This post is not to brag, but to help out all you that are not winning money at poker. If you follow these steps you will become a winner at the low lvls.
1) Ask yourself honestly if you have the qualities needed, and the desire needed to become a winner.
Qualities needed are above average intelligence, patience, and ability to stay calm after a bad beat. Desire is also very important, if you dont want it badly you simply have almost no chance. You need to be willing to go all the way, not half way in your quest to be a winner (just like in brood war). If you dont have all of the above then just dont play poker.
2) Read the books, watch the TV shows, go to poker forums.
I have read about 10 books on how to play poker and plan on reading many more. Poker is very complex. Watching the WSOP on espn and a few episodes of WPT will not get you ready to be a winner. You need to take it seriously or you are just another espn watching doink who is gonna lose their money. If you dont like to read or find poker books boring then give it up right now.
3) Start slow, move up slow.
Play at the play money tables for a week. Play at the 1/2 cent tables until u can beat them on a weekly basis (that means playing at a place that has the micro limits). Once you can do that than move up to 5/10 cents .. and on and on. If you are one of those "I want it now" types u have no chance, remember what i said about patience. It takes months of experience before you will be a winner. You can read a book on how to drive an 18 wheeler, watch someone driving one on tv, but until u get the proper hours driving the truck you are one mistake away from a screw up. Yes you are going to lose money for 1-4 months. Good players will start to win within a month, it took 2-3 for me. If you are not winning by the end of 4 months you need to ask yourself some questions. Expect to lose 100-300 dollars before you become a winner (I had to buy in 3 times).
4) Play like dan harrington and not gus hansen. If you dont know what this means then you have a lot of work to do before you play for real money.
Poker should be fun for you, but at the same time take it serious. The best poker players in the world play not so much for the money, but they desire to compete and beat other people.
Comments are welcome. This post is for people that are playing and losing, or seriously considering playing already. Dont start up because of it please.
I guess have the desire to become good at Poker. Ive only read one and a half book (had no time to finish the second one), and Im mostly playing freerolls with like 6k players in it, wich is fun but the possibilities to win one is smaaaaall! Won one with 4.5k players in it once tho ~~
Also ive lost some $, but its ok, I accept thats what has to happen. Im only 17 though, and it sucks, not being able to deposit on ur own. Guess ill make a serious try in a year when im 18
4) Play like dan harrington and not gus hansen. If you dont know what this means then you have a lot of work to do before you play for real money.
If you think this is true you simply aren't playing against good enough players. You're misinterpreting risky tactical play as erratic stupidity...like so many people do. Gus Hansen is a poker genius, and you only wish that you could play like him.
I think he's trying to say the best way for begginers to play is to play tight like harrington. Hes not taking anything away from gus hansens play, and thats the best way to play for pretty much anyone.
On December 27 2004 11:08 Sublime wrote: I think he's trying to say the best way for begginers to play is to play tight like harrington. Hes not taking anything away from gus hansens play, and thats the best way to play for pretty much anyone.
4) Play like dan harrington and not gus hansen. If you dont know what this means then you have a lot of work to do before you play for real money.
If you think this is true you simply aren't playing against good enough players. You're misinterpreting risky tactical play as erratic stupidity...like so many people do. Gus Hansen is a poker genius, and you only wish that you could play like him.
Gus is a genius at poker and other games. In fact if i had to choose one person to play for me with my life at stake, it would be gus. That being said i can think of no better way for a losing or starting player to lose more and faster than to play like him. His play is a combination of top 1% natural talent, huge iq, and years of experience. You dont need that to be a winning player, and this guide is written for the ppl losing money here at tl.net, not for experienced and gifted players.
No beginner should imitate a pro like Dan Harrington, just play tight and play your cards, don't go out of line and start catching a lot of bluffs etc, solid play will get you your share on the lower limits.
On December 27 2004 12:49 Dealer wrote: No beginner should imitate a pro like Dan Harrington, just play tight and play your cards, don't go out of line and start catching a lot of bluffs etc, solid play will get you your share on the lower limits.
Dan is a tight and solid player. He hardly ever goes out of line and when he does of course it ends up on television cause it dont happen a lot. When he does go out of line it is for a reason .. the other guy showed weakness, maybe a tell he picked up, he dont do it without a good reason. I would encourage starting players to play tight and solid like dan does, just like i would encourage starting protoss users to watch reps of peter and rek.
doesnt get any tighter than dan harrington, maybe phil helmuth, too i dunno. Both are really tight, but 'action dan' is nortorious for never playing a hand, but the ones he does play, he wins most.
Here is all of what i do for my first week of poker : -got 10 $ free at 7 sultans. -played limit for 3 hour .05/.1, realising it was bs. -switch to NL .05/.1 no limit. -Since then i played 4 tables at once (it really NOT hard lol, i could get more but im good with 4). -my 10 buck became 60 now.
Last session : 2 hour preflop 30 % (a little higher than usual, dunno i got card i guess) showdown won : 100 %. These table are usually very loose so i just play as tight as i can, very loose//predictable. Comment would be great thanx in advance
I got other question : i dont freking know how to bet. Hands i have no clue how to bet : -AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK, preflop -Highest pair very-good/good kicker remember i play LOW nl. I would like the answer in Bet (ex :1 big bet) -I usually call my small pair , hoping to get a trip. -call Axs for flush -call suited connector over 9 and any two faced cars(akqj) Comment?
