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On December 27 2006 15:36 Monsen wrote:
I can't believe you're serious.
1. There is hitCHANCE in Wesnoth.
2. Even with 70% hitCHANCE, which is about as high as it gets under normal circumstances, there is
a probability that most of your hits will miss, foiling your battleplan completely. Most people would call that bad LUCK. It's like you go after 2 Zerglings with 4 Marines and there is, even though it's small, a chance that they'll all get killed in a head on fight. Since Wesnoth is otherwise quite balanced such loses can hurt you decisively. I have played Wesnoth extensively and there were quite some occasions where battles got turned around by such bad LUCK.
3. I don't like strategy games with that much LUCK involved.
What? If you surround a troll with 6 units, how long do you expect him to survive? You have to concentrate your attacks.
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Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ?
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On December 27 2006 16:07 Monsen wrote:
Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ?
Stop being Obtuse. If you lose because you cant manage to kill a troll fast enough because his regeneration is 'too strong' then you are doing something wrong. Its not luck that makes him survive 10 rounds while he takes out your entire army. Its you sucking at the game.
Now go practice. If you surround a unit, and make sure you have more than enough to finish off a unit while still trying to maintain defensive lines, almost no luck is involved. At all.
Plus, ever notice how a troll is chaotic and has absolutely no ranged attack? Gee, wonder how we could use it to our advantage? Nevermind. I will just charge him with my horseman at night in the hills once a turn and if it doesnt work out gripe about luck.
Then if people try to help me see there are ways to avoid some of that luck from being a factor, I will assume they are obviously nubs, get high and mighty, treat the other posters like shit and then storm off.
Now, stop ruining my thread.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Yeah luck is involved, kinda like real combat (which this is designed to simulate to some degree) but tehn again this luck factor fades once the game become more macro, with more battle instances so the avg shines through..statistics.
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On December 27 2006 16:28 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2006 16:07 Monsen wrote:
Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ? Stop being Obtuse. If you lose because you cant manage to kill a troll fast enough because his regeneration is 'too strong' then you are doing something wrong. Its not luck that makes him survive 10 rounds while he takes out your entire army. Its you sucking at the game. Now go practice. If you surround a unit, and make sure you have more than enough to finish off a unit while still trying to maintain defensive lines, almost no luck is involved. At all. Plus, ever notice how a troll is chaotic and has absolutely no ranged attack? Gee, wonder how we could use it to our advantage? Nevermind. I will just charge him with my horseman at night in the hills once a turn and if it doesnt work out gripe about luck. Then if people try to help me see there are ways to avoid some of that luck from being a factor, I will assume they are obviously nubs, get high and mighty, treat the other posters like shit and then storm off. Now, stop ruining my thread.
It might have been an extreme example chosen to illustrate "luck". But then it also might have been bait to make you show how retarded you are. Noone will ever know. I'm not going to bother setting up decent, realistic examples of some of the battlesituations I have experienced. Instead I will let you work it out on a linguistic level. Try to argue with the word hitCHANCE and then deny luck being a factor.
Edit: Ruining your thread? If you can't take critizism towards the subject you broach then maybe you shouldn't post at all? Not to mention that I said from the start that Wesnoth is a great game just the multiplayer not being to my liking due to stated reasons. Talk about being obtuse...
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On December 27 2006 19:06 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2006 16:28 fusionsdf wrote:On December 27 2006 16:07 Monsen wrote:
Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ? Stop being Obtuse. If you lose because you cant manage to kill a troll fast enough because his regeneration is 'too strong' then you are doing something wrong. Its not luck that makes him survive 10 rounds while he takes out your entire army. Its you sucking at the game. Now go practice. If you surround a unit, and make sure you have more than enough to finish off a unit while still trying to maintain defensive lines, almost no luck is involved. At all. Plus, ever notice how a troll is chaotic and has absolutely no ranged attack? Gee, wonder how we could use it to our advantage? Nevermind. I will just charge him with my horseman at night in the hills once a turn and if it doesnt work out gripe about luck. Then if people try to help me see there are ways to avoid some of that luck from being a factor, I will assume they are obviously nubs, get high and mighty, treat the other posters like shit and then storm off. Now, stop ruining my thread. It might have been an extreme example chosen to illustrate "luck". But then it also might have been bait to make you show how retarded you are. Noone will ever know. I'm not going to bother setting up decent, realistic examples of some of the battlesituations I have experienced. Instead I will let you work it out on a linguistic level. Try to argue with the word hitCHANCE and then deny luck being a factor. Edit: Ruining your thread? If you can't take critizism towards the subject you broach then maybe you shouldn't post at all? Not to mention that I said from the start that Wesnoth is a great game just the multiplayer not being to my liking due to stated reasons. Talk about being obtuse...
You wont give an example, because you can't. You don't really have a point. You are just trying to troll a thread.
BTW, using a troll as an example unit was a nice touch.
IHBT. IHL. I HAND.
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I played the tutorial campaign easily enough and was having fun learning about all the new rules and statistics. Then I started the first actual campaign and gave up on the third mission when i missed 8 shots out of 10 having a 40% chance to hit. The same monster then hit my lvl 2 unit with every hit, killing him. I was still way ahead, but things like that just bother me.
Not to be detered, i downloaded some replays from their forums and watched to see how the seasoned players faired. Overall, i'd say the effects of the randomness were usually averaged out for better and for worse. The better player usually won, but you still occasionally see somebody get especially lucky and wipe his opponent off the map.
Overall It's an interesting game, but it's not for me. Thanks for posting it though.
