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Hello all!
As you (probably don't) know, I'm Team Liquid's self-appointed HBS fanboy.
Who is HBS? They're a video game company founded and operated by Jordan Weisman, the handsome fellow who created the Shadowrun and Battletech IP's.
HBS has funded three Shadowrun games in the past three years, including a Director's Cut of the much beloved Dragonfall campaign. If you haven't played them, I highly recommend it; they're some of if not *the* best CRPGs I've ever experienced.
Today they announced the return of Battletech, also known in the video game community as Mechwarrior. The world of Battletech is one of political intrigue in the distant future, where mercenaries pilot battle mechs (surprise!) and jostle for power and prestige.
It originated as a tabletop game (which I've played and can confirm is great) and went through several incarnations as a PnP roleplaying game, an arcade-style multiplayer game, and the tactical combat games such as Mechcommander and Mechwarrior. You may also recognize the IP by Microsoft's bastard-lineage called Mech Assault.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ln7o8lW.jpg)
See how cool that picture is? Isn't it FUCKIN SWEET?
What, you need more convincing?
Remember the Double Fine fiasco? Have you ever been let down by a lackluster Kickstarter?
HBS is a different animal. HBS *delivers.* What they promise, they give. What they advertise, they produce. And they do it in a timely fashion that often exceeds expectations. They've averaged about a game per year since they've been a studio, and have received much deserved love from critics and fans alike.
Plus mechs.
Here's the link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/webeharebrained/battletech
They've been up for less than a day and already funded three of their Stage 1 goals.
So, like, give them your disposable money.
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The Kickstarter has reached the 1,000,000 dollar mark in 24 hours and some change. For those of you who haven't checked it out, that means the game officially has a single player campaign, and Stage 2 goals will be unlocked shortly.
My guess is that one of those mini-goals will be the game editor, but we'll see.
From their twitter page:
Harebrained Schemes @WeBeHarebrained 10m10 minutes ago
WOAH. Just over $1M! We're all so excited (there was cheering). We're furiously working on a full KS update, so stay tuned!
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2.5M the dream, multiplay please :|
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I'm really excited about this.
I wasn't part of the kickstarter funding for the Shadowrun games but I bought them all and Dragonfall and Hong Kong were absolutely amazing.
Also I believe they already mentioned that a Shadowrun-type in game editor was not something they were looking to include in Battletech, but could be a possibility in (if there is) eventual sequels
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PvP with ladder or gtfo.
No, but seriously, mech series deserves love and I hope they do well. Looking forward to the game.
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Since they didn't have early bird tier I told KS to tell me when it is 48h until end and I will back it then :D
Turn based party game in the vein of new Xcom but with customizable giant Mechs and pilots with skills? YES PLEASE!
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
HBS at least delivers on their kickstarters so I'll consider backing this.
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unity. *groan*
I just hate that games use this T_T
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I love batthetech but I don't dig the choice to go turn-based at all, and honestly combat in Dragonfall was crappy enough for me to be rather pessimistic about the future of this game. MechCommander games were amazing as squad-RTS; I'd really much rather see a modern Mech Commander game than... this. 
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On October 01 2015 18:30 nanaoei wrote:
unity. *groan*
I just hate that games use this T_T
Unity 5 is supposed to be a good version.
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On October 01 2015 18:56 Salazarz wrote:I love batthetech but I don't dig the choice to go turn-based at all, and honestly combat in Dragonfall was crappy enough for me to be rather pessimistic about the future of this game. MechCommander games were amazing as squad-RTS; I'd really much rather see a modern Mech Commander game than... this.
I guess you also didn't like Xcom ?
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On October 01 2015 19:03 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2015 18:56 Salazarz wrote:I love batthetech but I don't dig the choice to go turn-based at all, and honestly combat in Dragonfall was crappy enough for me to be rather pessimistic about the future of this game. MechCommander games were amazing as squad-RTS; I'd really much rather see a modern Mech Commander game than... this. I guess you also didn't like Xcom ?
The new XCOM game was a big let-down in many ways, especially if compared to the original. Still a fun game (just like Dragonfall, overall, was a fun game), but it was far from what I would have liked it to be.