Mhh, I never played Poker in my life (somehow still now the 'rules') but it sounds fun... Can someone recommend a free programm were I can play a bit against the comp? Or maybe a beginner's guide? thx
On December 27 2004 14:39 Izenra wrote: Here is all of what i do for my first week of poker : -got 10 $ free at 7 sultans. -played limit for 3 hour .05/.1, realising it was bs. -switch to NL .05/.1 no limit. -Since then i played 4 tables at once (it really NOT hard lol, i could get more but im good with 4). -my 10 buck became 60 now.
Last session : 2 hour preflop 30 % (a little higher than usual, dunno i got card i guess) showdown won : 100 %. These table are usually very loose so i just play as tight as i can, very loose//predictable. Comment would be great thanx in advance
I got other question : i dont freking know how to bet. Hands i have no clue how to bet : -AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK, preflop -Highest pair very-good/good kicker remember i play LOW nl. I would like the answer in Bet (ex :1 big bet) -I usually call my small pair , hoping to get a trip. -call Axs for flush -call suited connector over 9 and any two faced cars(akqj) Comment?
Thanx in advance :D
Good start. I like how you are playing 5/10 cent and have not gotten greedy and tried to move up.
As far as how to play your hands, that is what the poker books are for
The only other comment I have is that sometimes calling with any 2 face cards is wrong (but not too often). If a very tight player raises before you then it is best to lay jack queen off suit down. Even if the flop comes queen high you might be up against kq or aq and have a good chance to lose a lot of money. If someoene that is decent player raises pre flop look for a reason to fold.
how much should i expect to win(a winning tight player) at a nl table? let's say 2 hour? are the result somehow going toward a point, like i duno 10 big bet. As for for me, i get usually 10 bucks from 4 table 5/10 cent, 2 hours. just to ask because this is why of the ''Expected wins'' of the limit poker(1 big bet //hour = 10 cent for 5/10 cent table ) that i switch to nl 1 hour after playing for the first time limit
On December 27 2004 21:13 Izenra wrote: how much should i expect to win(a winning tight player) at a nl table? let's say 2 hour? are the result somehow going toward a point, like i duno 10 big bet. As for for me, i get usually 10 bucks from 4 table 5/10 cent, 2 hours. just to ask because this is why of the ''Expected wins'' of the limit poker(1 big bet //hour = 10 cent for 5/10 cent table ) that i switch to nl 1 hour after playing for the first time limit
If you are a tight winning player just keep track of your sessions and see what limit and game works best for you. This post was really meant for the tl.net ppl that are new or are not winning players yet. All you ppl that are winning consistantly dont need my help. BTW i like limit better than no limit.
people should realize folding is what makes you a good player
you gotta know when you are beat,,, this is wut made me lose alot i always called if i had a pretty hand,, I never knew how to throw down premium hands I learned alot from experience and that experience costs alot =(
Dont start from online poker.. play alot of home games with your friends where you can see there hands even if you fold before showdown
Haha i got joy's deal and my bankroll is $190 now IM RISING!!!!!!!! YAY
)is(honest, yea that what i found the hardest part, i made the error, but not for long. I always thought the other was bluffing me, i called and lose right away . (I think) you just gotta know how to bet accordingly. The best example are three of a kind on flop :
u have 3d3h flop come 4s3sqs. This case, happened a fucking lot to me. You just can't assume you will win this. 2 spade from someone is somehow possible, put there a chance that a fourth spade come. Four spade= no thx im out. You just got to fold relatively good hand when the flop is scary, or that someone overbet
hmm can someone give me advice well i started playing real money about 2-3 weeks ago lost about 300 however ive won 200 back now i play 1/2 because 05/1 too damn slow anyways my question is should i start playing more tables at a time now? or continuing playing 1 table
WOA! i started 2 week ago, played one table. hhahaha so UNEFFECTIVE. I play 4 now, and it's damn easy dont worry(if you are over average intelligence//reflexe//etc. I could play more table, but the software only allow me 5. I dont play five cuz 4 fit the best way in my screen. With 5 i would have to switch 1024x728 to some tiny 1600x1200 shit. And i didnt lose, in fact i make 2x the buy-in of one table in 1 hour. (example : 10 buy-in 5/10 cent, table 1- 9.00 (i just got no card) table 2-13 table 3-15 table 4-13)
you see much more hand. if your goal is to become good, well that the way.
On December 28 2004 20:25 PhiGgoT wrote: hmm can someone give me advice well i started playing real money about 2-3 weeks ago lost about 300 however ive won 200 back now i play 1/2 because 05/1 too damn slow anyways my question is should i start playing more tables at a time now? or continuing playing 1 table
Read my post slowly. The fact that you are not winning yet and you have already moved up in limits is very bad. If you want to learn how to play and win in the long term -- follow the steps i outlined. You should win at a limit for at least 3 weeks in a row before you THINK ABOUT moving up. EDIT - it is ok to play more than 1 table, play what you feel comfortable with.
reason : let's say you a normal table is like 50 hand per hour, let even say a relatively fast one 60(for practical use)
you see 25 % maximum of the hand to be a winning player ( .25 X 60 min = 15). So, you actually playing 15 minute out of one hour. the other 45 is mostly wasted in time/money.
i play 4 table, witch bring me to be (statistically) always focussing and playing.
two things that really make the difference between winners and losers
1. folding when you dont have the best hand. you really have to be able to feel out what the other guy has. If you have something like AK and a king flops, dont just assume you have the best hand, think it through and if your man is betting like he has a set, you might want to throw your hand away.