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On December 27 2006 22:06 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2006 19:06 Monsen wrote:On December 27 2006 16:28 fusionsdf wrote:On December 27 2006 16:07 Monsen wrote:
Really? Amazing, I never thought of that...
For the brighter ones: Wesnoth is a great game if you're not too offended by luck being A factor. Not that big but existant nonetheless. I am, thus Wesnoth multiplayer is not for me, hmk ? Stop being Obtuse. If you lose because you cant manage to kill a troll fast enough because his regeneration is 'too strong' then you are doing something wrong. Its not luck that makes him survive 10 rounds while he takes out your entire army. Its you sucking at the game. Now go practice. If you surround a unit, and make sure you have more than enough to finish off a unit while still trying to maintain defensive lines, almost no luck is involved. At all. Plus, ever notice how a troll is chaotic and has absolutely no ranged attack? Gee, wonder how we could use it to our advantage? Nevermind. I will just charge him with my horseman at night in the hills once a turn and if it doesnt work out gripe about luck. Then if people try to help me see there are ways to avoid some of that luck from being a factor, I will assume they are obviously nubs, get high and mighty, treat the other posters like shit and then storm off. Now, stop ruining my thread. It might have been an extreme example chosen to illustrate "luck". But then it also might have been bait to make you show how retarded you are. Noone will ever know. I'm not going to bother setting up decent, realistic examples of some of the battlesituations I have experienced. Instead I will let you work it out on a linguistic level. Try to argue with the word hitCHANCE and then deny luck being a factor. Edit: Ruining your thread? If you can't take critizism towards the subject you broach then maybe you shouldn't post at all? Not to mention that I said from the start that Wesnoth is a great game just the multiplayer not being to my liking due to stated reasons. Talk about being obtuse... You wont give an example, because you can't. You don't really have a point. You are just trying to troll a thread. BTW, using a troll as an example unit was a nice touch. IHBT. IHL. I HAND.
Any early game really but especially for Mr.Dodger: 1v1@Blitz2p, Rebels vs Undead, 2 Scouts killing 2 Ghosts occupying Villages in 2 cunsecutive turns at dusk/1st watch. I see it's hard for you to get the big picture. Other have already pointed out that luck cancels out when the game turns macro. Ergo luck can be quite a factor in early game, retard.
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what's the counter to mass trolls? they have no weakness, 13 gold i think. line 3 of them up and u can't surround so they get to abuse regen like crazy? i mean wow :|
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Monsen:
Don't even post here any more. Rebel scouts? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you even play? Yea right. Recruit more scouts please until UD. If there's any unit that rebels shouldn't be recruiting, it's scouts. One last time- I'm saying you are too fucking retarded to have a proper opinion on this matter. Fuck off.
Requiem:
I don't recall- requiem = aether? Anyhow, trolls have low defense so pretty much get schooled on any terrain. They are also slow and have low hits. So if you position yourself properly trolls will miss a lot- and with their poor speed it will be easy to position advantageously. Additionally each race has a few other things to help cancel out their strength.
Loyalist: Just need to concentrate and take one out each day turn
Orc: Assassins- you can poison every troll and negate all of their regen. Then they are just shitty units.
Rebel: Lots of infantry supported by enchantress to slow
That's just a quick taste. To give you an idea of the strategy- rebels vs orcs on blitz might revolve around defending for a number of days until you create enough of an advantage to push across. Orc will be hitting you hard from the first night and you simply need to keep enough units alive and going until you can overwhelm his push and push back. This means that on that map specifically one fork of the map will be the main battle and the other fork will be just be the maintenance of the bridge.
It's tough for the elves because if you are unable to secure the advantage you can lose because you lost too many units or wasted too much time. In the first case, you'll just be overrun- in the second, the orc will have leveled some units and even with equal armies be too hard to hold.
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Wow, some peoples ignorance knows no boundaries. It seems it's true that my posts here are a waste of my time.
1. Where did I say I played Rebels.
2. It does not fucking matter what fucking unit I or fucking anyone fucking builds as long as there is an early low unit count game and HITCHANCE YOU FUCKING MORON.
3. You will realize that already other people voiced the same issues.
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I think Monsen should play a set vs fusionsdf and stop flaming each other.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
The problem with the hit chance is magnified by teh units having lowish hitpoints-damage ratio, so few hits and "trials" occur in a given battle sequence. But the hitchance mechanism is ok for something like accounting for terrain.
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Just FYI, 3 replays of high level tournament play.
If you're a moron denying the luck factor in wesnoth I'd suggest paying attention to the chat. For all the others, enjoy the games, they are rather interesting.
Wesnoth tournament replays- Sombra vs Soliton
Edit: Great epic battle showing a perfect example of luck deciding the game in the end.
semifinals game 2
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Russian Federation1401 Posts
Oh my, I have recently randomly discovered this game and recalled this post on Tl.net.
This is a geeky game made by geeks for geeks, so all of us D&D dice rolleres will appreciate it a lot.
I propose creating a Teamliquid clan!
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NICE FIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i used to play langrisser I and II, shining force II and super robot war etc, those strategy games rox. and this find is really similar to ogre battle.
THANK YOU FOR THE BUMP! or i would have NEVER FOUND IT WHHEEEE
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Russian Federation1401 Posts
On April 09 2007 17:39 Tarte wrote:
Lamely bumped SF-Fork.
C'mon, for once I succesfully use the search function and I am being flamed for it -_-
You don't have to comment if you are not interested.
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The only weakness about creating said clan is that there is no really lobby system.
Do you chill in the TL IRC channel SF-Fork/yisun? If so, we could always organize games that way - and just ask who wants to play.
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EPT
