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On July 27 2012 13:09 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 21:19 mikedebo wrote:
Ha! Are you opposed to elves altogether, or just the Noldor? If you can play Sindar, a Falathrim archery build is a reasonable introduction to the game. Otherwise, I'd use the Naugrim with Smithing mastery and make awesome stuff.
I'm more of a fanatic for Tolkien Dwarves than anything. I have only played Naugrim as of right now. I'm going to really experiment with enchanting and smithing. I have so many options that I am not even certain what is best just yet. But, it really has been fun so far. Your videos are great for helping me figure things out.
The 100' forge is very important for smithing-focused characters.
For a protection-based brawler (which dwarves are quite good at), a good start is taking Armoursmith and Enchantment and making mail corslet of protection and a shield of deflection, plus whatever else you can make. Alternatively, you can take Armoursmith and Artistry and make armor with strong bonuses.
Don't worry about forging a weapon at 100' because dwarves have axe proficiency, and you should be able to find a decent battle-axe before 300'.
Also, throwing axes are viable ranged weapons for dwarves. They suck at archery, but throwing is based on melee and throwing axes are very powerful throwing weapons.
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This is sort of random, but I just did some idle creeping after killing off my 150th Sil character and discovered that the game's creator is sort of a minor celebrity. He makes an average salary at Oxford and has committed to giving a big chunk of it away to charity, despite the fact that he is not rich.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11950843
Definitely helps explain the general spirit of economy and thrift that went into Sil's design! 
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Playing this now.
This roguelike doesn't have 500 hidden mechanics that require me to have a wiki open at all times which is quite nice.
The combat actually feels...good. I feel like I'm rewarded for proper combat planning and choosing when and how to engage/GTFO, while other roguelikes are sort of degenerate on combat especially with Teleport spells, or high speed being an insta-out from 90%+ of bad engagements. I'm slightly irritated that I don't get to start with a bow or a stack of throwing weapons immediately though.
Currently really sucking at a few things though.
-Is there a list of things that are guaranteed like the forge at 100'? Guaranteed items for example
-Is there a way to hotkey throwing weapons like how bows are automatically fired? Having to go through selecting my throwing weapon each time makes them harder to use.
-How the hell do I increase my light radius?
Thanks
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On July 30 2012 04:56 scrubtastic wrote:
Playing this now.
This roguelike doesn't have 500 hidden mechanics that require me to have a wiki open at all times which is quite nice.
The combat actually feels...good. I feel like I'm rewarded for proper combat planning and choosing when and how to engage/GTFO, while other roguelikes are sort of degenerate on combat especially with Teleport spells, or high speed being an insta-out from 90%+ of bad engagements. I'm slightly irritated that I don't get to start with a bow or a stack of throwing weapons immediately though.
Putting 2 points into Smithing and taking weaponsmith will guarantee you a bow and (at least) 24 arrows at the 100' forge. If you're playing a Feanorian elf, this is 300xp investment (since your first forging ability will be free.)
I'd say about 75% of the games I play will present me with a bow and some arrows before 150'. Even if you just take archery points and buy Versatility (without putting any points in melee), you can usually survive pretty easily until then.
On July 30 2012 04:56 scrubtastic wrote:
Currently really sucking at a few things though.
-Is there a list of things that are guaranteed like the forge at 100'? Guaranteed items for example
-Is there a way to hotkey throwing weapons like how bows are automatically fired? Having to go through selecting my throwing weapon each time makes them harder to use.
-How the hell do I increase my light radius?
Thanks
There really aren't any other guarantees until you get to 1000'  I guess you can count the types of monsters that appear at each depth as a 'guarantee', and that is something you learn with time. The only other thing I can think of is that Clear potions are guaranteed to be Miruvor, and Murky Brown potions are guaranteed to be Orcish Liquor. Certain uniques also drop very specific artefacts, but that isn't guaranteed either (e.g. the only way to get the Spear of Boldog is by killing Boldog, but he's _not_ guaranteed to drop it.)
You can semi-hotkey any item by using inscriptions. So, if you want to be able to throw your daggers by typing 't0', then inscribe them with '{' and give them the inscription '@t0'. (Or '@t1' if you want to type 't1', etc.)
This works well for swap-equipment, too. If you have a weapon you often swap to, you can inscribe it with '@w0' and then typing "w0" will do it, no matter what letter-code it has been given in your inventory. (This is common across all Angband-style roguelikes, AFAIK.)