2. knowing how to get more bets out of people. i was playing in a tourney tonight and some guy flopped top set, which was the nuts and he pushed everyone out. that's stupid, be smart and get as many bets as possible out of people.
these two things should be very obvious, dont waste money on lost hands and make as much money as you can on won hands. but they are very hard to actually do in practice consistently
-take notes on players, especially players you see often, it helps a whole lot
-always consider what your opponent could have, not just what you have...if you have top 2 pair and you're seeing a lot of action in front of you, consider the board and what they could be betting with...sets are always a possibility, maybe the board is showing a straight, or a flush.
-NEVER EVER EVER play out of your bankroll, its just dumb, playing with scared money is an easy way to burn your money and leave a horrible taste in your mouth. 8x the max buyin i think is a pretty good rule of what limits you should be playing
-sort of like the top one, but never buyin for anything but the maximum, if you do you're only limiting how much money you can make (or limiting how much you could lose, but if you lose playing poker then you shouldn't be playing at all anyway).
-avoid "2nd best" hands...these guys can get you in a whole lot of trouble. these are typically hands like KJ, QJ, KQ, or AJ...hands where you end up with high pair but get outkicked. on the other hand try and get your opponent into situations where he's holding the 2nd best hand, like AA vs KQ with a K on flop...or limping with AK on a tight table hitting an A on flop...these can make you an awful lot of money.
-and my personal favorite...mix up your playing style (maybe not so much on real low limits where people aren't smart enough to actually pin you on a certain style). for instance, if you're playing very tight, try throwing out some good bluffs, you may find you can scare some pretty strong hands out of some pretty big pots. the opposite is also true, if you're playing pretty loosely, try doing the same with a strong hand and you may catch some people overplaying high pairs.
I've never read a poker book, I have no patience for idiots (I usually tell them to go kill themselves and then I link them to a "How to tie a noose" page). I didn't start slow really, though I don't play much high stakes rings. Not sure how either of them plays so i dunno
I'm not sure how i became good at poker, but take scrapperdog's advice, it's good. Although I'm not entirely sure how much poker books can really help, I personally think it's first-hand experience. Experience traps and stuff and get beaten and taken for money...
Also what I advise: say you're in a hand with a good hand and you're betting through, get the hand history and see what ur opponent mucked so you can get a better understanding of what idiots play.
On December 29 2004 08:51 FrinkX wrote: holy crap I'm not any of those things
I've never read a poker book, I have no patience for idiots (I usually tell them to go kill themselves and then I link them to a "How to tie a noose" page). I didn't start slow really, though I don't play much high stakes rings. Not sure how either of them plays so i dunno
I'm not sure how i became good at poker, but take scrapperdog's advice, it's good. Although I'm not entirely sure how much poker books can really help, I personally think it's first-hand experience. Experience traps and stuff and get beaten and taken for money...
Also what I advise: say you're in a hand with a good hand and you're betting through, get the hand history and see what ur opponent mucked so you can get a better understanding of what idiots play.
Trust me frinkx the books will give you an edge, but nothing can beat experience. I know you are a tourneyment player and you really should read TJ's or Slansky's book on tourneyment play. It might only help your game 1% because u are already good, but every edge counts.
Also some people are naturally good at things. Peons~rice was playing for 6 months and was a far better BW player than me with my 4 years of playing experience at the time. But there is a reason we dont put new drivers in the indy 500 ... there is a 99% chance they are gonna crash and the driver is gonna get burned. Some people can step right in and win at poker, but in the long run following my advice, starting slow ect ect will be right for the 99% who would otherwise crash. Thx for your endorsement of my post, as most ppl in this forum respect your poker skills. The only reason I posted this and continue to respond is TL.NET owns, and I want the regulars here who play poker to become winners.
On December 29 2004 08:51 FrinkX wrote: holy crap I'm not any of those things
I've never read a poker book, I have no patience for idiots (I usually tell them to go kill themselves and then I link them to a "How to tie a noose" page). I didn't start slow really, though I don't play much high stakes rings. Not sure how either of them plays so i dunno
I'm not sure how i became good at poker, but take scrapperdog's advice, it's good. Although I'm not entirely sure how much poker books can really help, I personally think it's first-hand experience. Experience traps and stuff and get beaten and taken for money...
Also what I advise: say you're in a hand with a good hand and you're betting through, get the hand history and see what ur opponent mucked so you can get a better understanding of what idiots play.
Trust me frinkx the books will give you an edge, but nothing can beat experience. I know you are a tourneyment player and you really should read TJ's or Slansky's book on tourneyment play. It might only help your game 1% because u are already good, but every edge counts.
