EPTIt has been fun, and I hope it will recover full force, but I am not sure that is possible at the moment. T_T
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 168
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TelecoM
United States10673 Posts
It has been fun, and I hope it will recover full force, but I am not sure that is possible at the moment. T_T | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On August 23 2024 08:06 Waxangel wrote: https://playstormgate.com/news/update-on-our-priorities-for-stormgate Update today with some some announcements. The biggest thing I noticed was: "Addressing art, audio, and more Early Access, like our previous development phases, is about improving the game with each release as we move towards achieving our vision for 1.0. That said, we’re well aware that many players had higher expectations in terms of art and audio for our day one Early Access release, so we’re going to dedicate significant efforts to improving key areas that players have identified need additional work. We’re going to be updating the body proportions for the unit models in our in-game cutscenes and reworking Amara’s character design. We’re also going to be making changes to our map visuals that we’re excited to roll out for you all to see." While it's hard to know what exactly this entails, I think this is the first time they're acknowledging that the "stylized" art isn't working? Will have to see the exact changes to know for sure, but MAYBE it's a mindset shift in the right direction. The patch is supposed to fix the co-op bug and they brought 3v3 forward, that looks better For the art, the style wasn't made for me - i guess the biggest problem was that almost everybody felt that it wasn't made for them either  I would sc2 with more realism on e.g. textures/materials, reflections, even stuff like water shaders (a friend and i made one for a free mod which is better than what they currently have ingame). It's UE5, they have the baggage of UE5, but they're not using nanite or lumen or even any kind of raytracing. Bring on the shiny metallic mechs and tanks with randomised dirty sections that are less reflective. This runs at 300fps on modern hardware! There are very problematic performance issues, but they are on the CPU simulation which means that graphically intensive work can be added with minimal performance drop. | ||
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Spirral
62 Posts
On August 23 2024 03:21 SoleSteeler wrote: I'm in a similar boat: I know people will just say, "if you enjoy it, play it! It doesn't matter what others think" but it's very true that all the negativity will cause others to most likely stay away. People are so damn passionate about hating the game - if I don't like a game, I just ignore it. I guess people are passionate about it because they actually do want a new, good RTS to play. The criticisms are valid, nevertheless. Yeah I think you are spot on here. I did criticise SG a couple times before and even felt bad about it later, because I really want it to succeed, so not feeling great with adding to the negative sentiment. But I would not have done it if I was not invested (emotionally) in the first place. I think people are just generally let down by the broken promises and the fake hype that FG produced, because in current state there is nothing to be hyped about sadly. On the contrary there may also be people who really want the game to fail, because of personal reasons or simply not wanting the remaining playerbase to migrate from SC2, BW or whatever. To compare it to e.g. Battle Aces, which I did not enjoy too much either, but I did not go about criticising it, because it's clear to me it's not the game for me and no one was trying to market it to me as the next big Blizzard style RTS, so I do not feel let down. With FG it felt all the time like they were targetting specifally me as the target audience for the game, but then they release something that feels completely off the mark, not even close. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
To compare it to e.g. Battle Aces, which I did not enjoy too much either, but I did not go about criticising it, because it's clear to me it's not the game for me and no one was trying to market it to me as the next big Blizzard style RTS, so I do not feel let down. With FG it felt all the time like they were targetting specifally me as the target audience for the game, but then they release something that feels completely off the mark, not even close. Yeah i have zero interest in battle aces but it looks like a pretty great game that delivers. Stormgate is supposed to be so much more but it just isn't right now and may not ever be, due to the funding situation. There are also real issues with the whole "four pillars" (campaign, co-op, custom, competitive) and "first social RTS" which were huge marketing and kickstarter points but IMO neglected and mismanaged thusfar with a surprisingly narrow view on 1v1 - what i personally view as the least relevant mode both to the popularity and monetary success of the game. A lot of us have been thinking about this game and company for many years already, and waiting for a real successor to SC2's campaign/co-op/custom for many years more still. We're along for the ride whatever happens, good and bad. | ||
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Tal
United Kingdom1015 Posts
I was watching the start of Demu’s stream earlier and he was staggered no changes to dogs had been made and that longstanding bugs still hadn’t been addressed. Seemed deeply unimpressed with the game overall. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1716 Posts
