EPTOf course developers have to make money but if is the good old "you can only get these cards if you pay" or "you can get everything for free if you play 16 hours a day for 25 years or pay" then it's just another worthless PTW game.
Hex: New digital CCG from Cryptozoic - Page 2
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
Of course developers have to make money but if is the good old "you can only get these cards if you pay" or "you can get everything for free if you play 16 hours a day for 25 years or pay" then it's just another worthless PTW game. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I pledged 45$ for this, and I'm happy the tablet version was unlocked. Looking forward to playing this in the train on my Nexus 7 :D | ||
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
On May 31 2013 22:25 CrimsonLotus wrote: The question is, how much pay to win will it be? Of course developers have to make money but if is the good old "you can only get these cards if you pay" or "you can get everything for free if you play 16 hours a day for 25 years or pay" then it's just another worthless PTW game. They haven't said what ways of unlocking cards/boosters there are for people who only play without ever paying. Starting an account is free, and you get 1 free starter deck. As far as "how much pay to win", it's really best to think of the PVP side as just a normal CCG, but online. They've said they'll be charging $2 for a 15 card booster. It's unlikely that if you play purely free you'll get anywhere in the PVP side of things, but you should still be able to work through the PVE side. I can't provide a source on this, but I remember them saying you should be able to get every card you would need purely through boosters. Since they intend to grow this as a competitive CCG (and have plans for World Championships etc already), I seriously doubt they will have any of those "Buy this specific card from us or you suck" kind of things. Cards will be released in sets, and you acquire them by buying boosters. Most of the other stuff SHOULD be things like alt-art promos etc. It looks like they'll be an (albeit cheaper) MTG style sales point. Buy boosters for your cards, buy or trade with other players for anything you're missing. Bare in mind MTGO sells boosters for full physical retail value, Hex will be a LOT cheaper for people who want a high quality competitive CCG in a digital space. EDIT: And the idea that people keep using the words "Pay to Win" when talking about a CCG is pretty funny. CCGs are buy their very nature "pay to win". But not in the same way the words are used about things like MMOs. I fully expect to have to spend money on this to remain competitive though (which I intend to be). | ||
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kaykaykay
Singapore637 Posts
On May 31 2013 22:13 IMABUNNEH wrote: Well Grand King is the best overall value I think, but both that and Pro Player have been sold out for a while. I'm in at collector, the same monetary entrance as Pro Player, but we only get the free draft a week for 1 year instead of for life. If you go Guild Master, you get an extra 90 set 1 boosters to start with, but I think in the long term, the exclusive alt art cards (especially as there aren't that many Collector Tiers yet) will provide a lot of value if I choose to sell/trade them. There's people camping/scripting for the Pro Player and Grand King Tiers though, so even when one opens up it's almost impossible to grab it. If you're not sure how long the game will last, probably Guild Master for the extra $180 worth of boosters is best (Since you get about $490 worth of boosters before any of the other rewards). Then we can make plans for a TL guild haha. How important is the draft for life anyway? It seems like the best one to go for if you wanna remain competitive, with them releasing new sets every 4 months. | ||
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
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Lyter
United Kingdom2145 Posts
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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karazax
United States3737 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On June 08 2013 00:28 karazax wrote: 2 hours left and they are pushing $2.5 million in funding. thanks for stating this, just made a donation with 1.5 hours? to spare :D | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 31 2013 22:25 CrimsonLotus wrote: The question is, how much pay to win will it be? Of course developers have to make money but if is the good old "you can only get these cards if you pay" or "you can get everything for free if you play 16 hours a day for 25 years or pay" then it's just another worthless PTW game. From their website it appears that the single-player portion of the game will unlock from a base set of 300 cards, and "Set 1" will have 350 cards that can only be unlocked via tournament play, buying boosters, or auction house. How the business model will evolve as new sets are added to the game remains to be seen. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
This is making me vomit in my mouth. Watered down MtG sold to casuals. Thanks a lot, guys. | ||
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Incognitodies
United Kingdom184 Posts
And why the hell would I want to play Magic against a computer? The whole fun about these games is you have your deck and you are playing someone else who also has their own deck. So instead people are going to go into dungeons and fight prebuild AI decks and solve puzzles? How is that fun? Somebody should tell Fantasy Flight to get their LCGs online as apparently its free money and every one they have published is 100x better than this. | ||
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
This is making me vomit in my mouth. Watered down MtG sold to casuals. That's a fucking stupid statement though. If it's the SAME as MTG, the only thing "watered down" is the fact that it doesn't have 20 odd years of development having happened and therefore has a lot less cards initially. And why the hell would I want to play Magic against a computer? The whole fun about these games is you have your deck and you are playing someone else who also has their own deck. So instead people are going to go into dungeons and fight prebuild AI decks and solve puzzles? How is that fun? I dunno, I have no intention of doing more than use the PVE as a side distraction. It's a CCG, and they're pushing the tournament side of it, I plan on playing vs other players, not playing against an AI. That doesn't mean it can't be fun though. WoW raid decks were a lot of fun and extremely successful/popular. And apparently their idea of a good game is shitty power level weenie deck vs shitty power level red deck. I mean, you're clearly only here to troll the thread. There are other games showcased that are much more interesting. Of course 2 aggro decks in an early pre-alpha build