Sekiro was released today on the 22nd of March 2019, and it is an entirely new game from From Software that is known for their previous games like Demons' Souls, Dark Souls series and Bloodborne.
I am very surprised to not see a topic on this game already, since a lot of people were very hyped about a new From Software game.
My take on it so far is: This is not a souls game. In fact, it's more like Nioh that Dark Souls but make no mistake, the game IS CHALLENGING.
The combat flows superbly, favoring fluidity of exchanging blows with your opponent(s). You have parries, side steps, and jumps at your disposal and the enemies have leg sweeps, thrusts and tackles/grabs to spice up your encounters with them, aside from the normal flurry of attacks in a set number of patterns. You get a red warning sign when the enemy is charging up a particularly nasty attack, but its from their posture and tells that you have to figure out yourself which particular attack they will do.
Although you no longer allocate stats and don't get new weapons, that does not mean that the core gameplay is not there. It's just streamlined. You collect prayer beads from boss mobs (that do not respawn AFAIK) and you spend 4 at a time to upgrade your vitality which is your health and your posture, which is basically poise. You might think only wielding a katana can get boring, which I admit it does a bit, but to spice things up you have throwing weapons like shurikens, fists full of ashes and special techniques (moves) to spice things up in between slashes and thrusts.
Gourds work like Estus flasks and you got some basic cleanse fire/poison etc. items along with candy that buffs your defenses or attack power.
You can swim in water now and falling off a building or a cliff while swinging does not have a follow up of "YOU DIED" screen, which makes the experience very pleasant. Speaking of swinging, it makes the environment feel so vibrant, with various ways of approaching the enemy. Drop down on them from rooftops, sneak up behind them, charge in with your katana there are a lot of ways of dealing with trash mobs. The way you approach your objectives can vary depending on your playstyle.
Now what happens when you (inevitably) die? No more souls to collect/lose, right? Right. The only real way to die is to be killed (twice in a row) by the enemies. Once when you die, you get a chance to resurrect on spot with half the XP points intact, and at 1/2 hp. This game mechanic has a significant cooldown that can be used once per map, or you can refresh it by praying at a buddha statue which is a bonfire now. Just like in DkS3 you have the option to warp right from the start of the game to the places you've visited and back to your central hub. For killing enemies you gain some XP points that as far as I know can only be spent on special skills and techniques for your character that is a shinobi (think: ninja). The game has teased me that I could get back the lost XP from the first death back somehow, although I have not figured out how quite yet. 2nd death you lose your XP points for good. But death is no longer as punishing, and no more corpse runs to pick up souls.
Now I think I've been ranting long enough about all of this by myself so let me put my closing thoughts this way: This is not Dark Souls, don't expect it to be. This title shows how much From Software has matured as a game making company from their Demons' Souls days. The mechanics are solid, fluid and streamlined, but demanding and challenging. The game is not as punishing anymore with the needless deaths due to drowning or falling off a cliff, and needing to collect lost souls. The game focuses more on the user experience and enjoyment factor without beating you with a stick over the head for every little mishap. It brings the challenge in very technical fights rather than the environment.
I hope Ghosts of Tsushima and Nioh 2 are really pushing themselves after seeing Sekiro, I absolutely love the (sub-? hyper-specific?) genre and all three of these have so much potential.
I'm kicking myself for not making time to pick up a copy and play it myself after not being able to make time to play Kingdom Hearts 3 or DMC 5. Can't wait to see how Code Vein a.k.a. Anime Dark Souls turns out either.
Man I go to youtube and watch people like LobosJr or FightinCowboy play this game and I see them fight enemies they can make this shit look so cool. Like hit, deflect, deflect, hit, jump to avoid leg sweep, mid-air hit, block etc. They can create such a cienamtic flow in combat that it looks like choreography between their character and the enemy. Meanwhile here I am flailing like a monkey with fire ants up my ass, doing poking thrusts and jumping back, only daring to deflect only the most basic of enemies. Yari monks and longswordmen routinely fuck up my day when I run into them, and I cry myself to sleep if I can't do stealth takedowns on them.
On March 23 2019 09:28 GTR wrote: ghosts of tsushima and nioh 2 have a big target to achieve with how well sekiro has been received
Definitely. Honestly after playing Sekiro Nioh's gameplay feels obsolete.
I wouldn't say obsolete but... unrefined. This game shows that its better to focus on a smaller number of things, but get it right rather than doing many things but only doing them well. Its a well oiled machine, where all the cogs are working in harmony, like a swiss watch, this game.
On March 23 2019 21:42 Latham wrote: Man I go to youtube and watch people like LobosJr or FightinCowboy play this game and I see them fight enemies they can make this shit look so cool. Like hit, deflect, deflect, hit, jump to avoid leg sweep, mid-air hit, block etc. They can create such a cienamtic flow in combat that it looks like choreography between their character and the enemy. Meanwhile here I am flailing like a monkey with fire ants up my ass, doing poking thrusts and jumping back, only daring to deflect only the most basic of enemies. Yari monks and longswordmen routinely fuck up my day when I run into them, and I cry myself to sleep if I can't do stealth takedowns on them.
On March 23 2019 09:28 GTR wrote: ghosts of tsushima and nioh 2 have a big target to achieve with how well sekiro has been received
Definitely. Honestly after playing Sekiro Nioh's gameplay feels obsolete.
I wouldn't say obsolete but... unrefined. This game shows that its better to focus on a smaller number of things, but get it right rather than doing many things but only doing them well. Its a well oiled machine, where all the cogs are working in harmony, like a swiss watch, this game.
Unrefined is the perfect word for it to me. I hope Nioh 2 has a lot of the same, especially Nioh's unique "stance" combat system, but heavily refined and turned up to 11 (or 12 depending on what you thought of Nioh).
Though, what does start to feel obsolete to me now are skill trees. On one hand, I'll always love skill trees and personally feel like they're a timeless thing in almost any genre of video game; on the other hand, I don't feel like they can have a similar style of bog standard skill trees in the next game (next From Software game or Nioh 2 or Ghosts of Tsushima) and get anyone excited, and I'd might be a bit disappointed if any do have them. I could say the genre or setting or certain themes and tropes could get tired very quickly, but I'm doubtful of that happening soon (unless the next games are all flops, of course).
Otherwise, I can't wait to see what everyone does. All the teams are capable of standing out from any crowd, I hope they all push each other forward now that they're all in the same space. Gosh, I'm just excited tbh, gotta turn my hype down before I set myself up for disappointment.
The game is fantastic and I am sure after sinking many many hours the map won't feel some confusing. Feels like Dark Souls 1 except 4 times bigger. It's insane and I think im in love
I may or may not have beaten the Shichimen Warrior without knowing that I needed confetti. It may or may not have been a 20 minute boss fight of dodging purple balls.
The game is really interesting. I'm glad at the differences and departure from the typical Souls formula, and also surprised that my bad habits aren't carrying over or hurting me. It really keeps you on your toes, but when it works it feels so great. When compared to Nioh and such like folks have said, less is sometimes more, and it feels pure and visceral, free flowing. Fast but methodical.
