Was surprised that a thread hasn't been made for the main event yet. If anybody has been wondering what Kiwikaki has been up to lately, he's been rocking it at the WSOP.
Some chip counts after Day 1 of notable players or members of TL (I can edit in more if you guys recognize names but I only know of a few of the more obvious names).
Breaking Down the Berlin Wall Jonathan Garneau, a legend among the StarCraft 2 community (I'm more of a Portal 2/Total War fan myself) has managed to double up to over 300,000 after he was all in with against Nachman Berlin's .
The board came , Berlin crippled and left with 100,000 as a result.
On July 16 2011 17:28 motbob wrote: A short analysis of Kiwi's table tomorrow.
Mimi Luu has 57,000 chips and a healthy list of tournaments that she's placed in this year. She doesn't have many chips, though, so she's likely to be a non-factor.
Steve Brecher has 973,000 chips. He's incredibly experienced, with a very long career (although that's not always a good thing these days) and he won a million dollar top prize two years ago at a WPT event. He seems to be the main threat at KiWiKaKi's table, given his chip count.
Joseph Lacarrubba has 196,000 chips. As far as I can tell, he's a complete no-name.
Christopher Moore has 350,000 chips. He's experienced in the area of live tournaments, with his top win at ~$80,000.
Robert Kolbe has 483,000 chips. He seems like another no-name. I think KiWiKaKi will be happy to have someone with seemingly little experience, but many chips, to his right.
Jonathan Garneau, our hero, has 260,000 chips.
Paul Chauderson has 599,000 chips. KiWiKaKi will not be happy to see this man to his left. He plays in a great deal of live tournaments and places pretty well in them! If Kiwi gets knocked out tomorrow, this guy has as good a chance of anyone of doing it.
Tyler Sumrall has 147,000 chips. He has some experience and some good tournament places, but he doesn't have enough chips to be a big force at the table.
Thomas Pedersen has 671,000 chips. He doesn't have much live tournament experience; he's pretty much a mystery. He has a lot of chips, though. Let's hope those chips make their way into KiWi's stack.
Kiwikaki - 520k as of ~5:00 PM EST Kiwikaki - 600k as of ~7:00 PM EST
Kiwikaki has busted out at about 8:15 PM EST Garneau's Big Slick Doesn't Connect
We found a preflop all in showdown between Jonathan Garneau and Robert Kolbe. Garneau held AKo and Kolbe had QQ. The board ran 7J8 3 4 and Garneau had the long walk to the payouts office.
If anyone else has word on current/former members of TL or the Starcraft community and would like to have it editted into the OP, post on this thread, and lets start up a discussion and cheer for our communities players who are currently doing quite well :D
Big credits to Grettin for finding and posting the .pdf that list the seat arrangements and chip counts for the next day~
Cutsss - Ludovic Lacay ElkY - Bertrand Grospellier Mig - James Mackey Rekrul - Daniel Schreiber sTrAtO - Francisco Rios Vallej
LP.net players who advanced past day 2A
FrinkX - Evan McNiff - 179,800 (started the day with 21,400) Kiwikaki - Jonathan Garneau - 143,000 (started the day with 94,100) PoorUser - Stephen Costello - 140,300 (started the day with 28,100) teej1985 - Thomas Bentham - 54,400 (started the day with 66,800)
On July 13 2011 14:19 FearTheReaperMan wrote: It is still going on ? I thought it ended awhile ago. I was just watching it on espn and people were already at 1-10 mil.
You were probably watching episodes from last year. Right now it is just day 2b. The tourney runs something like 10 days or so. Generally they will reach the money on day 4.
On July 13 2011 14:19 FearTheReaperMan wrote: It is still going on ? I thought it ended awhile ago. I was just watching it on espn and people were already at 1-10 mil.
You were probably watching episodes from last year. Right now it is just day 2b. The tourney runs something like 10 days or so. Generally they will reach the money on day 4.
LOL yeah i was. Just looked it u. GL to kiwi, I feel something good for him.
Fayth had a really great run last year, and also split a small % with Duhamel who ended up winning. Kiwikaki seems to be making a good run this year though, I really hope he does well.
That's where Kiwi went :p Good luck to the all the people from our community! I'll have to be sure and watch this when its aired to see if Kiwi gets on any xD
Doyle is hardly a notable player at this day and age. If you want notables that are out, Tom Dwan is out and thats the real big name.
Also I editted it that its 30k starting chips ;o my bad. I don't want to directly C&P Liquid Pokers info, that would seem like plagiarizing, I'm more focused on the direct SC2/TL members than former BW/LP members.
On July 13 2011 16:08 eltese wrote: To bad that Fayth and Rekrul are out =) Kinda funny I knew who those guys were before I got into starcraft =) Same thing with elky :D
Gl Kiwi
I knew Elky but not Fayth and Rekrul, actually found out about Fayth through that long-ass CombatEX interview. :p
Hopefully Kiwi can become as big a name in poker as in SC2 through this.
On July 13 2011 16:48 Zlasher wrote: Doyle is hardly a notable player at this day and age.
I've played pro (while a student) for nearly 8 years now and have played WSOP events and all that jazz. Doyle is a legend and is one of the top 3 names at the tournament. There are few people more universally respected by players than him.
On July 13 2011 16:48 Zlasher wrote: Doyle is hardly a notable player at this day and age.
I've played pro (while a student) for nearly 8 years now and have played WSOP events and all that jazz. Doyle is a legend and is one of the top 3 names at the tournament. There are few people more universally respected by players than him.
He's also still quite good.
Yes he's respected.
No he's not that good. You realize he never plays NLHE anymore because he can't compete against the new age anymore lol. The only NLHE he plays is the world series every year, he plays mixed games and stud even if the legendary quote is that he said its "the only pure game left"
On July 13 2011 16:48 Zlasher wrote: Doyle is hardly a notable player at this day and age.
I've played pro (while a student) for nearly 8 years now and have played WSOP events and all that jazz. Doyle is a legend and is one of the top 3 names at the tournament. There are few people more universally respected by players than him.
He's also still quite good.
Yes he's respected.
No he's not that good. You realize he never plays NLHE anymore because he can't compete against the new age anymore lol. The only NLHE he plays is the world series every year, he plays mixed games and stud even if the legendary quote is that he said its "the only pure game left"
AFAIK he still plays in the biggest game in the world, where he is profitable, so I'm not sure how he can be considered "not good". Who cares that he's not one of the best in NLHE specifically?
If i understood right, they are streaming featured table 1 with Ben Lamb and Table 2 with Daniel Negreanu.
they might spotlight him on the floor if he gets in an interesting position or knocks someone out later in the tournament.
I seriously doubt it. There is so many tables. Unless he get's moved to the featured table or something, and i'm not sure is it even possible in main event.
If i understood right, they are streaming featured table 1 with Ben Lamb and Table 2 with Daniel Negreanu.
they might spotlight him on the floor if he gets in an interesting position or knocks someone out later in the tournament.
I seriously doubt it. There is so many tables. Unless he get's moved to the featured table or something, and i'm not sure is it even possible in main event.
If i understood right, they are streaming featured table 1 with Ben Lamb and Table 2 with Daniel Negreanu.
they might spotlight him on the floor if he gets in an interesting position or knocks someone out later in the tournament.
I seriously doubt it. There is so many tables. Unless he get's moved to the featured table or something, and i'm not sure is it even possible in main event.
On July 15 2011 05:17 soul5 wrote: Ok I know nothing about poker, but I'm interested in this is there a site where a can keep up to date like who has the most chips?
Doyle is certainly still good compared to an average poker player, but definitely no longer world class. If he plays the biggest cash he is a decent dog these days in nlh and the mixed games. But in most tournaments and smaller cash he would still have an edge.
But regardless of Doyle's skill he is still easily one of the most notable players. When Dwan busts nobody really notices, when doyle busts the main there is an announcement and everyone there gives him an applause. There is no question that as long as Doyle plays he will always be considered a notable player.
On July 15 2011 06:14 Mig wrote: Doyle is certainly still good compared to an average poker player, but definitely no longer world class. If he plays the biggest cash he is a decent dog these days in nlh and the mixed games. But in most tournaments and smaller cash he would still have an edge.
But regardless of Doyle's skill he is still easily one of the most notable players. When Dwan busts nobody really notices, when doyle busts the main there is an announcement and everyone there gives him an applause. There is no question that as long as Doyle plays he will always be considered a notable player.
The average poker player is f'ing terrible though lol. Doyle is a notable player in terms of name but not play if you ask me. He's no real threat to win the main event any more in my opinion
On July 15 2011 06:14 Mig wrote: Doyle is certainly still good compared to an average poker player, but definitely no longer world class. If he plays the biggest cash he is a decent dog these days in nlh and the mixed games. But in most tournaments and smaller cash he would still have an edge.
But regardless of Doyle's skill he is still easily one of the most notable players. When Dwan busts nobody really notices, when doyle busts the main there is an announcement and everyone there gives him an applause. There is no question that as long as Doyle plays he will always be considered a notable player.
The average poker player is f'ing terrible though lol. Doyle is a notable player in terms of name but not play if you ask me. He's no real threat to win the main event any more in my opinion
Didn't doyle win a WPT tournament last year or 2 years ago? I remember watching it but don't recall when it was.
On July 15 2011 05:49 Samp wrote: no updates on kiwi?
cant find his name on the WSOP site
So it looks like he's out!?
As Zlasher said, they can't keep count all the time, maybe not till end of the day. Theres hundreds of players left, and alot of tables as you can imagine.
On July 15 2011 06:14 Mig wrote: Doyle is certainly still good compared to an average poker player, but definitely no longer world class. If he plays the biggest cash he is a decent dog these days in nlh and the mixed games. But in most tournaments and smaller cash he would still have an edge.
But regardless of Doyle's skill he is still easily one of the most notable players. When Dwan busts nobody really notices, when doyle busts the main there is an announcement and everyone there gives him an applause. There is no question that as long as Doyle plays he will always be considered a notable player.
The average poker player is f'ing terrible though lol. Doyle is a notable player in terms of name but not play if you ask me. He's no real threat to win the main event any more in my opinion
He's still better than half the guys that have won the ME this decade.
When you are playing a tournament with 7000 people in poker no one is a "real" threat to win the tourney. And anyway it is dumb to try and list people as notable by using just skill. Because the vast majority of people don't know who the real favorites are anyway. The only people who really know are the ones who play consistently with these players.
For example someone like Dwan who is a monster at cash has a ton of major flaws in his tournament game. There are a lot of guys who are just tournament specialists who had a bigger edge than he did in this tournament. Dwan is a better overall poker player than most of them but that doesn't make him the best for this event.
Best players left who have large chip stacks
Mike Sowers Justin Bonomo Sorel Mizzi David Baker Sam Stein Patrik Antonius Jon Van Fleet Blair Hinkle
There's a bunch of other good players left who are shorter but these guys would probably be the best combination of skill/chips left in the tourney and should be considered the favorites in the tourney right now.
Say what you will but Cheong is a great player whether its live, online, cash games, or tournaments. I'm not saying he's a favorite but I'm saying he's one of the better players left in the field. Nobody can really be a true favorite in this event obviously.
Cheong just moved up about doubling his chip stack and moving from 50th to 11th in chips.
Cheong is fine. But before last years main event he was probably barely even a top 100 online mtt player. He gets a big score in 1 tourney and suddenly he gets a ton of hype. He spews way way too much when he is deep stacked. So he can run over bad players but against other good pros they abuse his over aggression.
On July 15 2011 08:49 Mig wrote: Cheong is fine. But before last years main event he was probably barely even a top 100 online mtt player. He gets a big score in 1 tourney and suddenly he gets a ton of hype. He spews way way too much when he is deep stacked. So he can run over bad players but against other good pros they abuse his over aggression.
He was a fairly solid player before and after the main event.
And his over aggression is pretty signature of all young players lol
If i understood right, they are streaming featured table 1 with Ben Lamb and Table 2 with Daniel Negreanu.
they might spotlight him on the floor if he gets in an interesting position or knocks someone out later in the tournament.
I seriously doubt it. There is so many tables. Unless he get's moved to the featured table or something, and i'm not sure is it even possible in main event.
Open utg with KJhh with 21 bbs. Retard flats sb. Flop 8h7h2x. He chk raises I shove he snaps it off with 89ss. Turn 2h river 2c
then again I got on TV last year from eliminating phil galfond and I wasn't on a featured table, could happen to kiwi, it's as long as you bust a player who gets a lost of media attention
On July 15 2011 08:49 Mig wrote: Cheong is fine. But before last years main event he was probably barely even a top 100 online mtt player. He gets a big score in 1 tourney and suddenly he gets a ton of hype. He spews way way too much when he is deep stacked. So he can run over bad players but against other good pros they abuse his over aggression.
He was a fairly solid player before and after the main event.
And his over aggression is pretty signature of all young players lol
naw, people considered me maniac at the tables in ME and I don't play anywhere near as agressive as cheong, i mean come on u dont 6 bet bluff ur whole stack like he did last year on final table hahah (my friend was freerolling 10 000$ from a bet with someone else that cheong would 6bet bluff, takechip had to pay)
On July 15 2011 08:49 Mig wrote: Cheong is fine. But before last years main event he was probably barely even a top 100 online mtt player. He gets a big score in 1 tourney and suddenly he gets a ton of hype. He spews way way too much when he is deep stacked. So he can run over bad players but against other good pros they abuse his over aggression.
He was a fairly solid player before and after the main event.
