EPTalso really happy they managed to get an esport manager in time
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 165
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kAra
Germany1387 Posts
also really happy they managed to get an esport manager in time | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
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SoleSteeler
Canada5448 Posts
A fair assessment for some parts of the game. He wasn't like "no one should play Stormgate" or "this game has no hope" he just wants to see a lot more development on it. FGS has a lot of work to do. The content patch in Sept will be a huge factor either way for the future success of this game, IMO. If they can get some "wins" from the community - anything, that will be good for them. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9644 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16859 Posts
On August 21 2024 16:07 gingerfluffmuffnr2 wrote: Its dead Jim. "It looks like a case of botulism Sam!", Quincy, M.E. I respectfully disagree sir. If Frost Giant can pare down to 10 employees or so I think the game will generate enough money to live on. Game making tools are getting better all the time. Last year dozens if not hundreds of games were successfully launched on Steam with very small teams. So a team of 10 can do wonders with today's tools. Epic Games also offers all kinds of cool games made by handfuls of people. Stormgate is competing against so many games like Northgard made by small teams. Steam's platform enforces competition. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20318 Posts
If Frost Giant can pare down to 10 employees or so I think the game will generate enough money to live on. Right now they have 66 employees at least according to this random site on google. The part that really sticks it for me is the argument (made by the community lead in front of the whole company) that they couldn't delay EA launch by even a few months for funding reasons. They had to launch summer because they needed the revenue from MTX in those months to continue development as per the business plan. That was a huge gamble. It didn't make sense to make it with such an unfinished build unless it was do-or-die, but it was done. They lost the gamble, which delayed any hope of a strong revenue stream by much more than the few months that was apparently financially inviable. Dev hours and a money tree fixes most problems but if that was really the situation, i wouldn't expect them to come back from it. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5448 Posts
 Should stabilize in a few more losses I hope. Some of the "cooler" SG units are definitely not as cool as SC/SC2/War3 for sure. Adding more functions to most/all units would be neat instead of mostly passives. Give the dog a "bite" that allows you to drag an enemy for 2 seconds. Stuff like that - just something random I thought of. I do get a nice feeling watching Atlases blowing up big groups of gaunts. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I also really like the hellborne guy, the windup and attack animation with the fireball splash always looks cool to me. Finally using weavers to abduct vulcans/atlases in one game I played was fun too. I like sieging hedgehogs for anti-air. Fiends wrapping around an army isn't as viscerally satisfying as zerglings (or even ghouls in War3) doing the same thing. Spectator-wise, disruptors, widow mines, lurkers, siege tanks, banelings etc. were always fun to watch blow shit up. I had mentioned a long time ago in Stormgate's discord that it's really cool when units such as the above can trade efficiently, either through good control or good use of terrain (space control). For example lurkers at the top of a ramp vs terran bio in BW or disruptors zoning out terran armies in SC2. Allows for more comebacks. I hope SG can get more unit interactions like that, in some way. When I posted it in SG's discord last fall, monk (one of the lead developers) said he loves those kinds of interactions also, which I was glad to see! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25881 Posts
On August 22 2024 00:36 Cyro wrote: Right now they have 66 employees at least according to this random site on google. The part that really sticks it for me is the argument (made by the community lead in front of the whole company) that they couldn't delay EA launch by even a few months for funding reasons. They had to launch summer because they needed the revenue from MTX in those months to continue development as per the business plan. That was a huge gamble. It didn't make sense to make it with such an unfinished build unless it was neccesary, but it was made, which suggests serious financial pressure. The gamble failed, there was minimal revenue and any hope of a strong revenue stream was delayed by much more than the few months that community members asked for. I'm sure it could be a lot better with a bunch of dev time and a money tree, but