Right now the only issue I'm having is bosses/minibosses. I don't mean that referring to difficulty, but I never feel like I'm doing them correctly. Whenever a fight feels like it's going well I feel like I'm cheesing it somehow, either by opening with an ambush attack or getting into some endless loop or kiting them around with terrain or something. When doing the fight "proper" I don't feel rewarded enough? Or that it would take forever? But maybe that's correct, it's not like it's making the fights "harder", just way longer, which makes me feel like I'm missing something. Example: + Show Spoiler +
On Lady Butterfly, you can get her into this rhythm of you attack 2-3 times until she parries, then you parry her kick follow up, attack 2-3 times again, she parries, you parry, repeat repeat. Obviously this doesn't work if she decides to jump around or something, but against the wall it doesn't seem like she ever jumped out, idk if it was a coincidence or just the AI. You can also "trap" her in this situation in phase 2 before she ever summons the adds. But it's so painfully slow that it doesn't feel correct? It's just strange. And the amount of posture damage she does with a couple attacks is pretty serious compared to the tiny amount of chip you're doing, like it's not always sustainable to block/parry it out, but if you jump away or back off they'll start recovering their own posture. I remember feeling similarly about the Drunkard too. The posture damage is so low that I never felt like I was learning anything or doing anything tricky or correctly, but eventually that tiny posture chip will give you the deathblow, as long as you never ever stop. But yeah, the bosses have just felt a bit weird so far, not that I've done a ton of them to be fair, but confusing and disappointing compared to the rest of the game. In a way where it feels like I'm missing something important, not that they're too hard or too dull.
Lady Butterfly made the game feel so wuxia in such a fantastic way despite the fight feeling a tad bit awkward. I think I like how little posture and chip damage the bosses take (after only fighting two) coupled with their sometimes explosive attacks against your posture/health. For me, it added a certain pace to the boss fights that Dark Souls was lacking, and an almost attrition war mini-game with your posture and chip damage versus theirs.
What I think made it feel a little awkward was how many "loops" (parrying, attacking, dodging/countering a perilous attack) I went through in each phase, though that was only on a few attempts since, for me, most of the time the boss AI seemed to do a pretty good job breaking up those loops (Lady Butterfly's "wuxia bullshit" jumping attacks).
*Speaking of wuxia bullshit, I hope there's a lot more that I can do as the game progresses.
This guy destroyed me... so many times I didn't bother to count. If you block him, he deals staggering amounts of damage to your posture, and deflecting his thrusts with Mikiri counter did little damage to his posture, not to mention it is also extremely dangerous to do so because he likes to do a follow up right after breaking out of your Mikiri counter. I actually cheese'd him hard. On the steps there is a ledge leading to the temple and you can hang from them. The melee AI can't deal with it and you can make swiss cheese out of his ankles and knees. Only boss I had to cheese so far.
This boss is very demanding mechanically, testing you on everything you've learnt so far in Sekiro. He is the gate keeper. He is the one who tells you to GIT GUD SCRUB. Your deflects have to be on point, your posture management has to be on point, you have to balance your aggressiveness with patience, knowing when to strike and when to defend. He does it all, tackles, sweeps, thrusts, shoots a ranged weapon. Way of Tomoe is a gimmick sadly that is only there to force you to use Reverse Lightning...
This lil cuck is the big brother of the smaller cuck you fight in past memories to get the Raven feather prosthetic limb thingy. Twice the HP bar, twice the cucking power. Very demanding skill-wise and mechanically. BUT you can manage by doding to the left of him and hitting once and doding again to soft stunlock him. Some abilities like Nightjar martial art from the prosthetic limb can help immensely with the fight. Or you can cheese the fucker with flamethrower or spear.
This boy rides a horse and seems VERY intimidating... until you stand your ground focus on your deflects and just grapple to him when he trots away on his mighty steed. He WILL wear himself down fairly quickly with his own attacks being deflected. 2nd phase he gets a bit more aggressive and a bigger move set, but now I suggest to use Firecrackers to soft stunlock him on his horse. The animal hates them very much. But do keep deflecting his spear.
This beast is annoying but not much else. Do whatever you need to do to dodge or deflect his first charge at you and then stay on his ass. Do not let him run away from you, hit once or twice and change position or follow him and stay on that Wagyu Steak's backside. If you find yourself in front of him and his horns, firecracker and go back to the ass part. Do not try to use all 15/16 charges at once thinking you can stunlock him to death. spoiler: you can't. Use them only to reposition and you'll do fine.
This guy, I love this guy. You literally only have to do 2 things in this fight. 1) Aggro him. Do not move your left stick any more. 2) Spam Left button to spam reflects, and I mean SPAM. S.P.A.M. Only focus on doing that. Nothing else, no cheeky-breeky "Ima get 1 hit in before he seathes again" no "ima de-agrro and try to take 1 HP orb stealthilly" Aggro. Stand in 1 spot. Reflect spam. This fight takes maybe 20 seconds.
Another easy fight. Just spam deflect on his flurry of claw attacks and do the occasional jump+kick when he does the leg sweep. He'll ruin his own posture in a minute of this.
Overall helpful tips: This game is very open and after Blazing Bull you can practically go anywhere you want. When you get the bell, go do Hirata Estates as far as you can, you'll get more prosthetic gears and the bosses aren't all that challenging. Breath of Life: Light is a SUPER good skill that gives you back a good chunk of life back upon a successful execution on bosses and plebs alike. Great sustain for running through a zone. Mikiri counter is a 1-point wonder, and Shinobi eyes to a lesser extent is also a very good investment. Once you get Ashina arts, Ichimonji sword strike is a nice skill to pick up because it deals good posture damage. After that Ascending/Descending Carp are amazing and Flowing Water is also very nice. Ashina Cross is an acquired taste for later. From Prostethics tree aim for Chasing Slice and Fang and Blade. Fang and Blade is SUPER useful for more posture damage with the axe. Nightjar slash can make some of the more agile bosses easy peasy giving you a soft stunlock upon repetition.
If you feel weak and would like to do some faring either for money or for XP to buy skills: 1) Hirata Estates Bamboo Slope waypoint. Kill the plebs just outside the gate (5 of them) then turn around and go up the slope until you meet fat boy. Super good money and XP/minute early on. 34XP for each pleb. 2)Mid game Ashina Castle Antechamber. You can stealth kill like 3 samurai almost immediately and fight 4 more. Then 3 Tengu nightjar ninjas if you feel cocky. Rinse and repeat. 79XP per samurai or monk. Do this or Mt. Sengu monks. 3)Late(r) game, Sunken Valley Gun Fort. Big plebs you stealth are 298 XP each, smaller plebs are 160XP. Not to mention all the gold.
Well, some of the skills are definitely cooler and a bigger deal than I expected lol. Good tips in the post above (haven't watched the videos), the Ashina skills are great. Wish I had picked a few of them up BEFORE the boss fight I was discussing in my last post. The magic of nonlinearity in these games; now I'll know better for next playthrough lol.