On August 24 2024 01:39 Tal wrote: The patch is pretty disappointing. Feels like the kind of minor changes you’d use for a successful fully released game, not in the alpha stage where so much could be improved. I was watching the start of Demu’s stream earlier and he was staggered no changes to dogs had been made and that longstanding bugs still hadn’t been addressed. Seemed deeply unimpressed with the game overall. Looks like they are taking a step back from wider design changes and just tweaking balance with numbers. | ||
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Husyelt
United States832 Posts
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SoleSteeler
Canada5427 Posts
big patch with new content (some more some less) smaller patches in between for immediate balance concerns until the next big patch When they design even a small patch, they likely have a few days to identify what they want to do, write it, test it, put it live. So if new issues/bugs arrive a week after the patch contents are finalized, they either have to wait till the next balance patch, or delay the current one. Not every balance patch will contain every fix unfortunately. (Although it doesn't seem too bad right now?) | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 23 2024 20:05 Spirral wrote: With FG it felt all the time like they were targetting specifally me as the target audience for the game, but then they release something that feels completely off the mark, not even close. That's exactly where I'm at. I had every reason to be excited for this title. I'm exactly the player that Frostgiant should have wanted to play their game. And this game is a total miss. I'm genuinely disappointed. This isn't just another game that I can say "oh well, might as well move on to something else." This was supposed to be my new RTS. I was looking forward to dumping thousands of hours into this game, to being active in its community and to watching its esports scene grow and develop. And now I want nothing to do with it. If people are more passionate about voicing their displeasure with the game then that's why. It's because they actually expected something from it. Frostgiant has no one to blame for that but themselves. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2869 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 24 2024 11:28 Vindicare605 wrote: That's exactly where I'm at. I had every reason to be excited for this title. I'm exactly the player that Frostgiant should have wanted to play their game. And this game is a total miss. I'm genuinely disappointed. This isn't just another game that I can say "oh well, might as well move on to something else." This was supposed to be my new RTS. I was looking forward to dumping thousands of hours into this game, to being active in its community and to watching its esports scene grow and develop. And now I want nothing to do with it. If people are more passionate about voicing their displeasure with the game then that's why. It's because they actually expected something from it. Frostgiant has no one to blame for that but themselves. Funny thing is as a Broodwar guy this is exactly how I felt with SC2. I then went back to BW after a year or so lol. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On August 24 2024 19:17 Qikz wrote: Funny thing is as a Broodwar guy this is exactly how I felt with SC2. I then went back to BW after a year or so lol. I was never as competitive in Brood War as I got in Starcraft 2. I played it mostly with my friends in a LAN party set up, I never got deep into 1v1 competitively, so I never understood the flaws that Starcraft 2 had early on, even though some of my friends that were bigger into Brood War saw them, especially regarding things like Protoss design and deathballs. Also I along with everyone else was really disappointed with the lack of social features and the horrific state of the arcade when the game first launched. In hindsight I totally understand why people would have been disappointed with Starcraft 2 from that perspective. But the one thing that I don't think anyone can really take away from SC2 is the quality of its campaign. Even if you don't like the story much, the quality of the actual gameplay of the campaign was ridiculously high for 2010, and still hasn't been matched in the nearly 15 years since by any other RTS. But yea, single player campaign quality can only keep a player interested for so long on its own. If the multiplayer doesn't click with someone, they will just stay with whatever RTS they like better. For you it's Brood War, for me it will be Starcraft 2. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4231 Posts
On August 24 2024 17:11 RogerChillingworth wrote: I feel like MegaBuster was wrongfully banned. I would like him back. you can probably copy paste one of his rants from the past and get the same result. He was a one trick pony, it was not adding much. I'm not in the same boat as you guys as i was not looking for a new 1v1 rts....but i did hope for something like a good SP RTS. which interests me much more than 1v1. As soon as the first videos started coming out it looked like everything i dont like about sc2 art, but 10x worse :/ So that alone killed it for me. Everything else that happened after was just confirmation that that first feeling was a good one. Still i linger in this thread from time to time to understand if something huge has happened or changed since the last time, but chances of that looked ever slimer. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16710 Posts