Also some people are naturally good at things. Peons~rice was playing for 6 months and was a far better BW player than me with my 4 years of playing experience at the time. But there is a reason we dont put new drivers in the indy 500 ... there is a 99% chance they are gonna crash and the driver is gonna get burned. Some people can step right in and win at poker, but in the long run following my advice, starting slow ect ect will be right for the 99% who would otherwise crash. Thx for your endorsement of my post, as most ppl in this forum respect your poker skills. The only reason I posted this and continue to respond is TL.NET owns, and I want the regulars here who play poker to become winners.
book = $15 1% = thousands
maybe i'll look into it. i tried reading super system but i decided brunson doesn't know wtf he's talking about so i threw it out
the great Johnster of pokerstars (very good tourney player, he's got like 11k pts on the TLB) gave me the great advice that if you aren't getting good cards u should switch to the red deck. That's the power deck, but only do it late in a tourney if ur stack is running low, it'll give u a huge rush
if that doesn't work stick with the teal deck, that'll just give u gl
to be a winning player, you just got to play vs idiot : example :
me AdQs, flop come all diamond. I see the turn cheaply, another diamond fall. I have the nut.
The guy bet .50, i call.
river bring nothing. he again bet .50. I raise 1 dollar, he reraise me, 2, i reraise, 4, he freaking goes all-in... haha idiot, i call. he had kind of diamond, but my ace beat him. The guy was so dumb, if im willinh to re-raise him twice , i got something P. idiot.
wow i made 40 buck in 1.5 hour at 5/10 cent. REally people are idiot.
Can anyone tell me a good betting structure? Like when you want to suck ppl in the pot when you think u got all of em beat or When your drawing to a straight or flush whateva
On December 29 2004 22:08 )Is(Honest wrote: Can anyone tell me a good betting structure? Like when you want to suck ppl in the pot when you think u got all of em beat or When your drawing to a straight or flush whateva
Englighten this nub!!!!!
Honest, poker is complex. That is why they write books about it. How you might bet depends on what lvl u are playing at, how good the players your are playing against are, how the other players at the table see you, if you have just been caught bluffing, is the table tight, loose, agressive, calling stations, and about 50 other factors. For example .. if you have been caught bluffing recently they are probably gonna call you down with any decent hand, dont worry as much as you usually would about betting them out. Once you get a lot of experience you can boil down all these factors into a 1 second decision. It seems to me you are trying to take shortcuts... follow my advice and read a good book on how to play poker, you either want to be a long term winner or you dont....
Honest, poker is complex. That is why they write books about it. How you might bet depends on what lvl u are playing at, how good the players your are playing against are, how the other players at the table see you, if you have just been caught bluffing, is the table tight, loose, agressive, calling stations, and about 50 other factors. For example .. if you have been caught bluffing recently they are probably gonna call you down with any decent hand, dont worry as much as you usually would about betting them out. Once you get a lot of experience you can boil down all these factors into a 1 second decision. It seems to me you are trying to take shortcuts... follow my advice and read a good book on how to play poker, you either want to be a long term winner or you dont....
yeah, I recently read Super system and it didn't help me much... I'll cop Theory of poker tomorrow and i'll see how it goes... Btw is people on party poker better at midnight? cuz i built my bankroll up to 250 durin day time and i just lost it all on midnight... nyeh haha
The people who play late at night are usually more hardcore than the people that play during the evening. In the evening you run across a lot of players blowing off steam from a days work, late at night you run into poker addicts and the quality of play is higher. The answer to your question .. yes.
On December 29 2004 22:08 )Is(Honest wrote: Can anyone tell me a good betting structure? Like when you want to suck ppl in the pot when you think u got all of em beat or When your drawing to a straight or flush whateva
Englighten this nub!!!!!
My blind structure : preflop : AA-KK -> i tried a lot of stuff : 5 big bet early position, 7.5 late position.
AK-> 2 or 3 big bet to get some stupid hand out Im not crazy about JJ and TT, because if i raise, only hand A to Q will stay and there is good chance i get beat.
when you flop the nut, there a bunch of thing you gotta look for : was there a preflop raiser? if so, check and let him bet. then -reraise if you are not likely to improve and there is chances you get beat in later round -call the bettor. Usually they got top pair and get piss off being called to the turn=raise the bet
if there was no preflop raiser, play it like you got something, but not the nut. like if you had the top pair average kiker => 2-3 big bet
On December 28 2004 23:07 BigBalls wrote: two things that really make the difference between winners and losers
1. folding when you dont have the best hand. you really have to be able to feel out what the other guy has. If you have something like AK and a king flops, dont just assume you have the best hand, think it through and if your man is betting like he has a set, you might want to throw your hand away.
I could not agree with you more. In fact, one of the hardest things to do is lay down what used to be a nice hand when it is looking like it is not good anymore. The pro's will tell you this is one of the hardest things to do in poker. Only in poker does the person that comes in 2nd best actually comes in last.
On December 30 2004 10:33 Servolisk wrote: Changing decks? Why would that make a difference?
