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On August 06 2012 11:18 Rainmaker5 wrote:
It's hilarious how garbage I am at this game~~~ lot of fun though. I try to die 3 times a day. Which adds up to maybe 30 minutes tops xS
Haha. How far along are you getting? What race/skill combos have you been trying?
If you want to make things a bit easier for yourself, pick Noldor -> Feanor as your race/house, and then put 5 points each into melee, stealth, and evasion. Take Charge as your melee ability. This way, most monsters won't see you right off the bat.
Also, don't pick fights with groups of monsters. Fight in corridors if a pack is trying to surround you.
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Next video in the stealth/archer series is up:
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT: Youtube snafu -- reuploaded
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Took a week break from Sil then went back in to do some more archery.
Getting slightly irritated at the inventory restriction of a couple dozen items regardless of size/weight. Tempting to make a build that just rushes Loremaster
Did one run with a zero stealth, low smithing archer which wasn't as painful as I thought it would be (up until false floor => get knocked to 10 HP => 3 Easterling archers spawning on the stairs up from 450' while I'm in the middle of the room, assholes). The general idea was to maximize my 1 or 2 shot kill ability through Perception + Focused Attack + Precision + Flaming Arrows + too much Archery. Hell I ditched Versatility and used archery in melee without Point Blank; you don't take Attacks of Opportunity if your target dies immediately  Still needed to be really careful though and had to run for the stairs a few times.
One somewhat notable thing was that I didn't really fear Wargs much; turn on the flame and attempt a killshot before they can attack.
Sadly I didn't get to the actual hard part of the game with all the really mean stuff but I'll probably try it again.
The other build I had in mind used Stealth + Song of Silence. At least in early game I was able to get quite a few kills without anyone waking anybody up - like, the wolves/orcs or whatever would just sit there and die one at a time because combat/shouting gets muffled. Wonder if it's worthwhile...
*edit* Question: Is there anything really dangerous that's crit *immune* and not crit resistant? I've never run into a Deathblade for example so that's probably top of my priority list. If it's only (heh) crit resistant it might be a little easier to handle if I do things properly.
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Some nice experimentation there, Scrubtastic. Your mega-archery focused build is definitely viable, but packs are dangerous, as you discovered. Still, though, false floors are almost always very bad/unlucky. I
Stealth + song of silence is very effective. Stealth + vanish has a similar effect, since you can sneak out of sight if too many monsters are aggravated, but Song of Silence is very cheap (relative to Vanish) and you can use it for other things (muffling the sound of doors you need to break down, for example.)
I think there are some statue-type (H) and undead monsters who are crit-immune, but I can't remember off the top of my head. I would say that Deathblades are the biggest worry for a stealthy/stabby/shooty character, since it takes a high melee score _and_ high non-crit damage dice to reliably damage them. I play a lot of stealth/rogue type characters, and while Delmereth is one of the best non-smithed weapons for such a character, it's a HUGE pain to subdue him without dying. Usually I have to quaff !Str, !Dex, and !Con and wield a greatsword or a mattock or something to bring it down.
Next video in the stealth/archer series is up:
+ Show Spoiler [video] +
Enjoy!
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Oh in my quest for archery starts I found a couple of things to potentially take advantage of:
A) The so-called 100' forge isn't really a 100' forge...it's the 2nd map forge. So if you want to forge something (like that longbow you always wanted) but don't want to risk trying to clear out the forge at 100' with a gimptacular character (like my non-Versatility archer) you find the stairs UP, end up back in 50' and then find the forge on that map, which will probably be quite a bit easier to clear.
Disadvantages:
1) You lose out on quite a bit of XP due to lack of new creatures/floor XP. So if your smithing requires XP (sprinting boots) I probably wouldn't bother at all.
2) Potential gimping of the forge. I know my sample size is limited but a forge a 50' seems to never be a 4 use and is kinda often a 2 use. I recall one moment in one of mikedebo's videos that a 4 use forge is quite important, and I'm not sure if it ever happens at 50'
B) Taking a page from certain other roguelike degenerate scum tactics (although this game is probably hard enough, and stairwalking is punishing enough, that doing tactics like these isn't really that degenerate at all), you can farm certain items a bit by purposely respawning floors. I find this pretty helpful with farming vanilla arrows; clearing 100'/150' a few times can get me a good stockpile of arrows (that I will proceed to set on fire).
*edit* Thanks for the videos - gonna admit though that I'm not too much of a video person and really like reading text instead so I haven't watched the latest ones yet, so if you covered something like this in your last two videos I apologize
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On August 11 2012 17:55 scrubtastic wrote:
Oh in my quest for archery starts I found a couple of things to potentially take advantage of:
A) The so-called 100' forge isn't really a 100' forge...it's the 2nd map forge. So if you want to forge something (like that longbow you always wanted) but don't want to risk trying to clear out the forge at 100' with a gimptacular character (like my non-Versatility archer) you find the stairs UP, end up back in 50' and then find the forge on that map, which will probably be quite a bit easier to clear.
