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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
Yes Button would of needed to pit, but unless he was sat in the pit lane for 40 seconds he would not of been troubled at the front of the race? Lewis was losing time after he put the inters on as he said on the team radio, jenson and nico were laughing at this time due to being able to continue their normal race...until the SC came out and ruined an easy 1-2 for them. (pit stop takes 20seconds, average) | ||
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Aristodemus
England1993 Posts
As for who would win in a battle between Button and Vettel in the same car, I would say Vettel but it would be even closer than the battle he has had with Hamilton. As for the poster criticizing "Brits" for saying Vettel was lucky. He caused an incident yesterday, no penalty fair enough even though two cars retired from it, but the contact was huge on his rear suspension. The only other time I have thought "how has that car continued" was Spa with Barrichello and Alonso a few years back. Saying somebody was lucky, when they were, is not derogatory. | ||
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baldgye
United Kingdom1092 Posts
Vettel would destroy button in an 'even' fight. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
Hammy would of won AFTER the SC bunched the pack back up, if it wasn't for back markers, and a reckless Nico sliding into him. Even fight, Button wins vs Vettel, Vettel has not shown to me what a good racing driver he is. He has only won/overtaken mass amount of people when his car is superior to the others. If Vettel makes it 4WDC out of 4 then i will give him credit for being a world class, top level driver. Until then, i just see him as a lucky boy. | ||
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baldgye
United Kingdom1092 Posts
I really think your delusional, Vettel has raced aswell as anyone else this season and in the pervious two, he's far more talented than button will ever be and is one of the greats. The only people who match him on the grid are Lewis, Alonso and Kimmi (maybe). Buttons a good driver, no doubt, but he's not in the same league as the big boys. As he proved this season where Lewis (despite mclaren) actually stood a chance while button couldn't get to grips with it during the first half of the season. It's worth pointing out, that despite all the dnf's Lewis had because of reliability and drivers crashing into him, he still beat Jensen in the WDC. | ||
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Aristodemus
England1993 Posts
I dont think you give Jenson enough credit though, he would give Seb a much better run for his money than Webber has. Since that traumatic winter of 2008 for him where his career could easily have ended he has got better and better. After his title in 09 he stepped up again and has performed better vrs Lewis than I certainly thought he would. Button looks slow in qualifying, but I think that is only because his benchmark is Lewis, and I have no doubt that Lewis is the fastest guy on the grid in qualifying. Vettel v Button in the same car would be great I think, but like I said I think Seb would come out on top....just. Hulkenberg would have won Pandemona, he was faster than JB as he proved when the SC went in. | ||
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KiNGxXx
7928 Posts
On November 26 2012 22:13 Aristodemus wrote: As for the poster criticizing "Brits" for saying Vettel was lucky. He caused an incident yesterday, no penalty fair enough even though two cars retired from it, but the contact was huge on his rear suspension. The only other time I have thought "how has that car continued" was Spa with Barrichello and Alonso a few years back. Saying somebody was lucky, when they were, is not derogatory. It's not only this race. After every win for Vettel we have to read how lucky he is. Why don't you admit he drove really good after being in last position after the first lap, had a shitty aerodynamic with his damaged car, had to deal with bad decisions from his team, and all this without being able to talk to his crew? Yeah, he was lucky... I don't say he is the best driver cause it's hard to tell. But to be a champion you don't have to be fast only. You have to work with your team and have to be smart. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
This time he didn't have the runaway best car and had to fight hard and keep it calm and controlled under a lot of pressure. He's got better and proven himself among the top 5 best drivers on the grid. | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
Also, RIP Jake Humphrey. You will be missed. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On November 27 2012 01:56 greggy wrote: he is still vastly overrated by people living in 2008 Only 2 year olds know the real story. | ||
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Aristodemus
England1993 Posts