LoL no it's a joke between me and Johnster
ROFL i'm in a 10r right now i got a big stack.... this just cracks me up:
PokerStars Game #1017535091: Tournament #4179895, Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2004/12/30 - 13:38:13 (ET) Table '4179895 28' Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: ViCiouSRaGe (2324 in chips) Seat 2: MyThreeKings (3380 in chips) Seat 3: PokerDanimal (3193 in chips) Seat 4: fiestagrande (28950 in chips) Seat 5: FrinkX (47711 in chips) Seat 6: BENZZBOY (4450 in chips) is sitting out Seat 7: Simbaboy (22128 in chips) Seat 8: uw ox (5988 in chips) Seat 9: oldjasper (12896 in chips) ViCiouSRaGe: posts the ante 50 MyThreeKings: posts the ante 50 PokerDanimal: posts the ante 50 fiestagrande: posts the ante 50 FrinkX: posts the ante 50 BENZZBOY: posts the ante 50 Simbaboy: posts the ante 50 uw ox: posts the ante 50 oldjasper: posts the ante 50 fiestagrande: posts small blind 300 FrinkX: posts big blind 600 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to FrinkX [9s 7c] BENZZBOY: folds Simbaboy: calls 600 uw ox: folds oldjasper: folds ViCiouSRaGe: folds MyThreeKings: folds PokerDanimal: folds fiestagrande: calls 300 FrinkX: checks *** FLOP *** [3d 3c 3h] fiestagrande: checks FrinkX: checks Simbaboy: checks *** TURN *** [3d 3c 3h] [9c] fiestagrande: checks FrinkX: bets 1200 Simbaboy: calls 1200 fiestagrande: calls 1200 *** RIVER *** [3d 3c 3h 9c] [5c] fiestagrande: bets 1800 FrinkX: calls 1800 Simbaboy: folds *** SHOW DOWN *** fiestagrande: shows [Kc 6c] (a flush, King high) FrinkX: shows [9s 7c] (a full house, Threes full of Nines) FrinkX collected 9450 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 9450 | Rake 0 Board [3d 3c 3h 9c 5c] Seat 1: ViCiouSRaGe folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: MyThreeKings folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: PokerDanimal (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: fiestagrande (small blind) showed [Kc 6c] and lost with a flush, King high Seat 5: FrinkX (big blind) showed [9s 7c] and won (9450) with a full house, Threes full of Nines Seat 6: BENZZBOY folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: Simbaboy folded on the River Seat 8: uw ox folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: oldjasper folded before Flop (didn't bet)
On December 31 2004 07:43 Milzo wrote: Which books would you recommend to a beginner? Thx.
Depends on if you want to play limit or no limit. Tell me which one and i will help ya out. BTW you guys that refuse to read the books. I am up 310$ this week playing 7 card stud and i have never read a stud book... dont know what to say.
I know there has been some discussion on whether PP is fixed or not, it just seems kind of odd to me that in the 1 day I have been playing there (about 5 hrs) I have had 2 royal flushes, and 4 4 of a kinds. Other than that I have been beaten on the river or lost to 4 of a kind pocket pairs for most of my stack. I have had more 4kinds/royals than I have caught a straight or a flush draw which is about never.
Maybe Im playing too loose.
What do you guys like to play pre-flop with a table that likes to see the flop?
I usually play suited connectors since I can catch ppl offguard with the flush or straight but it just seems like people are going in with whatever. Add to that I have a better chance it seems catching my 4 of a kind or royal flush than a friggin str8 or noraml flush. What do you guys do with Ax0 as well?
On December 31 2004 13:13 Triton wrote: I know there has been some discussion on whether PP is fixed or not, it just seems kind of odd to me that in the 1 day I have been playing there (about 5 hrs) I have had 2 royal flushes, and 4 4 of a kinds. Other than that I have been beaten on the river or lost to 4 of a kind pocket pairs for most of my stack. I have had more 4kinds/royals than I have caught a straight or a flush draw which is about never. ?
Look bro I always know when someone is new or an idiot when they start talking about poker being fixed. Partypoker or stars does not in any way fix their games. How do i know that? Pokerstars just dealt their 1 billionth hand ... all without ever having to pay a dealer. Think of the amount of money that is at stake here. If it ever came out that a poker site was fixed that site would be done, over, out of business. Why would they risk it when they can have the bank truck come deliver them loads of money by running a fair game? Also, there is software that lets you analize your hands, thousands at a time ... if it was not random that would come out quickly with the poker tracker programs. So ... unless u want to identify yourself as a fish plz no talk of poker being fixed.
I dont think that it is fixed, it just seems really fucked up that I have caught two royal flush draws and that doubles the amount of flush draws I have caught. Im just getting frustrated cause I never catch anything on the flop. Ive caught more 4 of a kinds on flop than I have triples as well, even counting pairs on board
also, is there any hand record feature on PP that I cant find, or do I need some sort of plugin?
On December 31 2004 07:43 Milzo wrote: Which books would you recommend to a beginner? Thx.
Depends on if you want to play limit or no limit. Tell me which one and i will help ya out. BTW you guys that refuse to read the books. I am up 310$ this week playing 7 card stud and i have never read a stud book... dont know what to say.
It seems that playing no limit is the way to go in order to become a good poker player (or am I wrong?), it definitely appears more challenging and interesting, so I'd go with that.
dunno, but in limit you can't do much ~ best hand win. And even with god hand like AA, you are not getting much for it.
+ idiot in no limit get you more than limit
ex : i raise a lot AA preflop, get 4 caller(???), the flop bring me an Ace, i have three of a kind Ace. I raise a little, not too much not to scared the player. 2 fold, i reraise me all-in. the other call, i raise cap for the other not all-in, he call.
I only saw the idiot who re-raise : he had A5o.
Let's look why he's an idiot.