I'm up to the bull but haven't fought him yet. Compared to the end of the Hirata Estate, going back to the "main" progression has been a breeze so far.
Is there a "point" to ringing the bell, as far as progression or whatever, or is it basically just hard mode like the description implies?
Also are you supposed to fight the Headless just before the bell? Or do you need to come back later with a way to deal with the curse/slow effects
On March 27 2019 00:46 Duka08 wrote: Well, some of the skills are definitely cooler and a bigger deal than I expected lol. Good tips in the post above (haven't watched the videos), the Ashina skills are great. Wish I had picked a few of them up BEFORE the boss fight I was discussing in my last post. The magic of nonlinearity in these games; now I'll know better for next playthrough lol.
I'm up to the bull but haven't fought him yet. Compared to the end of the Hirata Estate, going back to the "main" progression has been a breeze so far.
Is there a "point" to ringing the bell, as far as progression or whatever, or is it basically just hard mode like the description implies?
Also are you supposed to fight the Headless just before the bell? Or do you need to come back later with a way to deal with the curse/slow effects
Divine Confetti seems to be the only effective way of fighting the headless. You don't probably get enough of it through normal play (given how many attempts bosses usually take) so I ended up farming some.
I've heard that ringing bell makes enemies drop more items, so good when you are farming stuff.
I am having a very good time with this game and I enjoy all smaller bosses with their own fighting styles. My main complaint is several of them require me to traverse areas with enemies, or work my way around the edge. It is the one hold over from the souls games that I could do without. The fights with the mini-bosses are so good, I don't want much of a delay between my attempts. I just want to get back to the high of getting close to the finishing blow and trying to figure out if this is the moment to throw ash in their face.
And seriously, fuck fighting anyone near a wall or whatever. Just lock the camera or something if there are no environmental hazards.
It's neither IMHO. You can find new skills (few skill trees to chose from) or acquire them with skill points, and they can make a big difference, but there's no simple leveling up stats like in Dark Souls to be more sturdy for example. You can boost your vitality/attack with rare items or temporarily with "candies", but no matter how many skill you get, if you can't use them and fight properly you'll get wrecked.
There are also different "prosthetic" tools available, each with bunch of upgrades that also change dramastically how each tool behaves. So upgrades/char development makes sense, is somewhat a necessity (unless you're crazy ;P) but it's not the DS style of "I will get 40 Vitality and hide behind tower shield and be unbreakable".
There are play styles and ways to build out your character, but there are no "builds" you are locked into. You equip moves for your sword and they all have uses. It is a more organic system that works off of understandable rules in the world. Big dudes are slow and easy to light on fire. People with spears and thrusting weapons fall prey to that bad ass counter. Small, fast characters that jump alot can be knocked out of sky with throwing stars. Be just because those rules exist doesn't mean other things are not useful. The ax that breaks shields is also super good at dealing posture damage. The firecrackers are just good. Lighting people on fire is cool. So it is about how you want to build out your ninja and what weapons you prefer.
But it is still a souls game(except you don't dodge. Seriously, just don't dodge. Just block everything if you are getting dumped on) where there is poison, fire and other status effects. It just doesn't have the stats you can raise.
I had the timing of the sword step counter down for a boss and then lost it last night. I expect to regain it again after work today, but there is nothing more frustrating than knowing you had it earlier and losing it for unknown reasons.
Jesus Christ, that Guardian Ape is really testing my patience. I've been fighting this guy for about two hours now and I never got him below 50% in his second phase...
On March 30 2019 22:59 JoeCool wrote: Jesus Christ, that Guardian Ape is really testing my patience. I've been fighting this guy for about two hours now and I never got him below 50% in his second phase...
I was dealing with him yesterday and yeah, what a pain in the a. Second phase the only thing I did that worked was wait for his "slow poke" and jump over the sword, get 1-2 hits, run the hell away. Normal swing combo, just block. If he jumps into air and does a horizontal slash, jump over, and deflect/riposte when he hits from his sword up high - if done well you'll stun him for few precious seconds. Just needs tons of patience.
Trickiest part of the game so far for me is really knowing if I'm on the right path or if I'm somewhere I don't need to be yet. Just dealing "low damage" to a boss or whatever doesn't necessarily tell you much because there've been fights that took forever that I comfortably handled and felt great and smooth, and others that just embarrass you and make me feel like I'm missing a useful skill or prosthetic tool/upgrade that would really tie the room together.
Though I'm sure it's also more than possible to do everything with no upgrades or skills or tools or items so get good etc etc
Honestly, there is no correct path to follow. Once you hit Ashina castle after blazing bull, its all open. Lone shadow and Ashina 7 spears all feel too technical for you? Go through the dungeon to mt. Sengo. Don't want to face Genichiro quite yet? Jump down to Ashina depths or go to Gun Fort. Sure, you can't get the story critical items before you beat Genichiro, but you can go to all the zones that have them, pick up a few prayer beads or memories, fight the bosses and farm mobs there. I initially made the comparison with Nioh too, but Sekiro is most definitely not like it. Its not souls either, its its own beast. Nioh was getting to Way of the Nioh and farming mobs for orange gear and then farming Void boss gauntlet fot proper sets like susanoo.
Sekiro has none of that. You upgrade your prosthetic to open up more options while fighting, they arent a must-have. Its horizontal progression, not vertical. You can parry spam and R1 your way to victory herr if you want. Also no crutch like living weapon to pop and burst down a boss.
On March 30 2019 22:59 JoeCool wrote: Jesus Christ, that Guardian Ape is really testing my patience. I've been fighting this guy for about two hours now and I never got him below 50% in his second phase...
He took me a long time, but I think it's because of how different both phases need to be played.
First phase is very heavy speed because he feels way more unpredictable ( fuck his jump into grab attack btw, sometimes you just can't run that one ), second can be played very slow
My advice if you are still on him, play the second phase extremely slow and dark soul style. Deflect every sword attack ( if you deflect the big upward swing, you get a stun and free damage ), jump the run into cleave, and the jump into low cleave, then do a bit of damage there.
But, everytime you do damage or avoid an attack, watch out for him moving the head arm for the scream and just run away early.
You don't actually need to find more damage opportunities than the one he gives you from the deflect stun and the time you avoid the cleave. You can do the second phase taking no damage beside a bit of scream if you run too slow.
On March 30 2019 22:59 JoeCool wrote: Jesus Christ, that Guardian Ape is really testing my patience. I've been fighting this guy for about two hours now and I never got him below 50% in his second phase...
For human bosses it is usually better to aim to fill their posture bar and do a fatal attack once you break them. For animals attack their hp pool directly. I saved up all my spirit tokens for phase 2, and lit the bastard on fire in between slashing. With oil on him btw. Also Ashina cross chunks him quite nicely, but it costs spirit tokens too unfortunately. I feel like all the weapon arts should be free of charge, even the most powerful ones. Would make for a nice crutch for weaker players and also reward you for investing so many skill points to get them in the first place...
