EPTMagic: The Gathering - Page 490
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On November 09 2013 01:56 Judicator wrote: There's no point. I would just play one of the cheaper Legacy options like Dredge or Pox. Except I don't think Pox is actually viable right now? Not sure. Pox is amazing unless you face a blue deck... It's almost the perfect control deck minus card drawing. No card draw and no counters means blue based decks hose it hard. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On November 09 2013 02:16 caelym wrote: dredge and pox would both be more expensive because I already have most of the staples for this stoneblade list. Well that's if this stoneblade list is an actual list, which IMO is not. You're playing a fair deck unoptimized, so I wouldn't expect much or even call it a competitive deck. Dredge was dirt cheap when I built it, like under 100. Can't imagine it being more than whatever land base you should need with that deck. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On November 09 2013 03:16 Judicator wrote: Well that's if this stoneblade list is an actual list, which IMO is not. You're playing a fair deck unoptimized, so I wouldn't expect much or even call it a competitive deck. Dredge was dirt cheap when I built it, like under 100. Can't imagine it being more than whatever land base you should need with that deck. Belcher without Lions Eyes and burning wishes will auto win 1st turn about about half the time and turns 2-3 the majority of the time. It will also cost about $100. I think Elf Combo could also be built at about $100-$150. | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On November 09 2013 03:38 Thieving Magpie wrote: Belcher without Lions Eyes and burning wishes will auto win 1st turn about about half the time and turns 2-3 the majority of the time. It will also cost about $100. I think Elf Combo could also be built at about $100-$150. That Stoneblade list looks like it would take a beating from lots of the established archetypes. Combo Elves can be a bit expensive because of the Gaea's Cradles. If you want something that works and will win, apart from Belcher (which is hilarious, especially the 15 Island sideboard variants) you can also try this land combo deck that's very cheap, straightforward to play and most people won't know what it does until they've lost. (Not to be confused with 43 Lands, which is incredibly expensive and not something to pick up and try) | ||
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:04 MoonBear wrote: That Stoneblade list looks like it would take a beating from lots of the established archetypes. Combo Elves can be a bit expensive because of the Gaea's Cradles. If you want something that works and will win, apart from Belcher (which is hilarious, especially the 15 Island sideboard variants) you can also try this land combo deck that's very cheap, straightforward to play and most people won't know what it does until they've lost. (Not to be confused with 43 Lands, which is incredibly expensive and not something to pick up and try) how does it take a beating from big archetypes? there's disruption vs combo, lili is good vs emrakul decks, it can put a fast clock. I'm open to criticism, but I'd like to hear something beside it's unplayable and sucks. I'm not trying to win the tournament, but don't want to lose every game either. Lastly, I hate combo. The archetype isn't complete trash either. There's been multiple decent placings: link I can cut some creatures for more disruption, add some hymns, replace the paths with swords. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:11 caelym wrote: how does it take a beating from big archetypes? there's disruption vs combo, lili is good vs emrakul decks, it can put a fast clock. I'm open to criticism, but I'd like to hear something beside it's unplayable and sucks. I'm not trying to win the tournament, but don't want to lose every game either. Lastly, I hate combo. The main things is that it runs too many lands for a deck of its type and not quite enough threats to beat the opponent based on the disruption you have. Lingering Souls + equipment is good, but Bladehold and Crusader are not that great without better disruption. A lot of BWx decks with lots of creatures would normally run 3 Thalia + 4 Thoughtseize instead of 4 Thoughtseize + 2 Inquisitions. But if you run Lingering Souls and 3 equipment you can't run Thalia main since she will hurt you as much as she will hurt them. Also, no wastelands makes Thalia in efficient. Tectonics are not great since they don't hurt till turn 4 and the wasteland plays are best against decsk that go off turns 2-3 or as follow ups to a turn 2 thalia. I would cut 3 tectonics for 1 temple of silence and either 2 more Inquisitions (if you're going the anti-combo route) or 2 more crusaders if you're going the anti-creature route. I would rather Bladehold be a 2nd Elspeth, but I'm assuming she is already diet elspeth for you, so that's okay. In essence, you really want no more than 22ish lands in Legacy due to the speed and bombiness of the format and the expectation of older duals. The deck will have a hard time for the same reason you don't normally see Deadguy Ale decks make it to the top tables. However, discard + small creatures will win you many matches and a lot of creature matches will be won off of turn 2 mystic. Just be aware that the BUG matchup will SUCK and the RUG matchup will feel like you'd win if you had just one more turn. But yes, turn 1 discard into turn 2 Thalia will kill most combo decks on the spot while turn 2 Stoneforge into Jitte will beat many creature decks on the spot. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:11 caelym wrote: how does it take a beating from big archetypes? there's disruption vs combo, lili is good vs emrakul decks, it can put a fast clock. I'm open to criticism, but I'd like to hear something beside it's unplayable and sucks. I'm not trying to win the tournament, but don't want to lose every game either. Lastly, I hate combo. The archetype isn't complete trash either. There's been multiple decent placings: link I can cut some creatures for more disruption, add some hymns, replace the paths with swords. I can't actually view the results of your search, but the things that stand out to me are:
Those were the first things that came to mind when I saw the deck list and what I was most concerned about. Stoneblade is not a deck made for racing. Stoneforge Mystic packages are fairly slow. It's like winding up a big punch and then landing that equipment onto the board. You do nice things with a few cards, but you don't just dump things onto the board like Zoo might want to. | ||
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:36 caelym wrote: Thanks for the feedback. And yea, tec edge is definitely no wasteland and not good enough for legacy. how do you feel about maindeck hymns? Read Hymn to Tourach as "target player takes two mulligans" and it's a guaranteed 2-for-1. It's a very powerful card, even if it's random. If you can run it and cast it consistently, I can see it working out well. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22709 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:56 MoonBear wrote: Read Hymn to Tourach as "target player takes two mulligans" and it's a guaranteed 2-for-1. It's a very powerful card, even if it's random. If you can run it and cast it consistently, I can see it working out well. Discard at random is much more powerfull then discard on its own aswell. Normaly you just rid a player of his X worst card. this lets you get better cards. | ||
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
On November 09 2013 04:56 MoonBear wrote: Read Hymn to Tourach as "target player takes two mulligans" and it's a guaranteed 2-for-1. It's a very powerful card, even if it's random. If you can run it and cast it consistently, I can see it working out well. damn, fetid heaths are more expensive than I thought. And vindicate is also costly  Updated list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bw-legacy-08-11-13-1/ | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
Vindicates are not cheap sadly, if you can't afford them the oblivion rings will do--but they will be abrupt decayed damn near every time. The biggest advantage you have is that as a 2color list you can rely heavily on basics. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
This is why people are telling you to audible into a different deck if you really want to play in Legacy. I would recommend Hymn too, but your mana base is too flimsy by Legacy standards that I am not sure if Hymn isn't a break even at that point rather than a powerful effect. Also, moonbear do us commoners not have access to bullet points? Edit: Like you are dead to RUG if they Wasteland you at all, dead to BUG if they cascade anything of value and you have tough time against Decay, Punishing Jund just destroys you (though to be fair it destroys WB in general), you are only average against the most popular combo decks. Dunno, I wish you the best of luck. Rest in Peace some times is too slow against Dredge though so just be aware of that. Edit2: Thanks MoonBear, good to know. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:22 Judicator wrote: Also, moonbear do us commoners not have access to bullet points? This is the BBCode to use (anyone can do this, it's not a staff only thing): [list] Use [list=ordered] if you want it to be numbers instead of dots. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
Its similar to Deadguy Ale and for the most part will beat most Legacy decks you meet. If Jund doesn't drop a timely Lilianna/Grove of the Burnwillows, turn 2 Stoneforge into Jitte will kill it. If RUG delver fails to wasteland you with a threat in play--you have a chance to grind them out. BUG will break you, but sometimes dropping early Confidants and Midgame Stoneforge Mystics will give you some good back and forth. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
On November 09 2013 05:22 Judicator wrote: Lily isn't that great against Sneak Show decks, not sure where you are getting this notion from. If they Show-Tell a Griselbrand into play you are actually just dead unless they just did stone nothing but take damage. This is why people are telling you to audible into a different deck if you really want to play in Legacy. I would recommend Hymn too, but your mana base is too flimsy by Legacy standards that I am not sure if Hymn isn't a break even at that point rather than a powerful effect. Also, moonbear do us commoners not have access to bullet points? Edit: Like you are dead to RUG if they Wasteland you at all, dead to BUG if they cascade anything of value and you have tough time against Decay, Punishing Jund just destroys you (though to be fair it destroys WB in general), you are only average against the most popular combo decks. Dunno, I wish you the best of luck. Rest in Peace some times is too slow against Dredge though so just be aware of that. Edit2: Thanks MoonBear, good to know. Wasteland is going to give me hell :/ I don't think there's much I can do unless I go mono-color or combo (both of which I'd have to get 95% of the cards for, even if it's budget). | ||
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