PReflop raise with ace= your ace is pretty much owned by a better kiker, but he's an idiot didnt realise it flop : a pair of aces. I raise= i have at least an ace(tho i had 2 lol. and if i have only one ace, my kiker probably kills you. But he's an idiot and didnt realise it
On December 31 2004 21:23 Izenra wrote: dunno, but in limit you can't do much ~ best hand win. And even with god hand like AA, you are not getting much for it. + idiot in no limit get you more than limit ex : i raise a lot AA preflop, get 4 caller(???), the flop bring me an Ace, i have three of a kind Ace. I raise a little, not too much not to scared the player. 2 fold, i reraise me all-in. the other call, i raise cap for the other not all-in, he call. I only saw the idiot who re-raise : he had A5o.
Arg this is a complete myth. Good starting hands are even more important in limit than no limit cause u cant bluff a person off their hand.
Let me explain the real difference between limit and no limit. 1) In limit more ppl see the flop and will call you down will lesser hands than in nl 2)Limit is a game of draws, while nl is a game of high cards
Ok here is an example that will clarify. In a no-limit game 4 ppl see the flop, you dont hit a pair but you hit 4 to a flush. The guy with top pair makes a good size bet, everyone but the 4 to the flush folds. What is going to happen to the 4 to the flush guy? In most cases nothing good. Why? 1) He is now putting in 50% of the money in the hand and he only has a 40% chance to make the flush. 2) If another flush card does come, the person with top pair is gonna slow down and getting a lot more money out of him is gonna be hard.
Take the same situation in limit poker. 4 ppl see the flop. Someone hits top pair and makes a bet, while you have 4 to a flush. This usually is very good. Why? 1) in limit poker more ppl stay in hands. Most of the time at least 3 ppl are gonna stay in this hand, no matter what hits the board. 2) instead of being in a defensive check, call situation praying for a flush that might not come and even if it does come might not pay you off, you now are the table leader. Why? Well with 3 ppl in the hand you are putting 33% of the money in a hand that has 40% chance to win. It is not uncommon to see 6-7 ppl take the flop in a 25/50 limit holdem game, while it would be somewhat rare in a no limit game. Things like this mean there is a huge difference in strategy for limit and no limit.
Limit is every bit as complex and challenging as no limit, and you can win just as much money if not more. At pokerstars if you go to the high $ limit tables you will see they are restricted. You need special permission to play at them, and if you dont have a solid winning record then pokerstars is gonna call you and try and talk you out of playing high $ limit games cause u have no chance. The average pot in the high $ limit games is well over 2k, where that would be a huge pot on the high $ no limit games.
All that being said ... everyone says super/system has the best nl advice possible. Super/systems is outdated on some of their games but not on the no limit section. GL and btw limit > no limit.
EDIT- To all you guys i am saying are wrong, dont take it personal. This is real money we are talking about here so I am gonna be be as honest as possible and not try and sooth anyones feelings, hope u can respect that even if I cut you down.
On January 01 2005 13:03 Izenra wrote: scrapperdog, I don't agree with you .
Well for my personnal experience, i can say that in limit i can make 30 buck an hour. I have much harder time in limit. And about that idiot people, what i mean is when you flop a monster hand, i can usually suck up more in no limit than limit. btw, no limit>limit p.s. no one is playing the high limit stake hehe (100/200) here
Wow 30 buck an hour aint bad at all. You should stay where you are sucessful.
I am gonna be honest as to why I like limit better than no limit. I am really good about waiting for quality starting hands. But if i am not playing 100% (my kid is running around yelling, that kind of stuff) I can be outplayed after the flop. On limit your mistakes are minimized, and really just playing good cards and betting them will win you money on the 25/50 tables. On no limit 5 min of tilt or 1 bad beat can erase 2 hours of good play, that is just not gonna happen on limit. Also i am kind of a % guy and odds guy. I play the %'s when they are in my favor and know all the odds.
On no-limit you need to be more of a poker player, as in a cobra ready to stike when u think the prey is weak, ect ect. Also reads are huge in NL, look at that rek hand he posted with the queens for example. In limit reads are harder cause there is a fixed betting amount. Odds and outs guys are better at limit, predators who also can read are better at nl. A lot depends on your playing style and if you are a risk taker or want more steady type money. Congrats tho bro, 30 bucks an hour is doing damn good.
BTW this weeks world poker tour episode is a LIMIT tourneyment, no the same old nl they show every week so i would encourage ppl to watch it.
On December 31 2004 21:23 Izenra wrote: dunno, but in limit you can't do much ~ best hand win. And even with god hand like AA, you are not getting much for it. + idiot in no limit get you more than limit ex : i raise a lot AA preflop, get 4 caller(???), the flop bring me an Ace, i have three of a kind Ace. I raise a little, not too much not to scared the player. 2 fold, i reraise me all-in. the other call, i raise cap for the other not all-in, he call. I only saw the idiot who re-raise : he had A5o.
Arg this is a complete myth. Good starting hands are even more important in limit than no limit cause u cant bluff a person off their hand.
Let me explain the real difference between limit and no limit. 1) In limit more ppl see the flop and will call you down will lesser hands than in nl 2)Limit is a game of draws, while nl is a game of high cards
Ok here is an example that will clarify. In a no-limit game 4 ppl see the flop, you dont hit a pair but you hit 4 to a flush. The guy with top pair makes a good size bet, everyone but the 4 to the flush folds. What is going to happen to the 4 to the flush guy? In most cases nothing good. Why? 1) He is now putting in 50% of the money in the hand and he only has a 40% chance to make the flush. 2) If another flush card does come, the person with top pair is gonna slow down and getting a lot more money out of him is gonna be hard.