in reality i don't expect the game to come back from that. It’s not a great look either way, with to my mind only 2 plausible explanations: 1. They’d burned most of their cash, and well, on what? 2. They do have some reserves to polish the game, but thought it was a smart marketing strategy to put it out in this state. Dev hours can fix a lot of things but if the overall vision is flawed, that’s probably out of their remit. And that seems quite fragmented. Hell I recall when they were announcing and doing Q+As, the impression was that 3v3 with heroes was going to be one of, if not the main mode. I must say I quite liked that idea, few RTS games really succeed in making team games compelling, and the first one to really crack it could really reap the rewards. But then we have months of initial playtesting, show matches etc around a 1v1 mode that’s largely populated by very good RTS players? Given the current game, how do you pivot to a 3v3 + hero mode that doesn’t have all the same likely issues as most other RTS games have in team modes? Rushes that are holdable in a 1v1 setting that aren’t in teams. Games that end up borderline monobattles etc. This is just one example. There’s nothing wrong with just setting out to make a great 1v1 game, or a PvE game or whatever. But in this instance I just don’t see how they can make certain other modes work with this base. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25881 Posts
On August 22 2024 00:49 SoleSteeler wrote: I played more SG in the first week or so then not as much the past ~10 days. My MMR was "too high" when the playerbase was higher (or when there were more new players at least). Now I'm losing every game playing this week Should stabilize in a few more losses I hope. Some of the "cooler" SG units are definitely not as cool as SC/SC2/War3 for sure. Adding more functions to most/all units would be neat instead of mostly passives. Give the dog a "bite" that allows you to drag an enemy for 2 seconds. Stuff like that - just something random I thought of. I do get a nice feeling watching Atlases blowing up big groups of gaunts. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I also really like the hellborne guy, the windup and attack animation with the fireball splash always looks cool to me. Finally using weavers to abduct vulcans/atlases in one game I played was fun too. I like sieging hedgehogs for anti-air. Fiends wrapping around an army isn't as viscerally satisfying as zerglings (or even ghouls in War3) doing the same thing. Spectator-wise, disruptors, widow mines, lurkers, siege tanks, banelings etc. were always fun to watch blow shit up. I had mentioned a long time ago in Stormgate's discord that it's really cool when units such as the above can trade efficiently, either through good control or good use of terrain (space control). For example lurkers at the top of a ramp vs terran bio in BW or disruptors zoning out terran armies in SC2. Allows for more comebacks. I hope SG can get more unit interactions like that, in some way. When I posted it in SG's discord last fall, monk (one of the lead developers) said he loves those kinds of interactions also, which I was glad to see! The Hellbourne and Weaver I dig too, I also think they’re some of the better models. Most of the stuff I enjoy currently is some kind of active ability, or something obviously going ‘boom’. I think it feels better, it’s also visually clearer what’s going on too. The stuff I’m less a fan of is the endless, endless kiting with unit comps of 1/2 units and not much other interesting micro. I’m not sure passives scale as neatly, when fights get bigger it becomes harder to deliberately proc them, or prevent your opponent stacking them up. And it’s not as visually clear at a glance what is going on. Add to that veterancy and other mechanics too. Like, how many of those lancers bearing down on me have been hit enough to get the full speed bonus, and how much of that exo ball behind them are vets? Can I engage that? Ofc much comes with experience in gauging this things. I’ve barely got my hands on this, versus watching SC2 or playing it for a decade+ so some of those engagement judgements will naturally be harder anyway. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1808 Posts
On August 22 2024 00:49 Cyro wrote: Right now they have 66 employees at least according to this random site on google. The part that really sticks it for me is the argument (made by the community lead in front of the whole company) that they couldn't delay EA launch by even a few months for funding reasons. They had to launch summer because they needed the revenue from MTX in those months to continue development as per the business plan. That was a huge gamble. It didn't make sense to make it with such an unfinished build unless it was do-or-die, but it was done. They lost the gamble, which delayed any hope of a strong revenue stream by much more than the few months that was apparently financially inviable. Dev hours and a money tree fixes most problems but if that was really the situation, i wouldn't expect them to come back from it. I'm really curious if frost giant has fired anyone. Who is at fault what needs to change | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
