• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:30
CEST 02:30
KST 09:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down0[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22306 users

F1: Ten year engine freeze.

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
October 24 2007 18:41 GMT
#1
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071024153519.shtml

I don't know about you but this is exactly half the reason i watch F1:
[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


=(((((
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
October 24 2007 19:38 GMT
#2
I don't get it? why would they do that?

the reason is that the carmakers won't provide free engines? is that it?
Rillanon.au
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
October 24 2007 22:05 GMT
#3
yep i really fail to see what can be the real motives here.
Originally they were talking about making teams equal how lesser teams cant catch up to the rich ones, but hell, how you gonna fix it by not making them develop and stalling em with the lame engines they have now?
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
mcmascote
Profile Joined September 2004
Brazil1575 Posts
October 25 2007 06:19 GMT
#4
If they don't do that F-1 has death in its future.

Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, BMW, Honda, Toyota would push theirs budgets to extreme levels and in the end few of them would keep teams there...
The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
October 25 2007 07:33 GMT
#5
So the team with the best motor 2008 will have an advantage over 10 years. If you consider the aerodynamics are equal.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
BlackStar
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Netherlands3029 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-25 10:20:01
October 25 2007 10:17 GMT
#6
I thought F1 was about technological innovation.

F1 is not much of a sport anyway.
If they want to know who is the best racer they should give everyone the same car, level the playing field.

They consciously choose not to level out the playing field, but they still want to level out the bigger bumps.

[edit]

Ooh, it's actually worse. They just freeze the unfairness out of fear of it becoming larger. so now neither innovation nor a level playing field. What is the logic behind that?
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17238 Posts
October 25 2007 11:41 GMT
#7
Does anyone know if they finally decided to remove most of the electronics in the cars? They debated it for a long time because driver's skill wasn't really showing up (this cars automatically start because the driver could make too many mistakes at this point, the tech crew can change vehicles settings while it's on the track etc. etc.).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Raidern
Profile Joined February 2005
Brazil3811 Posts
October 25 2007 12:13 GMT
#8
so the engine will stay the same for 10 years?

damn i really don't understand it very much

the engine of everycar will have to remain the same?
For the Swarm!
white_box921
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United Kingdom967 Posts
October 25 2007 13:20 GMT
#9
lol! this is so funny, so what happens to the shit team now? They can have the best aerodynamics and least mechanics failure with best driver in car and still lost due to a rule set 9 years ago?
ToKoreaWithLove
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Norway10161 Posts
October 25 2007 13:35 GMT
#10
On October 25 2007 20:41 Manit0u wrote:
Does anyone know if they finally decided to remove most of the electronics in the cars? They debated it for a long time because driver's skill wasn't really showing up (this cars automatically start because the driver could make too many mistakes at this point, the tech crew can change vehicles settings while it's on the track etc. etc.).


No TC from next year, they will all use the same ECU (from mclaren tech, branded as microsoft). Autostart systems are banned but they get around it with clever tc and clutch systems. They are no longer allowed to change anything about the car from the pit wall.

*after qualification all cars are in "park ferme", meaning they can't touch them. They can look at things but not change anything.

And about the engines. All current F1 teams uses engines from one of the six manufacturer teams:

Toyota supplies Toyota and Williams
Ferrari supplies Ferrari, Toro Rosso and Spyker
Renault supplies Renault and Red Bull
Merchedes supplies Mclaren
BMW supplies BMW
Honda supplies Honda and super aguri

All engines are 2.4L v8 engines, rev-limited to 19000rpm and gives somewhere around 700hp. They are all pretty equal at this point, probably max 20hp difference, and you can easily gain that by small aerodynamic changes.

Engine development may be frozen completely, but there will still be rom for improvements in recoverable energies like reusing brake enegy (Toyota Prius is a road car that utilizes this) and releasing this energy when needed.

I also have some opinions:

Right now we have 2-race engines. This sucks horribly, because it leads to everyone turning their revs down at every opportunity, killing overtaking and racing. They want 4-race engines, something that will suck even more. For example in the last race in brazil hamilton had a fresh engine compared to alonso, meaning he could take a few more high revs out of his engine, effectively giving him a faster car. Last year ferrari even brought a special engine for the last race (no rev limit then) and absolutely demolished the field. Massa could have lapped everybody. Schumacher made up 72 seconds during the race.