For monkeys 2nd phase the gourd that reduces terror build-up is also very useful. You get it in Ashina Dephts, Mibu village waypoint vendor
You can use the loaded spear on his neck when he falls down to “pull” it into a state where you can do extra damage. Only works in the second phase obviously.
Edit: Also, apparently the second stage is weak against the mortal blade too.
I bet that iron umbrella makes is real easy to deflect that overhead attack from second form too. Then to do a crap ton of posture damage by yanking at the worm. I'll have to see if that is the case.
Really? Divine Confetti works on Ape's 2nd phase? So weird... I thought it worked on incorporeal enemies only like headless, shchinen warriors and Water lady...
On April 02 2019 02:41 Latham wrote: Really? Divine Confetti works on Ape's 2nd phase? So weird... I thought it worked on incorporeal enemies only like headless, shchinen warriors and Water lady...
Its undead, like them. Literally headless. My plan is to dump on him with Divine Confetti and then pull out that grub in the neck for big posture damage.
Also, enemies like headless and shchinen warriors take small amounts of damage from some prosthetic tools. Just not enough to make it worth it.
39 minutes any% with skipping 1-2 bosses, but still these people are insane. In 40 minutes I probably wasn't even at the chained ogre yet...
btw, watch some of these speedrunners do bosses. Yes they DO get hit, but how they dismantle some of the more technical bosses like Genichiro or Isshin or Emma is unreal. So crisp, so perfect. The deflects are perfect, the ichimonjis are on point and I generally feel like a baboon flailing around with controller watching them do this.
Had some streams on in the background this week since I won't have time to play and beat it myself anytime soon, I saw the end of the game: + Show Spoiler +
On April 04 2019 06:06 Warri wrote: How playable is this game with kb/mouse? I tried dark souls 3 but absolutely could not stand the controls.
While I'm playing with a DS4, according to several people its even better with kb/mouse since it helps you avoid the camera issues (which are overstated imo) and most of the combat its either left or right click.
Why does any new release of a difficult game spawn a bunch of untalented SJW bloggers white-knighting about not having an easy mode?
It's like going to a museum, looking at an abstract painting and demanding it be simplified to understand for those who don't understand art. Guess shitting on something a niche of players like is really lucrative these days.
On April 04 2019 18:20 byte-Curious wrote: Why does any new release of a difficult game spawn a bunch of untalented SJW bloggers white-knighting about not having an easy mode?
It's like going to a museum, looking at an abstract painting and demanding it be simplified to understand for those who don't understand art. Guess shitting on something a niche of players like is really lucrative these days.
Uhm... Change your media diet? I watched plenry of Sekiro reviews, gameplay and stuff in general, nothing like this ever came up.
The discussion around difficulty is ever present. I enjoy difficult games like Sekiro, but I am the only real life person I know that does. To find peers that enjoy that game I need to go online to discuss it and that is sort of a bummer. It kinda sucks because I’m pouring hours into this game and can’t talk about it at lunch break or with people who play other games. The discussion is always about how the game is really hard, they will never play it and it quickly seems like I am bragging about how good I am at video games. Which is dumb because From games are things that you just rub your face up against until you beat them. On top of that, there are folks have real disabilities that can never enjoy the games or would have to work 5 times as hard just to do so. And some do, which is fun to champion. Most do not.
The other problem is that companies like From decided to make difficulty part of their marketing back in Dark Souls one and it sort of poisoned the well. Hard games have existed forever, but so have cheats and other things to allow people to get through them. But because From used the difficult to set the game apart and position overcoming the challenge as inherently, and critically meritorious, it created this resistance to anything that would make those games more accessible for anyone. And that mythology about Dark Souls being so hard(Dark Souls is not hard, it is obtuse and often bullshit) drives people away who might find those games to be totally acceptable.
To put it another way, I was describing the fight with the guardian ape to a buddy and he said it sounded awesome. And then I told him about figuring out the spear trick and he asked why the game didn’t just explain the spear could do that. And the answer is “Because From games are kinda bullshit and don’t explain stuff, even if you die 50 times on a boss. Instead we go on youtube and look up a guide if that happens.”
To be fair, Dark Souls had that messaging/coop function in game exactly for this reason.
Also: Dark Souls 1+3 are really not that obstruse (I didn't play 2)? Looking at DS1. Sure, it got a few bullshit traps, curse status, the stupid crystal cave, bed of chaos anda few places could probably do with a bonfire more but else? I don't see where it is that bad? Especially because the worst parts come late in the game at points where "bad" gamer won't reach anyway? From the top of my head i don't remember a single boss that requires some weird gimmick for you to kill it? Or what do you mean with obtuse and bullshit?
I didn't get Sekiro yet, the parry gameplay is really putting me off, i never bother to parry in DS1/3...
I think we all forget that the opening of Dark Souls is you getting thrown in prison, fighting a weird demon, getting kidnapped by a crow and meeting a sad man that tells you to ring two bells someplace in the world, but doesn’t tell you why. And I haven’t even gotten into building a character and how easy it is to waste soul levels. Or how weapons scale and don’t tell how they will scale going forward in the game. That game is super obtuse if you just real on what the game tells you at the time you play it.
Sekiro's parrying is both easy to do and fun. You can block all damage and learn a boss's tells, then dig into deflecting. It is a really cool system once you get over your instinct to dodge.
Yeah I really fell in love with the combat in this game. The way the swordfights work is just beautiful. You hit 1-3 times the enemy guards, then he hits you and you deflect. Add some perilous attacks to spice things up to keep you entertained and the cool counters to make you feel badass.
Anyone else thinks THIS is exactly how lightsaber fights should be done in Star Wars games? The fun part is you don't need any combat arts or prosthetic gear to win a fight. Yes they make a fight easier or even trivialize them, but you can pretty much deflect anything: bull horns, fist slams, spears thrusts, kicks, claws, gun shots and arrows, etc. with the right timing. The game also rewards you for actually hitting the reflects correctly, not just blocking or spamming the deflect button. The weapons go *ting* like a small bell indicating you were spot on with your reflect.
It's really beautiful and elegant in its simplicity.
Ok, fair point. The scaling is actually shown but with no explanation of how it actually works , the Magic system is, especially for classes that don't start with a spells, really weird to figure out. Its very easy to waste soul Levels, but its pretty hard to skill yourself so bad that your character is real garbage if your not actively trying to... Most weapons have requirements that guide you, that plus a few points in Vitaility and Stamina pretty much makes your build fine?
That the story is obstruse and that you are kinda lost after you come to firelink is kinda the name of the game? I mean, thats a big part of its charm?
DS1 (well, all of them) have big flaws when it comes to explaining the mechanics, but being lost in the world and having no real clue what your doing is not a flaw.
Don't get me wrong, I love Dark Souls, its obtuse story telling and subversive narrative. We meet someone called a fire keeper, locked in a cage, who tells us it is her job to assist people like us to link the fire. Her name is "fire keeper". How do you keep a fire beyond adding fuel to it? Yet we continue like it is some hero's journey to become legend. In DS3, we wake up after not one, but four lords who previously linked the fire are unwilling to do it and are told to go kill them all and bring them back to complete their duty and continue the age of flame. Everyone talks about the pain of being undead and the fire keeper is "bound to the flame" where we find a god damn tower filled with the bodies of former fire keepers. There are a lot of way to see our characters in Dark Souls as the villain that is allowed an abusive cycle of violence to continue because of a fear of change.