And his over aggression is pretty signature of all young players lol
naw, people considered me maniac at the tables in ME and I don't play anywhere near as agressive as cheong, i mean come on u dont 6 bet bluff ur whole stack like he did last year on final table hahah (my friend was freerolling 10 000$ from a bet with someone else that cheong would 6bet bluff, takechip had to pay)
Well, I mean I'm not saying that he's not a very aggressive player, I guess I just don't want to define him by that one hand. Surely you know more about his playstyle than I do though so I guess I can't really go on about it haha, I do like his play though overall (that is, only from what I've seen though).
yeah he is good, but like mig said he's overagressive, he's gonna run over bad players but he doesn't seem to know when to slow down against players who pick up on that
Do you feel like he's learned his lesson since last year though? I mean surely that move in hindsight has been downloaded by him. Do you feel like he's just become more solid or is he prone to doing that to himself again this year?
On July 15 2011 15:38 GetToDaChopa wrote: Day 3 just ended. How's Kiwi doing?
At Day 3 dinner break, he had 320k and then he updated Fayth and said he won a big pot with Aces and is at 450k chips. Can't find him from the list, so hard to say exactly.
If by some stroke of luck he gets far into the tournament to where they take interviews it's going to be great. 'and what do you do for a living?' -- 'i play starcraft' +500 esports fame
On July 15 2011 17:28 GetToDaChopa wrote: If by some stroke of luck he gets far into the tournament to where they take interviews it's going to be great. 'and what do you do for a living?' -- 'i play starcraft' +500 esports fame
Seriously that would be awesome exposure, which is why I hope he busts Vanessa Rousso lol, since she's probably the biggest "name" on that table.
Expanding more on this. If he makes it to the final table.... Who's going to support him??? with cheerfulls??? This-could-be-great! noone will understand what all the people with the white cardboard signs reading, 'kiwikaki hwaiiittttingggg' means. but we will. we will....!
On July 15 2011 17:51 One Page Memory wrote: what are the blinds at this moment? also gl kiwikaki
Level Info Level 14 Blinds1,500 / 3,000 Ante 400
Average Chip Stack 241,725
wow, so kiwi is well above the average. he has a really good position to reach the money spots! how much does the last money spot get? is there a list somewhere?
On July 15 2011 17:51 One Page Memory wrote: what are the blinds at this moment? also gl kiwikaki
Level Info Level 14 Blinds1,500 / 3,000 Ante 400
Average Chip Stack 241,725
wow, so kiwi is well above the average. he has a really good position to reach the money spots! how much does the last money spot get? is there a list somewhere?
Place 693 pays out 19,359$. Theres 852 players left.
On July 15 2011 17:51 One Page Memory wrote: what are the blinds at this moment? also gl kiwikaki
Level Info Level 14 Blinds1,500 / 3,000 Ante 400
Average Chip Stack 241,725
wow, so kiwi is well above the average. he has a really good position to reach the money spots! how much does the last money spot get? is there a list somewhere?
There's a prize list on the WSOP site, the lowest 2 tiers are 19k and 21k, 1st place gets over 8 million.
He's around the 75th percentile chip wise so he's in decent shape, but it is poker and a lot of these players left are online pros so don't bank on anything.
i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
On July 13 2011 16:48 Zlasher wrote: Doyle is hardly a notable player at this day and age.
I've played pro (while a student) for nearly 8 years now and have played WSOP events and all that jazz. Doyle is a legend and is one of the top 3 names at the tournament. There are few people more universally respected by players than him.
He's also still quite good.
Yes he's respected.
No he's not that good. You realize he never plays NLHE anymore because he can't compete against the new age anymore lol. The only NLHE he plays is the world series every year, he plays mixed games and stud even if the legendary quote is that he said its "the only pure game left"
You don't have an understanding of the current poker scene, sorry. The reason he plays so many mixed games is cause mixed games are where the best money and action are at right now. The game at the Aria and some of the more private, high stakes mixgames are incredibly juicy. If you want to make a living as a nosebleed pro live these days, you have to play mixed and you have to play it well. I did some interviews with Daniel N and Shaun Deeb a couple months ago breaking down the live mixed game/high stakes game pretty well. You should be able to google em if you are interested. It's fascinating stuff how the game has evolved from the NLHE craze post-Moneymaker era.
On July 15 2011 07:47 Zlasher wrote: Say what you will but Cheong is a great player whether its live, online, cash games, or tournaments. I'm not saying he's a favorite but I'm saying he's one of the better players left in the field. Nobody can really be a true favorite in this event obviously.
Cheong just moved up about doubling his chip stack and moving from 50th to 11th in chips.
Cheong got moved directly to my left very deep in a WSOP event last year. I have never had a player in a live tournament ever make my day a living hell so quickly as Cheong did. He had an incredible game sense and played with reckless abandon. I recall storming off during a break to call a friend and vent about this kid they moved to my left making me tilt so bad. I don't think I've ever done that before in a live donkament. His play on the WSOP FT was so sick. Lots of respect for him.
You couldn't even ship it light back over him when you knew he was stealing or re-stealing because he had no qualms about overjamming deep.
Anyone know the current/next blind level? Want to know how many BB's they have left. Also cool to see Kiwi at Vanessa Rousso's table (I used to have Venessa's picture (with cap + shades and all) as avatar when I rocked micro stakes at PStars :D).
On July 15 2011 18:32 Shinobi1982 wrote: Anyone know the current/next blind level? Want to know how many BB's they have left. Also cool to see Kiwi at Vanessa Rousso's table (I used to have Venessa's picture (with cap + shades and all) as avatar when I rocked micro stakes at PStars :D).
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
Some people don't make it their goal to make 19k on a 10k buyin.
On July 15 2011 18:32 Shinobi1982 wrote: Anyone know the current/next blind level? Want to know how many BB's they have left. Also cool to see Kiwi at Vanessa Rousso's table (I used to have Venessa's picture (with cap + shades and all) as avatar when I rocked micro stakes at PStars :D).
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
yeah
a pro poker player exploits the hell out of people playing extremely safe until in the money
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
Wow that's so wrong :D. The mistake of all (read most) beginners in MTT's. If you have that attitude then you are either playing at a level way above your bankroll or you are a very easy exploitable fish (no offense) :D.
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
On July 13 2011 16:48 Zlasher wrote: Doyle is hardly a notable player at this day and age.
I've played pro (while a student) for nearly 8 years now and have played WSOP events and all that jazz. Doyle is a legend and is one of the top 3 names at the tournament. There are few people more universally respected by players than him.
He's also still quite good.
Yes he's respected.
No he's not that good. You realize he never plays NLHE anymore because he can't compete against the new age anymore lol. The only NLHE he plays is the world series every year, he plays mixed games and stud even if the legendary quote is that he said its "the only pure game left"
What do you mean he's not that good? You mean, he can't play 16 tables of .25/.50 nlhe for a profit? He didn't sign up to play durrrr for 50,000 hands of 4-tabling $200/$400 hu nlhe?
He never plays nlhe anymore? Do you mean besides from all the hsp and pad episodes he's been on? What constitutes a new age player? Someone who made their bankroll online during the poker boom? Just because you made millions playing online doesn't mean you have the slightest chance of walking away with anything but the shirt on your back from a live cash game.
Doyle's 15 game televised cash game win streak recently ended. Isn't that enough proof to say that he can compete with internet players on his turf, in live cash games?
You can't name 9 players alive today who can beat Doyle at hold'em.
Like someone else in this thread pointed out, the big money in Vegas isn't in nlhe, it's in mixed games. So that's what the best play. That's what Doyle plays.
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
that's great man. good strategy.
this wil get u in the money with a shitstack and u wil never be able to make it far for the real moneys
On July 15 2011 17:28 GetToDaChopa wrote: If by some stroke of luck he gets far into the tournament to where they take interviews it's going to be great. 'and what do you do for a living?' -- 'i play starcraft' +500 esports fame
Well afaik Kiwi has been playing poker for a living for a while now and Starcraft is more of a side hobby for him. Also I believe Rekrul has a WSOP HU bracelet, Hevad Khan has made a WSOP ME final table, BigBalls (Ryan Daut) has won a WPT, mig had some big scores as well and obviously Elky is very famous with several titles to his name. So Starcraft players are already pretty well known in the poker scene and TL/SC has been mentioned in interviews plenty of times. I'm sure I'm forgetting some other players as well. Anyways, GL Kiwi!
If he gets into top 50 or so, he'll have earned more money in this tournament than anyone in SC2 has as of now. Also, it looks like he's currently already out...
On July 15 2011 20:39 Ciryandor wrote: If he gets into top 50 or so, he'll have earned more money in this tournament than anyone in SC2 has as of now. Also, it looks like he's currently already out...
I wonder why people keep posting without reading a single post above or previous page.
Gl Kiwi. After years of watching the WSOP I'm glad to see people that you can "relate" to play in the actual thing. I hope to play it at least once in my lifetime just for the experience when $10k doesn't mean so much.
On July 15 2011 20:39 Ciryandor wrote: If he gets into top 50 or so, he'll have earned more money in this tournament than anyone in SC2 has as of now. Also, it looks like he's currently already out...
I wonder why people keep posting without reading a single post above or previous page.
He wasn't on the list provided on the previous page on the WSOP website's chip count list. @_@ Tried searching for his name there.
On July 15 2011 20:39 Ciryandor wrote: If he gets into top 50 or so, he'll have earned more money in this tournament than anyone in SC2 has as of now. Also, it looks like he's currently already out...
I wonder why people keep posting without reading a single post above or previous page.
He wasn't on the list provided on the previous page on the WSOP website's chip count list. @_@ Tried searching for his name there.
On July 15 2011 17:28 GetToDaChopa wrote: If by some stroke of luck he gets far into the tournament to where they take interviews it's going to be great. 'and what do you do for a living?' -- 'i play starcraft' +500 esports fame
Well afaik Kiwi has been playing poker for a living for a while now and Starcraft is more of a side hobby for him. Also I believe Rekrul has a WSOP HU bracelet, Hevad Khan has made a WSOP ME final table, BigBalls (Ryan Daut) has won a WPT, mig had some big scores as well and obviously Elky is very famous with several titles to his name. So Starcraft players are already pretty well known in the poker scene and TL/SC has been mentioned in interviews plenty of times. I'm sure I'm forgetting some other players as well. Anyways, GL Kiwi!
yeah elky was actually in the running to make player of the year till he busted out in the main event..
He said in a few interviews in the past that he played for about 3 years and then slowed down severely when SC2 came out because he got kinda bored with Poker. That said he must have still dabbled once in a while, and something like the WSOP is something he felt he might as well enter lol. I don't think he treats SC2 as a side to Poker though, I guess they just go hand in hand somewhat.
July 14th 3pm ET Day 3 July 14th 7pm ET Day 3 July 15th3pm ET Day 4 July 15th 7pm ET Day 4 July 15th 11:00pm ET Day 4 July 16th 3:30pm ET Day 5 July 17th 12:00am ET Day 5 July 17th3:00pm ET Day 6 July 17th10:00pm ET Day 6 July 18th 3:00pm ET Day 7 July 18th7:00pm ET Day 7
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
this is not good
can u keep us up to date with kiwis progress through the day? im sure many of us would appreciate it
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
On July 16 2011 03:34 geez wrote: kiwi has 330k and has vanessa rousso sitting at his table, decent chance we catch him on the stream for a second, especially if he busts her!
They will most likely stream the same way they did yesterday, so two featured tables - not every single table wheres action/popular players. :-)
On July 16 2011 03:34 geez wrote: kiwi has 330k and has vanessa rousso sitting at his table, decent chance we catch him on the stream for a second, especially if he busts her!
They will most likely stream the same way they did yesterday, so two featured tables - not every single table wheres action/popular players. :-)
right, but they like to show rousso now and then, so if she busts they might show that
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
Please come to my table; I'm happy to steal your blind and 3-bet you all in every time.
On July 15 2011 18:22 Enox wrote: i'm not a pro poker player at all, but when im in situations like this, i play extremely safe till im in the money. even if it means that i fold every hand. there's nothing more devastating than leaving a tournament a few spots before the money
Please come to my table; I'm happy to steal your blind and 3-bet you all in every time.
-.- like i said, im not pro, not even very good. i play micro stakes for fun and im happy when im in the money. often my goal is just to reach the money so i get my buyin back
RealKidPoker Daniel Negreanu My best table draw thus far. None of my opponents have any tournament wins or any significant cashes. Hope I can take advantage.
On July 16 2011 04:22 Denzil wrote: Poker's a weird spectator sport when people can't see the cards. It's almost like playing Starcraft with the fog of war on everything.
That's true, but it also helps not being result-oriented. I think I learn more watching without the cards than when we see them
On July 16 2011 04:58 rekul wrote: im watching stream wtf they are not showing cards?!
stream cheating is easy for pros with a social network of assistants scouting online. phil helmuth was said to have admitted to this. Your very question was answered in the broadcast of the european wsop, and afterward they cited the phil helmuth tactic.
On July 16 2011 04:58 rekul wrote: im watching stream wtf they are not showing cards?!
stream cheating is easy for pros with a social network of assistants scouting online. phil helmuth was said to have admitted to this. Your very question was answered in the broadcast of the european wsop, and afterward they cited the phil helmuth tactic.
how did they get him the info in real time? I mean this is a huge change making watching rly hard. Card cams is what got poker as a mainstream tv show.
