EPT[wow] Mists of pandaria - Page 67
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The NA-based TL WoW guild has been set: it is being formed on Cenarius as alliance. Talk to farvacola if you want more info! Add yourself to the player list! Use this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434775 for Warlord of Draenor discussion please! | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On October 15 2012 23:34 Judicator wrote: Did you not read Serejai's posts? These issues were pointed out in Beta, the fact that they're still treading lightly shows you how slow Blizzard moves. Blizzard for the most part has always been slow to fix non-game exploiting issues historically. A few things about that. One, I don't know of any other gaming company that updates their games anywhere near as fast as Blizzard does. On top of that, we're talking about WoW, this is an absolutely ridiculously large and complicated game, especially from a technical standpoint. Also, not everything the community says is an issue, actually IS an issue. Everyone has their own views and opinions on what is balanced and what makes a game fun/better. Not trying to come off as a fanboy or anything but sometimes I think Blizzard gets shit for absolutely no reason. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
On October 16 2012 01:33 awesomoecalypse wrote: I finally ran some scenarios. The first one I lucked into Tank-Healer-DPS, and it was absurdly easy. Like, easier than levelling via questing. The second one though, we got 3 dps, and one left immediately. So it was just my mage and a hunter, and it actually ended up being pretty fun in terms of requiring smart positioning and lots of crowd control. I am quite confident that triple dps is the best for all scenariors no question. particularly healers are completely irrelevant, i would allways ask them if they had a dps spec. Anyways, they are really easy in any case but more damage makes them get over faster. I dont really see the point of them though beyond doing the Arena one when you first hit 90 for the free blue weapon. P.S. I disagree almost categorically, with everything Serinja said about pvp and arena. Some of the specifics are ok, ie. BM warriors mages do way the hell too much burst; but he sensationalizes the hell out of it. As someone who has played wow pretty consistently SOLELY for arena since s2 imo this season is significantly better as far as fundamentals go then the first seasons of last two expansions imo. Totally fixable. The single biggest fundamental issue was not resetting mmr. Also, as someone who frequents AJ regularly and Im pretty sure has read allmost every post on there since expansion he kind of misrepresents that too. lol. At the higher levels you see mostly pretty decent games. The midrange mmrs are pretty fucked up though because of aforementioned burst. Also, the comment about reckful's stream "1200mmr with horrible gear" is quite evidence enough that he has no fucking clue what he is talking about and is just trying to be a downer. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On October 16 2012 02:24 Atreides wrote: I am quite confident that triple dps is the best for all scenariors no question. particularly healers are completely irrelevant, i would allways ask them if they had a dps spec. Anyways, they are really easy in any case but more damage makes them get over faster. I dont really see the point of them though beyond doing the Arena one when you first hit 90 for the free blue weapon. P.S. I disagree almost categorically, with everything Serinja said about pvp and arena. Some of the specifics are ok, ie. BM warriors mages do way the hell too much burst; but he sensationalizes the hell out of it. As someone who has played wow pretty consistently SOLELY for arena since s2 imo this season is significantly better as far as fundamentals go then the first seasons of last two expansions imo. Totally fixable. The single biggest fundamental issue was not resetting mmr. Also, as someone who frequents AJ regularly and Im pretty sure has read allmost every post on there since expansion he kind of misrepresents that too. lol. At the higher levels you see mostly pretty decent games. The midrange mmrs are pretty fucked up though because of aforementioned burst. Also, the comment about reckful's stream "1200mmr with horrible gear" is quite evidence enough that he has no fucking clue what he is talking about and is just trying to be a downer. So I link a 12-page thread full of multi-glads and rank 1s all agreeing that this season is one of the worst to date and needs a major overhaul from the ground up... and you refute it by saying "at the higher levels you see mostly pretty decent games" based on nothing at all but your opinion (which you state numerous times in your post that everything you say is simply opinion). Yet then you proceed to run your mouth off and talk shit at the end. I fail to see how your opinions that PvP is fine based on the fact that you read forums and watch streams is somehow more valid that the opinion of myself (a multi-glad, multi-rank 1 player) and the opinion of dozens and dozens of other multi-glads based on personal experience at gladiator-level ratings. Could you please explain? Judging by your name calling and apparent anger you had when writing your post I'm