Light radius is discussed in one of the early videos. Helms of brilliance, swords of brilliance, amulet of the blessed realm (forging a +0 one of these takes only 11 Smithing skill) are all wearable equipment that increase light radius. A plain old lantern has 2 radius, instead of the 1 given by torches. Feanorian lamps are even better, and burn forever. Many artefacts also increase your light radius.
Situationally, you can sing the Song of Trees to temporarily get more light. Weapons with a Slays X will give you an extra light radius when monsters of type X are near. Finally, taking Inner Light (Will ability) won't increase your radius, but will shine your light more brightly in its current radius (good for dispelling darkness). Keen senses (Perception ability) lets you see monsters just outside of your light radius, which is incredibly useful for stealth- or archery-based builds.
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Yeah my last melee character got stuck in a dark room and died to a very high number of worms I couldn't see.
So I've been looking at ranged options with lots of light so I can hopefully avoid that (and I still had a stack of torches and nothing else lol). Archery looks like it has lots of potential for picking off annoying high evasion/ranged things...but I need to be able to see everything. Oh and surviving melee would be pretty nice too - guess just pumping archery and getting Versatility would be the way to go.
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Archers are really good in Sil. For your initial build, I'd put 3 points into Song and take Elbereth, and then split the rest among Archery and Evasion. Take Versatility in the Archery tree.
Use Elbereth to scare off / scatter orc soldiers that you encounter too soon. If you drive them towards stairs when they're fleeing, they'll run up/down them.
Pool your XP until you get to the 100' forge and you've cleared the 100' floor. If you haven't seen a bow and/or arrows by the time you're there, put 2 pts into Smithing and take Weaponsmith. Forge away. (Ideal bow is an x lb longbow, where x is your strength.)
After that, pump Archery and Evasion, taking Precision from the archery tree ASAP. Use Elbereth to push monsters away when they get too close, and you'll be able to keep shooting.
I'm going to do an archery series soon!
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On July 30 2012 06:57 scrubtastic wrote:
Yeah my last melee character got stuck in a dark room and died to a very high number of worms I couldn't see.
Inner Light and/or a Herb of Rage would have helped your escape. Also, when you see a worm that you know you're not going to kill, try to make sure that all the doors to its room are shut.
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I've only played a little, but I really like it so far. I've only played NetHack and Crawl Stone Soup in the past, and I'm enjoying the contrast here. The AI in Sil seems much more interesting. It seems like in NH and DCSS most enemies go on the attack as soon as they see you, but some in Sil will move around to stay out of your reach and flee when they are injured. It feels more like they're actual characters in a world rather than a bundle of hit points and attacks. Overall, instead of just throwing in more and more mechanics and options like DCSS, they focus on making the core mechanics deep and interesting.
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On July 30 2012 08:30 Apothegm wrote:
I've only played a little, but I really like it so far. I've only played NetHack and Crawl Stone Soup in the past, and I'm enjoying the contrast here. The AI in Sil seems much more interesting. It seems like in NH and DCSS most enemies go on the attack as soon as they see you, but some in Sil will move around to stay out of your reach and flee when they are injured. It feels more like they're actual characters in a world rather than a bundle of hit points and attacks. Overall, instead of just throwing in more and more mechanics and options like DCSS, they focus on making the core mechanics deep and interesting.
That's the 4GAI from NPPAngband at work, I believe I'm not sure if the game's creators tweaked it at all. I also don't know if that AI survives in current versions of NPPAngband, but that's another great roguelike of the sprawling, complicated variety!
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Currently: loving the hell out of archery
Kiting enemies? Hummerhorns/archers/high evade stuff? They all eat an arrow or three to the face at whatever range I like, I just don't care.
Oh look, that large group of orc warriors is waiting for me to exit the corridor.
1) Turn on Elbereth in corridor
2) Watch them all run
3) Snipe with impunity
Stupid archery moment:
There was a room full of clear worms between me and both staircases (I blame that large group of Easterling warriors for occupying my time). I also had a nice stockpile (200+) of vanilla arrows.
1) Step into line of sight of the room
2) Fire until I can't see anything
3) Step closer
4) Repeat 2) and 3) until the room is cleared
I think I only got meleed twice during the entire effort.
Current archery issues:
Damage output is very low vs high protect stuff. Flaming arrows on/off seems to work for some of them but I really should look into something else because that is pretty harsh on my arrow stockpile and for one target even that wasn't enough. Maybe Song of Sharpness?
