EPTjust stick to the facts man. Artillery produced nothing. Maybe they can sell the engine they made and recover some of the investor money they got by making over the top claims like they could make the video game console obsolete.
Guardians of Atlas - Page 60
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Development ended, game appears to be dead. https://forums.artillery.com/discussion/911/end-of-development -Jinro | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16701 Posts
just stick to the facts man. Artillery produced nothing. Maybe they can sell the engine they made and recover some of the investor money they got by making over the top claims like they could make the video game console obsolete. | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
I'm not agree/disagreeing what Artillery accomplished, I'm just disputing that claim regarding alpha testers is total bs. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21671 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 07 2016 05:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote: consumers who pay to be in betas are play testing a consumer product. being involved in software development that is 2.5+ years before alpha is not play-testing a consumer product. its software development. just stick to the facts man. Artillery produced nothing. Maybe they can sell the engine they made and recover some of the investor money they got by making over the top claims like they could make the video game console obsolete. That does not create an employee-employer relationship. There is no offer of employment or status. The testers are not even traditional volunteers, since they do not work on the schedule of the developer. You lack the basic understanding of what constitutes a true employee/employer relationship and are trying to shoe horn people how are given early access to a build of a game into that relationship. You are going to troll, pick new material. This shit is played out. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16701 Posts
Of course, on their own any one in Ontario is free to get exploited for free labour outside the jurisdiction. Its just not permitted in Ontario. as an individual i wouldn't work on a software project for 3 years for free when the people in charge have $10 million to spend. that's just me. i wonder how many years Day9 worked for free. bet ya its zero. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
You just don't know what you are talking about and should likely stop. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16701 Posts
On October 07 2016 06:36 Plansix wrote: You could always work for free forever, there is nothing prohibiting it. There is not requirement that you pay someone who is preforming labor of their own free will without offering to pay them. People can't do things you don't ask for and then demand payment. You just don't know what you are talking about and should likely stop. i've linked the guidelines for unpaid work in Ontario. i'm going off of that and my personal experience dealing with the Ontario Ministry of Labour as an example jurisdiction. Several provinces in Canada have similar laws. Several 1st world countries use a similar approach. "generally, if you perform work for another person or a company or other organization and you are not in business for yourself, you would be considered to be an employee, and therefore entitled to ESA rights such as the minimum wage." that said, its arbitrary. if someone wants to secretly work for free they can easily do it. in conclusion, hopefully all those who worked for free will be able to make money in their next project. Live Long and Prosper. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On October 07 2016 06:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i've linked the guidelines for unpaid work in Ontario. i'm going off of that and my personal experience dealing with the Ontario Ministry of Labour as an example jurisdiction. Several provinces in Canada have similar laws. Several 1st world countries use a similar approach. "generally, if you perform work for another person or a company or other organization and you are not in business for yourself, you would be considered to be an employee, and therefore entitled to ESA rights such as the minimum wage." that said, its arbitrary. if someone wants to secretly work for free they can easily do it. in conclusion, hopefully all those who worked for free will be able to make money in their next project. Live Long and Prosper. Your guidelines have been shown to not match up with your claims. You have been debunked. Yet you still argue it. On October 07 2016 06:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote: as an individual i wouldn't work on a software project for 3 years for free when the people in charge have $10 million to spend. that's just me. i wonder how many years Day9 worked for free. bet ya its zero. .... in conclusion, hopefully all those who worked for free will be able to make money in their next project. Live Long and Prosper. You have been an apologetic for Blizzard, promoting for them, putting in hours marketing for them, spreading rave reviews for them, praising their developers, working as a moderator for them, praising every choice they make for years. In your career, you easily put in more work than any of the Atlas testers over the last few years. How does it feel to work for Blizzard for so many years and not get paid for it? I give props to anyone who would volunteer so much of their time. Guess that's why your jealous of Day9. Hopefully you find some projects in the future that you'll be able to make money on, rather than upsetting the people on this forum. Maybe you should message Blizzard and send them that link with the guidelines for unpaid work. I mean, your case you have been talking about is so solid, it's bulletproof! You should have no problem being re-compensated, right? | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
Guardians of Atlas playtesters are independent contractors at best. Artillery has virtually no control over when and where their playtesters "work." For this reason, the argument that Artillery owes any alpha tester any wages has no merit. This is the case in both the U.S. and Canada (including, as far as I can tell, every Canadian province). I respectfully remind you all that a little knowledge of the law can be a dangerous thing. (This goes for me as well, as I am not an employment lawyer.) | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
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ccherng
20 Posts