going to assume you just want to troll or something. Thankfully I'm confident that most TLers here are competent enough to read the threads I linked and form their own opinions on the matter; hence why I linked them. Perhaps a few people like yourself will read a twelve-page that's 95% full of people who think PvP is in need of some serious help and go "Well, it looks like everything is perfect this season!" but I'm fairly certain that will be a minority. By all means though, you're probably right. I just came here to lie and cheat the TL community with false information and whatnot. I'm such a shady fellow and I'm always looking for another way to screw over this community. In fact, I only post on these forums when I'm in the mood to make everyone feel miserable and disappointed. PS - I love debates. I really do. But can the next person who wants to defend the current state of PvP at least provide something factual to back up their claims other than name calling and opinions? I'd love to have a serious discussion. | ||
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
-Former Rank 1 Mage, Glad DK, Glad Warlock, Glad Priest, Glad Shaman. Currently playing one of the worst MoP classes, Monk. | ||
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EAGER-beaver
Canada2799 Posts
On October 16 2012 03:29 PanzerKing wrote: Only played a few arenas, but PvP as a whole is pretty awful this expansion. CC is out of control and casters will dominate the rest of this season. Right now people are complaining about warriors and BM hunters, but there's 2 reasons for that: 1. Their burst is high and is in the process of getting nerfed and 2. They have CC immunity. By the middle to the end of this season, you're going to see caster teams dominating hardcore. -Former Rank 1 Mage, Glad DK, Glad Warlock, Glad Priest, Glad Shaman. Currently playing one of the worst MoP classes, Monk. Monks are fine in arena, just go mistweaver with a warrior and hunter friend who never had their mmr reset. Once you hit 2400 mmr stop playing for the rest of the season. Bam, easy glad title as a monk. | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On October 16 2012 04:19 Irre wrote: I just think WoW pvp is fundamentally flawed. There are far too many abilities and cooldowns now, and many abilties aren't really suited to an arena/small scale pvp setting. They have homogenized the classes to the point where everything is now just a spam of abilities that either negate each other or counter each other. I just came back to playing my priest after a few years(I quit PVP after getting r1 in s7), and I was amazed how they have just turned the game into an endless spam of cooldowns to the point where you ALWAYS have something up. It had to happen to some extent due to the expansions keep adding abilities and certain things getting redesigned like dispel system. Basically, if you can stand playing the game like that its fine, but its silly to pretend its a true competitive game with some high skill cap. Blizzard have even stated they don't really care about making it a competitive title, more just balanced enough to be fun to play. ( Source i believe is from some event where the devs discussed pvp in D3 and WoW from a while back). It's been that way pretty much since WotLK came out. There's always some cooldown to get you out of every situation as long as you play correctly and don't have to blow 2 in a row. I preferred S1-S3, but then again I played a warlock, who were pretty much negated by DKs for a season and a half. | ||
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AimlessAmoeba
Canada704 Posts
MoP has only been out for a couple weeks and I already feel as though I'm burning out. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On October 16 2012 06:23 AimlessAmoeba wrote: Pretty sure I'm going blind from running dailies... And once you hit revered with GL/Klax they give you MOAR. MOAR I SAY. And they say that you "only have to do what you want to do" but if you want to get geared to raid with your guild you have no choice -_- MoP has only been out for a couple weeks and I already feel as though I'm burning out. Look at it this way: It beats farming mobs for random drops while wearing a shitty trinket (fuck you Argent Dawn). | ||
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NotAPro
Canada146 Posts
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On October 16 2012 06:29 NotAPro wrote: Why would you bother with GL/Klaxxi past revered? Plus all the VP gear will be irrelevant when the next raid comes out. You'll still be doing those dailies, even a year from now. You're forced to grind them for the Elder Charms unless you want to gimp yourself and your raid group. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On October 16 2012 06:26 deth2munkies wrote: Look at it this way: It beats farming mobs for random drops while wearing a shitty trinket (fuck you Argent Dawn). Disagree on this. In theory the quests should be more enjoyable because they rotate and whatnot but in reality they're so poorly designed that they're actually more tedious and boring than simply grinding mobs is. Disregarding that there's another major flaw; Grinding was at my own pace. If I wanted to knock out an entire rep in a single day I could. I could set aside ten hours, turn some music on, stack my desk with drink and chips then go to town. At the end of the day I got what I wanted and never had to do it again. With dailies you can't do that. If I have ten hours in a day and I want to grind my rep up for Enchanting patterns or VP gear or even a mount... I can't. I'm limited to about 15-30 minutes per day and after I finish I get to sit on my ass in Org and wait until they reset. This forced gating tends to make dailies stressful for a lot of people (myself included). I'm all for rep grinds - I want the game to take effort again like it did in vanilla and TBC. However, I don't want Blizzard telling me how much effort I can put it at a time. That just annoys me and makes things feel repetitive. One of the selling points for MoP was that Blizzard was going to make the content less linear and provide more methods to reach the same goals. They failed terribly at this and in actuality did the exact opposite. So I completely agree with the first post. If I do ten hours of grinding in a day I feel much, much, much less burnt out that when I'm being forced to split it up into 15 minutes a day over the span of a month (and yes, the daily quests are literally just grinding with some "lore" attached). | ||
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Thorakh
Netherlands1788 Posts
One of the selling points for MoP was that Blizzard was going to make the content less linear and provide more methods to reach the same goals. They failed terribly at this and in actuality did the exact opposite. So much this. I thought we would get choice in MoP. Well, we didn't. It's either do the damn dailies every fucking day or lose out on recipes, gear, vanity rewards and mats.Horrible design by Blizzard. | ||
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Leth0
856 Posts
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Deadlyhazard
United States1177 Posts
Vanilla PvP was best but only because world pvp was extremely common and people couldn't entirely escape a situation by just flying up high in the air. You could always find someone. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On October 16 2012 06:45 Serejai wrote: Disagree on this. In theory the quests should be more enjoyable because they rotate and whatnot but in reality they're so poorly designed that they're actually more tedious and boring than simply grinding mobs is. Disregarding that there's another major flaw; Grinding was at my own pace. If I wanted to knock out an entire rep in a single day I could. I could set aside ten hours, turn some music on, stack my desk with drink and chips then go to town. At the end of the day I got what I wanted and never had to do it again. With dailies you can't do that. If I have ten hours in a day and I want to grind my rep up for Enchanting patterns or VP gear or even a mount... I can't. I'm limited to about 15-30 minutes per day and after I finish I get to sit on my ass in Org and wait until they reset. This forced gating tends to make dailies stressful for a lot of people (myself included). I'm all for rep grinds - I want the game to take effort again like it did in vanilla and TBC. However, I don't want Blizzard telling me how much effort I can put it at a time. That just annoys me and makes things feel repetitive. One of the selling points for MoP was that Blizzard was going to make the content less linear and provide more methods to reach the same goals. They failed terribly at this and in actuality did the exact opposite. So I completely agree with the first post. If I do ten hours of grinding in a day I feel much, much, much less burnt out that when I'm being forced to split it up into 15 minutes a day over the span of a month (and yes, the daily quests are literally just grinding with some "lore" attached). I just wholeheartedly disagree. I cannot stand sitting in a particular place killing mobs for no real reason other than hope for random drops. I burned myself out on that during Vanilla and just couldn't do it after a bit of BC. The thing I DID like was that there were little neat "mini dungeons" you could explore. Slaughterhouses in Plaguelands usually had some sort of elite/rare/quest mob at the bottom that you could fight your way to. I enjoyed setting those little challenges for myself, exploring looking for challenging mobs. The rise of Thottbott/alakazam/wowwiki/wowhead kinda took a lot of that out of the equation, but it's still something that you COULD do before dailies became the norm. The good part about dailies is that you can plot out exactly how long it's going to take you to do something so you're on a more regular "reward schedule" and it doesn't feel like an endless grind where you can get shat on by the RNG and only get 20 scourgestones in 2 hours. I don't have MoP, but I recall from cata, 25 dailies took 2-2 1/2 hours to beat per day (including competition for/respawning mobs, travel times, and having a suboptimal PvE farming spec because you're raid spec), it could be significantly faster or slower depending on a few factors. I'd rather do that once a day while chatting on Vent or listening to music or something then be able to make my own fun by raiding/PvP/doing SOMETHING and know that by doing it for X days I'll be done, rather than spending those 2 hours grinding random mobs hoping I scrounge up enough random drops to make the time worth it and not knowing how much longer it will take. | ||