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On October 01 2015 19:37 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2015 19:03 -Archangel- wrote:On October 01 2015 18:56 Salazarz wrote:I love batthetech but I don't dig the choice to go turn-based at all, and honestly combat in Dragonfall was crappy enough for me to be rather pessimistic about the future of this game. MechCommander games were amazing as squad-RTS; I'd really much rather see a modern Mech Commander game than... this. I guess you also didn't like Xcom ? The new XCOM game was a big let-down in many ways, especially if compared to the original. Still a fun game (just like Dragonfall, overall, was a fun game), but it was far from what I would have liked it to be.
So you think new Xcom would work better as a real time game?
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well who played xcom apocalypse and who used the turn based style and who used the real time style ? :p
Most people like turn based in tactical games. Though Battletech could easily be made real time in a frozen synapse kind of style. Since the table top kinda works that way.
Maybe they actually do employ the Battle tech everything moves at the same time rule system. To bad its 3025 though I like 2750 the most haha. Catapult :<
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They said it will be like Xcom but without a cover system. Mechs in cover, that would look funny :D
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On October 01 2015 23:45 -Archangel- wrote:
They said it will be like Xcom but without a cover system. Mechs in cover, that would look funny :D
Original Battle Tech has partial cover in its rules.
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On October 02 2015 00:35 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2015 23:45 -Archangel- wrote:
They said it will be like Xcom but without a cover system. Mechs in cover, that would look funny :D Original Battle Tech has partial cover in its rules.
The creator of the rules is making this game, he said the game will not follow rules to the letter but by its spirit. 31 years ago there were no computer games like this.
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On October 01 2015 20:14 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2015 19:37 Salazarz wrote:On October 01 2015 19:03 -Archangel- wrote:On October 01 2015 18:56 Salazarz wrote:I love batthetech but I don't dig the choice to go turn-based at all, and honestly combat in Dragonfall was crappy enough for me to be rather pessimistic about the future of this game. MechCommander games were amazing as squad-RTS; I'd really much rather see a modern Mech Commander game than... this. I guess you also didn't like Xcom ? The new XCOM game was a big let-down in many ways, especially if compared to the original. Still a fun game (just like Dragonfall, overall, was a fun game), but it was far from what I would have liked it to be. So you think new Xcom would work better as a real time game?
Where are you getting that from? Xcom was built as a turn-based game from the start, and was very well thought-out and produced as such. This is why I had such a problem with the new Xcom game -- because they ditched a lot of great design decisions from the original game in favor of 'new' mechanics which simply don't work as well -- at least in my opinion. Like, having any type of 'cover' give a flat % modifier to whether you can be hit by a weapon or not is very dull, as is constantly seeing people literally shoot through walls etc, as is lack of different firing modes, removal of time units in favor of the 'two click' system and so on and so on.
Could Xcom work as a real time game? Definitely, but it would be a very, very different game. They tried slapping on a real-time mode in Xcom Apocalypse and it didn't work very well. There were also the afterlight / aftermath / aftershock games, and the real-time approach worked much better, because the game was actually built around being played in pausable real-time from the get-go -- so of course either can be fun, just needs the right approach.
Now back on topic, I am not saying that a BattleTech game won't be good because it's made turn-based instead of real-time. All I'm saying is it has a great predecessor in MechCommander 1/2, both of which were amazing games for their time and worked very well as squad-based RTS games. The logical thing to compare them against would be the DragonFall games (as those were made by the same developer), and in my opinion, combat mechanics of DragonFall are not nearly as interesting as those of MechCommander games, and wouldn't translate very well to a BattleTech game.
It remains to be seen whether they will make it work or not of course, I just can't justify preordering the game without having seen any real gameplay details as, in my opinion, the combat in DragonFall games wasn't interesting enough to make a 100% combat focused game using same or similar mechanics be worthy of a pre-order.
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not sure about turn based setup either, but I'm going to buy this anyway.
always had a soft spot for this universe/ setting.
Loved mechcommander 1 + 2, as long as i can get a Mad Cat i'll be a happy camper.