Disadvantages:
1) You lose out on quite a bit of XP due to lack of new creatures/floor XP. So if your smithing requires XP (sprinting boots) I probably wouldn't bother at all.
2) Potential gimping of the forge. I know my sample size is limited but a forge a 50' seems to never be a 4 use and is kinda often a 2 use. I recall one moment in one of mikedebo's videos that a 4 use forge is quite important, and I'm not sure if it ever happens at 50'
Yup, this is a great trick to use if you're trying to be safe. I don't particularly like it because, as you said, you lose out on XP. If you're just forging weapons, then it's great. An archer, for example, could forge a longbow, arrows, a mattock, and something like a longsword of brilliance or a defender longsword for very little XP.
I don't think it should affect the probability of getting 4 uses on the forge, though -- you might just be getting screwed by the RNG 
I haven't explicitly mentioned this in the videos, IIRC -- thanks for reminding me. I'll try to remember to address it on the next character I spin up!
On August 11 2012 17:55 scrubtastic wrote:
B) Taking a page from certain other roguelike degenerate scum tactics (although this game is probably hard enough, and stairwalking is punishing enough, that doing tactics like these isn't really that degenerate at all), you can farm certain items a bit by purposely respawning floors. I find this pretty helpful with farming vanilla arrows; clearing 100'/150' a few times can get me a good stockpile of arrows (that I will proceed to set on fire).
This is a good idea that I never thought of before. You can't farm 100'/150' too many times anyways because you are allowed very few turns at that depth, so you might as well maximize it while you can! At that point, you could probably just dive to 400'/450' to make up for lost time.
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This is one of my favorites so far! We're getting close to the endgame, so there's a lot of new sights to see:
+ Show Spoiler [video] +
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Really excited for the end dude!
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Haha it's coming! Thanks for watching
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Angband is easily my favourite game ever. I can definitely recommend roguelikes in general. And angband.oook.cz is a great community that anyone interested in roguelikes should hang out in.
6-8 hour games sound hillarious. Angband usually takes a week of solid daily play. Unless you're PowerDiver, in which case you can win fucking ironman artifactless games well shy of level 50 -_-
Sil sounds a little luck based though, is that not the case? My impression of angband was that it was pure skill-based from start to finish. If you got into an unwinnable situation, it was your fault and could've easily been avoided.
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I actually dislike vanilla angband quite a bit now. I was hella addicted to it at first, but the love affair quickly cooled.
I've finished it several times, and the only characters I've ever killed were mage-types. It drags on too long, the gameplay is too rinse-repeat, and after my first win, I found myself to be bored. Reason being that all fights degenerate into "dig antisummon tunnel, quaff infinity potions, spam attack". Insta-escapes are boring for me -- triggering a teleport level or teleport rod when you're in trouble isn't really tension-inducing to me. And the firm speed and resistance walls are a cheeky difficulty mechanic, IMO -- getting killed by an offscreen drolem breathing poison because you haven't found a resistance to it yet isn't interesting to me.
Still, I think it's a good introductory roguelike for people looking to get their feet wet. Especially 3.3-ish, since it's so easy. There are other variants of it that are quite good as well.
Sil is about 1000x better than Angband in my (biased) opinion. The gameplay is tight. Different monsters require different approaches to defeat. Different players can find success in wildly different playstyles -- some players (like myself) have claimed it's impossible to win without stealth, while others find it impossible to win _with_ stealth. And tactics matter a lot more than in Angband, IMO -- once you develop tactical approaches for specific monsters / situations that are tailored to your build, you start to do very well.
Good luck in Sil can make your life easier, but it's not required to win. I feel like this is the same as in Angband, but Angband gives you a lot more room to make mistakes. After all, if things get tough, you can just teleport away and hope you don't get caught in another awful situation.
Sil hits that sweet spot of everything I love about roguelikes. I don't think it's for everyone. But I'm sure glad it's there
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wwwwww@wwww <-- This is how I've died the last 3 or 4 times. Clear worms...I was doing pretty well up until then, poison hurts!
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On September 03 2012 02:19 justinpal wrote:
wwwwww@wwww <-- This is how I've died the last 3 or 4 times. Clear worms...I was doing pretty well up until then, poison hurts!
Don't fight near worms if you can help it. And if there are like 4+ of them, go around. Close doors on them to quarantine them if they start to get out of hand.
If they surround you, eat a herb of rage. Doesn't work that well in corridors, but in a wide-open room it's awesome. So much carnage! Even better if you have song of slaying
New video up -- this one of the + Show Spoiler +!
+ Show Spoiler [video] +
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Just checking in to say that there's been a new version of Sil released (1.1) and it's AWESOME!
I've started a new 1.1 character for demonstration purposes:
+ Show Spoiler [video] +
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EPT