Combine the long-life engines with the current horrible points system where the winner only gets 2 points more than #2, and it is easy for championship contenders to cruise and collect - like Alonso did in both 05 and 06, like Hamilton and Alonso and partly Kimi did this year. It sucks, and is bad for racing.
ModeratorFather of bunnies
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
October 25 2007 14:22 GMT
#11
On October 25 2007 22:35 ToKoreaWithLove wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2007 20:41 Manit0u wrote:
Does anyone know if they finally decided to remove most of the electronics in the cars? They debated it for a long time because driver's skill wasn't really showing up (this cars automatically start because the driver could make too many mistakes at this point, the tech crew can change vehicles settings while it's on the track etc. etc.).


No TC from next year, they will all use the same ECU (from mclaren tech, branded as microsoft). Autostart systems are banned but they get around it with clever tc and clutch systems. They are no longer allowed to change anything about the car from the pit wall.

*after qualification all cars are in "park ferme", meaning they can't touch them. They can look at things but not change anything.

And about the engines. All current F1 teams uses engines from one of the six manufacturer teams:

Toyota supplies Toyota and Williams
Ferrari supplies Ferrari, Toro Rosso and Spyker
Renault supplies Renault and Red Bull
Merchedes supplies Mclaren
BMW supplies BMW
Honda supplies Honda and super aguri

All engines are 2.4L v8 engines, rev-limited to 19000rpm and gives somewhere around 700hp. They are all pretty equal at this point, probably max 20hp difference, and you can easily gain that by small aerodynamic changes.

Engine development may be frozen completely, but there will still be rom for improvements in recoverable energies like reusing brake enegy (Toyota Prius is a road car that utilizes this) and releasing this energy when needed.

I also have some opinions:

Right now we have 2-race engines. This sucks horribly, because it leads to everyone turning their revs down at every opportunity, killing overtaking and racing. They want 4-race engines, something that will suck even more. For example in the last race in brazil hamilton had a fresh engine compared to alonso, meaning he could take a few more high revs out of his engine, effectively giving him a faster car. Last year ferrari even brought a special engine for the last race (no rev limit then) and absolutely demolished the field. Massa could have lapped everybody. Schumacher made up 72 seconds during the race.

Combine the long-life engines with the current horrible points system where the winner only gets 2 points more than #2, and it is easy for championship contenders to cruise and collect - like Alonso did in both 05 and 06, like Hamilton and Alonso and partly Kimi did this year. It sucks, and is bad for racing.

well i do believe that its not the hp that is main concern now, but rather efficiency and reliability.
Storing and releasing brake energy? Now i am no technical wiz but i really dont see how u can do that without interfering with the engine in compliance with the rest of the FIA rules.

Well 2 race engine could be a neat concept in theory, adding more strategical possibilities, but seemingly it isnt working out. I don't think they should they should kill it off alltogether, but i do think they need the punishment to match the crime, so the teams could juggle whether they want it now, or it is not worth it.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
October 25 2007 18:32 GMT
#12
to avoid creating a new topic:
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071025093707.shtml
lol

twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: ProLeague
18:00
Bracket Stage: Day 2
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
CosmosSc2 165
NeuroSwarm 144
Livibee 137
RuFF_SC2 44
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2530
Rain 1270
Artosis 1023
Icarus 5
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
tarik_tv8391
Dendi2439
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1723
PGG 18
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang014182
Mew2King172
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor160
Other Games
summit1g7876
FrodaN1738
shahzam1015
JimRising 659
elazer282
ViBE219
ToD126
Maynarde125
KnowMe70
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream8924
Other Games
gamesdonequick776
BasetradeTV140
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH298
• Hupsaiya 70
• davetesta15
• gosughost_ 4
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki16
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler89
League of Legends
• Doublelift6171
• Shiphtur783
Other Games
• imaqtpie1192
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
10h 30m
Replay Cast
23h 30m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 10h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 10h
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL Code S
3 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Cheesadelphia
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.