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On November 09 2013 16:15 caelym wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 05:22 Judicator wrote:
Lily isn't that great against Sneak Show decks, not sure where you are getting this notion from. If they Show-Tell a Griselbrand into play you are actually just dead unless they just did stone nothing but take damage.
This is why people are telling you to audible into a different deck if you really want to play in Legacy. I would recommend Hymn too, but your mana base is too flimsy by Legacy standards that I am not sure if Hymn isn't a break even at that point rather than a powerful effect.
Also, moonbear do us commoners not have access to bullet points?
Edit:
Like you are dead to RUG if they Wasteland you at all, dead to BUG if they cascade anything of value and you have tough time against Decay, Punishing Jund just destroys you (though to be fair it destroys WB in general), you are only average against the most popular combo decks. Dunno, I wish you the best of luck. Rest in Peace some times is too slow against Dredge though so just be aware of that.
Edit2:
Thanks MoonBear, good to know. Wasteland is going to give me hell :/ I don't think there's much I can do unless I go mono-color or combo (both of which I'd have to get 95% of the cards for, even if it's budget).
Fetch lands + basics works wonders. Once this deck has about a plains and a swamp + any other land it's set to go. It depends on the matchup.
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On November 09 2013 08:08 hunts wrote:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/esper-08-11-13-2/ So this is my esper deck, was wanting some advice/suggestions on how to improve it. Also I'm using fewer sphinx's revelations and jaces than the other esper decks because they are quite expensive for MTGO.
Why is Esper so much more played compared to, let's say URW?
At first I thought that it was the Scry lands, but then I heard people talk about how Esper needs every card and that the Scry isn't that important in the deck.
Is Hero's Downfall just that good?
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Thoughtseize and downfall are big. Also uwr kinda sucks.
Also fetching basics when you don't NEED a dual is an important skill to learn.
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On November 09 2013 21:49 Airact wrote:Why is Esper so much more played compared to, let's say URW? At first I thought that it was the Scry lands, but then I heard people talk about how Esper needs every card and that the Scry isn't that important in the deck. Is Hero's Downfall just that good?
Good stuff deck.
Esper has the best removal, best aoe, best card draw, and best utility spells in the game.
It also has the worse mana base, the easiest to hose mana base, the slowest start, highly weak to all out Aggro decks, etc...
All the other variations (UW, UWR, UB, UBR, etc...) are simply weaker versions of Esper power wise. UW has relevance because it's mana base is better so it has something that Esper lacks.
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From my understanding the cards black offers to the control combo (thoughtseize, hero's downfall, far/away, sin collector, blood baron, doom blade) are just better than what other colors offer, although assemble the legion, counterflux, and assemble the legion are good as well, I just don't think they're as good.
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On November 10 2013 00:27 hunts wrote:
From my understanding the cards black offers to the control combo (thoughtseize, hero's downfall, far/away, sin collector, blood baron, doom blade) are just better than what other colors offer, although assemble the legion, counterflux, and assemble the legion are good as well, I just don't think they're as good.
It's also flexibility of options.
Black offers spot removal, discard, and threats
Red offers a weaker aoe, weaker removal (burn instead of destroy), better counter magic , and threats
Green offers... Uh... Threats?
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On November 10 2013 00:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 00:27 hunts wrote:
From my understanding the cards black offers to the control combo (thoughtseize, hero's downfall, far/away, sin collector, blood baron, doom blade) are just better than what other colors offer, although assemble the legion, counterflux, and assemble the legion are good as well, I just don't think they're as good. It's also flexibility of options. Black offers spot removal, discard, and threats Red offers a weaker aoe, weaker removal (burn instead of destroy), better counter magic , and threats Green offers... Uh... Threats?
Green offers mana advantage (Caryatid and possibly Deathrite), most efficient creatures, and more flexible removal (Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm).
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On November 10 2013 01:02 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 00:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 10 2013 00:27 hunts wrote:
From my understanding the cards black offers to the control combo (thoughtseize, hero's downfall, far/away, sin collector, blood baron, doom blade) are just better than what other colors offer, although assemble the legion, counterflux, and assemble the legion are good as well, I just don't think they're as good. It's also flexibility of options. Black offers spot removal, discard, and threats Red offers a weaker aoe, weaker removal (burn instead of destroy), better counter magic , and threats Green offers... Uh... Threats? Green offers mana advantage (Caryatid and possibly Deathrite), most efficient creatures, and more flexible removal (Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm).
UBG control?
Huh, never seen that. I kind of like the idea to be honest lol
It won't have AoE though
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On November 09 2013 23:57 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 21:49 Airact wrote:On November 09 2013 08:08 hunts wrote:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/esper-08-11-13-2/ So this is my esper deck, was wanting some advice/suggestions on how to improve it. Also I'm using fewer sphinx's revelations and jaces than the other esper decks because they are quite expensive for MTGO. Why is Esper so much more played compared to, let's say URW? At first I thought that it was the Scry lands, but then I heard people talk about how Esper needs every card and that the Scry isn't that important in the deck. Is Hero's Downfall just that good? Good stuff deck. Esper has the best removal, best aoe, best card draw, and best utility spells in the game. It also has the worse mana base, the easiest to hose mana base, the slowest start, highly weak to all out Aggro decks, etc... All the other variations (UW, UWR, UB, UBR, etc...) are simply weaker versions of Esper power wise. UW has relevance because it's mana base is better so it has something that Esper lacks.
It's not a good stuff deck, it's a stabilize-then-win off of overwhelming card economy deck. None of Esper's cards actually win you the game but they work towards either drawing some obscene amount of cards from Sphinx's Revelation or just sticking an Aetherling/Elspeth.