On August 22 2024 00:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ... Game making tools are getting better all the time. Last year dozens if not hundreds of games were successfully launched on Steam with very small teams. So a team of 10 can do wonders with today's tools. Epic Games also offers all kinds of cool games made by handfuls of people. Stormgate is competing against so many games like Northgard made by small teams. Steam's platform enforces competition. If it was a new studio in eastern europe or in asia maybe. How do you even sustain the C suite? (which doesnt produce anything) Imo the most likely outcome: They will try to extract value out of the 1v1 players (like skins) and maybe release some kind of season pass to pay for content in advance into GG. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16859 Posts
Well lemme tell ya.. these alleged advancements in AI didn't make the AI in Stormgate play as good as the AIs in many other RTS games made 20 years earlier. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20318 Posts
If it was a new studio in eastern europe or in asia maybe. How do you even sustain the C suite? (which doesnt produce anything) I have friends who live on game dev (some even doing a 3-man indie studio) but they have 1/5'th of Tim's salary and more social media activity than FG. | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
On August 22 2024 01:21 Cyro wrote: I have friends who live on game dev (some even doing a 3-man indie studio) but they have 1/5'th of Tim's salary and more social media activity than FG. The whole FGS situation would make more sense if we talked about Stormgate 3: More Storm, after the studio had released their first two games and had a steady income. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16859 Posts
On August 22 2024 01:16 gingerfluffmuffnr2 wrote: If it was a new studio in eastern europe or in asia maybe. How do you even sustain the C suite? (which doesnt produce anything) the C-Suite needs to work the front lines. In my neighbourhood is a successful Mcdonald's restaurant. The owner has 3 of them. He works 15 hours per week in each restaurant. He takes out the garbage... cleans the bathrooms. The guy does everything. He works 6 days per week. I don't want to hear any whining from Tim Morten if SG goes bad ... I watch someone worth 10s of millions of dollars clean the washrooms at a Mcdonald's. | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
On August 22 2024 01:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the C-Suite needs to work the front lines. In my neighbourhood is a successful Mcdonald's restaurant. The owner has 3 of them. He works 15 hours per week in each restaurant. He takes out the garbage... cleans the bathrooms. The guy does everything. He works 6 days per week. I don't want to hear any whining from Tim Morten if SG goes bad ... I watch someone worth 10s of millions of dollars clean the washrooms at a Mcdonald's. In an ideal world mate, yeah. Kudos to that superstar CEO, who likely knows all his underlings by name. FGS is worth 150mil, the C suite did nothing wrong. We will get a letter blaming the changed situation regarding VC money and maybe stating that RTS arent a hit with players. (while AoE, AoM retold and the rest sell well) | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States674 Posts
On August 22 2024 01:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the C-Suite needs to work the front lines. In my neighbourhood is a successful Mcdonald's restaurant. The owner has 3 of them. He works 15 hours per week in each restaurant. He takes out the garbage... cleans the bathrooms. The guy does everything. He works 6 days per week. I don't want to hear any whining from Tim Morten if SG goes bad ... I watch someone worth 10s of millions of dollars clean the washrooms at a Mcdonald's. That's OG gangsta entrepreneur! not the SG..... | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21909 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1808 Posts
On August 22 2024 02:20 Gorsameth wrote: that self evaluation of 150 mil is all the giant alarm you need about how the studio arrived in this situation imo. I think I read they were expecting 50% of Wings of Liberty initial players? | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1808 Posts
On August 22 2024 02:20 Gorsameth wrote: that self evaluation of 150 mil is all the giant alarm you need about how the studio arrived in this situation imo. Here is an example of how a company may come up with a valuation. You can play with these numbers and see what they were expecting to arrive at 150mil. https://imgur.com/a/OvfegIv | ||
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