Especially in DS3, when the "good" ending is require facing the unknown and empowering the most subservient character to do what they have always wanted. Or helping build a world where people can escape the cycle and obtain some agency, even if that agency is simply rotting away in peace, without pain. That is so my bullshit I can't even.
But the problem with Dark Souls is that being lost doesn't have a clear path to finding your way. The game wants you to get lost, but doesn't think about how to get a player back on track of they hit a email "fail state" where they really can't crack what to do next. And the solution to that is "look up what to do on the internet." I would love From to get over that specific part of their games and find creative ways to get players back on track. They have no shortage of creativity and I think their next big challenge should be finding ways to keep the discovery and joy intact, but also add in options to get a player back on the path to see the whole game.
And on that note, as people who enjoy these games, it is more productive to discuss how to direct players to the way we solved those problems in these games. In Sekiro, I had a real struggle with Genichiro for like 5 days. After two days, I did what I normally do and look up if there is anything else I could be doing. I found that there were a bunch of healing upgrades I could easily get and found that an attack he was doing stunned me for to long to do a specific counter to his follow up.
Sekiro would be a better game if it reminded players that were getting their ass beat by a boss to explore and find some upgrades. Especially if the system was built to only provide that feedback if there were really upgrades to find. And this doesn't need to be a popup. It could be a weird dream sequence or resurrecting in a weird place where there is some sweet dog/bird/thing to provide obtuse direction to the player. From is beyond creative enough to build systems that help people through the game without removing the core of the experience.
But the problem with Dark Souls is that being lost doesn't have a clear path to finding your way.
That's like half of the charm of DS1.
I'm with you on providing better explanations for what stats do and how scaling and covenants work, especially when it comes to the Pyromancy Flame. Mechanics like that should be explained.
In terms of story telling and world building, though, the more obfuscation the better.
There's never been a better moment in a single player game for than suddenly arriving back at Firelink Shrine after ringing the second bell. The descent into hell, the laborious ascent afterwards, and the final elation once one realises one is back 'home' simply has no parallels for me. Had I not been stuck, lost, terrified and grossed out most of the way, I don't think it would have felt nearly as good.
Nah, the best moment was me watching a random streamer playing his first Dark Souls doing what many do, going towards the Graveyard, this guy was just really stubborn. He died and died and died but was just not giving up, after several hours he killed Pinwheel... Then running around wildly until finally someone told him, that he is at the wrong place and needs to climb back up. Several hours later he actually made it back to Firelink :D.
But the problem with Dark Souls is that being lost doesn't have a clear path to finding your way.
That's like half of the charm of DS1.
I'm with you on providing better explanations for what stats do and how scaling and covenants work, especially when it comes to the Pyromancy Flame. Mechanics like that should be explained.
In terms of story telling and world building, though, the more obfuscation the better.
There's never been a better moment in a single player game for than suddenly arriving back at Firelink Shrine after ringing the second bell. The descent into hell, the laborious ascent afterwards, and the final elation once one realises one is back 'home' simply has no parallels for me. Had I not been stuck, lost, terrified and grossed out most of the way, I don't think it would have felt nearly as good.
Yes it is and I’m not saying it should go away. But as I detailed in my post, there is a point when that becomes a roadblock for players. And From should look into that and see if there are ways to help players if they hit those road blocks. I’m not saying add a waypoint system. I'm saying add something to nudge players to finding those charming moments.
In Sekiro, for example, if I died 20 times trying to fight a boss and I respawned at a shrine in an area where there is a gourd seed(heal upgrade) I had not gotten yet, I would go looking for that upgrade I had not gotten. They could telegraph that early on in the game saying sometimes you receive aid in strange ways, like waking up in a new place with something that could help you.
So you want Itemtrackers? Because thats what you are arguing for. The Souls games all teached you that searching for stuff is rewarding. I don't see how you think this isn't the case. From what i've seen Sekiro is also doing this a plenty.
On April 05 2019 23:55 Velr wrote: So you want Itemtrackers? Because thats what you are arguing for. The Souls games all teached you that searching for stuff is rewarding. I don't see how you think this isn't the case. From what i've seen Sekiro is also doing this a plenty.
Not at all. I floated the idea the game to suggest exploring an area by respawning there after I eat shit for the 20th time on a boss. Wordless suggesting “There is something down this path that will make that fight easier”. From games already do a bunch of subtle things to teach people how to play their games, I’m just suggesting one more.
The fact that bosses are hard is what makes this game good. Just beat Genichiro so it's still early days for me, apparently he's nothing compared to later bosses. So maybe next week I'm here complaining, we'll see. For now though I love the game.
I do love the bosses. Genichiro really tripped me up. But I finally beat him in the best way possible, but redirecting this lightening attack and then nearly losing because I was so pumped I finally pulled off that move.
But I can see how newer people get tripped up on them and don’t realize they can just go do something else in the game and come back to the boss later on.
(Written on mobile so pardon for any missing or mispelled words or overall disjointedness.)
Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, and especially Sekiro are not just about being hard games. They are about overcoming obstacles. if you simply make the games easier, the whole foundation the games are built on would crumble and they would stop being good games for their intended audience. It's like telling a pizza place that doesn't make the most popular pizza and doesn't serve a single beer from a macro brewery and doesn't play any of the current popular music to change what they're doing for their loyal customers so they appeal to everyone else, when everyone else already has Pizza Hut and Little Ceasar's and Domino's and- well, I think you get the idea. If it's "too hard" for you to beat or become invested in or play at length without becoming frustrated at the game, it might just be that it isn't for you, that it wasn't made for you. (Then there's the group of people hating on the game because it does X, Y, or Z differently from Dark Souls/Bloodborne or [insert other game here] which was also a problem with Dark Souls players when Bloodborne came out, but I think they eventually got over it?)
As far as making it more accessible for people with disabilities, that's entirely separate from the games' supposed difficulty (Very Hard) and, in my opinion, saying "add in easy mode for people with disabilities, at least" is doing a disservice to all gamers with disabilities who want to overcome the same challenges in games and feel the same, deep sense of accomplishment in these games the same way everyone else does. If you "add in an easy mode" in Sekiro for them, they aren't going to get the full experience, and it becomes a wasted effort to try to find a sad, water-logged middle ground that would likely not even make the people crying out about that aspect of the game less upset at it for being what it is. Instead of adding an easy mode or trying to reach that impossible middle ground, players and game developers and hardware developers need to work together to find different solutions, things that will keep the game what it was intended to be and help more people dive deeper into the game.
