EPTthis channel has a bunch of good CoF math + strategies. the XP and Gold ones are useful too
Last Epoch - Page 3
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
this channel has a bunch of good CoF math + strategies. the XP and Gold ones are useful too | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
Stash tabs ~50% cheaper at endgame, and fixed Profane Veil + Runemaster ward bugs | ||
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Archeon
3265 Posts
On March 01 2024 01:23 Ryzel wrote: That is a super surprising ranking. OoC what makes Grim Dawn so bad? EDIT - I’m getting Deja vu as I read this back, did I ask this in the D4 thread? Sorry if I have lol My ranking roughly looks the same. Despite having a cool scenario, GD imo falls really short on it's delivery, in terms of narrative it's imo the worst of the bunch. The constellation system is cool as hell, but the sheer amount of different elements limit the build variety a bit and tbh I feel like the class system is largely a delivery system for the constellation effects. So I check out these 'cool' but really flat skills and they aren't really anything to look forward too, cause they're just the delivery system for your constellations. All in all it feels like there are two systems in place when one more concise would have been better. It also leads to class choices not mattering as much because your power largely comes from the constellations and class mainly decides which you are going to pick. GD's item system is imo better than people say. The additional skills items add open up build options and while I think that f.e. D2 largely beats it, D2 has an excellent item system if you disregard that 99% of the drops are trash. I think I'd rate D2>=LE>=PoE >>> TQ/D3/D4/GD. I get why ppl rate PoE over D2 and LE, but I still don't like the skill system in PoE and it's grindy as fuck. PoE is targeting ppl who want to play it 7 days a week for 5 months in a row and for them it's perfect, but that just isn't what I want from an ARPG. PoE has very good design though, I enjoy the lore and if you don't mind dash screen explosions dash screen explosion gameplay it's nice. D2 probably has the best mob design in terms of gameplay, I really enjoy how enemies teach lessons to the players and especially early on require players to play around their behavior. They try this a bit in d4, but it's nowhere near as good. D2 also has a decent trade system, an interesting item system with runes and gems and a ton of "here's a corner you can cut to get a decent budget item" catches. It's problem is that a lot of uniques and sets are hot garbage and how melee vs magic classes scale with gear, also endgame. It's also hands down the best ARPG in terms of atmosphere and storytelling imo, by a mile. I'd give second place to D4 in that regard, but that's about the only thing D4 excels in. It's not terrible else, but not exceptional anywhere. LE imo is a modernized version of D2, with complex skilltrees, decent enemy design, decent atmosphere, reskilling, and narrative endgame. The storytelling is only soso though and I feel like the passive tree isn't that interesting, or at least wasn't when I last played it. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2682 Posts
On March 14 2024 07:40 Archeon wrote: My ranking roughly looks the same. Despite having a cool scenario, GD imo falls really short on it's delivery, in terms of narrative it's imo the worst of the bunch. The constellation system is cool as hell, but the sheer amount of different elements limit the build variety a bit and tbh I feel like the class system is largely a delivery system for the constellation effects. So I check out these 'cool' but really flat skills and they aren't really anything to look forward too, cause they're just the delivery system for your constellations. All in all it feels like there are two systems in place when one more concise would have been better. It also leads to class choices not mattering as much because your power largely comes from the constellations and class mainly decides which you are going to pick. GD's item system is imo better than people say. The additional skills items add open up build options and while I think that f.e. D2 largely beats it, D2 has an excellent item system if you disregard that 99% of the drops are trash. I think I'd rate D2>=LE>=PoE >>> TQ/D3/D4/GD. I get why ppl rate PoE over D2 and LE, but I still don't like the skill system in PoE and it's grindy as fuck. PoE is targeting ppl who want to play it 7 days a week for 5 months in a row and for them it's perfect, but that just isn't what I want from an ARPG. PoE has very good design though, I enjoy the lore and if you don't mind dash screen explosions dash screen explosion gameplay it's nice. D2 probably has the best mob design in terms of gameplay, I really enjoy how enemies teach lessons to the players and especially early on require players to play around their behavior. They try this a bit in d4, but it's nowhere near as good. D2 also has a decent trade system, an interesting item system with runes and gems and a ton of "here's a corner you can cut to get a decent budget item" catches. It's problem is that a lot of uniques and sets are hot garbage and how melee vs magic classes scale with gear, also endgame. It's also hands down the best ARPG in terms of atmosphere and storytelling imo, by a mile. I'd give second place to D4 in that regard, but that's about the only thing D4 excels in. It's not terrible else, but not exceptional anywhere. LE imo is a modernized version of D2, with complex skilltrees, decent enemy design, decent atmosphere, reskilling, and narrative endgame. The storytelling is only soso though and I feel like the passive tree isn't that interesting, or at least wasn't when I last played it. Hah, this (bolded) makes me wonder how D2 would feel with loot filters. PoE and LE certainly do much worse than 99% of drops being useless, but loot filters make it so you only see 10% of the loot, so it doesn't feel as bad. As for the bugfixes - the only bug I know of that impacts my build right now is the fact that the "increased effect of haste on you" implicit of Vanguard Boots literally doesn't do anything. Tbf it's a difference of only 7-15% movespeed so not like it's major, but I use Wrongwarp, so it's also 21-45% increased spell damage. | ||