On July 16 2011 04:58 rekul wrote: im watching stream wtf they are not showing cards?!
stream cheating is easy for pros with a social network of assistants scouting online. phil helmuth was said to have admitted to this. Your very question was answered in the broadcast of the european wsop, and afterward they cited the phil helmuth tactic.
how did they get him the info in real time? I mean this is a huge change making watching rly hard. Card cams is what got poker as a mainstream tv show.
A lot of players have headphones and listening to musics. Not sure if iphone is allowed, but with iphone cheating could be done very easy. Also someone could mod the mp3 player as a one-way radio? So they can get updates from their "partner" to get an edge,
I think it is more interesting to watch poker without knowing the cards, it is more educational as well.
On July 16 2011 04:58 rekul wrote: im watching stream wtf they are not showing cards?!
stream cheating is easy for pros with a social network of assistants scouting online. phil helmuth was said to have admitted to this. Your very question was answered in the broadcast of the european wsop, and afterward they cited the phil helmuth tactic.
how did they get him the info in real time? I mean this is a huge change making watching rly hard. Card cams is what got poker as a mainstream tv show.
It just can't be done live. Only time it had been done there was cheating (there's a case in tribunal right as we speak in France). You just have to have a partner in the audience who makes signs while watching the live broadcast.
phil_hellmuth phil_hellmuth Here on Day Four of the WSOP Main Event, I'm at featured table, which is being shown "Live" now on ESPN III. 870 players left, 680 get paid
he tweated that while he was sitting at the table so cheating would be really easy. i dont think there is a delay on TV boradcasts
On July 16 2011 05:11 Enox wrote: phil_hellmuth phil_hellmuth Here on Day Four of the WSOP Main Event, I'm at featured table, which is being shown "Live" now on ESPN III. 870 players left, 680 get paid
he tweated that while he was sitting at the table so cheating would be really easy. i dont think there is a delay on TV boradcasts
There's a 30minute delay. Daniel Negraneu said yesterday he was getting calls from his family watching telling him what hands his opp had(30mins later).
On July 16 2011 05:11 Enox wrote: phil_hellmuth phil_hellmuth Here on Day Four of the WSOP Main Event, I'm at featured table, which is being shown "Live" now on ESPN III. 870 players left, 680 get paid
he tweated that while he was sitting at the table so cheating would be really easy. i dont think there is a delay on TV boradcasts
There's a 30minute delay. Daniel Negraneu said yesterday he was getting calls from his family watching telling him what hands his opp had(30mins later).
All the hands shown on TV are the hands he saw himself. And from what I got, the broadcast with all hands visible is hours and hours later. (Correct me if it's wrong but this is what I got from the commentators yesterday.)
On July 16 2011 04:58 rekul wrote: im watching stream wtf they are not showing cards?!
stream cheating is easy for pros with a social network of assistants scouting online. phil helmuth was said to have admitted to this. Your very question was answered in the broadcast of the european wsop, and afterward they cited the phil helmuth tactic.
how did they get him the info in real time? I mean this is a huge change making watching rly hard. Card cams is what got poker as a mainstream tv show.
I think it is more interesting to watch poker without knowing the cards, it is more educational as well.
I would definitely agree if they showed both hands at the end and not just the winning one.
On July 16 2011 05:23 zaii wrote: anyone know whats Kiwis twitter?
He does not have one.
9 Minutes ago update from WSOP KiwiKaki is at a table with a few top poker pros including the chick Vanessa Rousso she is up like 150k today she might be stealing kiwi's chips o.O
Action folded around to the player on the button who counted out a raise of 9,000. The player in the small blind quickly called and it was on Vanessa Rousso in the big blind. Rousso calmly counted out a stack of chips and pushed them out into the middle.
Rousso's three-bet made the action 28,000 total and action was back around to the original raiser on the button. The button player had a look of severe frustration on his face. "I guess it's up to you," he said to the small blind as he mucked his hand. The player in the small blind folded as well and Rousso took the pot down, so far having a good showing here on Day 4.
On July 16 2011 05:30 m0s1n0 wrote: Would be very, very cool seeing KiWiKaKi winning a lot.
Did not know that he is playing professional. Does someone of you has some information about earlier events KiWiKaKi attended succesfully?
dunno about events but earlier in this thread someone said kiwi won around 500k from poker so far
hmm sounds really interesting, so Kiwi may has the possibility to play Starcraft 2 only on second stage^^
he said in different interviews already that he doesnt play sc2 for the money but for the fun and the competition. he also said that he will go back to poker if he runs out of cash cause its "easy money"
On July 16 2011 03:34 geez wrote: kiwi has 330k and has vanessa rousso sitting at his table, decent chance we catch him on the stream for a second, especially if he busts her!
They will most likely stream the same way they did yesterday, so two featured tables - not every single table wheres action/popular players. :-)
right, but they like to show rousso now and then, so if she busts they might show that
Maybe during the actual production event, but not on the live stream.
On July 16 2011 04:58 rekul wrote: im watching stream wtf they are not showing cards?!
stream cheating is easy for pros with a social network of assistants scouting online. phil helmuth was said to have admitted to this. Your very question was answered in the broadcast of the european wsop, and afterward they cited the phil helmuth tactic.
how did they get him the info in real time? I mean this is a huge change making watching rly hard. Card cams is what got poker as a mainstream tv show.
A lot of players have headphones and listening to musics. Not sure if iphone is allowed, but with iphone cheating could be done very easy. Also someone could mod the mp3 player as a one-way radio? So they can get updates from their "partner" to get an edge,
I think it is more interesting to watch poker without knowing the cards, it is more educational as well.
It's not necessarily that they get the info real time, but they get the info while on breaks, lunc/dinner breaks, etc. and then use the info to read someones ranges.
On July 16 2011 05:30 m0s1n0 wrote: Would be very, very cool seeing KiWiKaKi winning a lot.
Did not know that he is playing professional. Does someone of you has some information about earlier events KiWiKaKi attended succesfully?
dunno about events but earlier in this thread someone said kiwi won around 500k from poker so far
You guys are looking into that number a bit too much. Winnings are just a part of bankroll management, and there are thousands of players online with bankrolls in the millions. Just stay focused on who he is as a person and how his play is as a poker player, instead of looking at some dollar amount that someone spit out
On July 16 2011 05:23 zaii wrote: anyone know whats Kiwis twitter?
He does not have one.
9 Minutes ago update from WSOP KiwiKaki is at a table with a few top poker pros including the chick Vanessa Rousso she is up like 150k today she might be stealing kiwi's chips o.O
Action folded around to the player on the button who counted out a raise of 9,000. The player in the small blind quickly called and it was on Vanessa Rousso in the big blind. Rousso calmly counted out a stack of chips and pushed them out into the middle.
Rousso's three-bet made the action 28,000 total and action was back around to the original raiser on the button. The button player had a look of severe frustration on his face. "I guess it's up to you," he said to the small blind as he mucked his hand. The player in the small blind folded as well and Rousso took the pot down, so far having a good showing here on Day 4.
Kiwikaki was sitting 3 seats before Rousso so if she was the big blind then Kiwi was not involved in that pot unelss there have been people busting out and open seats.
Nice to see this topic, i'm also watching and ofcourse rooting for kiwi to hopefully get far!! Thx to everyone that is updating, any info is appreciated
On July 16 2011 06:15 Shameless wrote: Nice to see this topic, i'm also watching and ofcourse rooting for kiwi to hopefully get far!! Thx to everyone that is updating, any info is appreciated
On July 16 2011 06:36 leBIGcrab wrote: Might be more educational, but it's boring without cards... They need to find another solution to avoid cheating i think.
It's the webcast, it's supposed to be only for enthusiasts, the actual TV show has cards and all. (I understand what you're saying, it's just that the webcast is not supposed to have all that)
We caught up with the action on in a raised four-way pot.
The flop read {K-Spades}{5-Spades}{3-Clubs} and Vanessa Rousso led out for 22,000. She found one caller from the player in the hi-jack position.
Rousso then check-called a 32,000 bet from her opponent when the {A-Clubs} fell on the turn.
When the {5-Diamonds} completed the board, Rousso led out for 40,000. Her opponent deliberated for a but and then slid out a raise to 110,000 total. Rousso quickly called.
"You're good," her opponent said. Rousso flipped over {A-Hearts}{K-Clubs} and her opponent mucked.
I'm a little worried. She's moved up from liek 250 to almost a mil and one of the leading chipstacks now. Not sure how Kiwikaki's doing now but I hope that wasn't him.
Yeah thats the problem is we don't know if the player in the Vanessa Rousso update was Kiwikaki or not, or if he's been involved with Vanessa's gigantic boost in chips.
On July 16 2011 06:36 leBIGcrab wrote: Might be more educational, but it's boring without cards... They need to find another solution to avoid cheating i think.
Pretty simple just delay the broadcasting by 30 minutes.
I do not see kiwikaki in the chip updates he may be out not sure though as vanessa has like tripled up today.
On July 16 2011 06:36 leBIGcrab wrote: Might be more educational, but it's boring without cards... They need to find another solution to avoid cheating i think.
Pretty simple just delay the broadcasting by 30 minutes.
I do not see kiwikaki in the chip updates he may be out not sure though as vanessa has like tripled up today.
Do you not get it? If you have a friend tell you peoples hand ranges over yoru dinner break thats a big advantage you'll have for the last 3-4 hours of play, you can't delay it by even 30 minutes.
On July 16 2011 06:36 leBIGcrab wrote: Might be more educational, but it's boring without cards... They need to find another solution to avoid cheating i think.
Pretty simple just delay the broadcasting by 30 minutes.
I do not see kiwikaki in the chip updates he may be out not sure though as vanessa has like tripled up today.
Do you not get it? If you have a friend tell you peoples hand ranges over yoru dinner break thats a big advantage you'll have for the last 3-4 hours of play, you can't delay it by even 30 minutes.
anyone that's still there that can't assign hand ranges should be out soon enough anyway
On July 16 2011 06:36 leBIGcrab wrote: Might be more educational, but it's boring without cards... They need to find another solution to avoid cheating i think.
Pretty simple just delay the broadcasting by 30 minutes.
I do not see kiwikaki in the chip updates he may be out not sure though as vanessa has like tripled up today.
Do you not get it? If you have a friend tell you peoples hand ranges over yoru dinner break thats a big advantage you'll have for the last 3-4 hours of play, you can't delay it by even 30 minutes.
anyone that's still there that can't assign hand ranges should be out soon enough anyway
And you think exact information will hurt or something? Information is information no matter what.
On July 16 2011 06:36 leBIGcrab wrote: Might be more educational, but it's boring without cards... They need to find another solution to avoid cheating i think.
Pretty simple just delay the broadcasting by 30 minutes.
I do not see kiwikaki in the chip updates he may be out not sure though as vanessa has like tripled up today.
Do you not get it? If you have a friend tell you peoples hand ranges over yoru dinner break thats a big advantage you'll have for the last 3-4 hours of play, you can't delay it by even 30 minutes.
For the big players like hellmuth on a big table most people already are aware of how he plays so they should make the feature table optional would be an option so that they could show the cards since people choose to play on the feature table. It is like tom durr he plays such a wide range of hands it would not matter hellmuth is tight everyone knows this etc.
On July 16 2011 06:36 leBIGcrab wrote: Might be more educational, but it's boring without cards... They need to find another solution to avoid cheating i think.
Pretty simple just delay the broadcasting by 30 minutes.
I do not see kiwikaki in the chip updates he may be out not sure though as vanessa has like tripled up today.
Do you not get it? If you have a friend tell you peoples hand ranges over yoru dinner break thats a big advantage you'll have for the last 3-4 hours of play, you can't delay it by even 30 minutes.
For the big players like hellmuth on a big table most people already are aware of how he plays so they should make the feature table optional would be an option so that they could show the cards since people choose to play on the feature table. It is like tom durr he plays such a wide range of hands it would not matter hellmuth is tight everyone knows this etc.
The better exmaple isn't the couple pros who are on TV all the time, but the Mr. Nobody who either bluffed or had it against Phil, and when Phil gets on dinner break he calls up his buddy who said "no you actually were beat on that hand, use the tells you have from that hand for next time".
On July 16 2011 06:36 leBIGcrab wrote: Might be more educational, but it's boring without cards... They need to find another solution to avoid cheating i think.
Pretty simple just delay the broadcasting by 30 minutes.
I do not see kiwikaki in the chip updates he may be out not sure though as vanessa has like tripled up today.
Do you not get it? If you have a friend tell you peoples hand ranges over yoru dinner break thats a big advantage you'll have for the last 3-4 hours of play, you can't delay it by even 30 minutes.
For the big players like hellmuth on a big table most people already are aware of how he plays so they should make the feature table optional would be an option so that they could show the cards since people choose to play on the feature table. It is like tom durr he plays such a wide range of hands it would not matter hellmuth is tight everyone knows this etc.
The better exmaple isn't the couple pros who are on TV all the time, but the Mr. Nobody who either bluffed or had it against Phil, and when Phil gets on dinner break he calls up his buddy who said "no you actually were beat on that hand, use the tells you have from that hand for next time".
Also it lowers the possibility of cheating by _A LOT_
RealKidPoker Daniel Negreanu Yaaaaaaaa!!! Doubled from 60k to 160k AQ vs AT flop A76 turn 6 river Jack. Boo ya.
All nine players at Table 364 have either a Patron or a Jägermeister shot ready to go once the bubble bursts. They all have very healthy stacks, and are ready to toast once hand-for-hand play ends.