Take the same situation in limit poker. 4 ppl see the flop. Someone hits top pair and makes a bet, while you have 4 to a flush. This usually is very good. Why? 1) in limit poker more ppl stay in hands. Most of the time at least 3 ppl are gonna stay in this hand, no matter what hits the board. 2) instead of being in a defensive check, call situation praying for a flush that might not come and even if it does come might not pay you off, you now are the table leader. Why? Well with 3 ppl in the hand you are putting 33% of the money in a hand that has 40% chance to win. It is not uncommon to see 6-7 ppl take the flop in a 25/50 limit holdem game, while it would be somewhat rare in a no limit game. Things like this mean there is a huge difference in strategy for limit and no limit.
Limit is every bit as complex and challenging as no limit, and you can win just as much money if not more. At pokerstars if you go to the high $ limit tables you will see they are restricted. You need special permission to play at them, and if you dont have a solid winning record then pokerstars is gonna call you and try and talk you out of playing high $ limit games cause u have no chance. The average pot in the high $ limit games is well over 2k, where that would be a huge pot on the high $ no limit games.
All that being said ... everyone says super/system has the best nl advice possible. Super/systems is outdated on some of their games but not on the no limit section. GL and btw limit > no limit.
EDIT- To all you guys i am saying are wrong, dont take it personal. This is real money we are talking about here so I am gonna be be as honest as possible and not try and sooth anyones feelings, hope u can respect that even if I cut you down.
are you serious? come on man...dont play draws in NL? its about high cards? honestly, i hope everyone listens to you for my benefit
the reason i prefer limit to no limit is overpair v overpair, overpair v set, top pair top kicker v overpair/set. if i sense danger i can check call down to be safe in limit where as in NL i have to make a black and white choice and often times i lose all my money by going all in on a flop. in limit, i sometimes dont feel scared until the turn or river and by then i can smarten up and save some money. i guess i do win more money at times this way too.
i just seem to have HUGE swings in NL and i like the stability of limit better
On January 01 2005 17:14 BigBalls wrote: the reason i prefer limit to no limit is overpair v overpair, overpair v set, top pair top kicker v overpair/set. if i sense danger i can check call down to be safe in limit where as in NL i have to make a black and white choice and often times i lose all my money by going all in on a flop. in limit, i sometimes dont feel scared until the turn or river and by then i can smarten up and save some money. i guess i do win more money at times this way too.
i just seem to have HUGE swings in NL and i like the stability of limit better
yeah this can hurt, but keep in mind it does go both ways...you can hit a set vs overpair etc. and i've found players (atleast where i play, .5/1) absolutely refuse to fold overpairs even when the board is very dangerous.
yea first my last message had an error, im no limit 30 buck an hour.
and I think that the best player in no limit will win. Since now, i rarely do any major mistake because people are just so easy to read, even at limit .25/.50. I mean sometimes i get bad beaten, but i get much more big pot in average.
bad beate : i have AA, flop bring KdQs6s. i raise, the guy goes all in. The guy has QTs. he freaking rivered his Q to three of a kind
On December 31 2004 21:23 Izenra wrote: dunno, but in limit you can't do much ~ best hand win. And even with god hand like AA, you are not getting much for it. + idiot in no limit get you more than limit ex : i raise a lot AA preflop, get 4 caller(???), the flop bring me an Ace, i have three of a kind Ace. I raise a little, not too much not to scared the player. 2 fold, i reraise me all-in. the other call, i raise cap for the other not all-in, he call. I only saw the idiot who re-raise : he had A5o.
Arg this is a complete myth. Good starting hands are even more important in limit than no limit cause u cant bluff a person off their hand.
Let me explain the real difference between limit and no limit. 1) In limit more ppl see the flop and will call you down will lesser hands than in nl 2)Limit is a game of draws, while nl is a game of high cards
Ok here is an example that will clarify. In a no-limit game 4 ppl see the flop, you dont hit a pair but you hit 4 to a flush. The guy with top pair makes a good size bet, everyone but the 4 to the flush folds. What is going to happen to the 4 to the flush guy? In most cases nothing good. Why? 1) He is now putting in 50% of the money in the hand and he only has a 40% chance to make the flush. 2) If another flush card does come, the person with top pair is gonna slow down and getting a lot more money out of him is gonna be hard.
Take the same situation in limit poker. 4 ppl see the flop. Someone hits top pair and makes a bet, while you have 4 to a flush. This usually is very good. Why? 1) in limit poker more ppl stay in hands. Most of the time at least 3 ppl are gonna stay in this hand, no matter what hits the board. 2) instead of being in a defensive check, call situation praying for a flush that might not come and even if it does come might not pay you off, you now are the table leader. Why? Well with 3 ppl in the hand you are putting 33% of the money in a hand that has 40% chance to win. It is not uncommon to see 6-7 ppl take the flop in a 25/50 limit holdem game, while it would be somewhat rare in a no limit game. Things like this mean there is a huge difference in strategy for limit and no limit.
