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On December 02 2015 20:40 iXphobos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 18:59 Roggay wrote:
He should take example on Thorin on that matter as Thorin really doesnt care all that much about people hating him.
@Djzapz: That's why i think he's a bad journalist. Yes, he doesn't care about the the hate, he embraces it. That's why he keeps hating and shitting on stuff he doesn't like in his notorious way. There's nothing wrong with stating your professional opinion, but do it in a professional way. I think Thorin is a perfect example why e-sports journalism isn't taken seriously. "It's just some nerds talking gaming stuff and making internet jokes while wearing suits with headphones" - E-Sports journalism 2015
I don't think not caring about the haters and "hating" is somehow related.
There is a big difference between constructive criticism and hate messages. Learning how to ignore hate messages is something you have to learn when you get famous or you'll get wrecked by it like RL. You just can't care about them / respond to them.
Also, I really don't know why people act like e-sports journalism has to be taken seriously or w/e. Who cares, you enjoy the content or you do not and you don't consume it, that's really all there is to it. Why bring big words like "professional" in it? It's not like we are trying to make it to ESPN, we don't need that. I really like guys like Thorin because there is passion instead of that bland "professionalism" that people seem to worship. Fuck that, I'd rather disagree with someone with character than listen to the same thing over and over again because they are professional.
And yes I know you can be professional and have character/be interesting, but I'm exagerating for the sake of the argument.
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France9034 Posts
Yeah, Thorin on a desk is guaranteed not-funny and too-long jokes, a propensity to completely shadow other analysts (I loved having YNk and Maniac), and please, keep the troll for twitter, it's not funny during LANs.
RL is fine on a desk, but yeah, expect to have to handle cases like what happened at DH Winter...
I really prefer RedEyE as a host for CS:GO events.
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On December 02 2015 21:28 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 20:40 iXphobos wrote:On December 02 2015 18:59 Roggay wrote:
He should take example on Thorin on that matter as Thorin really doesnt care all that much about people hating him.
@Djzapz: That's why i think he's a bad journalist. Yes, he doesn't care about the the hate, he embraces it. That's why he keeps hating and shitting on stuff he doesn't like in his notorious way. There's nothing wrong with stating your professional opinion, but do it in a professional way. I think Thorin is a perfect example why e-sports journalism isn't taken seriously. "It's just some nerds talking gaming stuff and making internet jokes while wearing suits with headphones" - E-Sports journalism 2015 Also, I really don't know why people act like e-sports journalism has to be taken seriously or w/e. Who cares, you enjoy the content or you do not and you don't consume it, that's really all there is to it. Why bring big words like "professional" in it? It's not like we are trying to make it to ESPN, we don't need that. I really like guys like Thorin because there is passion instead of that bland "professionalism" that people seem to worship. Fuck that, I'd rather disagree with someone with character than listen to the same thing over and over again because they are professional.
I agree.
I mean it's not like Thorins lack of professionalism is the only thing that's holding e-sports back from becoming really big. xD
If we start talking about (non-) professionalism in the e-sports scene we're in some serious trouble.^^
I like watching the analyst desk as it is, even if Thorin sometimes goes full retard. 
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France9034 Posts
On December 02 2015 21:28 Roggay wrote:
Also, I really don't know why people act like e-sports journalism has to be taken seriously or w/e. Who cares, you enjoy the content or you do not and you don't consume it, that's really all there is to it. Why bring big words like "professional" in it? It's not like we are trying to make it to ESPN, we don't need that. I really like guys like Thorin because there is passion instead of that bland "professionalism" that people seem to worship. Fuck that, I'd rather disagree with someone with character than listen to the same thing over and over again because they are professional.
And yes I know you can be professional and have character/be interesting, but I'm exagerating for the sake of the argument.
When you are at the point where people are trusting you for what you say, you have the responsibility of not saying bullshit. To me, professionalism is all about that, respecting the trust of the people that listen to / watch you, and respecting the persons / structures you talk about in that regard, because you are a leader of opinion. And thus you have the responsibility not to mislead opinion.
Everything else has nothing to do with professionalism I'd say. Verify your source(s), don't tell or spread bullshit, and that's enough for me. All the rest is a matter of opinion or preference I would say.
That's why I don't like Thorin, but I wouldn't say he's a bad "journalist". I sometimes feel he's not on point, but that can happen to anyone. I still really like his videos and some of his interviews, just hate him on the desk. The only "lack of professionalism" I'd maybe point out for him is that you have to let everyone talk on the desk, just because you've been hired by an event organiser, just as well as the guys next to you, and they've been hired for a reason, so let them talk. And I feel he fails at letting people express themselves comfortably and feel confident but not awkward, except RL. But even that is debatable and I wouldn't say this is the only reasonable way to think about this issue.