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Let's be real, actual combat mechanics in mechcommanders, especially 2, were boring as fuck. Each mech was basicly just a weapon turret that could move and there was little reason to field anything but the biggest turrets you could. In MC2, with sensors being far more limited in mechs, there was more call for having a scout mech in your drops, but later on even that could get replaced by an assault with sensors.
And in MC2, enemies tunnel visioned the first unit you showed to them, until it or they died. Doesn't matter if they could actually reach the thing they saw, they would try anyway.
Mech building in MC1 was horrible, as they did away with heat and used a load value instead, which literally just meant how much space a mech had for weapons. What this effectively did was make any ammo based weapon nearly obsolete from the get go, because the difference between an energy weapon and a ballistic weapon was that the first doesn't run out of ammo. In real mech simulation, heat is the equilizing factor between an ammoless and ammo based weapon systems. The only ammo based weapon that had a role in MC1 was LRMs, due to their ability to fire over obstacles to very long range.
MC2 brought in heat after a fashion and made the actual mech building a little more interesting, but the AI tunnel vision problem meant that what you actually put into mechs meant little in actual combat. It's hard to pretend you don't know how the AI works once you figure it out and not abuse it at any point in the game.
Now, I do love both games, still have my original discs right there on the shelf, but mechanics wise both games were quite disappointing.
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On October 01 2015 19:02 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2015 18:30 nanaoei wrote:
unity. *groan*
I just hate that games use this T_T Unity 5 is supposed to be a good version.
Why is (or was?) unity a bad engine? People seem to whine about this everywhere, but I never know why. When I look through the games using unity at their site and wikipedia the vast majority seem to be mobile games, but the few games released for real platforms seem to be decent games, or not so decent because of game design issues rather than engine issues. I haven't had any issues with the games from the list that I've played, like Endless Space, Endless Legend, Hearthstone and Shadowrun.
Are there examples of games which would've been better with some other engine?
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On October 02 2015 21:08 kuresuti wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2015 19:02 -Archangel- wrote:On October 01 2015 18:30 nanaoei wrote:
unity. *groan*
I just hate that games use this T_T Unity 5 is supposed to be a good version. Why is (or was?) unity a bad engine? People seem to whine about this everywhere, but I never know why. When I look through the games using unity at their site and wikipedia the vast majority seem to be mobile games, but the few games released for real platforms seem to be decent games, or not so decent because of game design issues rather than engine issues. I haven't had any issues with the games from the list that I've played, like Endless Space, Endless Legend, Hearthstone and Shadowrun. Are there examples of games which would've been better with some other engine?
The common problem was long loading times and bad performance for not a lot of graphical quality. Many people reported problems with overheating and such. Some games are just less demanding, maybe the engine works better for certain type of games.
But Unity 5 is supposed to be improved in many ways to combat some of the complaints that people had about v4.
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On October 02 2015 17:48 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2015 20:14 -Archangel- wrote:On October 01 2015 19:37 Salazarz wrote:On October 01 2015 19:03 -Archangel- wrote:On October 01 2015 18:56 Salazarz wrote:I love batthetech but I don't dig the choice to go turn-based at all, and honestly combat in Dragonfall was crappy enough for me to be rather pessimistic about the future of this game. MechCommander games were amazing as squad-RTS; I'd really much rather see a modern Mech Commander game than... this. I guess you also didn't like Xcom ? The new XCOM game was a big let-down in many ways, especially if compared to the original. Still a fun game (just like Dragonfall, overall, was a fun game), but it was far from what I would have liked it to be. So you think new Xcom would work better as a real time game? Where are you getting that from? Xcom was built as a turn-based game from the start, and was very well thought-out and produced as such. This is why I had such a problem with the new Xcom game -- because they ditched a lot of great design decisions from the original game in favor of 'new' mechanics which simply don't work as well -- at least in my opinion. Like, having any type of 'cover' give a flat % modifier to whether you can be hit by a weapon or not is very dull, as is constantly seeing people literally shoot through walls etc, as is lack of different firing modes, removal of time units in favor of the 'two click' system and so on and so on. Could Xcom work as a real time game? Definitely, but it would be a very, very different game. They tried slapping on a real-time mode in Xcom Apocalypse and it didn't work very well. There were also the afterlight / aftermath / aftershock games, and the real-time approach worked much better, because the game was actually built around being played in pausable real-time from the get-go -- so of course either can be fun, just needs the right approach. Now back on topic, I am not saying that a BattleTech game won't be good because it's made turn-based instead of real-time. All I'm saying is it has a great predecessor in MechCommander 1/2, both of which were amazing games for their time and worked very well as squad-based RTS games. The logical thing to compare them against would be the DragonFall games (as those were made by the same developer), and in my opinion, combat mechanics of DragonFall are not nearly as interesting as those of MechCommander games, and wouldn't translate very well to a BattleTech game. It remains to be seen whether they will make it work or not of course, I just can't justify preordering the game without having seen any real gameplay details as, in my opinion, the combat in DragonFall games wasn't interesting enough to make a 100% combat focused game using same or similar mechanics be worthy of a pre-order.
