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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
basically I strongly disagree with your viewpoint. Jaedong is an extremely dynamic player, with 4 major tournament wins in the past year. I think you're belittling his accomplishments Edit: just to correct myself, jaedong has some 69% winrate in the last year, I think over 70% zvp and zvz, and 55% zvt | ||
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Februarys
Korea (South)259 Posts
Your post made it sound like Jaedong is forever beaten down by Flash and ForGG and will not come back to playing his monstrous games. He already showed he's better than Flash by 3-0'ing recently. Next is ForGG's turn. "Jaedong however shows signs of staying around for a long time to come due to his innate skill" Yeah don't make it sound like our Zerg God is barely able to stay around. He is on fire lately, and has been, and will probably make it to next month's PR #1 if I can guess right. | ||
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Februarys
Korea (South)259 Posts
On August 26 2008 12:34 Sunyveil wrote: come on, jaedong is insanely entertaining. You never know what he's going to do next, and he's been extremely dominant since his OSL victory. He has something like a 70% winrate, and I think his ZvP is over 90% or something. He still plays great TvZ when he needs to, showed in his victories vs. hwasin and flash in the MSL and GSL. Ppl say he "slumped", but it was more of him just getting cheesed a few times and losing a game or two. basically I strongly disagree with your viewpoint. Jaedong is an extremely dynamic player, with 4 major tournament wins in the past year. I think you're belittling his accomplishments I agree strongly. The thread maker is definately understating JD's amazing record and dominance this + last year. His ZvT is looking solid lately, his ZvP is untouchable, and his ZvZ is perfect | ||
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Astrogation
United States477 Posts
I actually find his games more fun to watch than any other modern protoss | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
Still a good read though, but that's guaranteed anyway, given the author  | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 26 2008 12:39 Februarys wrote: I never belittled Jaedong's accomplishments so don't take it in that light. But if you compare Jaedong's games from his era of proleague domination or his ever07 run, at least from my perspective, his game just isn't as entertaining as it used to be. Sure, i don't like Jaedong at all - but i can appreciate an entertaining game when i see it (e.g. anytimes drunken rampage). Even Sea has lost a lot of his original charisma (remember when he played the blitzkrieg tvt agianst goodfriend on old peaks? or his mnm all in on 815 vs boxer?). Charisma is something which typically naturally deteriorates over time, with only a few notable exceptions (e.g boxer). Jaedong is still playing stupidly brilliant, but the question is are his games still as charismatic as they used to be (ie is he going the way of stork?)I agree strongly. The thread maker is definately understating JD's amazing record and dominance this + last year. His ZvT is looking solid lately, his ZvP is untouchable, and his ZvZ is perfect On August 26 2008 13:00 Carnac wrote: I think that the buzz generated around Bolt and what that buzz meant for track and field is perfectly comparable to Boxer's effect on the scene. I don't know about the rest of you, but i found myself transfixed with what bolt was going to do next. I casually tuned into the 100m final - saw something magic - and followed all his other races in the olympics. This is the magnetic effect that boxer had on the original fans of stacraft Meh, I don't think comparing SC players or even Boxer to a sprinter who is very probably doped (although it's yet to be proven, and maybe never will be) is entirely appropriate. Still a good read though, but that's guaranteed anyway, given the author  you tune in to see, say, a final and you witness brilliance in it's purest form and then you follow him from starleague to starleague admiring his brilliance. On August 26 2008 12:43 KimTaeYeon wrote: Well...Brilliant read, however, I'm slightly offended as the #1 Stork fanboy I actually find his games more fun to watch than any other modern protoss Here is storks "revolutionary" game on 815 which later lead to anytime adapting this opening and defeating Xellos changing the balance of 815 to a protoss map. Watch the absolute genius build and his brilliant follow up. Compare that to this from some of his more recent games. The magic has quite clearly gone. | ||
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Ra.Xor.2
United States1784 Posts
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kpcrew
Korea (South)1071 Posts
do you have a video of the celebration? | ||
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ahole-surprise
United States813 Posts
Somewhat agreeing with your article, I would say Boxer is the only one who is both personally charismatic while consistently maintaining a charismatic playstyle, but the latter is definitely aided by the fact that he plays Terran. There aren't that many cute things you can really do as a Zerg player to both be dominant and entertaining. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Jaedong is an incredible asset in the proleague, and he's the winner of OSL, MSL, and GSL. His strategies are varied, innovative, often risky, and superbly executed. He's demonstrated tremendous skill in all three matchups, and he's also shown that he has the resilience to come back from defeat (trouncing Flash after losing to ForGG). He's the single most stellar progamer of the 07-08 stretch. When I think of StarCraft's greatest players, I think: Boxer -> Nada -> Oov -> Savior -> (Bisu) -> (Flash) -> Jaedong July too, but he doesn't fit in the sequence. Some of these names are negotiable *cough*. Jaedong is not. He's proven himself. If Jaedong doesn't fit the bill, I have to wonder what on Earth you're looking for in a progamer. | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
boxer #1 forever. | ||
Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