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Archeon
3265 Posts
On March 14 2024 08:23 Fleetfeet wrote: Hah, this (bolded) makes me wonder how D2 would feel with loot filters. PoE and LE certainly do much worse than 99% of drops being useless, but loot filters make it so you only see 10% of the loot, so it doesn't feel as bad. As for the bugfixes - the only bug I know of that impacts my build right now is the fact that the "increased effect of haste on you" implicit of Vanguard Boots literally doesn't do anything. Tbf it's a difference of only 7-15% movespeed so not like it's major, but I use Wrongwarp, so it's also 21-45% increased spell damage. Tbf the 99% of D2 are a hyperbole unless you're already through the game essentially. Runes are always useful, gems are largely useful and rares are going to stay useful for most of it's playtime. D2's largest issues are pot addiction and that there's nothing really to do once you've killed Baal. Obviously there are vast differences in quality regarding uniques, but that goes for pretty much every ARPG. | ||
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Miragee
8655 Posts
On March 14 2024 08:23 Fleetfeet wrote: Hah, this (bolded) makes me wonder how D2 would feel with loot filters. PoE and LE certainly do much worse than 99% of drops being useless, but loot filters make it so you only see 10% of the loot, so it doesn't feel as bad. I honestly think loot filters are a bandaid, not a solution. Imho they are just bad game design if their intended use is to reduce the amount of trash you see. I think loot filters can be a useful addition to a game if they are meant for simple stuff like highlighting for target farming. I refused to use loot filters in PoE for the longest time until it really got too much, even for me. In LE, a friend and I play without loot filters and it's already really fucking annoying during leveling... Like holy hell, why can't you just have less items dropped. I agree that in D2 most items were actually trash and the system and the amount of drops weren't perfect, either, but there were a lot less drops than in PoE and LE... | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2682 Posts
If all the fruit in the world CAN drop, but right now I only care about apples and bananas, it's handy to only filter for apples and bananas. As I develop my tastes, I might figure out that it's bananas and cherries I actually want, plus I have a friend that really wants mangoes, so I can keep an eye out for those. As my tastes refine further i can start specifying shit like cherries that are this shade of red with a stem and no more than one blemish, and so on. This system is better than a system that just dropped less fruit, because the ENTIRE SYSTEM is player-driven. The devs haven't had to decide to set up a system that only allows int and cdr to drop for mages, players are presented with the entire gamut of options and allowed to make their own decisions in that space. Where these systems fail is when they become too cumbersome for your normal player to interact with, and instead are a choice made by an algorithm tapped into the market that can tell you this particular cherry is a really valuable cherry, without the player having to know why. This is where PoE is at currently, and understandably so. Imo LE's current system is too cumbersome to set up for basic use atm, and I'm hopeful for improvement in the future. That said, I get why the systems are designed this way and honestly have had a lot of fun building a loot filter as I go. | ||
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Latham
9572 Posts
Something like "Caster - leveling (shows only staves, wands & scepters)" or "Melee Filter" "Rogue - Bows only" | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2682 Posts
Given the amount of UI bugs currently that seems unrealistic, but that's the kind of angle I'd hope for. Current LE loot filter functionality is great, but the UI for setting up is honestly pretty shit. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45437 Posts