Tutorials and hints and training modes are things that some voices demand to have in the game, but Sekiro does have the standard pop-up fare as well as Eavesdropping and a practice dummy training NPC that, while they could be better, work pretty well if you pay attention and put some effort into the game (especially for training with Hanbei) while staying true to From's niche style of game. That is to say, Sekiro gives only the barest of information required to start asking questions and exploring not only the 3D game world but also the game mechanics, and, arguably, Sekiro gives more information at times than other From titles (this tool is useful against this type of enemy, follow this very explicit trail to get to the next part of the game, get this item that tells you where useful hidden items are). The way that Sekiro assists the player, I think, is done very well, obviously there are still a lot of ways they can improve on each piece of assistance. Refinement is the only thing that needs done as far as hints, tutorials, etc. goes imo.
TLDR: Don't make an easy mode, stop asking for easy modes, keep making challening games that test players' patience and persistence. Find other ways to make the game more accessible without making it less challenging.
*P.S. See also: Modern gamers' takes on making StarCraft: Brood War multiplayereasier vs more accessible.
it's more like people haven't getting used to the new mechanic but once they do, as a memeyaki fan i think sekiro is the easiest soul/borne games fromsoftware's offered so far
As a counter point to the overcoming obstacles argument: if the player leaves the game or is physically incapable overcoming the challenge, the art has failed to achieve its goal of making them feel like a rad ninja mastering forbidden ninja moves.
From games have always had ways to reduce difficulty. It’s called summoning or grinding. They had the messages. Sekiro removes some of that and I think there is some room systems to mitigate the challenge.
On April 07 2019 00:12 Plansix wrote: As a counter point to the overcoming obstacles argument: if the player leaves the game or is physically incapable overcoming the challenge, the art has failed to achieve its goal of making them feel like a rad ninja mastering forbidden ninja moves.
Well the nature of challenge is that not everyone is able to do it. Does a book fail at being art if not everyone gets the story? I think you're setting an impossible goal here.
Moreover what is this about disabilities? It is impossible to tailor everything to the needs of everyone. If there was a requirement that disabled people (what disabilities are we even talking about?) are able to play every game, there are complete genres of games that couldn't even exist.
It actually isn’t impossible to tailor challenge to everyone’s needs. On a recent podecast I listen to on the subject, a fan of driving games found the entire discourse around From games to be perplexing because challenging driving games have 20 or so different sliders to adjust the gameplay. And there is no narrative about this topic at all, despite some games being quite hard at the default settings.
And difficulty sliders are literally built into Sekiro. There is a bell that makes the game harder. New game + exists. The methods and systems provide more paths to experiencing these games exist within the game itself.
Frankly, we do From games a disservice by claiming they are all about the difficulty. There is an entire YouTube channel with millions upon millions of views digging into the lore, art and themes of these games. There are lots of people who play these games for things other than the challenge. Sekiros a fascinating narrative of use of extra natural weapons to empower war to control territory leading to a rotting sickness.
The game doesn’t have to have an “easy mode”. But the discussion of these games needs to move beyond the precious “this is my hard video game” narrative. Because honestly, there are harder games out there that do not sell themselves as a “hard video game.”
As has been said before, the challenge is what makes dark souls so engaging. You can't tell a story through the environment if players never stop to actually look at it, and blaze through the game. The difficulty forces you to slow down and look at things more carefully.
The difficulty of dark souls is also a narrative element. In dark souls, there is kind of a meta-narrative about the plot being about the player not giving up, and seeing it through to the end, to become the one to link the fire. There is no way to fail your quest except by quitting the game. There is also plenty that suggests there are many other 'chosen ones' hinting at all the other players of the game.
Anyways, regardless of all that, dark souls isn't even that difficult of a game. As you mentioned, it's obtuse. It doesn't tell you how its mechanics work, it barely gives you any hints except through semi cryptic dialogue, and it never reaches out its hand to the player and says "here, let me help you". But that isn't really difficulty. You can make dark souls exceptionally easy by just getting the right weapons, buffs, armor and stats (or just by using magic which is really OP in all the games). For all the hard stuff there is in DS, there is plenty of things you can do to counter-act the challenge and completely trivialize it. The first time I played through it, I got smashed by the bell tower gargoyles over and over again. Why? Because I hadn't upgraded my weapon. If you run in there with a +5 lightning buffed longsword and a stable shield, the fight is over pretty quickly, even if you really suck at the combat.
Except for the kinda cheesy 'prepare to die edition' marketing, DS doesnt even really tout its difficulty. At least Miyazaki doesnt. He has repeatedly said the purpose of these games is not to be difficult, but that the difficulty is just a means to an end.
"I have no intention to make the game more difficult than other titles on purpose! It's just something required to make this style of game. Ever since Demon's Souls, I've really been pursuing making games that give players a sense of accomplishment by overcoming tremendous odds. We've added new items and weapons over the course of the series, and having a certain level of difficulty adds value to those because they incentivise players to experiment more with character builds and weapon load-outs."
""I personally want my games to be described as satisfying rather than difficult," Miyazaki said. "However, I suppose gamers do not particularly prefer easy games. What they want is interesting and worthwhile games to play, so I think it is natural that hindrance or stress that does not attribute to such interesting and worthwhile elements will be removed in the end.""
I don't really understand how you arrive that the idea that there is a "'this is my hard video game' narrative". These games aren't all about the difficulty: the difficulty is a means to an end, and is easily counteracted by knowledge of the mechanics and items.
The game was difficult, as in unforgiving and tedious, whilst leveling. Anything that would reduce the time to grind, or make you better able to survive sticky situations, or made you a bigger asset to a group, was therefore much appreciated.
So, the game nudged you (not quite forced you, alas) to get better gear, so leveling would be easier. That made you team up with other players, for the best loot was reserved to group quests and mostly to dungeons.
In an of itself, the tedious grind wasn't good game design, but it made for a great, tight-knight community.
The same is true in a way for Dark Souls. Is it brilliant game design to get cursed and lose half of your max HP until you figure out how to lift the curse? No really, but it contributes greatly to make the world seem more hostile, threatening, and reinforces the point that there is a challenge to be overcome.
An easy Dark Souls would honestly just be a shittier Devil May Cry, or whatever action game.
I find this whole call for easy modes pathetic, really.
You wouldn't try and force an author to simplify her language so more people can understand her work. You wouldn't write self-righteous blogs about how, while you don't need it, there should be a simplified version of the Mona Lisa for those who lack the 'art appreciation skills' to understand the original.
Yet if a game studio doesn't cater to everyone, they're evil incarnate and basically basement dwellers.
But yeah, perhaps we shouldn't get upset about talentless grievance studies majors doing the only thing they can: bitch, moan and virtue signal.
Except From isn't making tiny, tedious games for a tight knit community any more. They are making main stream games that sell millions more units than Demon Souls did. And that leads more people providing feedback on the game's design, which the creators can take or leave as they will. If you are going to make arguments for keeping the game hard, you do argument a disservice by insulting the people who don't agree with you. It just makes you seem like petulant gate keeper.
And the art analogy is really off base. Appreciating the Mona Lisa to the fullest extent requires hours upon hours of research into art and the history of the painting. Easy mode isn't making the work simplistic, it is viewing the painting with a tour guide explaining the painting.
