes they have planned sometimes, knowing if they will babysit or roam and so on.
Basically, how should a caster cast for it to be optimal for DotA? Considering there is always something happening after the creeps have met.
(I just got back to playing again, have played over 4k games previously and got about 150 played on iccup these past two weeks, just to get back into it. Was in a "high" skilled clan that was nowhere near the top levels, played support.)
somebody who can sit down, watch and analyze any high level game play-by-play coherently in relation to potential plays, the current styles of play, whats key to winning the game for either team at some time, without having watched that particular game before.
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Australia8532 Posts
Chu Streaming!?!?! This should be interesting lol :p i wander if he is any good anymore. All that LoL has to have an effect :p
First day streaming >1800 viewers :O
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How hard do you guys think will be for someone who's never played 1 game of dota ever, but is decent at hon(1750mmr~) to make the transition to dota 2?
Is the gameplay alot different?
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Who here has played dota 2? How do you expect to get an answer to that question?
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On August 12 2011 07:31 JeeJee wrote:
Who here has played dota 2? How do you expect to get an answer to that question?
somebody in TL DotA has played Dota 2
not saying who 
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On August 12 2011 07:42 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 07:31 JeeJee wrote:
Who here has played dota 2? How do you expect to get an answer to that question? somebody in TL DotA has played Dota 2 not saying who
jelly.
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I wonder who...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8X2YB.png)
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kupo should cast. every time he says anything i'm just astounded by the depth. he should team up with ziggy, cause they have nice chemistry.
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EPT