On October 02 2016 03:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote: no idea how people can be "shocked" or "stunned" with this game getting cancelled. It was a 4 year old company with no track record. With employees who had almost no track record with developing games and zero revenue. The game itself did not even have a revenue model. they had experienced game makers running the show. For $10, the GG and the AoA the campaign and skirmish modes aren't half bad. As a full priced game with viable automatch multiplayer GG and AoA failed. You are correct though, The makers of GG and AoA accomplished far more than the snake oil salesmen promising a browser-based platform that will make hte console obsolete and then ended up producing absolutely nothing. I love RTS games and I admire all these developers for trying to make a great game I might love. However, the marketplace is just not there. Everyone is playing Clash of Clans and Mobile Strike to scratch their army-building, stragetical-tactical itch. And its more easy and more convenient to set up those games on a tablet than any PC-RTS game. In retrospect, this is some awesome hyperbole and big talk marketing; what makes its even better is that fact these guys had never done a damn thing before. http://www.dailydot.com/esports/project-atlas-artillery-games-day-nine-esports-ankur-pansari/ What I don't understand is what the hell were they doing for 4 years? I mean maybe I'm underestimating the complexity involved in the feature set of their alpha game they released but 4 years to make that? Really? And as pointed out by others Day9 is usual a very vocal person. So the fact that Day9 said virtually nothing about the game during all these years suggest that the CEO of the company wanted nothing about the game discussed. And also the testers were required to sign NDA. So my question is what was the point of the silence? What was the point of telling employees like Day9 and testers that they couldn't openly talk about the game. I mean how in whatever way was this suppose to improve excitement over the game. It boggles my mind that no one at the company was saying this alpha is completely doomed, completely lacking excitement, and boring. I mean the CEO must be a total retard for letting all the above happen or I must be completely retarded. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21671 Posts
On October 09 2016 07:30 ccherng wrote: What I don't understand is what the hell were they doing for 4 years? I mean maybe I'm underestimating the complexity involved in the feature set of their alpha game they released but 4 years to make that? Really? And as pointed out by others Day9 is usual a very vocal person. So the fact that Day9 said virtually nothing about the game during all these years suggest that the CEO of the company wanted nothing about the game discussed. And also the testers were required to sign NDA. So my question is what was the point of the silence? What was the point of telling employees like Day9 and testers that they couldn't openly talk about the game. I mean how in whatever way was this suppose to improve excitement over the game. It boggles my mind that no one at the company was saying this alpha is completely doomed, completely lacking excitement, and boring. I mean the CEO must be a total retard for letting all the above happen or I must be completely retarded. The same way no other company talks about games in (pre) Alpha. Because things change, sometimes drastically and games even get axed completely. Talking about it only makes people assume wrong things. Same with tester NDA's. They are completely normal for Alpha's. | ||
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nighcol
298 Posts
On October 09 2016 07:30 ccherng wrote: What I don't understand is what the hell were they doing for 4 years? I mean maybe I'm underestimating the complexity involved in the feature set of their alpha game they released but 4 years to make that? Really? And as pointed out by others Day9 is usual a very vocal person. So the fact that Day9 said virtually nothing about the game during all these years suggest that the CEO of the company wanted nothing about the game discussed. And also the testers were required to sign NDA. So my question is what was the point of the silence? What was the point of telling employees like Day9 and testers that they couldn't openly talk about the game. I mean how in whatever way was this suppose to improve excitement over the game. It boggles my mind that no one at the company was saying this alpha is completely doomed, completely lacking excitement, and boring. I mean the CEO must be a total retard for letting all the above happen or I must be completely retarded. Their main business idea early on seemed to be the engine that made it possible to release games like Atlas playable in the browser. That must've taken a lot of their development time and posed unique problems. Atlas ran into performance issues with it and they abandoned that for it, after which it was actually handicapped by the engine instead of having it as a major selling point... I feel like the idea might still work for games that don't require such precision control so maybe Artillery isn't completely dead, who knows... | ||
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Capresis
United States518 Posts
The Maestros Greenlight Youtube - The Maestros | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
Just try going to their website https://www.artillery.com/ So much for that idea huh  . I wonder what the devs will move on to. We all know what day 9 is doing: a cooking show | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16701 Posts
On October 07 2016 07:52 Spyridon wrote: Your guidelines have been shown to not match up with your claims. You have been debunked. Yet you still argue it. You have been an apologetic for Blizzard, promoting for them, putting in hours marketing for them, spreading rave reviews for them, praising their developers, working as a moderator for them, praising every choice they make for years. In your career, you easily put in more work than any of the Atlas testers over the last few years. How does it feel to work for Blizzard for so many years and not get paid for it? I give props to anyone who would volunteer so much of their time. Guess that's why your jealous of Day9. Hopefully you find some projects in the future that you'll be able to make money on, rather than upsetting the people on this forum. Maybe you should message Blizzard and send them that link with the guidelines for unpaid work. I mean, your case you have been talking about is so solid, it's bulletproof! You should have no problem being re-compensated, right? so much salt  you don't read my posts; i criticize Blizzard all the time. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/overwatch/515980-overwatch-league#6 they do make the best games in the world though. they should stick to that. On November 06 2016 10:36 KeksX wrote: It's the other way around, that company was formed for the game. Not unusual. originally they intended to make some mysterious "platform" that was going to make the video game console obsolete because you could play games on your smartTV without downloading anything. | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On October 09 2016 07:30 ccherng wrote: What I don't understand is what the hell were they doing for 4 years? I mean maybe I'm underestimating the complexity involved in the feature set of their alpha game they released but 4 years to make that? Really? I guess they invested a lot of time in trying to make the game playable in a browser. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9378 Posts
What I don't understand is what the hell were they doing for 4 years? I mean maybe I'm underestimating the complexity involved in the feature set of their alpha game they released but 4 years to make that? Really? For the last 2 years I can tell you that they tried a ton of different game-modes. Constantly making adjustments and tweaks. The design-team definitely was doing something. Just weren't very good at it I guess. | ||
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