are not going to be a particularly interesting game. The most recent stream showcased some slightly more complex decks. All your vitriol aside, which really has no place here anyway, even if it IS just Magic reskinned, it's still worth playing if it's something you find interesting. Because not everyone can play cards IRL. And the MTGO platform is fucking atrocious. The fact that the game is digital only also opens up some more interesting/fun interactions that you can't do in real games, such as Booby Trap: http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/card.php?c=81 -> http://hex.potion-of-wit.com/card.php?c=99 When looking at cards, also remember this is SET 1. This is a base set. Think about Magic's core sets. They don't have piss all exciting in them either. I know this post won't change the view of the two posters above me since they're clearly already decided having read about one paragraph and watched like 10 minutes of footage, making them complete experts. I hope it helps the rest of you who may be put off by those posts though. And as a side note, if FFG brought any of their LCGs online I would buy the shit out of that. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
I am admittedly elitist and picky about game design. Hex appears to wholesale lift the mechanics and core design space of magic, add a few things that will provide the illusion of "more options" and attract people who feel good when they combine two game pieces, and ride the possibilities opened by virtuality away from the core design mistakes. Including "everyone can use them" mix-and-match features like gems will narrow the options for balance/power level in card design. I'm sure they'll get a lot of mileage out of format design and other mechanics you can't do on paper. I doubt it will help lead them out of the confined space called "how many ways can you avoid being exactly like magic". It's not even that I dislike that they're copying. I just think it's a premature product that does not iterate / depart enough from its model and starting point. Hence my complaint that they are selling a knockoff brand to casuals with gewgaws and f2p because they won't know any better. Maybe I'm wrong; I hope so; we'll see. | ||
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
), the client has a similar system to MTGO with constant pick up tournaments... there's a market there for serious players as well as the more casual side of the game.I don't think offering multiple options is a bad thing, it draws more players in. The $250 tier that offers free drafts for life was on of the first tiers to sell out, so there's clear intent to play within the competitive area. Every CCG has to start "casual", there isn't a franchise that has ever successfully had a fully fledged and involved tournament scene from the very get go. But the PVE side, with the equipment, gems, etc doesn't impact the PVP side. Everything Cryptozoic has said about that has made me excited for a digital CCG that has learned to seperate "progression" vs AI from the player vs player interactions that are the very core of a CCG. I anticipate the PVE to be a fun distraction, not much more. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Wetty
Australia419 Posts
On June 08 2013 12:21 TheYango wrote: Honestly, WotC really missed the boat not making MtGO use an F2P business model in the first place. To be fair, when MtGO first came about, F2P wasn't a well established business model. At that point in time many people would have laughed at the idea. I do think they could have changed their business model and released a new platform though... Honestly, the thing that excites me most about Hex is that it's free (mostly, given I've backed it, not exactly ) and that it has, what appears to be, a very good playing surface for the card game. The fact that it is basically a reharsh of magic isn't a bad thing to me - because it means it has potential to be great, on a platform that is convenient to me. I stopped playing magic for 2 reasons, the first was because the people I played with started to drift apart and we couldn't play as regularly and the second was cost. I was willing to take the cost to play with friends, but as it became harder, the cost of keeping up with MtG became evident. It's really expensive! So for me, Hex offers an interesting opportunity to play something I know that I like, but it's new enough that I don't have to feel like I missed out or would have trouble getting back into it (like magic after years of not playing) and it's convenient and cheap. Ticks all the boxes for me, and I can see why some people may disapprove of it BECAUSE of how similar it is to magic... Yet they fail to look at it from the other side of the coin. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
Maybe people with have their cardboard game and their ipad game and everyone will be happy. I don't see how they can have competitive f2p indefinitely. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On June 08 2013 12:46 Wetty wrote: To be fair, when MtGO first came about, F2P wasn't a well established business model. At that point in time many people would have laughed at the idea. I do think they could have changed their business model and released a new platform though... Honestly, the thing that excites me most about Hex is that it's free (mostly, given I've backed it, not exactly ) and that it has, what appears to be, a very good playing surface for the card game. The fact that it is basically a reharsh of magic isn't a bad thing to me - because it means it has potential to be great, on a platform that is convenient to me. I stopped playing magic for 2 reasons, the first was because the people I played with started to drift apart and we couldn't play as regularly and the second was cost. I was willing to take the cost to play with friends, but as it became harder, the cost of keeping up with MtG became evident. It's really expensive! So for me, Hex offers an interesting opportunity to play something I know that I like, but it's new enough that I don't have to feel like I missed out or would have trouble getting back into it (like magic after years of not playing) and it's convenient and cheap. Ticks all the boxes for me, and I can see why some people may disapprove of it BECAUSE of how similar it is to magic... Yet they fail to look at it from the other side of the coin.MTGO is extremely profitable, and last time I heard It's doing extremely well. I don't have specific numbers or anything, but their business model works and a new platform/business model would be a nightmare considering the thousands of dollars individuals have tied up in MTGO cards. Don't expect MTGO to change, and I honestly hope it doesn't, although we could see Duels of the Planeswalkers grow and expand(especially hopefully add deckbuilding some day) and then move in to compete with some of these other DCGs. | ||
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