Well you complained about game being turn based and then when presented with a good example of a turn based game you bashed that as well so I assumed you think real time is superior. I wanted to get a confirmation on that.
But it turns out your original complaint has nothing to do with that and but with not trusting HBS to do turn based right which is a totally different thing.
I think SRR and later games were OK for what they were: RPGs with less focus on turn based combat. The base engine was built will not much money and also had to support modding and work on tablets. Then expansions gave us more of what was best with those games, varied and interesting missions and good story and characters. Combat was never the main focus of SRR games. Even with that Dragonfall and HK nicely expanded on combat and made it at least decent.
Battletech is being made with combat in mind, on a 3d engine using better tools and all the experience they gathered in last few years. Story and RPG elements are the addition here, where in SRR combat was the addition.
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Loved Mechwarrior online, sadly it has like the worst fucking devs of all time who just runs with te money. Also loved Mechcommander. Hope this does well.
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after what happened to mechwarrior tactics im very sceptical about this....
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Yeah, tactics didn't work. Turn based...these devs live in the past. After watching some of the kickstarter and how much they talk about themselves I'm very Skeptical.
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How is turn based living in the past, like that doesn't even make sense.
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As someone who grew up playing battle tech and all its dumb, dumb, dumb, rules, I am very excited. I want to be able to build an arm full of ammo, eject it and then use it as an explosive club. Yes, you could do this and it was bad ass.
And Battletech started as a turn based game. On on a table in 1984.
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On October 03 2015 04:09 tokinho wrote:
Yeah, tactics didn't work. Turn based...these devs live in the past. After watching some of the kickstarter and how much they talk about themselves I'm very Skeptical.
You are right. Over 3 million sales on PC for Xcom are so pathetic. And that damn Divinity Original Sin with over 900 000 sales in one year, so bad.
You are right. Nobody should be making turn based games...
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On October 03 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:
As someone who grew up playing battle tech and all its dumb, dumb, dumb, rules, I am very excited. I want to be able to build an arm full of ammo, eject it and then use it as an explosive club. Yes, you could do this and it was bad ass.
And Battletech started as a turn based game. On on a table in 1984.
Hey the rules were awesome :D
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On October 03 2015 03:39 Snotling wrote:
after what happened to mechwarrior tactics im very sceptical about this....
what happened with mechwarrior tactics was an atrocity, but you can be much more optimistic about this one:
1. No Free-To-Play model so the developers can concentrate on what's important.
2. Will run as an own application - not in a webbrowser.
3. The studio already kickstarted and developed multiple games in the genre, which were received very well.
4. The inventor of the original Battletech boardgame from 1984 works for them. They also have the main designer from MechCommander.
4. Those subhuman beings from IGP are no longer involved.
On October 03 2015 04:09 tokinho wrote:
Yeah, tactics didn't work. Turn based...these devs live in the past. After watching some of the kickstarter and how much they talk about themselves I'm very Skeptical.
Are turn-based games considered antiquated by todays players? Why is that?
It's not like real-time-based games overtook turn-based ones and no one looked back. They're just two different styles of strategy games.
Maybe I'm getting old but I prefer turn-based games nowadays. I don't really want hecticness in my games anymore. Work is stressful enough.