My point is that a 30 minute delay will not stop cheating altogether, and that there is no way, contrary to what some peopel ask in the thread, that they would show hole cards for the entertainment of the viewers at home yet, thats what the broadcast is for on ESPN.
Does anyone know when the stream comes back up? ESPN3 seems to indicate 11 pm ET, but that can't be right, given that the commentators said it would be half an hour from about 6 oclock.
Never mind, just had to clear my cache before I refresh ESPN3.
Chip list isn't nearly complete, so that's not really a good indicator (didn't show him for most of yesterday, though he was easily in the range of the list at the end). Best to just wait for an update from Kiwi himself, or someone else who's there and knows him.
On July 16 2011 08:28 Alfalfa wrote: How do this guys have enough money to participate to this event?
It is not that hard to save up $10,000 in a year if you work full-time and live in a one-room apartment on your own. Most people in the WSOP are professional poker players and/or celebrities/other random rich people who just do it for fun.
But as a regular mortal, $10,000 is not that an unreasonable amount of money to save up.
Most players don't have the 10k to buy directly into the event. What most players do is qualify through a smaller tournament known as a Satellite. For those who don't know what a Satellite tournament is, for example 100 players pay 1k and for every 10k in the prize pool a Seat is awarded into the Bigger tournament, in this case the Main event.
There used to be promotional tournaments online where they would give away seats and there was a bunch of different ways you could get in but of course it is not possible for US players anymore since Online poker got shut down for us =(
On July 16 2011 08:28 Alfalfa wrote: How do this guys have enough money to participate to this event?
It is not that hard to save up $10,000 in a year if you work full-time and live in a one-room apartment on your own. Most people in the WSOP are professional poker players and/or celebrities/other random rich people who just do it for fun.
But as a regular mortal, $10,000 is not that an unreasonable amount of money to save up.
Ok, but these guys are progamer, do they earn enough money with that to pay this tournement?
On July 16 2011 08:28 Alfalfa wrote: How do this guys have enough money to participate to this event?
It is not that hard to save up $10,000 in a year if you work full-time and live in a one-room apartment on your own. Most people in the WSOP are professional poker players and/or celebrities/other random rich people who just do it for fun.
But as a regular mortal, $10,000 is not that an unreasonable amount of money to save up.
Ok, but these guys are progamer, do they earn enough money with that to pay this tournement?
Once again, Kiwikaki was a mid stakes grinder for a few years, he's stated in interviews before that money isn't a big worry of his so 10k to spend a weekend in vegas isn't the biggest deal. His 10k comes from Poker, not from Starcraft 2.
Also, that was an awful call by deknijff with A4o against even a guy wtih just 16 bb left.
On July 16 2011 08:28 Alfalfa wrote: How do this guys have enough money to participate to this event?
It is not that hard to save up $10,000 in a year if you work full-time and live in a one-room apartment on your own. Most people in the WSOP are professional poker players and/or celebrities/other random rich people who just do it for fun.
But as a regular mortal, $10,000 is not that an unreasonable amount of money to save up.
Ok, but these guys are progamer, do they earn enough money with that to pay this tournement?
These guys play poker, which is a money game. The good online players can make a (very) nice living simply out of it
Poker table ratings isn't that great of a site for tracking lol, it misses out on a lot. Also, we don't know whats up with Kiwikaki. Vanessa Rousso who was in his table has quadrupled her stack since the beginning of the day, and we don't know how many of those chips came from Kiwikaki.
We probably won't get na update until Kiwikaki himself, or Fayth, posts on here.
I know that kiwi was a poker pro but for the other I didn't know. I tought they were only sc2 pro. So I was wondering how can these guys have 10k to spend for this by simply being sc2 pro. I didn't thought they earn enought money for this with sc2.
On July 16 2011 09:03 Alfalfa wrote: I know that kiwi was a poker pro but for the other I didn't know. I tought they were only sc2 pro. So I was wondering how can these guys have 10k to spend for this by simply being sc2 pro. I didn't thought they earn enought money for this with sc2.
you have to be mentally unstable. I feel sad for u
On July 16 2011 09:03 Alfalfa wrote: I know that kiwi was a poker pro but for the other I didn't know. I tought they were only sc2 pro. So I was wondering how can these guys have 10k to spend for this by simply being sc2 pro. I didn't thought they earn enought money for this with sc2.
From what I know, Kiwi made around 500k from playing mid stakes before he became a SC2 pro. He probly got some of the money from there :p
On July 16 2011 09:03 Alfalfa wrote: I know that kiwi was a poker pro but for the other I didn't know. I tought they were only sc2 pro. So I was wondering how can these guys have 10k to spend for this by simply being sc2 pro. I didn't thought they earn enought money for this with sc2.
On July 16 2011 09:03 Alfalfa wrote: I know that kiwi was a poker pro but for the other I didn't know. I tought they were only sc2 pro. So I was wondering how can these guys have 10k to spend for this by simply being sc2 pro. I didn't thought they earn enought money for this with sc2.
Your head must be hurting right now. Why don't you just enjoy the show.
On July 16 2011 09:03 Alfalfa wrote: I know that kiwi was a poker pro but for the other I didn't know. I tought they were only sc2 pro. So I was wondering how can these guys have 10k to spend for this by simply being sc2 pro. I didn't thought they earn enought money for this with sc2.
2/10
i think he is simply not the most intelligent person ever.
Is it a good idea to send KiWi to the featured tables? Does he face camera pressures well? He has to move to a new table, and make new reads on all the players on the table. It could be an advantage as well..
You're all so bad, if you think i'm not intelligent you're probably when worst then me, stop referring to kiwi, HE WAS A FREAKING POKER PLAYER SO IT'S NORMAL THAT HE HAS THE MONEY. I know that the others probably got their seat by a satellite tournement or something like that. But I mean, i'm a student and for me 10k is a fairly big amount of money and since those guys are sc2 pro and I don't know their income, I was asking if a sc2 player has enough money to participate to this event
I do not think he is still in it but thats just me I guess, but I hope he is. Anyways I tweeted espn.
On July 16 2011 09:25 Alfalfa wrote: You're all so bad, if you think i'm not intelligent you're probably when worst then me, stop referring to kiwi, HE WAS A FREAKING POKER PLAYER SO IT'S NORMAL THAT HE HAS THE MONEY. I know that the others probably got their seat by a satellite tournement or something like that. But I mean, i'm a student and for me 10k is a fairly big amount of money and since those guys are sc2 pro and I don't know their income, I was asking if a sc2 player has enough money to participate to this event
Did you sign up today to troll? and make 5 retarded posts? or u just brain dead?
On July 16 2011 09:25 Alfalfa wrote: You're all so bad, if you think i'm not intelligent you're probably when worst then me, stop referring to kiwi, HE WAS A FREAKING POKER PLAYER SO IT'S NORMAL THAT HE HAS THE MONEY. I know that the others probably got their seat by a satellite tournement or something like that. But I mean, i'm a student and for me 10k is a fairly big amount of money and since those guys are sc2 pro and I don't know their income, I was asking if a sc2 player has enough money to participate to this event
You're not intelligent if you think that everyone at the WSOP is a SC2 player, because that seems to be what you're saying, but honestly at this point it just looks like you're trolling hardcore.
On July 16 2011 09:25 Alfalfa wrote: You're all so bad, if you think i'm not intelligent you're probably when worst then me, stop referring to kiwi, HE WAS A FREAKING POKER PLAYER SO IT'S NORMAL THAT HE HAS THE MONEY. I know that the others probably got their seat by a satellite tournement or something like that. But I mean, i'm a student and for me 10k is a fairly big amount of money and since those guys are sc2 pro and I don't know their income, I was asking if a sc2 player has enough money to participate to this event
Did you sign up today to troll? and make 5 retarded posts? or u just brain dead?
On July 16 2011 09:25 Alfalfa wrote: You're all so bad, if you think i'm not intelligent you're probably when worst then me, stop referring to kiwi, HE WAS A FREAKING POKER PLAYER SO IT'S NORMAL THAT HE HAS THE MONEY. I know that the others probably got their seat by a satellite tournement or something like that. But I mean, i'm a student and for me 10k is a fairly big amount of money and since those guys are sc2 pro and I don't know their income, I was asking if a sc2 player has enough money to participate to this event
someone as intelligent as you can study in the US? wtf?
On July 16 2011 09:25 Alfalfa wrote: You're all so bad, if you think i'm not intelligent you're probably when worst then me, stop referring to kiwi, HE WAS A FREAKING POKER PLAYER SO IT'S NORMAL THAT HE HAS THE MONEY. I know that the others probably got their seat by a satellite tournement or something like that. But I mean, i'm a student and for me 10k is a fairly big amount of money and since those guys are sc2 pro and I don't know their income, I was asking if a sc2 player has enough money to participate to this event
First, those aren't retarded. Second, you just don't understand what I mean, so I'll stop talking vaux you guys aren't enough intelligent to understand ;P
On July 16 2011 09:25 Alfalfa wrote: You're all so bad, if you think i'm not intelligent you're probably when worst then me, stop referring to kiwi, HE WAS A FREAKING POKER PLAYER SO IT'S NORMAL THAT HE HAS THE MONEY. I know that the others probably got their seat by a satellite tournement or something like that. But I mean, i'm a student and for me 10k is a fairly big amount of money and since those guys are sc2 pro and I don't know their income, I was asking if a sc2 player has enough money to participate to this event
Dinner break technically started. Yesterday Kiwikaki posted here during his dinner break, maybe him or Fayth will have an update for us in the next ~2 hours (hopefully, at least)
Awesome so we know that he was at 240k when they got in the money, hopefully he'll run better since he seems to have lost 30% of his stack today. Average stack is now about 360k
Damn, right when I find this thread they go on a 2 hour dinner break =\ Kiwikaki fighting <3
Edit: I can't seem to find Kiwi's name on any of the chip count lists on ESPN or the WSOP website. Can someone link me to a page that actually shows his chip count?
Im sorry I doubted you all and kiwi lol I just could not beleive with vanessa almost up to a million, and no news about him on any post of the many from the star filled table he is at.
Good news is we may get to see him on live TV as after dinner as I bet they will be switching up the feature table now that hellmuth is gone and its a good bet it will be Venessa and David Bach table that kiwi is at.
On July 16 2011 10:00 Muffinman53 wrote: Damn, right when I find this thread they go on a 2 hour dinner break =\ Kiwikaki fighting <3
Edit: I can't seem to find Kiwi's name on any of the chip count lists on ESPN or the WSOP website. Can someone link me to a page that actually shows his chip count?
An accurate chip count of everyones standings won't exist until the end of each day, or once we get down to very few tables left. Right now we're only going on word of mouth and whatever knowledge we can get from credible sources.
On July 16 2011 10:00 Muffinman53 wrote: Damn, right when I find this thread they go on a 2 hour dinner break =\ Kiwikaki fighting <3
Edit: I can't seem to find Kiwi's name on any of the chip count lists on ESPN or the WSOP website. Can someone link me to a page that actually shows his chip count?
An accurate chip count of everyones standings won't exist until the end of each day, or once we get down to very few tables left. Right now we're only going on word of mouth and whatever knowledge we can get from credible sources.
On July 16 2011 10:00 Muffinman53 wrote: Damn, right when I find this thread they go on a 2 hour dinner break =\ Kiwikaki fighting <3
Edit: I can't seem to find Kiwi's name on any of the chip count lists on ESPN or the WSOP website. Can someone link me to a page that actually shows his chip count?
An accurate chip count of everyones standings won't exist until the end of each day, or once we get down to very few tables left. Right now we're only going on word of mouth and whatever knowledge we can get from credible sources.
On July 16 2011 10:00 Muffinman53 wrote: Damn, right when I find this thread they go on a 2 hour dinner break =\ Kiwikaki fighting <3
Edit: I can't seem to find Kiwi's name on any of the chip count lists on ESPN or the WSOP website. Can someone link me to a page that actually shows his chip count?
An accurate chip count of everyones standings won't exist until the end of each day, or once we get down to very few tables left. Right now we're only going on word of mouth and whatever knowledge we can get from credible sources.
But obviously I'm looking at something wrong or the list is incorrect because Kiwi is nowhere to be found D:
Compare how many people's chip counts they have versus how many people still remain in the tournament. Its difficult to know specific chip counts unless the media makes a point of specifically following a player
Interview with Vanessa Rousso (who was at Kiwi's table) from a few hours ago. Doesn't mention Kiwi's name at all, but talks about a few hands he may or may not have been involved in.
You're not reading me correctly nor does it seem like you've read this thread at all.
WSOP and poker news don't have a tracking on EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE FIELD. That is why you see 100 names when there are 550 players left in the field.
Interview with Vanessa Rousso (who was at Kiwi's table) from a few hours ago. Doesn't mention Kiwi's name at all, but talks about a few hands he may or may not have been involved in.
Yeah I saw this and it bugged me since she seemed to label 3 guys as pros, two busted out meaning she didn't necessarily respect kiwikaki or bach as a pro or something
The action will go around the tables all the time, he's not going to play every hand nor will we see him for the whole time, but you will catch glimpses of him just sit tight
On July 16 2011 13:30 Karak wrote: Really, really hate that pre-flop flat with TT.
And if you falt pre, you have to jam that flop. If you are flatting to fold, it's just not good. :-(
1st somehow yes. not hate but i wouldnt do it, cause im not used to it. he minraised and that was oop not 3x with ante, right iirc?