As for power differences, the choice between UW and UBW is pretty much just meta-dependent, I am pretty sure UW just can not lose to any Red aggro variant over the long run and they realistically can't lose to RG provided they know and actually dedicate 2 slots in the board against it. So if you plan of facing Boros all day, I would so rather take UW over Esper.
Edit:
BUG isn't a deck.
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I know it's not a standard deck. But death2munkies suggested a control deck with abrupt decays and death rites. I then started thinking about liliana and jace doings 1-2 punch of card draw and board control while caryatids and polukranos hold the board.
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BUG midrange is actually a deck Christian Calcano was playing on his stream and it was performing quite well. Jace and Vraska give you tons of game against the control decks while you get the mana advantage with Caryatid and stick threats like Reaper of the Wilds, Aetherling, and Polukranos to beat your opponent's face in.
I still prefer junk, but it absolutely is a viable archetype. It's also one that gets 2 sets of scry lands.
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I actually just played vs a BUG control deck on MTGO. He devour fleshed my blood baron, gaze of granite'd my elspeth, hero's downfalled my jace, then conceded the match after i thoughtseized his only essence scatter and put down aetherling.
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On November 10 2013 03:20 hunts wrote:
I actually just played vs a BUG control deck on MTGO. He devour fleshed my blood baron, gaze of granite'd my elspeth, hero's downfalled my jace, then conceded the match after i thoughtseized his only essence scatter and put down aetherling.
Damn... That's pretty epic I have to say lol
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On November 09 2013 01:26 caelym wrote:
I'm thinking of putting together a BW stoneblade list for GP DC. I know the land base is really bad, but how's the rest of the list? I have path instead of swords to plowshares because I envision being the aggressor and running the clock (am I wrong in thinking this?). Are the lands bad enough that there's no point in even bringing this list? I want to attend but don't want to spend money on duals and wastelands.
Land (24)
1x Fetid Heath
3x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
4x Plains
4x Swamp
3x Tectonic Edge
1x Temple of Silence
4x Verdant Catacombs
Sorcery (9)
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize
Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile
Creature (14)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Mirran Crusader
4x Stoneforge Mystic
Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Planeswalker (4)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Liliana of the Veil
Enchantment (2)
2x Oblivion Ring
Sideboard (15)
2x Dismember
2x Duress
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Lingering Souls
2x Oblivion Ring
3x Rest in Peace
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Personally, I wouldn't bother. But that's just me. I made the decision to not go to GP DC because of 2 reasons, 1) I went to Blizzcon and I didn't want to travel back-to-back weekends, but also because 2) my Legacy deck Esper/Esper Deathblade is in the current meta-game pretty much unplayable. Shardless BUG does what the blade decks do but so much better and I'm missing some cards.
However, if you want to play some Magic and just have fun, sure go for it.
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On November 10 2013 05:01 echO [W] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 01:26 caelym wrote:
I'm thinking of putting together a BW stoneblade list for GP DC. I know the land base is really bad, but how's the rest of the list? I have path instead of swords to plowshares because I envision being the aggressor and running the clock (am I wrong in thinking this?). Are the lands bad enough that there's no point in even bringing this list? I want to attend but don't want to spend money on duals and wastelands.
Land (24)
1x Fetid Heath
3x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
4x Plains
4x Swamp
3x Tectonic Edge
1x Temple of Silence
4x Verdant Catacombs
Sorcery (9)
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize
Instant (4)
4x Path to Exile
Creature (14)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Mirran Crusader
4x Stoneforge Mystic
Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Planeswalker (4)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Liliana of the Veil
Enchantment (2)
2x Oblivion Ring
Sideboard (15)
2x Dismember
2x Duress
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Lingering Souls
2x Oblivion Ring
3x Rest in Peace
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben Personally, I wouldn't bother. But that's just me. I made the decision to not go to GP DC because of 2 reasons, 1) I went to Blizzcon and I didn't want to travel back-to-back weekends, but also because 2) my Legacy deck Esper/Esper Deathblade is in the current meta-game pretty much unplayable. Shardless BUG does what the blade decks do but so much better and I'm missing some cards. However, if you want to play some Magic and just have fun, sure go for it.
I wouldn't say Shardless Bug does it better. UWR Delver decks have gotten much farther than it over more tournaments despite being "theoretically" weaker just because turn 2 Stoneforge => turn 3 Batterskull/turn 4 Jitte wins many game on its own. BUG is much better at grinding, and much better at gaining card advantage. But that doesn't mean discard + stoneforge package+a bit of luck won't win him more games than he deserves. The goal is simply to get to the top 64 and make your ticket back after all (assuming he lives near the area, top 64 means he gets to bring his brew to play a free magic tournament)
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I live 1.5 hour away and honestly I'm going just to have fun and check out cool legacy decks. If I can make day 2 (which I'm not even aiming for), I'd be ecstatic. Any other TLers thinking of going?
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7-3 at scg dallas, good for dead last (actually 81st aka the same thing). Ran very poorly but possibly messed up in r9 to lose and barely miss. I think my line was ok since I don't think it was realistic to expect to miss my 4th land with thassa in play for like 7 turns...
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Does anyone want to play some games on OCTGN? It's a free server.
I usually play legacy/modern ... competitive decklists.
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Hey, how do you guys evaluate cards in terms of monetary value (for buying / selling / trading)?
I want to be able to start trading for cards I want / selling cards I don't but at the same time I don't want to get ripped off.
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On November 11 2013 11:57 slOosh wrote:
Hey, how do you guys evaluate cards in terms of monetary value (for buying / selling / trading)?
I want to be able to start trading for cards I want / selling cards I don't but at the same time I don't want to get ripped off.
use starcitygames.com or magic.tcgplayer.com to look up prices.
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EPT
