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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On September 23 2011 01:30 qrs wrote: a3's been refuted several times; it gives Black a pawn. If you mean Rxb2 then it does not directly give black a pawn as you can Qxc6+ and get the pawn back. If there are losses they are later on not because of Rxb2. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:46 mcc wrote: Fair enough; I spoke too quickly. It doesn't actually lose a pawn.+ Show Spoiler +If you mean Rxb2 then it does not directly give black a pawn as you can Qxc6+ and get the pawn back. If there are losses they are later on not because of Rxb2. It still gives Black a positional advantage imo, though. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:01 TehForce wrote: I think a3 is bad because + Show Spoiler + 11. a3 Nxd2 (-> Now we have to immidiatly capture the knight back because of the double-check option ..Nxf3+ which would be a disaster for us) 12. Bxd2 Bxd2+ + Show Spoiler + Capturing the Bishop is even worse: 12. axb4 Nxf3+ 13. gxf3 Now we have 2 double pawns and black can still save his pawn 13. .. Bd7 14. Qxa7 is also no option anymore because we would lose a rook with 14. ..Ra8 13. Nxd2 Now black can defend his pawn and we are still not castled yet Vote for Qxc6+ + Show Spoiler + The line I am thinking is not 11.a3 Nxd2 12.Bxd2, but 11.a3 N(B)xd2 12.Nxd2 N(B)xd2 13.Bxd2 and after that black can Rxb2 or defend his pawn. Yes we have equal pawns and we did not castled yet, but if he defends his pawn we can castle if need be and if not we can take it for equal pawns. I know that 11.Qxc6+ gains (at least in short term) a pawn, I just do not like where it leads after that, that is why I am trying to explore a3. | ||
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RandomAccount#49059
United States2140 Posts
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:54 qrs wrote: Fair enough; I spoke too quickly. It doesn't actually lose a pawn.+ Show Spoiler + It still gives Black a positional advantage imo, though. + Show Spoiler + That is what I am not so sure about. After Rxb2 we can Qxc6+, Qd7 Qc3(1) he has to go away with the rook and we can castle and are in reasonably good position I feel. After Qxc6+ Bd7 it is more open but Qxd5 seems possible although I did not check all his possibilities in that scenario and some seem threatening, but ut still seems ok. If instead of Rxb2 he plays something to save one of his pawns there are many possibilities, but the position seems ok for us on the first glance. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On September 23 2011 03:13 mcc wrote: + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler + That is what I am not so sure about. After Rxb2 we can Qxc6+, Qd7 Qc3(1) he has to go away with the rook and we can castle. Rxb2 Qxc6+ Qd7 Qc3 Qb5 | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Ok, the rook stays  I would see it like Qc3 Qb5 a4 a) Qb6-8 0-0 b) Qb3 Qc6+ and it becomes interesting ? | ||
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MrStorkie
United Kingdom697 Posts
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On September 23 2011 05:22 mcc wrote: OK, I have to admit I don't have much here. Looks fairly even.+ Show Spoiler + Ok, the rook stays I would see it like Qc3 Qb5 a4 a) Qb6-8 0-0 b) Qb3 Qc6+ and it becomes interesting ? | ||
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FishForThought
Canada88 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:25 qrs wrote: OK, I have to admit I don't have much here. Looks fairly even. Rxb2, Qxc6, Qd7, Qc5 (to prevent Castling on the black side), Ba6 (to prevent us from castling), Bc3 (threaten rook), Rb5 (to threaten our queen), Qxa7 (threaten his back row and his bishop).. thats how i see it would turn out. edit: actually he'll probably go: Rxb2, Qxc6, Qd7, Qc5 (to prevent Castling on the black side), Ba6 (to prevent us from castling), Bc3 (threaten rook), Re6+, MCC's moves might be better. | ||
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Ng5
702 Posts
Give me some time to update everything. | ||
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Ng5
702 Posts
nitdkim wrote: omg, thread quality is 10/10. those graphs in OP so good! Thank you. | ||
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Ng5
702 Posts
I planned to wait a little anyway. Cheers. Hmmm... Sometimes I really want to make some game-related comments, but I really shouldn't. Well maybe when all is said and done. But I'm really proud of all the work you've been doing. I'm sure you've found many-many good and tricky lines during your evals. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On September 23 2011 13:24 Ng5 wrote: Ha, it's ok. I'll take it easy. Next move or two is pretty forced anyway.Everything is updated. I will give you guys one or two days of rest or else qrs will burn out and we don't want that, do we? | ||
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keyStorm
Canada316 Posts
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mastergriggy
United States1312 Posts
 Oh well haha not that I'm whining or anything. I'm gonna assume that he'll play Qd7, and start analyzing from there.Edit: Some analysis 11... Qd7 and then: + Show Spoiler + 12. Qxd7 Bxd7 (I guess black can play Kxd7 which might be better since there isn't really a need to castle anymore), then if 13. a3 Bxd2 14. Nxd2 Nxd2 15. Kxd2 I think we can hold our pawn and it isn't as bad for our Bishop as it looks (16. Kc3/c2). The only issue here is that we have to be very careful how we trade as opposite colored Bishop's tend to negate extra pawns . 13. 0-0 is interesting as it forces black's knight to react or give himself a pawn that's incredibly weak. It does have a line that returns the pawn but it doesn't look the best for black: 13...Nxd2 14. Nxd2 Bxd2 15. Bxd2 then 15...Rxb2 16. Rab1 Rxb1 (not Rxd2? 17. Rb8+) 17. Rxb1 looks good for white. 15...0-0 16. b3 Rb5 (to break center pawn) 17. Rac1 Rc8 18. b4 looks good for white. 15...Bb5 16. Rfc1 c6 (if he plays a passive move like Rc8, move f pawn and then king toward center) 17. Bb4 Bc4 18. Ba3 looks good for white (white will get tempo back since black needs to use a turn to move the king) There is also Ke7 which looks decent for black, but he is a pawn down and I white will have an advantage, (a bit too tired to analysis it). 12. Qc2 (white's only other non losing move) Ba6 13. oh god this looks bad for white I'm gonna just go with Qxd7 for our next move. | ||
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Ng5
702 Posts
So the move is. 11... Qd7 The official 12th round started right here. A little more than three days. Cheers! | ||
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EvilNalu
United States91 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + All the lines relevant to this move have been discussed and I am convinced we want to avoid 12. Qc2 Ba6. We should spend the time for this move trying to figure out our 13th move after the likely 12...Bxd7, keeping in mind the fact that black might conceivably play 12...Kxd7. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I have analyzed this move, and I see nothing wrong with it. We keep all our pieces, go a pawn up, and are in a good position to still be able to castle on our king's side. What's not to love? | ||
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EvilNalu
United States91 Posts
On September 26 2011 08:50 Bill Murray wrote: 12. Qc2 + Show Spoiler + I have analyzed this move, and I see nothing wrong with it. We keep all our pieces, go a pawn up, and are in a good position to still be able to castle on our king's side. What's not to love? + Show Spoiler + After 12...Ba6 we will never castle kingside. Now maybe you think we will still be OK but don't say we can castle kingside. And, if you think we will be OK without kingside castling, please point out how you plan to respond to black's threats of Qb5 and Qg4 as discussed by jd/qrs above. | ||
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