2nd not that used to it but he has basicly a potsize left right? then better call it of and let him bluff/realize some of his equity on turn than ship right? fold is not that bad if you dont want to call it off imo.
im not used to anto games nor to short stacks in tourneys
Breaking Down the Berlin Wall Jonathan Garneau, a legend among the StarCraft 2 community (I'm more of a Portal 2/Total War fan myself) has managed to double up to over 300,000 after he was all in with against Nachman Berlin's .
The board came , Berlin crippled and left with 100,000 as a result.
Kiwikaki is pretty much the last one left, Liquid Poker kept a big list, I think theres one more LP member left in it other than kiwi but I don't believe he has any relation to SC/2 or Team Liquid.
On July 16 2011 13:52 lowkontrast wrote: I've never played poker.
Is Kiwi doing good?
Would you say Ro16 or something?
complicated. out of the money you could account 30k chips for $10k. thats shrinking but its a good guess. thing is most non poker players dont realize is that when you have a tournament stack worth $100k you will make about $30k in 90% and $700k 10%. 300k = 100k but most likely he sold some of his action
depends how he got in. yes most likely was sponsored 10k is not easy to come by. even still if he cashes for 50k he'll probably see half of it still =) KIWI Fighting!!
On July 16 2011 14:14 Zlasher wrote: Kiwikaki wasn't sponsored, he could buy in 10k and he sold about 50% of his action to friends (20% to Fayth, specifically)
Man, I would never do this. Would feel so bad to have a 2mil+ payday and give 75% of it away to taxes and stakers.
Duhamel, the winner of 8.9 mil last year, was splitting action with almost all his french canadian gang (including Fayth).
Keep in mind they're sharing action, so its just lowering variance for everyone, if you bust out then you can still get action from someone else, vice versa.
On July 16 2011 14:14 Zlasher wrote: Kiwikaki wasn't sponsored, he could buy in 10k and he sold about 50% of his action to friends (20% to Fayth, specifically)
Man, I would never do this. Would feel so bad to have a 2mil+ payday and give 75% of it away to taxes and stakers.
Canadians dont pay taxes on gambling winnings, lotteries etc.
On July 16 2011 14:17 Zlasher wrote: Duhamel, the winner of 8.9 mil last year, was splitting action with almost all his french canadian gang (including Fayth).
Keep in mind they're sharing action, so its just lowering variance for everyone, if you bust out then you can still get action from someone else, vice versa.
Better odds of cashing and making money, but when you can afford the 10k buy in, I personally would not split action as if you made the final table I would feel bad having to pay off half or however much to others. Im greedy but ya, makes sense in someways.
Downside being you make for example 500k instead of 1 million, but still your making money but all depends I guess how you look at it.
Wow this pro player dude that is commentating is really good. Like him so much better then that guy who does the TV with Lom (or whatever his name is).
On July 16 2011 14:52 BilltownRunner wrote: Wow this pro player dude that is commentating is really good. Like him so much better then that guy who does the TV with Lom (or whatever his name is).
Aww I loved Norman Chad though. The way he talked about his 20+ ex-wives livened up my day >
Like I said he's in a position where if he just keeps playing his game and run well once or twice then he's going to be well above average. He's in okay shape, it could be worse.
On July 16 2011 15:17 YourMom wrote: How much experience does kiwi have in this kind of events ?
Kiwi was in the Main event last year if i remember corerctly. He has been playing professionally poker for 3 years(?) or so. Don't know how many live tournaments though.
I actually like the way Kiwi has been playing the last two pots. He's very conscious of his image at the table, which is that of a weak/passive younger player. The russian(?) guy tried to run over him, and I think Kiwi expected that, which is why he checked behind on the flop with an ace. Then when he got 2 callers to a blank flop, he gave up on it, knowing it's likely someone would pounce on his cbet and force him to go all-in with air. It seems a little unorthodox, but it's right considering his image and stack size at the moment.
Kiwi watches as his table mate flood prepares to call with AQ Kiwi looks like he wants to call... but decides against it Kiwi checks the ragged flop And laughs after folding
On July 16 2011 15:33 Ciryandor wrote: How much is he guaranteed by now?
Pretty much guarnateed 35k, its only like 25 spots til 24k so yeah.
On July 16 2011 15:33 Mordiford wrote: Yo, thanks for making and updating this thread Zlasher. Much appreciated.
Also, Go go Kiwikaki!
I'm a big fan of competitive everything so I'm glad that I could help with this thread and the LR thread in SC2 General. If you have twitter follow me because I'm a whore
Hey Grettin, wherever you got the Day 4 PDF from last night, can you grab it or let us know how to grab it for Day 5 when its up probably in the upcoming hour or two or so :3
On July 16 2011 15:33 Mordiford wrote: Yo, thanks for making and updating this thread Zlasher. Much appreciated.
Also, Go go Kiwikaki!
I'm a big fan of competitive everything so I'm glad that I could help with this thread and the LR thread in SC2 General. If you have twitter follow me because I'm a whore
Hey Grettin, wherever you got the Day 4 PDF from last night, can you grab it or let us know how to grab it for Day 5 when its up probably in the upcoming hour or two or so :3
I'll grab it for sure. I'll post it when it's available.
On July 16 2011 15:33 Ciryandor wrote: How much is he guaranteed by now?
Pretty much guarnateed 35k, its only like 25 spots til 24k so yeah.
On July 16 2011 15:33 Mordiford wrote: Yo, thanks for making and updating this thread Zlasher. Much appreciated.
Also, Go go Kiwikaki!
I'm a big fan of competitive everything so I'm glad that I could help with this thread and the LR thread in SC2 General. If you have twitter follow me because I'm a whore
Hey Grettin, wherever you got the Day 4 PDF from last night, can you grab it or let us know how to grab it for Day 5 when its up probably in the upcoming hour or two or so :3
I'll grab it for sure. I'll post it when it's available.
Thanks for the help was sure to put your name in the credits at the btotom of the OP
On July 16 2011 16:45 Zlasher wrote: That looks like a really good table to me. Will edit the OP
Can you check that it sure is the Day 5 table. I.e check the names that is on the table and compare it to the featured table shown on ESPN. I missed most of the WSOP 4, so i can't remember any names.
Should be the table though, but sometimes these PDFs are so confused.
e: seems that the table is correct. Daniel Negreanu and Jean-Robert Bellande in same table, so says the list.
FrinkX - Evan McNiff - 317,000 (started the day with 266,000) Kiwikaki - Jonathan Garneau - 260,000 (started the day with 330,000) into2ndwind - Russell Thomas - 636,000 (started the day with 460,500)
On July 16 2011 16:45 Zlasher wrote: That looks like a really good table to me. Will edit the OP
Can you check that it sure is the Day 5 table. I.e check the names that is on the table and compare it to the featured table shown on ESPN. I missed most of the WSOP 4, so i can't remember any names.
Should be the table though, but sometimes these PDFs are so confused.
e: seems that the table is correct. Daniel Negreanu and Jean-Robert Bellande in same table, so says the list.
If they're on the same table, thats guaranteed to be the featured table, they love Daniel and Bellande. I on the other hand, love Daniel and hate Bellande
On July 16 2011 16:45 Zlasher wrote: That looks like a really good table to me. Will edit the OP
Can you check that it sure is the Day 5 table. I.e check the names that is on the table and compare it to the featured table shown on ESPN. I missed most of the WSOP 4, so i can't remember any names.
Should be the table though, but sometimes these PDFs are so confused.
e: seems that the table is correct. Daniel Negreanu and Jean-Robert Bellande in same table, so says the list.
If they're on the same table, thats guaranteed to be the featured table, they love Daniel and Bellande. I on the other hand, love Daniel and hate Bellande
Mimi Luu has 57,000 chips and a healthy list of tournaments that she's placed in this year. She doesn't have many chips, though, so she's likely to be a non-factor.
Steve Brecher has 973,000 chips. He's incredibly experienced, with a very long career (although that's not always a good thing these days) and he won a million dollar top prize two years ago at a WPT event. He seems to be the main threat at KiWiKaKi's table, given his chip count.
Joseph Lacarrubba has 196,000 chips. As far as I can tell, he's a complete no-name.
Christopher Moore has 350,000 chips. He's experienced in the area of live tournaments, with his top win at ~$80,000.
Robert Kolbe has 483,000 chips. He seems like another no-name. I think KiWiKaKi will be happy to have someone with seemingly little experience, but many chips, to his right.
Jonathan Garneau, our hero, has 260,000 chips.
Paul Chauderson has 599,000 chips. KiWiKaKi will not be happy to see this man to his left. He plays in a great deal of live tournaments and places pretty well in them! If Kiwi gets knocked out tomorrow, this guy has as good a chance of anyone of doing it.
Tyler Sumrall has 147,000 chips. He has some experience and some good tournament places, but he doesn't have enough chips to be a big force at the table.
Thomas Pedersen has 671,000 chips. He doesn't have much live tournament experience; he's pretty much a mystery. He has a lot of chips, though. Let's hope those chips make their way into KiWi's stack.
On July 16 2011 17:38 Denzil wrote: Just woke up, it's good to see Kiwi doing somewhat decently.
Also can anyone explain a few terms to me?
Trapping, 3 bet and I think a 5 bet was said somewhere
Trapping refers to the player having a better hand than their opponent and baiting them in with either small bets, or making it appear that they have a weaker hand than they do. Don't quote me on this but I think 3bet/5bet is betting 3x-5x times the amount mentioned, usually for the blinds or pot.
On July 16 2011 18:17 Zlasher wrote: Oh god he was so bad commentating last year at the final table live. -.-
I hope he's just commentating with the other bad guys early on, and they keep Lon/Esfandiari together for the latter 2/3rds of the programming.
I actually like the guys that were on before Lon and Esfandiari. Anyone know their names? One of them was also a player that had gotten knocked out previously.
Notables returning for tomorrow are Daniel Negreanu, Sam Barnhart, Bryan Devonshire, David Bach, Jean-Robert Bellande, Ben Lamb, Sebastian Ruthenberg, Joseph Cheong, Matt Stout, Phil Collins, Joe Tehan, Kevin Saul, Eli Elezra, Lars Bonding, Gary Gates, Tony Hachem, Jon Turner, David Diaz, Erick Lindgren, Allen Cunningham, Todd Brunson, Petter Jetten, Carter King, Sorel Mizzi and JP Kelly.
"Day 5 will start tomorrow, Saturday, at 12 noon sharp PST with some wiggle room in the schedule. The schedule states that the field will play four or five levels. Tournament officials will make the call depending on the rate of bust-outs."
On July 16 2011 23:17 KMARTRULES wrote: How much farther does kiwi have to go? i hear them saying that there are a few hundred players left so im guessing he's still far off?
Never watched poker at all.
Go to where? If he wants to win, 377 players infront of him. If he wants to get to the next money stage/place, less than 20 players. He is already in the moneys, which would earn him around 31k right now.
On July 16 2011 23:17 KMARTRULES wrote: How much farther does kiwi have to go? i hear them saying that there are a few hundred players left so im guessing he's still far off?
Never watched poker at all.
Go to where? If he wants to win, 377 players infront of him. If he wants to get to the next money stage/place, less than 20 players. He is already in the moneys, which would earn him around 31k right now.
He's actually chip stacked like 280/377 or so
But yeah.... below chip average but he does still have about 27 or so BB so he has a bit of room to work with
On July 16 2011 23:17 KMARTRULES wrote: How much farther does kiwi have to go? i hear them saying that there are a few hundred players left so im guessing he's still far off?
Never watched poker at all.
Go to where? If he wants to win, 377 players infront of him. If he wants to get to the next money stage/place, less than 20 players. He is already in the moneys, which would earn him around 31k right now.
He's actually chip stacked like 280/377 or so
Doesn't matter, if he wants to win he needs to win all of the players basically.
You can't just cash out here whenever you want, unless you ship the chips and lose. But maybe i understood your point wrong.
On July 16 2011 23:17 KMARTRULES wrote: How much farther does kiwi have to go? i hear them saying that there are a few hundred players left so im guessing he's still far off?
Never watched poker at all.
Go to where? If he wants to win, 377 players infront of him. If he wants to get to the next money stage/place, less than 20 players. He is already in the moneys, which would earn him around 31k right now.
He's actually chip stacked like 280/377 or so
Doesn't matter, if he wants to win he needs to win all of the players basically.
You can't just cash out here whenever you want, unless you ship the chips and lose. But maybe i understood your point wrong.
Duh? Anyone who follows poker know the tournament structure.
I'm just saying his chip stack is around #280 out of the 377 people left.
On July 16 2011 23:17 KMARTRULES wrote: How much farther does kiwi have to go? i hear them saying that there are a few hundred players left so im guessing he's still far off?
Never watched poker at all.
Go to where? If he wants to win, 377 players infront of him. If he wants to get to the next money stage/place, less than 20 players. He is already in the moneys, which would earn him around 31k right now.
He's actually chip stacked like 280/377 or so
Doesn't matter, if he wants to win he needs to win all of the players basically.
You can't just cash out here whenever you want, unless you ship the chips and lose. But maybe i understood your point wrong.
Duh? Anyone who follows poker know the tournament structure.
I'm just saying his chip stack is around #280 out of the 377 people left.
As i mentioned, then i probably understood your point/post wrong. "Duh".
How does the format work in terms of players eliminated and payout? Is the placement determined in chronological order in terms of time eliminated, by place at table, or by number of rounds?