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Farad
216 Posts
On October 16 2012 07:49 Leth0 wrote: WoW pvp stopped being good as soon as people and blizzard started taking it seriously. Pre-BG roaming <3 | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On October 16 2012 08:29 deth2munkies wrote: I just wholeheartedly disagree. I cannot stand sitting in a particular place killing mobs for no real reason other than hope for random drops. I burned myself out on that during Vanilla and just couldn't do it after a bit of BC. The thing I DID like was that there were little neat "mini dungeons" you could explore. Slaughterhouses in Plaguelands usually had some sort of elite/rare/quest mob at the bottom that you could fight your way to. I enjoyed setting those little challenges for myself, exploring looking for challenging mobs. The rise of Thottbott/alakazam/wowwiki/wowhead kinda took a lot of that out of the equation, but it's still something that you COULD do before dailies became the norm. The good part about dailies is that you can plot out exactly how long it's going to take you to do something so you're on a more regular "reward schedule" and it doesn't feel like an endless grind where you can get shat on by the RNG and only get 20 scourgestones in 2 hours. I don't have MoP, but I recall from cata, 25 dailies took 2-2 1/2 hours to beat per day (including competition for/respawning mobs, travel times, and having a suboptimal PvE farming spec because you're raid spec), it could be significantly faster or slower depending on a few factors. I'd rather do that once a day while chatting on Vent or listening to music or something then be able to make my own fun by raiding/PvP/doing SOMETHING and know that by doing it for X days I'll be done, rather than spending those 2 hours grinding random mobs hoping I scrounge up enough random drops to make the time worth it and not knowing how much longer it will take. Well see that's the problem. I would rather spend 10 hours at once to grind my rep and you would rather spend an hour at a time spread over ten sessions to do the same. Now, that's the fundamental issue with MoP. Blizzard claimed this expansion was all about choices and being open and yet it's extremely linear. Players like myself are forced to do dailies we don't want to do. Why not have rep tabards for people who want to grind heroics? Why not have a Runecloth-style repeatable quest for people who want to grind their rep? Mists of Pandaria is pretty much the exact opposite of what vanilla was. While vanilla catered to hardcore/grinding players who could get ahead by spending more time upfront doing something Mists of Pandaria caters to people who want to take it slow and steady and break up their playtime into chunks. Again, there's nothing wrong with how dailies currently are in the expansion if you look at them as a standalone feature. What makes them a terrible design decision is that they are forced on players who don't want to do them. For an expansion that's all about choice and multiple paths... this part of the game is 100% no choice and linear. They need to add alternative options for Charms (since these are basically required to raid) and to a lesser extent rep and tradeskill recipes (since these are optional but still something most people will need to an extent). | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On October 16 2012 09:06 Serejai wrote: Well see that's the problem. I would rather spend 10 hours at once to grind my rep and you would rather spend an hour at a time spread over ten sessions to do the same. Now, that's the fundamental issue with MoP. Blizzard claimed this expansion was all about choices and being open and yet it's extremely linear. Players like myself are forced to do dailies we don't want to do. Why not have rep tabards for people who want to grind heroics? Why not have a Runecloth-style repeatable quest for people who want to grind their rep? Mists of Pandaria is pretty much the exact opposite of what vanilla was. While vanilla catered to hardcore/grinding players who could get ahead by spending more time upfront doing something Mists of Pandaria caters to people who want to take it slow and steady and break up their playtime into chunks. Again, there's nothing wrong with how dailies currently are in the expansion if you look at them as a standalone feature. What makes them a terrible design decision is that they are forced on players who don't want to do them. For an expansion that's all about choice and multiple paths... this part of the game is 100% no choice and linear. They need to add alternative options for Charms (since these are basically required to raid) and to a lesser extent rep and tradeskill recipes (since these are optional but still something most people will need to an extent). Not having rep tabards is pretty damn indefensible after Cata. That was what made the grind bearable, you could always be getting several things done at once. It shouldn't be a surprise that casuals are retaining their place as the main focus of the expansion, though, as it's been that way since WotLK when Blizz realized that the massive majority of the playerbase played less than 4 hours a week. | ||
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