Other than that last point, that's just my personal preference, I don't like him.
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On December 02 2015 20:31 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 05:46 Kipsate wrote:
The NA article made me realize something, why is it that despite CIS having such a monstrous amount of people playing that there is no superteam in CIS either(I don't count VP). Natus Vincere is the closest we get but they are always consistently tier 1.5(Lets say they are about G2 level). A region with that size should be able to produce a superteam much like the Swedish or the Danish but we don't see it.
Guardian has to carry that shit on his shoulders(does a pretty damn good job at it)but thats not enough, I thought Flamie would bring what was needed but they still fail to beat T1 teams, they can upset in Bo1s but very rarely will they beat others in Bo3.
Ideal CIS Lineup: - GuardiaN - flamie - S1mple - seized - Edward - starix (coach and 6th man IGL) Thing is, s1mple already wrecks that lineup by how he behave... Also, I'd want to think about a more consistent player to switch with Edward, but sadly can't think of any... :< Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 08:36 Djzapz wrote:On December 02 2015 08:16 iXphobos wrote:
Thorin is a great CS analyst but an absolutely horrible journalist.
Too bad he mostly considers himself to be the latter. There's essentially not a single good video game journalist, as far as I can tell. Why would you say Thorin is a horrible journalist, though, out of curiosity? That there isn't a single good video game journalist doesn't mean you shouldn't expect there should be and give a free pass to bad ones :p
FTFY :p
Ideal CIS Lineup:
- GuardiaN
- flamie
- S1mple
- seized
- AdreN
- Zeus (coach and 6th man IGL)
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France9034 Posts
Zeus < starix as an IGL :<
I love AdreN, but still think he's not on the level of Edward.
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Been doing rather good in MM so I thought I would test out playing faceit and now I no longer think I was getting decent at the game. Holy fuck I got destroyed in all 3 placement matches I played, for instance, I peek around a corner to get some info BAM bullet between the eyes.
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On December 02 2015 21:19 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 11:49 amazingxkcd wrote:
rumors of FPL in NA are surfacing. Anyone want to grind Faceit with me in premium to get to masters? sure why not
you, me, and yamato: Road to FPL
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Hyrule19259 Posts
And I'm building my new PC as well so hopefully I won't get random bluescreens anymore.
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On December 02 2015 20:31 Ragnarork wrote:
That there isn't a single good video game journalist doesn't mean you shouldn't expect there should be and give a free pass to bad ones :p
Was just wondering why he'd be singled out.
On December 02 2015 20:40 iXphobos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2015 18:59 Roggay wrote:
He should take example on Thorin on that matter as Thorin really doesnt care all that much about people hating him.
@Djzapz: That's why i think he's a bad journalist. Yes, he doesn't care about the the hate, he embraces it. That's why he keeps hating and shitting on stuff he doesn't like in his notorious way. There's nothing wrong with stating your professional opinion, but do it in a professional way. I think Thorin is a perfect example why e-sports journalism isn't taken seriously. "It's just some nerds talking gaming stuff and making internet jokes while wearing suits with headphones" - E-Sports journalism 2015
I think your position is insanely shortsighted. The problem with journalism as a profession in the modern world is that even outside of gaming, is that journalists deal with conflicts of interests. Increasingly, journalists have their hands bound, they don't have full freedom to write any story they want - the network doesn't want to offend X or Y executive, or stakeholders, or investors, or companies which advertise on their outlet.
By turning his back, hell, by antagonizing people, Thorin proves that at least in those way he's a lot more credible, a lot more legitimate than the sea of spineless scum who call themselves journalists while making a constant effort not to offend.
Thorin is the OPPOSITE of why e-sports journalism isn't taken seriously. Videogaming in general is not taken seriously because everyone is a paid shill, or someone who's so bound by office politics they only write bullshit pieces. Thorin is childish and I'd much rather have a legit honest yet competent man-child writing articles than some dude who cynically writers top5 lists and easy page-long rags.
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France9034 Posts
I really wonder why Thorin has articles on www.goldper10.com and not on a personal website if he's so independant...
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11589 Posts
On December 03 2015 06:35 Ragnarork wrote:I really wonder why Thorin has articles on www.goldper10.com and not on a personal website if he's so independant...
Strictly speaking, he probably gets paid more than he would if he was simply making money off of page views on his own website. Freelance doesn't mean completely independent; he's written for other websites as well during this time and it allows him to promote his own brand rather than a brand like OnGamers as he did previously.
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On December 03 2015 06:35 Ragnarork wrote:I really wonder why Thorin has articles on www.goldper10.com and not on a personal website if he's so independant...