Limit is every bit as complex and challenging as no limit, and you can win just as much money if not more. At pokerstars if you go to the high $ limit tables you will see they are restricted. You need special permission to play at them, and if you dont have a solid winning record then pokerstars is gonna call you and try and talk you out of playing high $ limit games cause u have no chance. The average pot in the high $ limit games is well over 2k, where that would be a huge pot on the high $ no limit games.
All that being said ... everyone says super/system has the best nl advice possible. Super/systems is outdated on some of their games but not on the no limit section. GL and btw limit > no limit.
EDIT- To all you guys i am saying are wrong, dont take it personal. This is real money we are talking about here so I am gonna be be as honest as possible and not try and sooth anyones feelings, hope u can respect that even if I cut you down.
are you serious? come on man...dont play draws in NL? its about high cards? honestly, i hope everyone listens to you for my benefit
I am not saying dont play draws i am saying draws are not as good in NL as they are limit (with the exception of semi-bluffing... The person with the made hand can make you pay to draw and then decide not to pay you off if you hit. In limit there are more multi-way pots (which favors the person with the draw) and players are way more likely to call when a scare card hits. Read exactly what i wrote and tell me what you disagree with. Not what u think i might have wrote or half of what i wrote ... read the whole thing slowly.
you can do much more. in limit, you are just following the rulz badly. you can't knock out a player, they just always call. You have no choice but to get the best hand
my 2 hour just finish : .25/.50 NL HE 4 table 80 buck earn. If i was on limit, i woulda get 4 buck.
Here is an example of how playin can be good.
I had this tight image and i was again a guy 1v1 on the flop. The pot was rather big. The flop come and three club fall on the flop. he bets poorly , i reraise immediately, he fold. And, i had absolutely nothing in my hand.
On January 01 2005 20:09 Izenra wrote: again, why i like no limit more.
you can do much more. in limit, you are just following the rulz badly. you can't knock out a player, they just always call. You have no choice but to get the best hand
my 2 hour just finish : .25/.50 NL HE 4 table 80 buck earn. If i was on limit, i woulda get 4 buck.
Here is an example of how playin can be good.
I had this tight image and i was again a guy 1v1 on the flop. The pot was rather big. The flop come and three club fall on the flop. he bets poorly , i reraise immediately, he fold. And, i had absolutely nothing in my hand.
In limit, you cannot do this kind of plan.
Everyone has their preference bro. Each type of poker is different and certain types of poker fit certain ppl better. I do encourage ppl to play all the types to see what works best for them.
Ive been keeping track of my recent poker sessions.
So far ive played for 9:40 and im up 118 bucks. In NL i find myself up 60, down 75, up 100, down 40, etc. Im all over the place, i dont like that sort of uncertainty, especially when my stack on partypoker is only about 375 right now after taking out 200 to play on pokerstars and to give to my dad.
On January 01 2005 20:09 Izenra wrote: again, why i like no limit more.
you can do much more. in limit, you are just following the rulz badly. you can't knock out a player, they just always call. You have no choice but to get the best hand
my 2 hour just finish : .25/.50 NL HE 4 table 80 buck earn. If i was on limit, i woulda get 4 buck.
Here is an example of how playin can be good.
I had this tight image and i was again a guy 1v1 on the flop. The pot was rather big. The flop come and three club fall on the flop. he bets poorly , i reraise immediately, he fold. And, i had absolutely nothing in my hand.
In limit, you cannot do this kind of plan.
that also works both ways. In NL i LOVE using the weak lead when i flop a monster. I make a weak bet at the pot to make it look like im making a poor attempt at buying it and if the player tries to reraise me all in, i have him trapped.
I've just started playing Poker at PartyPoker and going easy with the 0.5/1 tables.
Do you (the top players here) recommend NL or Limits? Ive been playing Limits, but it's very hard to bluff and the luck of the draw seems to have a much larger effect on the game.
The only problem is low level (0.5/1) NL doesnt exist of PartyPoker (I found this out after i signed up )
Should i switch to PokerStars and the NL or just keep at it? Some tips on Limit play would be cool too, cause I'm finding most of the time I'm only winning/losing due to luck of the draw.
On January 14 2005 07:41 RowdierBob wrote: I've just started playing Poker at PartyPoker and going easy with the 0.5/1 tables.
Do you (the top players here) recommend NL or Limits? Ive been playing Limits, but it's very hard to bluff and the luck of the draw seems to have a much larger effect on the game.
The only problem is low level (0.5/1) NL doesnt exist of PartyPoker (I found this out after i signed up )
Should i switch to PokerStars and the NL or just keep at it? Some tips on Limit play would be cool too, cause I'm finding most of the time I'm only winning/losing due to luck of the draw.
Thx
In low limit limit poker you have to show the best hand down to win. That is not luck of the draw. That is waiting for quality hands, hitting top pair on the flop and betting it. The beauty of limit poker is that bluffing is not a big part of it for good players at medium and low lvls. Yes there will be lots of bluffing going on, but not by you. Bluffing is more of an advanced strategy in both limit and nl. There is way too much bluffing going on in my opinion. Yes I will bluff, but only when I have a reason to feel it is gonna work. That means I am in position and the other player has shown true weakness. Or because a scare card hit that nobody claims to own. You see ppl handing over their stacks in NL constantly bacause of bad bluffs. Have a reason to think you bluff is gonna work before you run one. This takes experience at the table and knowing your player types.
EPT
) that i switch to nl 1 hour after playing for the first time limit
P. idiot.