On November 27 2012 01:41 KiNGxXx wrote: It's not only this race. After every win for Vettel we have to read how lucky he is. Why don't you admit he drove really good after being in last position after the first lap, had a shitty aerodynamic with his damaged car, had to deal with bad decisions from his team, and all this without being able to talk to his crew? Yeah, he was lucky... I don't say he is the best driver cause it's hard to tell. But to be a champion you don't have to be fast only. You have to work with your team and have to be smart. I already said he did a good job, why don't you admit that his race should have ended at turn four from a collision he caused? Bad decisions from the team? There is a saying, "It is better to be lucky than good". Vettel is both, don't get so upset when someone points it out. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On November 26 2012 22:37 baldgye wrote: So your both of the opinion that button is better than Lewis, despite the fact that Lewis was faster all weekend? And despite having an extra stop, was ahead of both button and nico... Vettel would destroy button in an 'even' fight. Ahead despite more stops? He was 45 seconds behind, after more stops. Then he got the safety car. Button was destroying Hamilton in the damp conditions. Hamilton might have been faster outright in the dry, but in the conditions on the day, Button was so far ahead it's not even funny. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On November 26 2012 22:40 Pandemona wrote: No, im the biggest Hamilton fan here. Hands down he is the best driver on the grid, even better than Alonso (imo). But Button had that race won not for the SC is what im saying. Hammy would of won AFTER the SC bunched the pack back up, if it wasn't for back markers, and a reckless Nico sliding into him. Even fight, Button wins vs Vettel, Vettel has not shown to me what a good racing driver he is. He has only won/overtaken mass amount of people when his car is superior to the others. If Vettel makes it 4WDC out of 4 then i will give him credit for being a world class, top level driver. Until then, i just see him as a lucky boy. If Alonso had won, it would only be because his teammate made massive sacrifices. You wouldn't see Webber ever being anywhere near as compliant as Massa has been, especially towards the end of the season when Massa has had real pace and had to sacrifice for Alonso. | ||
zere
Germany1287 Posts
Especially the first rain phase was the rain was not that bad; no one who chose intermediates gained upon the ones who stayed out on slicks, intermediates were not the #1 choice in that situation and they cost them dearly until the SC came to the rescue | ||
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Aristodemus
England1993 Posts
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
Do you really think Hamilton would be able to realistically challenge for the title given a red bull? | ||
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baldgye
United Kingdom1092 Posts
On November 27 2012 01:56 Klive5ive wrote: This was by far Vettels best championship win - the other 2 were trivial. This time he didn't have the runaway best car and had to fight hard and keep it calm and controlled under a lot of pressure. He's got better and proven himself among the top 5 best drivers on the grid. lmao.... what | ||
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baldgye
United Kingdom1092 Posts
On November 27 2012 03:29 greggy wrote: Do you really think Hamilton would be able to realistically challenge for the title given a red bull? yup... and 'vastly' over-rated? He would have won the DWC in his rookie year if it wasn't for his team mate, and lost out on it by a single point, beating his team mate, two time world champion and the current greatest all-round driver currentally in F1... and then in his second year winning the title.. That's something pretty amazing, since then alot has changed, alot of rules and the amazing growth of F1's best team and one of the turly great teams, RedBull. Vettel is an amazing driver, as is Alonso and Lewis, but this season would have been alot closer (with Lewis) had Mclaren not ruined his fist half with horrible pit-stops and then ruined his second half of the season with reliability problems. Lewis this season got more poles than anyone else, and when Vettel had one of the fastest cars, that shows just how good a driver he is, and just how fast he is. On November 27 2012 02:40 zere wrote: That's also true for Hulk, but that doesn't mean they both 'destroyed' him. Especially the first rain phase was the rain was not that bad; no one who chose intermediates gained upon the ones who stayed out on slicks, intermediates were not the #1 choice in that situation and they cost them dearly until the SC came to the rescue yeah Nico showed that that his pole in 2010 wasn't a fluke and that in changable conditions he's very quick in Brazil! | ||
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1Dhalism
862 Posts
On November 26 2012 17:46 Pandemona wrote: Yeah didn't have the best car by a mile again....and still out performed in qualifying by better drivers in worst cars... This year should of seen the end of Red Bull's dominance and it should be a good interesting competitive season next year. Alonso not on pole=shit car. Vettel not on pole=shit driver. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
On November 27 2012 05:10 1Dhalism wrote: Alonso not on pole=shit car. Vettel not on pole=shit driver. Pretty much yeah. | ||
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