On February 27 2024 22:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: For me: Diablo 2 > Last Epoch > PoE > D4 > D3 > Grim Dawn. I'm really enjoying Last Epoch. I particularly like how smooth, responsive, and consistent the combat and waves of enemies are. Boss battles are good. Graphics are solid too. Difficulty level is a little easy, and leveling up takes a tiny bit longer than I'd prefer, but that's okay because I like exploding everything on the screen and I like to keep moving. The skill tree customization is phenomenal, there's decent replay value and a variety of builds, and there are a lot of quality-of-life improvements (respeccing is easy, loot filter is solid, waypoints/portals are everywhere, the "transfer materials" button in the inventory helps immediately move out some items, etc.). Not everything is perfect, of course. Some of the affixes/attributes from items don't feel like they do much (increasing % chance of X, increasing % damage of Y, being level 62 yet still having zero or single-digit points in vitality and dexterity, etc.), making me feel like my gear isn't as impactful as in other games. The few cinematic scenes are poor quality (I think I'm just spoiled by Blizzard's cinematic scenes), and the story / time-hopping just isn't interesting or engaging for me. Each era or region is a different environment with different monsters, but the feel of running through these areas can start to feel redundant. Very few sidequests / other objectives too, meaning that there's not much use in exploring unless you want to kill all the monsters. It's very formulaic: enter a location, then run straight and kill monsters until you arrive at the exit, leading to a new location's entrance. Repeat. I recommend the game overall though; I'd give it a 7/10. I'll play through most of LE five times - once with each character - to about level 60-70. Then I'll probably be done with it. I've completed what I set out to complete, and my positive assessment hasn't changed much. Very pleased overall with the combat and gameplay of Last Epoch. I made these 5 characters and grinded them to around the 50s and 60s: Beastmaster, Paladin, Sorcerer, Necromancer, and Marksman. I found all 5 characters to be fun and unique. The extremely linear progression and lack of story makes it a little tough for me to persist past level 60 or so, since the skill trees are pretty much done by then. I had previously written "leveling up takes a tiny bit longer than I'd prefer", but I think the developers did a better job with this than I had first given them credit for. I'm also really, really impressed with how the mobs of basic monsters, special/unique monsters, and the bosses/mini-bosses lead to fast, high-octane, exciting battles... with one exception that I absolutely hate: + Show Spoiler + Lagon, God Of Storms. Seriously, what the fuck is this boss fight? Getting one-shotted by bosses is bad game design, especially if over-leveling and maxing out resistances still doesn't stop being insta-killed, and especially especially in a very long fight that completely resets with a single, unlucky misstep. Memorizing attack patterns is one thing, but I feel like there's also a significant element of getting lucky that's required, especially if your character doesn't have super high mobility. This fight really seems completely different from everything else in this game, and I just completely detest it. At times, it actually felt unfair to me. Maybe, after taking a hiatus for the next few months or so, I might return to Last Epoch and create another 5 characters using 5 masteries that I haven't explored yet (and then, perhaps, some time after that, I might do a third round for the final set of 5 masteries). Solid game. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2682 Posts
Extra downside for me is that my character is lightning-y and arguably wants both the items he drops and the blessings he provides in endgame content you didn't get to, so I've had to fight that fight altogether too many times. We have basically opposite playstyles - I've played one mastery ever, across two characters (first time got lvl 93ish, now am lvl 95) and for me and how I like to play games, it's kept giving me opportunities to better understand mechanics and further refine my build within my build fantasy. Even within my mastery it feels like there's 3-4 viable alternatives that I've seen for dealing damage, so for players that like to dig deep into one character and not explore the whole field, it still feels like there's a ton to explore, and not Diablo 3's "Well if you're making a Monk you go this set, or this set, and that's it" | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45437 Posts
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Archeon
3265 Posts
Lagon has been notorious since his introduction years ago pretty much. It was somewhat justifiable when he was the final boss, similar to how Kitava is a huge diff spike in PoE, but with the changes in terms of plot not so much anymore On game design: I love the skilltrees and all the synergies in between. I'm less in love with the passive tree, but I still prefer it over PoE's tree of madness. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2682 Posts
On March 19 2024 04:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's a really interesting point. I've definitely noticed other ways that I could have built the masteries I've chosen so far, with all of the different skills and trees available within a single class. The fact that you and I can both explore our characters deeply, with such different playstyles / approaches to the game, is a testament to how well the LE crew designed the classes. Oh, absolutely, and honestly it'll only get wider as the idol / unique pool deepens. I'm playing Shaman right now and basically putting everything I can into making Storm bolts do more damage, but in passing I see stuff like "X bees per 10 seconds" on idols (AMAZINGLY worded affix btw) or "Upheaval shatters totems" combined with "10% chance to summon thorn totem on hit" from idols and the fact that in the Thorn Totem skill tree you can get it to summon 5 totems simultaneously... you have fringe build-around options just from what's available now. They've set themselves up to add new types of idols, and given the types of rolls they