On August 24 2024 21:24 KobraKay wrote: I'm not in the same boat as you guys as i was not looking for a new 1v1 rts....but i did hope for something like a good SP RTS. which interests me much more than 1v1. As soon as the first videos started coming out it looked like everything i dont like about sc2 art, but 10x worse :/ The Dune RTS is on sale on Steam. You might like that? Northgard on Switch is on sale for $10. On August 24 2024 19:17 Qikz wrote: Funny thing is as a Broodwar guy this is exactly how I felt with SC2. I then went back to BW after a year or so lol. I was a big Brood War guy and I ended up loving SC2. My top 2 RTS's of all time are SC2 and SC1. TL does a commendible job managing the impossible task of both communities. IMO, both games are pure genius. Rob Pardo is a genius. Anything he did as game designer is very hard to replicate. So people are expecting a lot from Stormgate. Tim Morten has been solid on many levels of work in the video game industry. However, I do not think he possesses the genius of Rob Pardo. Also, Samwise Didier is an artistic genius. He is another guy you can't just snap your fingers and replace. "And To All the Enemies of Humanity... Seek Not to Bar our way... for we shall win through... .NO MATTER THE COST!" If you have a spare 3 hours here is an lengthy analysis. This video really needed a cat or a dog running around. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25333 Posts
On August 24 2024 20:22 Vindicare605 wrote: I was never as competitive in Brood War as I got in Starcraft 2. I played it mostly with my friends in a LAN party set up, I never got deep into 1v1 competitively, so I never understood the flaws that Starcraft 2 had early on, even though some of my friends that were bigger into Brood War saw them, especially regarding things like Protoss design and deathballs. Also I along with everyone else was really disappointed with the lack of social features and the horrific state of the arcade when the game first launched. In hindsight I totally understand why people would have been disappointed with Starcraft 2 from that perspective. But the one thing that I don't think anyone can really take away from SC2 is the quality of its campaign. Even if you don't like the story much, the quality of the actual gameplay of the campaign was ridiculously high for 2010, and still hasn't been matched in the nearly 15 years since by any other RTS. But yea, single player campaign quality can only keep a player interested for so long on its own. If the multiplayer doesn't click with someone, they will just stay with whatever RTS they like better. For you it's Brood War, for me it will be Starcraft 2. It’s a phenomenal RTS game as a full package, they both are. Took a little time for SC2 to get where it is today of course. One thing the sequel has over the OG is campaign replayability. Brutal can be tough enough if you’re not playing abusively, especially if you’re trying to do mission achievements at the same time. Plus you have various narrative forks and unit customisation, and you can’t do it all in one playground. And I am (was) a decent enough 1v1 player, but it can be tricky at times! I gather there are some great custom campaigns the community made for both too, but one thing they really missed a trick on was improving the campaign in Remastered. Without difficulties etc it’s a complete cakewalk for any vaguely experienced RTS player. But I think you don’t tend to see too many go from cutting their teeth in SC2, or games of that era, who go and then pick up BW competitively. BW is a great alternative to go back to if you prefer it to SC2. I do know one guy who did, enjoyed the process but told me it took a hell of a lot of work to get anywhere at all. Same with WC3, albeit also because Reforged fucked it so hard. In our group, the guys thinking of switching and maining WC3 were mostly (myself included) people who put a lot of hours into it the first time round. If one came into the genre with SC2, or it was your first time playing seriously competitively, you like aspects of the game but end up frustrated with deathballs, terrible terrible damage, or just burned out from overplaying, there’s not many alternatives that play similarly, or are straight up as good. You can either play other RTS games that are often very good, but also often very different. Or learn a game from like 98 or 2003, against people who in some instances, never stopped playing. Not a great suite of options so it’s absolutely no surprise that Frost Giant generated the hype that they did. There is clearly an audience there, but can anyone deliver the product? Same with another 90s stalwart that is a shadow of its former glory in arena shooters like UT or Quake. The Doom Reboot/Eternal showed there actually was a pretty sizeable audience who either liked the return of, or first experienced more of those old-school mechanics, but with some modern twists. A pretty decent commercial success for Bethesda. Almost in parallel, they published Quake Champions. A game so tailored to competitive Quake players, that even I was a bit put off. A real lack of just ‘pop in this server and drag’ casual lobbies of various game modes, modifiers etc which all the old games had. Is the classic arena shooter dead because of the second example? Or is there a clear appetite for it based on the former? Would say, a much-expanded multiplayer mode, bolted onto an already successful reboot of an iconic franchise, that aped what made its forebears great while having modcons, maybe have been the much, much better way to revitalise the arena shooter than a multiplayer-focused, hard of the hardcore game? I’m getting into rambling territory haha, but I guess my fear that (IMO) bad execution is going to be seen as yet more evidence that there isn’t an appetite for this kind of game. So long as that perception takes hold it’ll become the reality and we won’t get to find out  | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria370 Posts