Uhm, these games have become that big due to how they are. Your arguing for them to change their winning formula so they can go even more mainstream (if that is possible). That makes absolutely no sense to me. Constant, repeated failure or at least real danger is part of the core gamedesign, by lowering the difficulty you take that away. You alter the core of the game.
Btw: If i'm not mistaken there exist literature classics in dumbed down versions so more people can read them?
I mostly play my games on hard (not hardest, just hard), but often I immediatly realise if the game was made for that difficulty. I really would love for all games to recommend the "intended" difficulty. In many games the difficulty settings plain suck, just adding HP to enemies and weakening you, that throws off any kind of balance and alters the experience. Theoretically this shouldn't need to be the case, but designed seperate AI/Behaviours for every difficulty setting is a bit much?
Yeah, they are called movies and BBC mini-series. Or audio books. 2009's Emma mini series is very good and captures a lot of the themes of Austin's works.
But I digress. The problem with this discussion is that it is binary and lacks nuance. No one is talking about adding a mode that makes the bosses beatable on the first try. That would go against the vision of the game. Even the discussion around an "easy mode" isn't really about making the game "easier" per say, but getting more players over the hump where they get the flow of the combat and see the light at the end of the tunnel with bosses. Maybe it is a dream sequence that lets you practice against a bosses specific move set endlessly, but only triggers once you have eaten shit against a boss a set number of times.
Accessibility and approachability are two separate things, but come to the same goal of allowing more people feel like a rad bad ass ninja. And that requires failure and struggle. But difficulty and struggle are subjective, differing between people. What form that takes could be any number of things. But one step in that is dispelling the myth that these games only for hardcore gamers who love punishing games. Because they aren’t. Learning to play a musical instrument well requires more effort and challenge than getting through a run of Dark Souls. They are just demanding games.
I genuinely feel the only reason there's been any discussion in the public about "Sekiro needs an easy mode" is because it doesn't have the word Souls in the title.
Like a few people have said, the now-infamous difficulty of the series has become its charm to a broader audience. The depth and artistry of the world or whatever is only revealed after you give it the time and patience it deserves. Sekiro isn't much different, but mysteriously I don't remember explosions of complaints about "choose your difficulty" when DkS2+3 came out lol.
Maybe the aesthetic appeals to a slightly different audience that isn't familiar with the other From titles. Maybe the difference in progression means those having issues can't just farm their character levels up or whatever to brute force it.
Edit:
Maybe it is a dream sequence that lets you practice against a bosses specific move set endlessly, but only triggers once you have eaten shit against a boss a set number of times.
This is an interesting idea. I find myself dicking around in the Void in DMC5, which is basically that game's version of a training room (or like a fighting game training mode, invincible player/enemies, etc.)
Edit2: Oh yeah, summoning lol, good call. Probably another huge factor.
The loss of the ability to summon other players to help was a bit hit to fans of From's work that maybe were less than enamored with the game play. I'm currently on the Beast of Hatred and I'm missing having a buddy along for the fight right now(mostly because that boss isn't great).
There were discussions about difficulty when it came to Dark Souls 3, but I think they were mitigated a bit by the series being true to that vision. And you could grind souls, as you said. The tricks of Dark Souls were known, so people knew what to expect and how win if they wanted. Fall rolling never ceased to be an option. But the discourse around lowing the barriers for people to get into From's games really started in Dark Souls 3.
Edit: On the topic of Sekiro, I'm at the point where there isn't much exploring to do and I have about three bosses left. And I have to say that From might have gone a bit to far with the Demon of Hatred. It isn't that I don't think the boss is interesting. Its that I think the camera is trash, he is to big and his basic attacks cause way to much fire damage. And damage in general. I'm all for a fun, big boss fight in my ninja game, but one deathblow please and thank you.
I would say it is one of From’s best works and has some of their best encounter design to date. And removing the RPG systems really allowed them to make the encounters razor focused. If you like demanding action games that require repetition to master, this game is your shit. If you love messing around with a lot of weird builds, this game won’t give you that. Though there are ways to “building out” your version of the ninja as the game opens up.
Sekiro is super fun and I'm enjoying it a lot. I'm almost done with the game (I think I'm at the same spot as Plansix).
The endboss of Hirata Estate was insanely difficult. Insanely. I have a feeling most of the "easy mode" complaints originate from just this one fight. I think that boss took me a solid 3-4 hours' worth of attempts to beat. I've been watching some streamers play the game as well and it's been so amusing to me watching Day9, Vinesauce, CohhCarnage, and Aris go from struggling to trivializing almost every fight. Sekiro's combat is so very different from Dark Souls that it requires massive, massive adjustment.
It was actually insulting to me seeing these streamers go so aggro on bosses that I spent hours on and succeeding. I'm coming from years of Souls games, and I'm used to enemies that have long, telegraphed attack wind-ups that you then dodge and punish. The reason you can't just whack away at bosses in Dark Souls is because generally they have enough Poise to withstand the few hits you'd land before their attack finishes and counterhits you for 90% of your health. In Sekiro, the enemy will block and take some Posture damage until they eventually deflect and counterattack. I was approaching combat from the Dark Souls school where you discover the enemy's movelist, then adapt your positioning, avoid it, and get some hits in. That's just not a very effective strategy against most of the bosses in Sekiro (there are a few Souls-style bosses though).
What really made the game click for me was the discovery of two major things: 1. Deflects are not parries. Deflects are not parries. Deflects are not parries. The Deflect window is considerably more forgiving, the payoff is nowhere near as huge (sometimes you'll get one free strike, sometimes you'll just inflict some Posture damage), and you can Deflect while blocking meaning you're not making a committed decision (unlike in Dark Souls). In Dark Souls, you had to NOT block for a minimum amount of time before you were allowed to parry, so it was high-risk, high-reward. In Sekiro, if an enemy unleashes a 7-hit flurry on you and you're blocking, go ahead and try to time those Deflects while you're blocking. If you miss, no big deal, you still didn't take any damage (other than perhaps the higher relative Posture damage you take from blocking instead of Deflecting). 2. Combat generally rewards aggression. Streamers were going aggro on enemies because enemies don't have good counterplay against it. It works, and that's part of the design. You're not balancing Stamina against options in this game. You can go in for a few strikes, inflict some Posture damage, and go right back to blocking point-blank and be completely safe, where the only things that can hurt you will come with "danger" notifications over your head. When I was fighting the Hirata Estate endboss, I just assumed I had to get that enemy health bar to zero because Posture regenerates so quickly. Imagine my surprise when Aris won with ease by just mashing attacks and blocking in the boss's face, breaking the boss's Posture with plenty of the boss's health still remaining. You're supposed to get in there and mess them up.
Dark Souls conditions you to be afraid to push buttons. Your weapons are generally slow, and they're a commitment. Sekiro wants to guide you away from that, and FromSoft makes some difficulty concessions relative to that adjustment, such as the 100% physical damage mitigation while blocking and being able to deflect while blocking. It's a similar game in some ways, but so very different in others. If you fail to adjust and try to play it like a Souls game, you'll become increasingly frustrated like I did. Once the flow of Sekiro combat clicks, you get that same feeling of relief as mastering Dark Souls combat: you're no longer fighting the controls, your character is no longer this clunky jerk who doesn't listen.