currently have and how they can enable niche builds, I look forward to possibilities of masteries being able to reach outside of their conventional build scope if you really wanted them to. It's already a thing (My current build has 3 mage-centric uniques as probable Best-in-slot) and I look forward to it continuing in the future. On another topic, I have mixed feelings about how endgame dungeons currently work. The rewards systems vs the added difficulty are nowhere near in line. Most of the reward I'll get from completing... idk, T4 arena, is from prophecies. In all cases, it prevents two choices, and regardless of the rewards I'll pick the one that keeps difficulty lowest, because 3+ prophecies are gonna pop when I win, and doing a t4 arena boss with +650% health and damage for a few extra exalted items and a legendary chestpiece I don't care about isn't worth it. Even in the case before prophecies, the choices felt flat, as it was often a potentially useful 'exalted rings' at a cost of 50% increased damage and health vs a unique weapon that probably is worthless for a 160% increase of both. I wouldn't be farming arena for specific uniques outside of boss drops, so I'm hoping these choices are rebalanced and offers stuff like "This specific unique with 1-3 LP", as well as 3 choices instead of 2, for basically all endgame dungeons. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
Lagon reminds me of Kitava, in that it feels pretty overwhelming at first but can be overcome with experience. Though I'd say Kitava (and PoE bosses in general) have way better animation telegraphing. It's really obvious when Kitava is going for a slam compared to Lagon's claw smash Though to be fair, I've only played OP builds I looked up. I'm going to try to homebrew some builds and maybe I'll have more trouble then. I agree endgame dungeons need a lot of work. The barriers really annoy me. I get they wanted to introduce some amount of variability, but I would've preferred randomized layout / tileset, not a bunch of road blocks. Especially since you can actually get past the roadblocks with very specific traversal skills, but not all. Like, Acolyte's Transplant doesn't work, but if I make Chthonic Fissure into traversal it works - but I don't want to be forced into doing that | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2682 Posts
On March 19 2024 07:39 EchelonTee wrote: NGL, I like Lagon. I think it's better that there's at least 1 "oh shit" boss. Otherwise the game would be wayyy too easy. His attack patterns can be learned, and only the laser beam is really a one shot. If the claw one shots you it's a defense issue, IMO - or you can hide on the stairs. The waves in the ads phase always go in one direction (Clockwise or Counter clockwise, I forgot), so that's super easy, you follow behind the waves. And you can just skip him if you really want (even on a first playthrough). Doesn't help if you need to farm him in Monoliths though Lagon reminds me of Kitava, in that it feels pretty overwhelming at first but can be overcome with experience. Though I'd say Kitava (and PoE bosses in general) have way better animation telegraphing. It's really obvious when Kitava is going for a slam compared to Lagon's claw smash Though to be fair, I've only played OP builds I looked up. I'm going to try to homebrew some builds and maybe I'll have more trouble then. I agree endgame dungeons need a lot of work. The barriers really annoy me. I get they wanted to introduce some amount of variability, but I would've preferred randomized layout / tileset, not a bunch of road blocks. Especially since you can actually get past the roadblocks with very specific traversal skills, but not all. Like, Acolyte's Transplant doesn't work, but if I make Chthonic Fissure into traversal it works - but I don't want to be forced into doing that Moon beam (projected circle nuke) also oneshots me with 115% overcapped cold/light, 2.8k hp, 1.8k armour and about 30% dmg resist besides. Two of my defensive layers don't work against Lagon (frailty and other debuffs can't be applied to something you cant hit, and the other is a damage reduction contingent on proximity, which I can't tell if it works because Lagon proper doesn't have a hitbox) but yeah the circle also hits hard. (For comparison claw attacks do barely over 1k, am around 150 corruption vs Lagon) | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45437 Posts
On March 19 2024 07:39 EchelonTee wrote: NGL, I like Lagon. I think it's better that there's at least 1 "oh shit" boss. Otherwise the game would be wayyy too easy. His attack patterns can be learned, and only the laser beam is really a one shot. If the claw one shots you it's a defense issue, IMO - or you can hide on the stairs. The waves in the ads phase always go in one direction (Clockwise or Counter clockwise, I forgot), so that's super easy, you follow behind the waves. And you can just skip him if you really want (even on a first playthrough). Oh, fuck me. TIL: https://dotesports.com/last-epoch/news/campaign-skip-last-epoch | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
Season 2 coming out April 2nd They also did an interview with Zizaran and Raxx + Show Spoiler [Youtube interview] + | ||
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FaCE_1
Canada6184 Posts
Poe 1 is still my best game but for me, Last epoc is better then poe2 so, cant wait to play that ! And all the change they are doing are going in the right direction. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
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