On August 26 2008 13:36 Djabanete wrote: I don't understand the basis on which you're criticizing Jaedong's charisma and flair, Plexa. Jaedong is an incredible asset in the proleague, and he's the winner of OSL, MSL, and GSL. His strategies are varied, innovative, often risky, and superbly executed. He's demonstrated tremendous skill in all three matchups, and he's also shown that he has the resilience to come back from defeat (trouncing Flash after losing to ForGG). He's the single most stellar progamer of the 07-08 stretch. When I think of StarCraft's greatest players, I think: Boxer -> Nada -> Oov -> Savior -> (Bisu) -> (Flash) -> Jaedong July too, but he doesn't fit in the sequence. Some of these names are negotiable *cough*. Jaedong is not. He's proven himself. If Jaedong doesn't fit the bill, I have to wonder what on Earth you're looking for in a progamer. Nice post. Seriously. I've also been extremely impressed and entertained by the brilliance of Jaedong's play -- and you mentioned thus but I really want to drive the point home: the man has an amazing, unparallelled, crazy amount of variety, and for him to be a Zerg player makes it all the more praise-worthy. It is extremely rare to see a progamer in the prime of their career, their dominant period, glide between stratagies, builds, and playstyles game to game so effortlessly as Jaedong has been doing this past year. He's hyper agressive zerg styles one game, at a level higher than July or any other Zerg, only to follow it up next game with a sAviOr-esque greedy macro build at a level higher than the Maestro. He cant be nailed down to anything (unlike Flash and his 14cc/macro overwhelming obsession) and I think this is what makes him so scary to his opponents and so entertaining to me. | ||
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spydernoob
Canada1066 Posts
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
awesome awesome awesome writeup | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 26 2008 13:59 spydernoob wrote: Unless my memory is failing me, its this game, and this game is the one where jju pulls out the legendary ensare-wraith counter iircgood article. anyone have a link to a vod of the iloveoov vs jju game where he goes mass ghost? I must say i am heartened by the some of the points raised by the Jaedong fans. I don't have quite the time to properly respond to the points raise, as they are all very good points, but there is one point i want to address right now. I've also been extremely impressed and entertained by the brilliance of Jaedong's play -- and you mentioned thus but I really want to drive the point home: the man has an amazing, unparallelled, crazy amount of variety, and for him to be a Zerg player makes it all the more praise-worthy. It is extremely rare to see a progamer in the prime of their career, their dominant period, glide between stratagies, builds, and playstyles game to game so effortlessly as Jaedong has been doing this past year. He's hyper agressive zerg styles one game, at a level higher than July or any other Zerg, only to follow it up next game with a sAviOr-esque greedy macro build at a level higher than the Maestro. He cant be nailed down to anything (unlike Flash and his 14cc/macro overwhelming obsession) and I think this is what makes him so scary to his opponents and so entertaining to me. If you look at all Zerg players in their prime, no matter who the zerg is, the very best Zergs do have somewhat of a varied element about their play. July did, Luxury does, JJu certainly did etc so this aspect about variety isn't as exclusive as you might think. Zerg's readily have to adapt to maps more so than other races - thats just the fundamental nature of Zerg. Even players like Kwanro - who has a hyper aggressive style - needs to change it up depending on the map as he did vs Bisu on andromeda (iirc). I haven't seen Jaedong's WCG games yet, i've just been too busy. But i did catch most of the MSL games and the majority of the GOMTV games. The styles shown there were diverse, diverse as any zerg would be - and his mechanics were indeed sound. But really, there was nothing 'special' about what i saw other than a more gifted macro than most. Sometimes in Zerg you look for those who refuse to adapt to the map and play it their own way. Kwanro at the start of his career was like this in ZvT. But the real example is Savior - no matter what you threw at him, his 3hatch build would destroy you very much unlike the rest of the Zerg race which had to continually adapt. I see Jaedong and indeed Luxury as talented gamers but not quite having that last bit to push them to superstardom like what happened with Savior. | ||
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Astrogation
United States477 Posts
On August 26 2008 13:13 Plexa wrote: Well... Here is storks "revolutionary" game on 815 which later lead to anytime adapting this opening and defeating Xellos changing the balance of 815 to a protoss map. Watch the absolute genius build and his brilliant follow up. Compare that to this from some of his more recent games. The magic has quite clearly gone. Yes, Stork has choked time and time again in his finals appearances but I have hopes of him making it far into the OSL this time around and showing some interesting builds on Plasma. | ||
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
He's finally free!! | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
July jaedong and best do have really entertaining styles mad fun | ||
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ScarFace
United States1175 Posts
On August 26 2008 12:37 Februarys wrote: Yeah, Jaedong lost a couple finals. Go back into the annals of starcraft history, every bonjwa has. A few minor bumps in the road doesn't show him as being mortal, that he isn't a bonjwa raping everyone, hes doing the same thing as everyone did. People are just overly nostalgic. However, I do agree with Plexa that Jaedong doesn't really have the Charisma a StarCraft Bonjwa has, hes just some guy that plays really well- but hes better than Stork, or some crap.I also appreciate Boxer for his mark in the Starcraft gaming history but his time is gone. I don't see him coming back Your post made it sound like Jaedong is forever beaten down by Flash and ForGG and will not come back to playing his monstrous games. He already showed he's better than Flash by 3-0'ing recently. Next is ForGG's turn. "Jaedong however shows signs of staying around for a long time to come due to his innate skill" Yeah don't make it sound like our Zerg God is barely able to stay around. He is on fire lately, and has been, and will probably make it to next month's PR #1 if I can guess right. | ||
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Mikilatov
United States3897 Posts
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