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Loved Divinity, enjoyed Xcom... but i also like old school turn based RPG's... Legend of the Dragoon, Final Fantasy, Arc the Lad are some of my favorites....
But IDK how much I will like it for this... would LOVE to see another Mech Commander game... but Ill definitely still try this out even with it being turn based... but idk I feel like making it sort of a moba-esque micro oriented game could be really fun... but thats not happening I guess so Ill just have to be good with this.
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On October 06 2015 01:48 MaestroSC wrote:
Loved Divinity, enjoyed Xcom... but i also like old school turn based RPG's... Legend of the Dragoon, Final Fantasy, Arc the Lad are some of my favorites....
But IDK how much I will like it for this... would LOVE to see another Mech Commander game... but Ill definitely still try this out even with it being turn based... but idk I feel like making it sort of a moba-esque micro oriented game could be really fun... but thats not happening I guess so Ill just have to be good with this.
Please no, we don't need another MOBA, especially not with mechs.
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On October 06 2015 14:17 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 01:48 MaestroSC wrote:
Loved Divinity, enjoyed Xcom... but i also like old school turn based RPG's... Legend of the Dragoon, Final Fantasy, Arc the Lad are some of my favorites....
But IDK how much I will like it for this... would LOVE to see another Mech Commander game... but Ill definitely still try this out even with it being turn based... but idk I feel like making it sort of a moba-esque micro oriented game could be really fun... but thats not happening I guess so Ill just have to be good with this. Please no, we don't need another MOBA, especially not with mechs.
As someone who doesn't even play MOBAs really but loves MECH games, a MOBA Mech game would be fun :D
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On October 06 2015 14:17 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 01:48 MaestroSC wrote:
Loved Divinity, enjoyed Xcom... but i also like old school turn based RPG's... Legend of the Dragoon, Final Fantasy, Arc the Lad are some of my favorites....
But IDK how much I will like it for this... would LOVE to see another Mech Commander game... but Ill definitely still try this out even with it being turn based... but idk I feel like making it sort of a moba-esque micro oriented game could be really fun... but thats not happening I guess so Ill just have to be good with this. Please no, we don't need another MOBA, especially not with mechs.
Mech commander wasnt a moba... i want something like a Mech Commander Arena where you get to customize your team/squad of mechs, and go into battles with other players who control their squad/mechs.
something like there is a weight limit per match, and you can either use multiple small mechs or 1 big slow mech, whatever meets the weight requirements.
Like a RTS arena without the base bulding
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
OMG a turn-based Mechcommander game?! Insta-backed, thank you very much! 
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On October 07 2015 06:13 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 14:17 gTank wrote:On October 06 2015 01:48 MaestroSC wrote:
Loved Divinity, enjoyed Xcom... but i also like old school turn based RPG's... Legend of the Dragoon, Final Fantasy, Arc the Lad are some of my favorites....
But IDK how much I will like it for this... would LOVE to see another Mech Commander game... but Ill definitely still try this out even with it being turn based... but idk I feel like making it sort of a moba-esque micro oriented game could be really fun... but thats not happening I guess so Ill just have to be good with this. Please no, we don't need another MOBA, especially not with mechs. Mech commander wasnt a moba... i want something like a Mech Commander Arena where you get to customize your team/squad of mechs, and go into battles with other players who control their squad/mechs. something like there is a weight limit per match, and you can either use multiple small mechs or 1 big slow mech, whatever meets the weight requirements. Like a RTS arena without the base bulding
If they reach the 2.5 mil $ goal you will get just that but in turn based.
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A Battletech MOBA would be god-awful. Turn based games are definitely not dead. Some of the finest games ever made were turn based. Battletech as a concept is all about tactics, and a turn based system is the only way to translate it into a computer game accurately. Mechcommander was fun, don't get me wrong, but it's not Battletech.
Great turn based games:
X-com
literally every D&D CRPG
FF Tactics
Fire Emblem
Advance Wars
HBS' own Shadowrun games
I know we're on a website devoted to a real time strategy game, but give me a break.
Edit: Also, Jordan looks *hilarious* in that flight jacket picture for the new update. Not sure if he's posing but his expression made me lol.