On August 24 2024 17:11 RogerChillingworth wrote: I feel like MegaBuster was wrongfully banned. I would like him back. He was our William Wallace. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2869 Posts
On August 24 2024 01:39 Tal wrote: The patch is pretty disappointing. Feels like the kind of minor changes you’d use for a successful fully released game, not in the alpha stage where so much could be improved. Vibe brought up a really good point in one of his recent videos about how finding ways to modify/talent up the shit you specifically like to build, and how you play, would go a long way in making the game more fun. Currently, it feels very difficult to differentiate players. It feels like the vast majority of people are doing the same thing, and unfortunately that -thing- isn't super compelling atm. Unit designs and tech trees are mostly to blame. There's also a lack of non-linear utility stuff in the game. Hexen mine is like the only thing I can think of. There could be more of this stuff. At any rate, I always read patch notes and feel like things are being sanded down instead of built up. The small buffs here and there don't fundamentally change any interactions. Unfortunately, most of the cool and fiery stuff in these games gets panned by players for being too OP or "unfun to play against" or whatever. The two that I can think of are the medtech's system shock ability (speedboost) and atlas-evac drop. I don't even know if system shock is still in the game but it had lots of potential to be cool when not used on exos (another problematic unit, ugh). It was a start at least. Things like this are fun. Hexen mine is fun. Give moar. People complain that we get Sc2-lite or whatever but at the same time are pretty quick to dismiss more interesting ideas. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
On August 24 2024 19:17 Qikz wrote: Funny thing is as a Broodwar guy this is exactly how I felt with SC2. I then went back to BW after a year or so lol. Sc2 was in hindsight a horrible game at the time. It definitely made some improvements over BW in terms of graphics and responsiveness but played out very poorly. Today I think the game quality is immensely better. | ||
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Bacillus
Finland1932 Posts
On August 25 2024 02:39 RogerChillingworth wrote: Vibe brought up a really good point in one of his recent videos about how finding ways to modify/talent up the shit you specifically like to build, and how you play, would go a long way in making the game more fun. Currently, it feels very difficult to differentiate players. It feels like the vast majority of people are doing the same thing, and unfortunately that -thing- isn't super compelling atm. Unit designs and tech trees are mostly to blame. There's also a lack of non-linear utility stuff in the game. Hexen mine is like the only thing I can think of. There could be more of this stuff. At any rate, I always read patch notes and feel like things are being sanded down instead of built up. The small buffs here and there don't fundamentally change any interactions. Unfortunately, most of the cool and fiery stuff in these games gets panned by players for being too OP or "unfun to play against" or whatever. The two that I can think of are the medtech's system shock ability (speedboost) and atlas-evac drop. I don't even know if system shock is still in the game but it had lots of potential to be cool when not used on exos (another problematic unit, ugh). It was a start at least. Things like this are fun. Hexen mine is fun. Give moar. People complain that we get Sc2-lite or whatever but at the same time are pretty quick to dismiss more interesting ideas. I'm just getting into the game and totally out of the loop of previous iterations, but it feels like the more 'fiery' features often stick out if they're isolated. Something like Brood War has them everywhere and suddenly they fit in because you're outplay the one nasty thing with another. Meanwhile a single one can look out of place. I guess it comes down to developer having some kind of big picture on what makes their game fun and sticking to their guns. Just looking at one feature isolated and reacting to feedback around it seems like 'desing by community' in the worst kind of way. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16710 Posts
On August 25 2024 04:06 Hider wrote: Sc2 was in hindsight a horrible game at the time. It definitely made some improvements over BW in terms of graphics and responsiveness but played out very poorly. Today I think the game quality is immensely better. Nah, in hindsight SC2 was incredible. Campaign was amazing with its various difficulty levels. 2v2 and other team games were great. Cinematics were incredible. The story that made Chris Metzen tear up was great with a super cool ending. And 95% of C&C and AoE 1v1 competitive playersthought 1v1 was really good. GameReplays.org downsized dramatically once the SC2 beta began. 1v1 play in RA3 , C&C3, and CoH could not compete. The weekly ConquerCup became the CraftCup and revenues skyrocketed for many months. 6 months after the game came out a weekly CraftCup with a $100 prize pool had 1100 participants. The CraftCup almost always had 500+ people. WoL did not sell all its copies on Day 1. Most got a good look at the game before buying it. The Retail Box and CE also blew C&C and AoE out of the water. ATVI did lots of great things promoting the game. I will never forget my July 26, 2010 all nighter at a great PC Bang. Everyone had a blast. | ||
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