The "easy mode" arguments kind of miss the mark for me because nobody can agree on the means. It almost sounds like a "tax the rich" argument (everyone agrees rich people should pay their "fair share", but nobody can agree on a firm number, which is why the argument intentionally remains nebulous). What does an "easy mode" look like? At least Plansix paints a picture that sounds pretty reasonable. I'm sure some people would argue that there should be a faceroll "see the story" difficulty, or reduce enemy movesets, or remove enemies. It means different things to different people. Saying that there should be an "easy mode" is an effective rallying cry that I think most people could get behind in theory, but I think you'd have a harder time convincing people when proposing specific examples because those examples will either go too far or not far enough depending on the reader. To some extent that lack of detail may even be intentional, but that may be presumptive of me.
All this to say I'm getting the same level of satisfaction that I got from learning Dark Souls the first time. The game gets easier the more I understand the intentions of the system. I can buy upgrades, but I don't feel forced to do so. I like the twist that to get stronger, you have to beat more bosses (as opposed to just grinding souls). You can still grind a little bit to get access to more moves or more passives (like deathblow healing or enhanced healing from items), but your health and damage can only be increased by killing bosses and minibosses. Very cool, very fun game.
The difficulty spike for the last three bosses is not my favorite thing. I do feel it is a flaw in the souls/Sekiro design. Without more places to explore and options for things to do, all I’m left with is rubbing my face against these bosses until I beat them.
And the demon of hatred just sucks. The entire boss design is about running fast and rarely deflecting. It would be fine, but the thing takes three death blows. I’ll beat it, but I’m not enjoying the process.
First the devs are free to design the game as they want. However, if the dev chooses to make a game with the specific intent of having you struggle through it, learning its nuances before finally overcoming said struggles, as in make the game hard but fair, then adding an easy mode is not the right way to do it.
The correct approach is to design the game such that it has a very customization control scheme which could allow even people with disabilities to play.
Also, since the devs are free to design the game as they see fit, that design doesn't necessarily need to, nor should it appeal to everyone, in fact I feel doing so makes a game objectively worse as it lacks vision and identity.
Lastly, if you approach a game such as Dark Souls, Bloodborne or Sekiro, knowing full well its a hard game about overcoming obstacles, and then complain for an easy mode, well that's entirely your fault as a player and a sign the game is maybe not for you.
Players should be more responsible with their purchases and not expect everyone to cater to them.
Now regarding the game's design.
I was indeed sad at the lack of RPG elements and customization, but I still applaud From Software for going this route as they have proven again they aren't afraid to experiment and wanted to deliver an experience as sharp as possible.
I also felt this new combat, while a large departure from Souls, was a refreshing take on the formula and it gelled incredibly well with the ninja duelist fantasy they were going for, and I loved it.
I hope they continue using these lessons to make even better and more challenging games in the future and if possible incorporate some of these lessons into a new Dark Souls or Bloodborne game without having to remove the RPG.
Picked up the game on Sunday and it's been a blast. Most definitely on its way to becoming one of my favourite games! The combat system reminds me so much of God of War, even the sounds of constant slash&parry and pacing of combat as flurry of ferocious blows and then maybe a moment of tranquillity while both combatants restore their posture and assess the situation. It most definitely is not a souls game but there is enough familiarity in the systems that I feel like it is a new take on the topic, feels fresh and interesting while retaining some familiarity.
Just met blazing bull(?) at the end of my last go at it and defeated lady butterfly in the hirata estate. Feels like I was not supposed to fight her before making it further into the Ashina castle but alas she's been defeated. I'm left wondering if there is another way to advance now in the memory or was that it.
Just keep going. That memory is done for now. And I beat her before going to the castle too. You will be happy for the attack damage when you have to deal with the next boss, because he can be a real mother fucker.
I'm literally at the end of the game and have only 3 bosses left to defeat: + Show Spoiler +
SuperSayajin Isshin, Demon of Hatred, Father Owl
and am thinking if I should do all the endings... I'll probably do the "bad" or "evil" ending second, on NG+ but not sure if I want the other 2... I'm up to 20 VIT and 11 Power
I'm dreading the following 3 bosses, but I also want to complete the game having experienced them. This game kinda makes me want to get 100% achievements on steam, which is very rare there have been only a select few games that made me want to do that like Witcher 3 and Salt&Santuary, which should speak volumes about this game's fun factor, enjoyability and replayability.
Hmm, I just read you can backup saves and get the 3 endings in one go and then just go for evil in NG+, I think I'll do just that because replaying the whole game just to get slightly modified cutscenes is not something I'd consider very engaging.
Just finished the game. I missed two bosses due to missing some obscure NPC interactions, but still an incredible game and great experience. I spent way more time on the last boss than I wanted to. Many times I had this rush of confidence when the last boss was almost dead, only to die myself due to losing my nerve. That's a common thread in a lot of Souls games for me actually: my brain goes "is it finally going to happen?? am I doing it??" and while I'm distracted by those thoughts I lose. The fight wasn't even particularly difficult per se, but the pressure of winning (and the fact that the fight is long) made it so.
I'm reaching the end. Beat the Ape yesterday and then Ape + mate. First fight took me quite long to master, 1 hour+. Second fight was a breeze. Similarly, fighting the Juzou the Drunkard copy was so easy, quick one-shot. Getting better at bosses feels so nice.
That raises a good point actually. I've heard Sekiro called "Bosses Die Twice" because it reuses some fights later in the game, which is considered lazy by some. I find it a benchmark of your growth as a player. I had the same exact thoughts as you when I re-fought those bosses: "how did this guy ever give me so much trouble?" I'd even go as far as to say those re-fights inspire a lot of players to immediately jump into NG+, because the skills developed after beating these enemies stick with you.
The drunkard gets used: 4 times Ashina 7 spears general: 2x standard Odachi General guy: ~3-4 times I think Chained Ogre: 2x as miniboss, 1x as a normal mob Purple Robe shinobi miniboss: ~4 times, if not 5 Snakeyes: 2x Bull: 2x Headless: 4/5x, depending on how you count. Shichimen: 3x Centipede: 2x Ashina Elite clown: 2x
It's actually disgusting how many times you fight the same shit now that I've written it all out and looked at it. Do you really feel a sense of pride and accomplishment doing them for the ~3rd time or so?
Disgusting isn’t really the word I would use. And I had no problem fighting the same boss a second or third time with a couple new twists due to location. Round 2 in a new environment is just as fun as round 1.
Got the Sekiro achievement after a shitty skill point grind. On NG+4 I one-shot everything except Genichiro and Ape pair. Crushing bosses you once struggled on is very satisfying One of the best single player games I played in a while!
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/B72fjuU.jpg)
, the Magic system is, especially for classes that don't start with a spells, really weird to figure out.
there have been only a select few games that made me want to do that like Witcher 3 and Salt&Santuary, which should speak volumes about this game's fun factor, enjoyability and replayability.