Freelance journalists write articles for outlets, that's what being an independent journalist is. If a journalists wrote for his own website, he'd become a blogger. Generally speaking a journalist will have other people check his work which is why you basically don't have any credible journalists (in any domain) writing on their own website. When they do, they fully recognize that what they're doing is not a "solo journalist outlet", it's a blog.
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On December 03 2015 08:27 Djzapz wrote:Freelance journalists write articles for outlets, that's what being an independent journalist is. If a journalists wrote for his own website, he'd become a blogger. Generally speaking a journalist will have other people check his work which is why you basically don't have any credible journalists (in any domain) writing on their own website. When they do, they fully recognize that what they're doing is not a "solo journalist outlet", it's a blog.
I dont think at this point your going to convince someone who doesnt like Thorin about his credibility in whatever respect its being doubted. Thorin is as Thorin does either you like him/dont mind him or you dislike him and whatever your bias you will find reasons to support that.
For me hes fine, he knows the game hes been around forever and is generally correct. Hes abrasive and can get a little overbearing but thats perfectly fine with me since hes eloquent enough.
Same goes for RL. I dont care for him in a journalistic capacity, couldnt care less but hes a good host and does a decent job. Whatever drama he might be associated with doesnt matter 2 licks to me I dont have twitter and I dont read his articles. It takes more than 1 person to create drama anyway
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On December 03 2015 09:23 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2015 08:27 Djzapz wrote:On December 03 2015 06:35 Ragnarork wrote:I really wonder why Thorin has articles on www.goldper10.com and not on a personal website if he's so independant... Freelance journalists write articles for outlets, that's what being an independent journalist is. If a journalists wrote for his own website, he'd become a blogger. Generally speaking a journalist will have other people check his work which is why you basically don't have any credible journalists (in any domain) writing on their own website. When they do, they fully recognize that what they're doing is not a "solo journalist outlet", it's a blog. I dont think at this point your going to convince someone who doesnt like Thorin about his credibility in whatever respect its being doubted. Thorin is as Thorin does either you like him/dont mind him or you dislike him and whatever your bias you will find reasons to support that. For me hes fine, he knows the game hes been around forever and is generally correct. Hes abrasive and can get a little overbearing but thats perfectly fine with me since hes eloquent enough. Same goes for RL. I dont care for him in a journalistic capacity, couldnt care less but hes a good host and does a decent job. Whatever drama he might be associated with doesnt matter 2 licks to me I dont have twitter and I dont read his articles. It takes more than 1 person to create drama anyway
I don't think people are generally going to be convinced by anything, so yeah since my argument was not the embodiment of wisdom and brilliance, it probably didn't move anybody. I get that Thorin is a like him/don't like him type of figure but then again some folks just are pretty blind to the character he plays and how he's intentionally abrasive. I feel like if some folks understood that he's (by design) kind of a caricature of what he hates in the community, they might get to find him less irritating.
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guys,
I'm a longtime CS player, since 1.6 days. I've played CS:GO before (120 hours on file).
anyway, I'm just coming back again. how do people enjoy this game nowadays? just join a pub?
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France9034 Posts
Basic way is to play MM soloQ, but can be meh. YMMV
Other than that, there's alternative ladders, like Faceit, ESEA, that kind of stuff.
Or you can join the TL groups, I think NA has a lively community as well as Europe, able to do at least 5-man quite often. 10-man scrim is a bit of a stretch though, but might happen.
On December 03 2015 08:27 Djzapz wrote:Freelance journalists write articles for outlets, that's what being an independent journalist is. If a journalists wrote for his own website, he'd become a blogger. Generally speaking a journalist will have other people check his work which is why you basically don't have any credible journalists (in any domain) writing on their own website. When they do, they fully recognize that what they're doing is not a "solo journalist outlet", it's a blog.
I can get behind your argument, yeah. Just that I don't look down on a blog as much I would say, this is still a perfect way to express oneself, even though as you mention, there's no dedicated review process (though usually, for that kind of celebrity, on the few blogs I've read, they often ask for reviews from other persons as well...). But I can get that it doesn't bring much money if you want to live off that... :<
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oh what there's matchmaking solo queue now? like MMR?
wow... been away for so long lol. dota 2 got my heart that's why
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Canada4481 Posts
On December 03 2015 19:07 trinxified wrote:
oh what there's matchmaking solo queue now? like MMR?
wow... been away for so long lol. dota 2 got my heart that's why
You say you've played a lot of 1.6, idk if any of it was competitive. But MM is basically 5v5 (somewhat) league rules. Defuse on the good ol maps of d2/inferno/mirage/cbble, etc. It's fun and interesting in the beginning, then you realize how toxic/annoying/bad/cocky/non-talkative people are, and never want to solo queue MM ever again.
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EPT