On July 17 2011 02:12 InvalidID wrote: How does the format work in terms of players eliminated and payout? Is the placement determined in chronological order in terms of time eliminated, by place at table, or by number of rounds?
im pretty sure its chronological but not 100% sure
On July 17 2011 02:12 InvalidID wrote: How does the format work in terms of players eliminated and payout? Is the placement determined in chronological order in terms of time eliminated, by place at table, or by number of rounds?
More or less chronological order. The one exception is hand-by-hand play, which only happens at a couple of poitns in the tournament.
Does Kiwi have a twitter? Would like to follow day 5 progress while i'm at work.
Payout is chronological. I think only exception is Hand by hand play. For example, if two people had busted on the bubble, the person with the smaller stack would have been the bubble boy and the bigger stack would have been ITM.
WSOP ME is on my bucket list. I have come so close to winning satellites in previous years. Gogogogo Kiwi
On July 17 2011 02:12 InvalidID wrote: How does the format work in terms of players eliminated and payout? Is the placement determined in chronological order in terms of time eliminated, by place at table, or by number of rounds?
More or less chronological order. The one exception is hand-by-hand play, which only happens at a couple of poitns in the tournament.
They do hand to hand when they get to major break points in the payouts, and once the payout changes with every elimination they continue hand to hand for the rest of the tournament (I think)
When 8 free spaces open up in the room, a table with 8 players gets broken down and redistributed to fill those spots, so that all tables remain as full as they can. But it'd be a pretty slim sight for that to happen.
Any Vegas residents want to come with me to hit up the Rio and make cheerfuls?
If several players at the same table bust out, they'll dissolve that table and move the players to empty spots at other tables. That's how they keep the tournament moving along. So technically, there is a chance that Kiwi's table could get dissolved and he could be moved to a featured table, but don't hold your breath, there's probably like a 2% chance of that happening. We almost certainly won't see him on TV today.
On July 17 2011 03:26 Deezl wrote: When 8 free spaces open up in the room, a table with 8 players gets broken down and redistributed to fill those spots, so that all tables remain as full as they can. But it'd be a pretty slim sight for that to happen.
Any Vegas residents want to come with me to hit up the Rio and make cheerfuls?
make sure you tell the TV casters they're killing ESPORTS by mispronouncing kiwi's name :D
On July 17 2011 06:00 Fenrax wrote: not allowed to talk about your hand? lol ... very noob friendly tournament, shouldnt be considered world championship then
Thanks a lot for all the updates, much appreciated (Zlasher, fayth, kiwi and all) Being from Quebec and a SC2 player I guess I cant go wrong with rooting for Kiwi!
GOGOGOOG take it to the final table! (and win obviously)
Evan McNiff opened for 27,000 from the cutoff, then Carter King reraised all in from the button. It folded back to McNiff who snap-called, showing . Bad timing for King, who had .
The flop came , leaving King looking for running cards to survive. But the turn was the , making the river no matter, and King hit the rail.
McNiff was back in action on the next hand, five-betting Elder out of a hand preflop to pick up still more chips. He up to 1.932 million now.
On July 17 2011 09:38 Wolvmatt. wrote: I know the US taxes earnings made in a foreign country. Does Canada do the same?
Also, does anybody know if he bought action?
That is only half true. Up to $50k is not taxed, after that it is. An example of this, I made under that while working in Japan for 2 years and I did not have to pay taxes on it.
Edit: And I think the country you do make the money in has to have an agreement with the US, ie like Japan does with the US.
On July 17 2011 10:18 ThaZenith wrote: Kiwi is a baller, quite the payday, and man, 5 days of poker in a row without busting just sounds impossible to me. I'd be lucky to go an hour. >.>
Everyone does. The amount of times pros finish in the money in tournaments is nowhere near the amount they enter. The thing is the tournaments they do finish with a prize pool situation, they place high to receive a bigger payday.
It was pre-flop so it could have easily been different and then Kiwikaki would have been in a strong position going into the next day. Still poker is poker. Kiwi will understand and there are definitely more painful ways to be eliminated.
Another Elky mention, wasn't really paying attention so I missed the context I just heard him mention his name right before they went back to commercial.
On July 17 2011 14:42 Looms wrote: Hellmuth saying 15k runners in the main event next year.
Pretty bold statement O_O
I am definitely going next year if I manage to qualify through pokerstars I would be totally alone though but I guess it's a nice experience travelling alone to las vegas ^^
Yeah I think Cheong is the player I'm rooting for most now, and of course FrinkX if the guy is in the TL/LP community. Pretty rough table though, although at some point I want to say that being in John "Raise Raise Raise GOD ONE TIME OMG OMGOMG WHY DO I RUN SO BAD QQQQQQQ" Bellande is a blessing and not a curse.
On July 17 2011 20:23 Zlasher wrote: Wow, looks like FrinkX will be on the featured table again, with two of the biggest names left (Eli Elezra and Bellande again).
What were the odds that he'd be on Bellandes table again, damn.
He's actually quite unlucky to have Elezra, probably the biggest name, to his direct left though.
lol Elezra is pretty bad, I don't think he minds. Having a tough internet player to your left would be worse.
Yeah. The big name players are mostly quite bad and don't really understand much of the game and only play by "feel" and live experience... sometimes its good but often not so much. A lot of good online players still left. Im rooting for the finnish guys Jens Kyllönen and Sami "LarsLuzak" Kelopuro both insanely good.
On July 17 2011 21:00 Daray wrote: Yeah. The big name players are mostly quite bad and don't really understand much of the game and only play by "feel" and live experience... sometimes its good but often not so much. A lot of good online players still left. Im rooting for the finnish guys Jens Kyllönen and Sami "LarsLuzak" Kelopuro both insanely good.
Even if the big names are bad or not as good as the online players/other players with less experience nowadays, they will still get 'more' coverage, featured tables and so on.
I'm also rooting for Kelapuro aswell as Cheong and FrinkX of course. Imo Kelapuro is the best Finnish player there is right know. Even though Antonius is good.
On July 17 2011 20:23 Zlasher wrote: Wow, looks like FrinkX will be on the featured table again, with two of the biggest names left (Eli Elezra and Bellande again).
What were the odds that he'd be on Bellandes table again, damn.
He's actually quite unlucky to have Elezra, probably the biggest name, to his direct left though.
A big name maybe, but NLHE is probably Eli's worst game. Eli is fairly passive preflop and doesn't speculate much in tournaments. I think he could do a lot worse.
Yea, but live poker is different than internet poker. If you start getting nervous about bluffing and start breathing hard or blinking a lot, doesn't matter if you're behind a computer screen
Of course that's only valid if you've never played live or have very little experience, probably not the case for most people
On July 17 2011 23:20 KOFgokuon wrote: Yea, but live poker is different than internet poker. If you start getting nervous about bluffing and start breathing hard or blinking a lot, doesn't matter if you're behind a computer screen
Of course that's only valid if you've never played live or have very little experience, probably not the case for most people
Yeah, live is different
In live you don't need to play good because the game is full of fish
On July 17 2011 23:20 KOFgokuon wrote: Yea, but live poker is different than internet poker. If you start getting nervous about bluffing and start breathing hard or blinking a lot, doesn't matter if you're behind a computer screen
Of course that's only valid if you've never played live or have very little experience, probably not the case for most people
Yeah, live is different
In live you don't need to play good because the game is full of fish
why aren't you rocking the WSOP if its that easy? -.-
On July 17 2011 23:20 KOFgokuon wrote: Yea, but live poker is different than internet poker. If you start getting nervous about bluffing and start breathing hard or blinking a lot, doesn't matter if you're behind a computer screen
Of course that's only valid if you've never played live or have very little experience, probably not the case for most people
Yeah, live is different
In live you don't need to play good because the game is full of fish
You just need to exploit your opponents and exploiting the live fish is a different skill than playing against online grinders or even online fish.
On July 17 2011 23:20 KOFgokuon wrote: Yea, but live poker is different than internet poker. If you start getting nervous about bluffing and start breathing hard or blinking a lot, doesn't matter if you're behind a computer screen
Of course that's only valid if you've never played live or have very little experience, probably not the case for most people
Yeah, live is different
In live you don't need to play good because the game is full of fish
why aren't you rocking the WSOP if its that easy? -.-
I could be wrong, but there was a article where this style of poker is more luck based and pros only come to play because of the huge prize pool.
Although there are a lot of fish in live tournaments you have to still avoid getting sucked out :D they are even worse than the donkeys online since they overbet a lot and putting all of their chips on draws.
On July 18 2011 00:48 GunSec wrote: Although there are a lot of fish in live tournaments you have to still avoid getting sucked out :D they are even worse than the donkeys online since they overbet a lot and putting all of their chips on draws.
How is that worst than online? Given I've only got experience from low stakes tables.
On July 17 2011 20:23 Zlasher wrote: Wow, looks like FrinkX will be on the featured table again, with two of the biggest names left (Eli Elezra and Bellande again).
What were the odds that he'd be on Bellandes table again, damn.
He's actually quite unlucky to have Elezra, probably the biggest name, to his direct left though.
elezra is terrible at poker, i wouldnt find myself unlucky to have him on my left lol
Wow, just checked out to see where my friend came, he is still in it!
"Sam Holden Made day 6 in the main event of the world series of poker. I have 2,281,000 in chips with blinds at 12k/24k tomorrow. 142 players are left of the 6865 that started and I am 19th in chips :-D"
Guy is one of the nicest people out there, and not a douche! Everyone cheer him on!
On July 18 2011 04:32 zeru wrote: The stream in op stop working every other minute, gives that message about me having to buy a pro account or something. Is there a better one?
On July 18 2011 04:19 coko wrote: Wow, just checked out to see where my friend came, he is still in it!
"Sam Holden Made day 6 in the main event of the world series of poker. I have 2,281,000 in chips with blinds at 12k/24k tomorrow. 142 players are left of the 6865 that started and I am 19th in chips :-D"
Guy is one of the nicest people out there, and not a douche! Everyone cheer him on!
Well, seems that your friend is now on featured table.
On July 18 2011 07:34 Corvi wrote: why dont they display the hands of the players. makes watching this kinda pointless.
I see it more interesting this way.
why is that? i can't think of any reason this would be more interesting.
Some people are interested in trying to deduce what the opponent's hand is based on their actions. If they already know the hands, then they cannot practice this.
On July 18 2011 07:34 Corvi wrote: why dont they display the hands of the players. makes watching this kinda pointless.
I see it more interesting this way.
why is that? i can't think of any reason this would be more interesting.
Its like watching a bw game vs watching an sc2 game. In sc2 there are the tabs that tell you everything that is happening but not for bw. Lets say a Protoss player crushes a Zerg push and is heading towards the Zergs base and all seems lost when all of a sudden 15 ultralisks suddenly pop at the last second and roll the Protoss army over. Extremely more exciting then seeing 15 ultras in production and saying "oh when those pop the Protoss army is screwed." When you know whats going to happen before it does it takes away from the spectating experience as opposed to thinking you know whats going to happen based on what you see and then something huge occurs that completely changes the tide of the game. Sometimes less is more.
They dont show the cards because they arent allowed to if they are showing the event live. The only time they are allowed to show the cards is on a tape delayed show to prevent cheating of any kind.
On July 18 2011 07:34 Corvi wrote: why dont they display the hands of the players. makes watching this kinda pointless.
I see it more interesting this way.
why is that? i can't think of any reason this would be more interesting.
Its like watching a bw game vs watching an sc2 game. In sc2 there are the tabs that tell you everything that is happening but not for bw. Lets say a Protoss player crushes a Zerg push and is heading towards the Zergs base and all seems lost when all of a sudden 15 ultralisks suddenly pop at the last second and roll the Protoss army over. Extremely more exciting then seeing 15 ultras in production and saying "oh when those pop the Protoss army is screwed." When you know whats going to happen before it does it takes away from the spectating experience as opposed to thinking you know whats going to happen based on what you see and then something huge occurs that completely changes the tide of the game. Sometimes less is more.
I'm not a good poker player. So for me it's only exciting when the moderator is good, but when he is, without seeing the cards it's way better. I mean, when you see the cards the moderator can talk about what the player is displaying and could have as much as he wants, but if you don't see them, it's amazing to hear the insight of good poker players and what goes through their heads in such moments.
On July 18 2011 09:06 R0YAL wrote: Did good kiwi, you'll win next time ^^
On July 18 2011 07:55 Corvi wrote:
On July 18 2011 07:40 Grettin wrote:
On July 18 2011 07:34 Corvi wrote: why dont they display the hands of the players. makes watching this kinda pointless.
I see it more interesting this way.
why is that? i can't think of any reason this would be more interesting.
Its like watching a bw game vs watching an sc2 game. In sc2 there are the tabs that tell you everything that is happening but not for bw. Lets say a Protoss player crushes a Zerg push and is heading towards the Zergs base and all seems lost when all of a sudden 15 ultralisks suddenly pop at the last second and roll the Protoss army over. Extremely more exciting then seeing 15 ultras in production and saying "oh when those pop the Protoss army is screwed." When you know whats going to happen before it does it takes away from the spectating experience as opposed to thinking you know whats going to happen based on what you see and then something huge occurs that completely changes the tide of the game. Sometimes less is more.
I'm not a good poker player. So for me it's only exciting when the moderator is good, but when he is, without seeing the cards it's way better. I mean, when you see the cards the moderator can talk about what the player is displaying and could have as much as he wants, but if you don't see them, it's amazing to hear the insight of good poker players and what goes through their heads in such moments.
Hah yeah I feel ya. For someone who doesn't have a lot of in depth knowledge about poker, seeing the cards is probably more entertaining for most. I like poker but my I don't have tip top knowledge but trying to get inside the players heads was still fun ^^ I had never spectated poker without seeing the hands before so that made it more exciting to me.