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There is a game lacking on that list, one that is widely regarded as best turn based game of all...
I will give you a benefit of the doubt and act like you just forgot it and not demean you by telling you which one. I will let you put it on the list quietly 
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On October 08 2015 00:27 -Archangel- wrote:There is a game lacking on that list, one that is widely regarded as best turn based game of all... I will give you a benefit of the doubt and act like you just forgot it and not demean you by telling you which one. I will let you put it on the list quietly
Well, depending on who you ask, that game is either X-Com or FF Tactics, so I'm not sure which you're talking about.
I shall accept my shame. What is it?
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Disgaea ! Muahahahahahahaha
or maybe Demonworld. or Heroes of Might and Magic ?
Battle isle ? MAX ?
Always loved the Demonworld magic system. Unless I rolled a critical failure.
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What? It's chess ofc. What else could it even be.
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I strongly believe it is Heroes of Might and Magic 3
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Dear god, people in this topic make me want to cry
Jagged Alliance 2 with v1.13 mod
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Well, it is a good game but Hom3 is epic.
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darn it. I was thinking it was fallout. But would have neve guessed Jagged Alliance 2. But I only played 1.
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JA was so epic (at least the first one) because of the characters ^^
Was epic to play too.
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i think we can agree that there were a ton of really good turn based games around in the past. :D
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haha, I'm glad that question brought up a litany of fantastic turn based games I'd forgotten about. :D
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While we're at it, Master of magic, still holds up to this day !
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On October 10 2015 02:22 HeatEXTEND wrote:
While we're at it, Master of magic, still holds up to this day !
Its turn based part was basic. That game was good because of the whole package.
Same for HoMM3, turn based alone was basic compared to JA2.
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So how is this related to Mechwarrior Online? At all? Same ip, different devs?
Edit: hey 1500 posts!
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On October 02 2015 22:34 unkkz wrote:
Loved Mechwarrior online, sadly it has like the worst fucking devs of all time who just runs with te money. Also loved Mechcommander. Hope this does well.
MWO got better recently after they ditched IGP and published independently. Lot faster progress, really fun game.
MC was such a great game. Really curious how this turns out.
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This looks really tempting for an old man who has at least 15 books with mechs, rulesets and story background.
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On October 10 2015 06:05 Lobotomist wrote:
So how is this related to Mechwarrior Online? At all? Same ip, different devs?
AFAIK, the same mech model models will be used. Other than they are two completely different projects made by a two completely separate companies.
I'm glad that HBS is using PGI's mech models and art. This will hopefully standardise the Battletech art for future projects and Mechwarrior Online's mech designs are really really good!
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On October 10 2015 06:05 Lobotomist wrote:
So how is this related to Mechwarrior Online? At all? Same ip, different devs?
Edit: hey 1500 posts!
This game is made by a guy behind the whole thing. MWO company is unrelated to original setting and world.
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It is the same IP so of course it has the same mech models and names. It all goes back to the original battletech.
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On October 10 2015 21:21 gTank wrote:
It is the same IP so of course it has the same mech models and names. It all goes back to the original battletech.
I dont think they mean it like that.
They are using the actual ingame models from MWO (wireframes/meshes/skins) which reduces development time/cost
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On October 10 2015 21:31 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2015 21:21 gTank wrote:
It is the same IP so of course it has the same mech models and names. It all goes back to the original battletech. I dont think they mean it like that. They are using the actual ingame models from MWO (wireframes/meshes/skins) which reduces development time/cost
Yeah exactly. I was specifically referring to how MWO interpreted the mechs, compared to previous interpretations. I really like Flying Debris's work. IMO their mechs look a lot more "meaty" and a lot more realistic than the older games' and even battletech's interpretations.
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Just a quick heads-up: PvP Multiplayer has been unlocked just now and the Kickstarter campaign has still about 30 hours to go! Hype :D
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Is paypal not included in the kickstarter funding number ?
Also that came out of nowhere , yesterday before i went to bed it was at 2.2 million still
Anyway i'm glad all the goals were achieved, makes me optimistic for another game featuring the clans next time.
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I supported it with my 25$, mostly because HBS have not let me down yet.
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EPT