Looks like Enchant for poisoned/piercing arrows. Tempted to get a smith/archer.
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Looks interesting, thanks for sharing. Gonna check out your videos when I get time later.
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This game looks super fun and I want to play it but I just cant play a roguelike without the hjkl keys for movement. Is there any way to turn them on in this game?
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On July 31 2012 12:32 scrubtastic wrote:
Currently: loving the hell out of archery
Kiting enemies? Hummerhorns/archers/high evade stuff? They all eat an arrow or three to the face at whatever range I like, I just don't care.
Oh look, that large group of orc warriors is waiting for me to exit the corridor.
1) Turn on Elbereth in corridor
2) Watch them all run
3) Snipe with impunity
Stupid archery moment:
There was a room full of clear worms between me and both staircases (I blame that large group of Easterling warriors for occupying my time). I also had a nice stockpile (200+) of vanilla arrows.
1) Step into line of sight of the room
2) Fire until I can't see anything
3) Step closer
4) Repeat 2) and 3) until the room is cleared
I think I only got meleed twice during the entire effort.
Current archery issues:
Damage output is very low vs high protect stuff. Flaming arrows on/off seems to work for some of them but I really should look into something else because that is pretty harsh on my arrow stockpile and for one target even that wasn't enough. Maybe Song of Sharpness?
Looks like Enchant for poisoned/piercing arrows. Tempted to get a smith/archer.
From what I've seen among the uploaded characters, Song of Sharpness is definitely the way to go, you should more or less rush it. In the comment section, it looked like they got to a "wall" where if you get song of sharpness, it becomes WAY easier suddenly.
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On July 31 2012 15:29 whatusername wrote:
This game looks super fun and I want to play it but I just cant play a roguelike without the hjkl keys for movement. Is there any way to turn them on in this game?
I'm pretty sure that's mentioned in the tutorial? Have you tried the options menu? (I think it's O for options).
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On July 31 2012 15:29 whatusername wrote:
This game looks super fun and I want to play it but I just cant play a roguelike without the hjkl keys for movement. Is there any way to turn them on in this game?
Sil does have rogue-style controls that it inherited from NPPAngband, but I think there might be some glitches in there still. Go to (O)ptions, pick (a), and then select "Move with hjkl..."
On July 31 2012 12:32 scrubtastic wrote:
Current archery issues:
Damage output is very low vs high protect stuff. Flaming arrows on/off seems to work for some of them but I really should look into something else because that is pretty harsh on my arrow stockpile and for one target even that wasn't enough. Maybe Song of Sharpness?
Weapons in Sil are sort of slotted across a continuum of "light" (low # of dice, but high number of sides) and "heavy" (high number of dice, low number of sides.) Bow/arrow counts as "light", for all intents and purposes, since bows do 1dX damage, where X is usually quite large.
There are two types of monsters that give "light" weapons users headaches:
1) High protection monsters. This can actually be mitigated by taking a light bow (one whose weight exactly matches your strength is usually a good idea), and making sure that you get Precision and other attack-boosting/crit enhancing abilities (like Focused Attack.) Catching the enemy off-guard is great too -- if they're unwary or sleeping, they will take a large evasion penalty. That's why I like stealth on my archers.
If you get your attack roll high enough and their evasion roll is low enough, you will easily do multi-critical hits. If you get a 3-4x critical, there are few protection-monsters in the game who can withstand that. This works really well with Crippling Shot.
As an example, the Serpents that begin appearing around 600' have very high protection, but their evasion is not great. If you peg them with one good multi-critical shot, they will die.
2) Critical-resistant/immune monsters. For these guys, you don't have many options. You either have to run from them, or get piercing arrows or song of sharpness. The most dangerous of these are also fast and hit hard -- e.g. Deathblades. It's not a bad idea as an archer to carry around a big weapon in case of emergencies, like a good Greatsword or Bastard sword. That way, if your back is up against a wall and you have crit-resistant monsters to either side, you can down a !Dex and/or !Str and wack your way out of it. Disguise and Vanish are probably the best option here, though -- no one said you need to kill _everything_
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In response to some of the comments here, I've started a new video series with an archery-based build. Enjoy!
+ Show Spoiler +
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It's hilarious how garbage I am at this game~~~ lot of fun though. I try to die 3 times a day. Which adds up to maybe 30 minutes tops xS
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EPT