On July 18 2011 07:34 Corvi wrote: why dont they display the hands of the players. makes watching this kinda pointless.
I see it more interesting this way.
why is that? i can't think of any reason this would be more interesting.
Its like watching a bw game vs watching an sc2 game. In sc2 there are the tabs that tell you everything that is happening but not for bw. Lets say a Protoss player crushes a Zerg push and is heading towards the Zergs base and all seems lost when all of a sudden 15 ultralisks suddenly pop at the last second and roll the Protoss army over. Extremely more exciting then seeing 15 ultras in production and saying "oh when those pop the Protoss army is screwed." When you know whats going to happen before it does it takes away from the spectating experience as opposed to thinking you know whats going to happen based on what you see and then something huge occurs that completely changes the tide of the game. Sometimes less is more.
yea, all of a sudden a huge bet pops out, and you wonder if he is bitting a shit hand or wants to get something out of his likely winning hand. and you have noooo idea and will never have. that's like 10 collosi pop out and the other guy leaves the game, and you will never know if they were illusions (hi idra). extremely unsatisfying. while i agree that guessing yourself (or the moderators) is quite nice, you should still have a conclusion after all, that is not only based on bitting behaviour and number of played hands. that's like only knowing the map and the likeliness of a player going for all-in strategies.
On July 18 2011 10:05 pikaaarrr :3 wrote: Not related to WSOP, but where do most Americans play now? WSOP has inspired me to just try playing some micro-stakes poker a little :p
The US really needs an Online poker site we can use I wanted to start playing so I started researching then maybe a week later it was ban or whatever happened.
On July 18 2011 10:48 Zlasher wrote: You can't play on pokerstars in the US...
I live in the US and play on pokerstars regularly.......
I know what you're doing b ut unlike you I'm not encouraging other people to try to find loopholes. I'm just telling the kid who wants to play that he shouldn't fuck around with it at this point in time.
I havent played since black friday and I live in Canada. Was kind of waiting to see if Pokerstars would be able to recover. seems to be recovering now, but still a little skeptical. I think it would be madness for any US players to try and play given the situation within the last few months.
So, possible featured tables for day 7? I was hoping they'd show E-dawg's table, but it looks like the softest of the bunch and no huge stacks. Personally, I'm betting on this one:
324 1 Phil Collins 7,240,000 324 2 Konstantinos Mamaliadis 5,065,000 324 3 Nelson Robinson 6,420,000 324 4 James Page 4,045,000 324 5 Erika Moutinho 2,075,000 324 6 --empty-- -- 324 7 Gionni Demers 1,625,000 324 8 Tri Hyunh 6,295,000 324 9 Stefan Huber 1,470,000
The funny thing is Erica works in casting and she took out Mathew Salsberg, a well-known writer and producer of such hits like Weeds, before the end of the night.
On July 18 2011 10:48 Zlasher wrote: You can't play on pokerstars in the US...
I live in the US and play on pokerstars regularly.......
You're being very reckless, then. Whether you are doing it with a VPN or whatever else, you risk a lot in doing this.
I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary. And I'm not being "reckless" as you say. I went to their website, downloaded the client, made an account (which says "United States" next to my name while I play and the same for thousands of others), and began playing. There's nothing illegal about it.
Ok, just read up on what you are talking about. Playing real money poker on Pokerstars and FullTiltPoker has been suspended for the US, but not play money games.
Funny things about Poker and cheating. Hell people can still team up and help each other out with their signs no way to prevent that. Getting on same table or late / final tables the chances are low but if it happens no one can prevent any signs between players Poker is not something you can play 100 % legit . Its as dirty as humanity evilness itself
On July 19 2011 04:41 Serashin wrote: Funny things about Poker and cheating. Hell people can still team up and help each other out with their signs no way to prevent that. Getting on same table or late / final tables the chances are low but if it happens no one can prevent any signs between players Poker is not something you can play 100 % legit . Its as dirty as humanity evilness itself
and you can maphack on sc2, booths at tournaments may not be completely sound proof, etc, so what's your point? does that detract from the legitimacy of sc2 competition?
when you're on national tv, i find it hard to believe you can get away with cheating. and why would complete randos help each other in a freezeout tournament such as this? lol it's just tinfoilhatting you're conjuring up
On July 19 2011 04:41 Serashin wrote: Funny things about Poker and cheating. Hell people can still team up and help each other out with their signs no way to prevent that. Getting on same table or late / final tables the chances are low but if it happens no one can prevent any signs between players Poker is not something you can play 100 % legit . Its as dirty as humanity evilness itself
What you're suggesting is that people will try. It doesn't work. There are reasons why they have preventative strategies in place (penalties for collusion etc.). I guess it would take away from the legitimacy of events if cheating we a legitimate concern, but it's not.
My god, Lamb could have gone from 9 mil to 2 mil FAST lol.
Getting caught in Vegas for cheating, let alone in the biggest event of the year, would lead to some pretty serious repercussions. You think people are going to sit around the table sharing signs and stuff? lol
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the brasilian is going downnnnnnnnnnnnn!!! lol, that guy is so bad
On July 19 2011 10:10 Shelke14 wrote: YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the brasilian is going downnnnnnnnnnnnn!!! lol, that guy is so bad
And annoying, even from spectator point of view. That waiting.......
On July 19 2011 10:10 Shelke14 wrote: YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the brasilian is going downnnnnnnnnnnnn!!! lol, that guy is so bad
And annoying, even from spectator point of view. That waiting.......
As much as I was annoyed at seeing him take forever, wow those coolers....
I can only imagine playing for 6 days getting deep in the main event, having a huge chip stack, then just getting ridiculous run bad and going out in like an hour.
On July 19 2011 10:10 Shelke14 wrote: YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the brasilian is going downnnnnnnnnnnnn!!! lol, that guy is so bad
And annoying, even from spectator point of view. That waiting.......
As much as I was annoyed at seeing him take forever, wow those coolers....
I can only imagine playing for 6 days getting deep in the main event, having a huge chip stack, then just getting ridiculous run bad and going out in like an hour.
He laid some bad beats on people earlier in the televised coverage, so I wouldn't feel too bad for him. When you have the hand range that he does, you kind of live by the sword and die by the sword.
On July 19 2011 10:10 Shelke14 wrote: YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the brasilian is going downnnnnnnnnnnnn!!! lol, that guy is so bad
And annoying, even from spectator point of view. That waiting.......
As much as I was annoyed at seeing him take forever, wow those coolers....
I can only imagine playing for 6 days getting deep in the main event, having a huge chip stack, then just getting ridiculous run bad and going out in like an hour.
He laid some bad beats on people earlier in the televised coverage, so I wouldn't feel too bad for him. When you have the hand range that he does, you kind of live by the sword and die by the sword.
Well he didn't really end up losing by playing crazy range, but he did have that one where he got in big with 53s and then hit a 4 for gutshot wheel draw on the river that I remember.
And yeah he did seem noticeably weaker and Phil H blasted his poor decision on his first big loss to call the all-in.
...Ouch Ben Lamb just lost like 6 million on a questionable play
On July 20 2011 06:27 Looms wrote: So you wouldn't rather see him with the 31.8MM stack with 6 eliminations til November 9, because that doesn't matter that much
Not the biggest, and he's not even running that well. Every move he makes has been perfect. H'es lost almost zero showdowns especially big ones. He bets the perfect amount every time. His play has been by far the best, him and Phil Collins are a step above the competition in terms of play, but it is down to like 12 people, and its poker, so we'll see what happens.
Also, the average age of the final table will be so much higher this year compared to the last two, where it was littered with 21-26 year olds. This year it'll seem to be mostly 25-30 year olds in the november 9
This is way, way better than the audio only, no holecard casts of the past WSOP final tables. Imagine if they did this during Ivey's final table run! It would have been such a good show.
I think they did this style during the PCA first, then WSOP decided to use it now, right?
Its nice that Lamb not only has the cards but he plays them PERFECTLY. You can tell everyone fears him as if he is the overwhelming chip leader when he's just in 3rd place lol. Him and Collins are definitely the two best players on that table right now in my opinion.
Hewitt has played LEAPS AND BOUNDS worse than everyone on that table. He's called with A10o KNOWING that at best he's coinflipping against a lower pocket pair but there is no hand that is worse that he can beat. And now he's calling with KQo? What is wrong with this guy he knows that the very worst hand someones going in with is AJ...
Ben Lamb is playing the best, he has half the chip leaders chips and is going to be very dangerous, Phil Collins as well. I think if people want to do bets and gave me some odds on the two average stacks collins and lamb, i'd jump on that fast lol. Or if anyone wants to do pick 3 to win it haha.
Yes, I do like that theres great representation across the board, like Looms stated. I completely agree with Esfandiari though, Lamb and Collins played the best poker.
On July 20 2011 18:20 Zlasher wrote: Hewitt has played LEAPS AND BOUNDS worse than everyone on that table. He's called with A10o KNOWING that at best he's coinflipping against a lower pocket pair but there is no hand that is worse that he can beat. And now he's calling with KQo? What is wrong with this guy he knows that the very worst hand someones going in with is AJ...
The AT call was marginal but fine. I'd even go so far to say it's near-standard. At a minimum it's easily defensible and anyone who plays MTTs isn't going to harp too hard on him for that.
The KQ call was pretty bad. He made a very bad ICM calculation (both in terms of cEV and IRL EV of being a Nov. 9er).
I think Saszko's play on the final 10 today has been very underrated. He wasn't playing at the best level prior (but was still good), however I was pretty impressed with him.
Benba and USCPhildo obv played the very best I think, though. O'Dea was ok.
I mean honestly, everyone but Belize-cap-dude on the FT is a solid player. Should make for a graet final 9. I personally thought UT hat guy was a bit too nitty, but it's an acceptable style to play there and it worked out.
On July 20 2011 18:59 Karak wrote: I think Saszko's play on the final 10 today has been very underrated.
I was thinking the exact same thing, but I haven't seen a ton of praise for his play yet. It is harder to say much about his preflop decisions without the benefit of seeing holecards however.
On July 20 2011 18:20 Zlasher wrote: Hewitt has played LEAPS AND BOUNDS worse than everyone on that table. He's called with A10o KNOWING that at best he's coinflipping against a lower pocket pair but there is no hand that is worse that he can beat. And now he's calling with KQo? What is wrong with this guy he knows that the very worst hand someones going in with is AJ...
The AT call was marginal but fine. I'd even go so far to say it's near-standard. At a minimum it's easily defensible and anyone who plays MTTs isn't going to harp too hard on him for that.
The KQ call was pretty bad. He made a very bad ICM calculation (both in terms of cEV and IRL EV of being a Nov. 9er).
Dude the AT was and absolutely awful call are you joking? What does he beat? He's folded for 4 hours straight blinding out from 22 to 13m who calls him with less than 10's JJ QQ KK AA AK AQ AJ? Against what, You think anyones calling someone playing that tight on the final 10 with K9? or less than 9's? People aren't willing to flip to break their stacks as evidenced by the 10 flops we saw out of 100 hands of 3 bets and folds.
Its a stretch to even say that someone with AJ or 10's would call him, let alone the bevy of hands worse.
His best case scenario is a flip against 9's or lower (nobodies going to call 13m with that, not even O'Dea or Stazco who are chip leaders.
The KQ call was even worse, lets not even get into that.
On July 20 2011 18:59 Karak wrote: I think Saszko's play on the final 10 today has been very underrated. He wasn't playing at the best level prior (but was still good), however I was pretty impressed with him.
Benba and USCPhildo obv played the very best I think, though. O'Dea was ok.
I mean honestly, everyone but Belize-cap-dude on the FT is a solid player. Should make for a graet final 9. I personally thought UT hat guy was a bit too nitty, but it's an acceptable style to play there and it worked out.
Nevermind ignore that~
Heres the Bio's on Poker News of the final 9 (came from final 12 but I'll cut out the 3 that busted):
Badih Bounahra is a 49-year-old businessman and father of three originally from Lebanon now residing in Belize City. He says he learned poker from television, and cheekily names seven-deuce offsuit as the "best hand in my eyes." He has a few cashes to his credit, including one WSOP cash from 2008 in a $2,000 NLHE event.
Phil Collins is a 26-year-old poker pro originally from Rockford, Illinois who now calls Las Vegas home. As his online handle "USCphildo" indicates, he went to the University of South Carolina where he met his wife, Katie. In addition to his numerous online successes, Collins has a number of live cashes to his credit (including one at this year's WSOP), although his payday for this year's Main Event will well exceed all of those.
Matt Giannetti of Las Vegas is a 26-year-old poker pro who previously attended the University of Texas. He has a number of cashes to his credit dating back to 2006 totaling nearly half a million dollars, including 10 at the World Series of Poker. His best previous finish in the Main Event was 521st in 2006 (for $22,266).
Pius Heinz of Cologne, Germany is a 22-year-old student who first learned poker via home games with friends. This marks his first WSOP, and it has been a successful one, including a final table in Event No. 48 ($1,500 NLHE) where he finished seventh to earn $83,286.
Sam Holden is a 22-year-old poker pro from Canterbury, England. The former student is making his WSOP debut this year, and this marks his first WSOP cash. He has a few scores from the UK & Ireland poker tour, including a first-place finish last month in a NLHE six-handed event, though no previous cashes above four figures.
Ben Lamb's poker resume is easily the most extensive of the remaining 12 players, including more than $2.5 million in career winnings and numerous WSOP successes. "Benba" earned his first WSOP bracelet this summer in Event No. 42, the $10,000 PLO Championship, and added a couple more final tables to put himself in first place in this year's WSOP Player of the Year race. Today Lamb ensured he'd surpass his previous best showing in the WSOP Main Event, a 14th-place finish in 2009.
Anton Makiievskyi of Dnipropetrousk, Ukraine is playing in his first-ever WSOP. He's looking to be the fifth Ukrainian to take home a WSOP bracelet this year, which would pull Ukraine into a tie with Canada for the second-most bracelets of any country behind the U.S.
Eoghan O'Dea of Ireland is a 26-year-old student who says he first learned poker from the popular U.K. show "Late Night Poker." His poker resume includes a number of cashes dating back to 2005, including three already at this summer's WSOP. He's the son of the famous poker player Donnacha O'Dea, member of the European Poker Players Hall of Fame.
Martin Staszko is a 35-year-old poker pro from Trinec of the Czech Republic who previously worked in the automotive industry. Stasko has four cashes at the WSOP already this summer, his best finish being 39th in the $1,500 PLO8 Event No. 51.
On July 20 2011 18:20 Zlasher wrote: Hewitt has played LEAPS AND BOUNDS worse than everyone on that table. He's called with A10o KNOWING that at best he's coinflipping against a lower pocket pair but there is no hand that is worse that he can beat. And now he's calling with KQo? What is wrong with this guy he knows that the very worst hand someones going in with is AJ...
The AT call was marginal but fine. I'd even go so far to say it's near-standard. At a minimum it's easily defensible and anyone who plays MTTs isn't going to harp too hard on him for that.
The KQ call was pretty bad. He made a very bad ICM calculation (both in terms of cEV and IRL EV of being a Nov. 9er).
Dude the AT was and absolutely awful call are you joking? What does he beat? He's folded for 4 hours straight blinding out from 22 to 13m who calls him with less than 10's JJ QQ KK AA AK AQ AJ? Against what, You think anyones calling someone playing that tight on the final 10 with K9? or less than 9's? People aren't willing to flip to break their stacks as evidenced by the 10 flops we saw out of 100 hands of 3 bets and folds.
Its a stretch to even say that someone with AJ or 10's would call him, let alone the bevy of hands worse.
His best case scenario is a flip against 9's or lower (nobodies going to call 13m with that, not even O'Dea or Stazco who are chip leaders.
The KQ call was even worse, lets not even get into that.
You don't play much tournament poker do you? I can't really fully explain why it's standard in less than 5 minutes time (and I'm about to pass out), but I'll leave you with this thought:
There are situations in poker where your hand is likely behind the opponent's range and calling is still an easy and correct move. Also, his range wasn't as tight as you made it out to be.
I didn't say the AT was a super solid call (or do I mean to imply it's a snap fold), but to say it's "horrible" is pretty lol. It's defensible at a minimum.
Also huge lol @ folding TT.
Honestly, I should just Pokerstove this and solve it, but I really think your range is far too tight. However, if you have the stack sizes, blinds, etc. pokerstove can at least get us halfway there. I'm about to pass out tho. Perhaps tmw. It's close, but it's not horrible by any means.
On July 20 2011 18:59 Karak wrote: I think Saszko's play on the final 10 today has been very underrated.
I was thinking the exact same thing, but I haven't seen a ton of praise for his play yet. It is harder to say much about his preflop decisions without the benefit of seeing holecards however.
Meh it's possible he was getting smashed in the face with the deck, but unlikely. . In the hand where Phil and Antonio both correctly guessed JJ, JJ was also the very first hand to come to my mind too. This late with these stack sizes, establishing at least loose ranges on most of those players wasn't too wild.
The fact that Staszko left some doubt in our minds and the minds of others speaks well about his play.
If you're talking about his pot odds, he open shoved with it dude, and YES he was playing that tight are you kidding? He folded every hand, didn't steal a single pot for 4-5 hours. And the way the hand was table was playign out every time someone shoved, that was the range. He wasn't 3 betting anyone so he wasn't getting any chance to steal the blinds and antes there, which would amount to 1.1m
You're telling me that shipping it on a 1.1m pot by sending out 13m is a high EV situation with ATo? You tell me the odds and how wide of a range he needs to beat for that to be +EV especially when the other 9 players were not calling 13mil all ins with jack shit, especially on a guy who open shoves on his first hand after 5 hours of play.
Are we talking about the same hand? Now I'm confused. Was it a shove? I was playing EVE at the time and I've also been up for nearly 24 hours so perhaps I'm misremembering.
Either way jamming AT in LP with 15 BBs that late in a tourney is pretty damn standard. A lot of tourney sickos will open ship 20 BBs in some spots. The fact that your opponents' calling ranges are very tight actually makes a wider shoving range much better, not worse. This is all very basic stuff.
You aren't considering FE or hand ranges or anything. I don't know what else to tell you.
Either way, the first guy to reply to your post on 2+2 is a genius imo and the greatest tourney sicko ever.
Edit - altho before we continue thsi banter we should make sure we're talking about the same hand. However, I can tell you that your logic is highly flawed regardless of whether the end result is correct or not. A tighter calling range doesn't necessarily you should have a tighter shoving range when we're talking about late game pushbot stuff. It's almost always the opposite.
Also not to come off as a prick, but I have a ton of tourney experience both online and live and have run deep in a lot of huge tournaments (sunday mil FT, stars 100k win, multiple WSOP cashes and deep runs, etc.). I'm not just talking out my ass here.
But it's possible we're talking about 2 different hands and thus the confusion. Like I said it's late, I've been up like 24 hours and I've had a few beers.
On July 20 2011 18:20 Zlasher wrote: Hewitt has played LEAPS AND BOUNDS worse than everyone on that table. He's called with A10o KNOWING that at best he's coinflipping against a lower pocket pair but there is no hand that is worse that he can beat. And now he's calling with KQo? What is wrong with this guy he knows that the very worst hand someones going in with is AJ...
The AT call was marginal but fine. I'd even go so far to say it's near-standard. At a minimum it's easily defensible and anyone who plays MTTs isn't going to harp too hard on him for that.
The KQ call was pretty bad. He made a very bad ICM calculation (both in terms of cEV and IRL EV of being a Nov. 9er).
Dude the AT was and absolutely awful call are you joking? What does he beat? He's folded for 4 hours straight blinding out from 22 to 13m who calls him with less than 10's JJ QQ KK AA AK AQ AJ? Against what, You think anyones calling someone playing that tight on the final 10 with K9? or less than 9's? People aren't willing to flip to break their stacks as evidenced by the 10 flops we saw out of 100 hands of 3 bets and folds.
Its a stretch to even say that someone with AJ or 10's would call him, let alone the bevy of hands worse.
His best case scenario is a flip against 9's or lower (nobodies going to call 13m with that, not even O'Dea or Stazco who are chip leaders.
The KQ call was even worse, lets not even get into that.
You don't play much tournament poker do you? I can't really fully explain why it's standard in less than 5 minutes time (and I'm about to pass out), but I'll leave you with this thought:
There are situations in poker where your hand is likely behind the opponent's range and calling is still an easy and correct move. Also, his range wasn't as tight as you made it out to be.
I didn't say the AT was a super solid call (or do I mean to imply it's a snap fold), but to say it's "horrible" is pretty lol. It's defensible at a minimum.
Also huge lol @ folding TT.
Honestly, I should just Pokerstove this and solve it, but I really think your range is far too tight. However, if you have the stack sizes, blinds, etc. pokerstove can at least get us halfway there. I'm about to pass out tho. Perhaps tmw. It's close, but it's not horrible by any means.
You were gonna pass out in 5 minutes and post on 2+2 an hour and half later? lol come on now.
I'd still love to see the math, no I don't play as much tournament poker as you seem to, but I DON'T believe the calling range is looser than what I named. People aren't calling with many medium pocket pairs and nobody is calling without AJ+, even AJ is a stretch. He folded for 4-5 straight hours dude, through two levels and nobody called a single all-in without a premium hand, of which ATo is NOT in a final 10 situation.
Please explain it in more grandiose fashion if you're reading this, or tomorrow when you wake up because I want to learn how in gods name that is a good call in the situation, a 175,000 dollar +EV value call.
On July 20 2011 20:46 Karak wrote: Also not to come off as a prick, but I have a ton of tourney experience both online and live and have run deep in a lot of huge tournaments (sunday mil FT, stars 100k win, multiple WSOP cashes and deep runs, etc.). I'm not just talking out my ass here.
But it's possible we're talking about 2 different hands and thus the confusion. Like I said it's late, I've been up like 24 hours and I've had a few beers.
I'm 99% sure I'm a worse player than you but that doesn't mean that it was a good call.
Let me try to find the hand history/report on it on pokernews and repost it here so you can reevaluate it now, or when you're more sober.
Oh looks like I was listing the hand history wrong was watching my roommate play BW at the time I think, but let me repost it. I apologize about earlier then Karak, just thought that the playw as much more idiotic than it was.
Matt Giannetti open-shoved his last 5.5 million from under the gun, and the action folded all the way to John Hewitt in the big blind. Upon sweating his cards, he ripped his hood off of his head, and went into the tank. He painstakingly called, and was in bad shape.
Giannetti looked sick. Despite having way the best hand, he was pacing back and forth on the main stage, unable to look at the table. His friends David Williams and Nenad Medic tried to console him, but it was no use.
The dealer rapped the table, and delivered a flop of {k-Hearts}{4-Hearts}{8-Clubs}.
Seemingly the entire crowd was rooting against Giannetti. A few Ukrainian gentlemen were yelling, "ace" with a thick accent, and other people were calling for running hearts.
"Jack of diamonds for a sweat," Medic joked from the rail.
The turn was the {5-Clubs}.
Giannetti's rail clapped loudly, knowing he was on the verge of a much-needed double up. The mothership fell silent right as the river was about to be dealt, and when the {6-Spades} hit the felt Giannetti's rail exploded.
He doubled to over 11 million chips, while Hewitt dropped to just 10.4 million.
Hewitt (and I remember this) sat there for like 3 minutes debating his move and called the all-in with ATo
Gianetti wouldn't be stealing from UTG 10 handed. Once again his hand range (and you're absolutely right, I was wrong) is wider, probably 6's+ and AT+, maybe KQ, I find it hard to imagine QJs or KJs, but we'll throw those in there
At that point what is he beating? He's beating KQ, QJs, KJs, 60/40 and flipping against 6's, 7's 8's and 9's.
Gianetti was playing only pretty decent hands, but this isn't something that we would have seen, or can expect Hewitt to know.
Was he gaining good value, when he knows a loss cripples him to bottom two and about 20bb, when he is sitting on, at the time a solid 30bb to work with.
Nobody has called All-ins up to that point, even with much more premium hands and significantly better stacks than Hewitts.
Especially after all 8 hands fold in front of you, do you really think that ATo is the best of the 9 hands other than Gianetti's? And what does that really beat.
He said in his post game interview he was willing to coinflip against that range, when he had KQ, and instead he had AT for this hand, and this range is relatively the same (he called though, instead of the one to open shove obviously).
Don't play too much mtt but that ATo call seems awful based on what zlasher's saying, esp. because of table dynamics up to that point, that it was UTG shipping at a crucial point in the tourney, and the fact that he has ATo and is never ahead and either flipping or behind.
I just ran the hand by my friends, one who plays midstakes and another who used to play high stakes. Used pokerstove and theres no way thats a good call, they both say.
According to pokerstove he's winning against a normal range about 37% of the time (we even threw in two cards of complete air into it, just for the hell of it in case someone wants to widen the range, but from UTG, they wouldn't shove with 7's or less.
So to be generous I'll put his range at 6's+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, and KQo
Thats being PRETTY generous Karak, no? He gets 37% against that range.
I don't think Giannetti is ever shipping 66-77, KJs, AJo, or KQo utg in the ME 10 handed.
Hewitt donked it off hard. I also LOL'd when he told Kara Scott that he just went with math with KQ call. What retard math did he learn? He calls a shove from tightest dude at table who is very clearly trying to hollywood a huge fucking hand. He starts spouting off the extreme bottom of Belize's range to try and justify it.
I am 100% ok with Hewitt playing like shit though, since Giannetti is my first pick to win the ME. Guy is a sick baller and im 3rd degree of separation from him. 2ndd pick is O'dea. Total sick story with the Father/Son angle. He is a great player with good past results. Real easy to get behind.
Yeah thats why I said I was being generous lol, in all honesty his range is significantly tighter than that, which makes the call even worse of a play lol
Bump and shamelessly using some of the 2+2's livethread content.
Sunday afternoon 2011 World Series of Poker Main Event final table gets underway shortly after 12:00pm PT (3:00pm ET).
Broadcast will resume Sunday, Nov. 6 at 3:30pm ET on ESPN2 and WATCHESPN. Lon McEachern and David Tuchman will lead the coverage with Olivier Busquet, Phil Hellmuth and others expected to provide commentary. Coverage will be on a 15-minute delay with hole cards revealed after the hand is played out. (Additional streams should be in the OP.)
Each of the nine players at the WSOP ME final table received $782,115 with the remaining $21,230,330 entered into a Fidelity money market account. An additional $9,858 in interest was generated and is reflected in the payouts below:
EPT
Bless him![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mYfWW.jpg)
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seems I'm a bigger fish than i thought^^ good that i only play micro stakes for fun 
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