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[QUOTE]On October 24 2007 05:25 Hot_Bid wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 24 2007 05:05 bine wrote:
"Once for an important ProLeague match, we got some supports from MBC Heroes, and Bisu was helping me prepare a PvsZ. It was unbelievable! In one game I was practicing, all of a sudden Bisu began to describe which kinds of battles will occur on the map after some minutes, on which spot of the map, which units, how many units and so on... and it happened right that way exactly! I asked afterwards how did he do that, but he didn't tell me."[/QUOTE]
woa... shit... is the full version around?
edit: shit dude thats pretty scary
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On October 25 2007 03:37 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2007 02:37 Beamo wrote:
I do not find Bisu as dominating as you describe him...
Yes he has won 2 MSL in a row and is still in for the 3rd one but he does not have that "invinsible aura" Nada, Oov or Savior had in their prime.
He is more like July, he has shown he could beat anyone in any matchup but I do not find him way more impressive then Stork.
Concerning this game 3.
I did not get the same impression when I looked at it.
Bisu went for a DT drop and did little to no damage but took an extra expo during the process.
He stayed on 3 against 2 expos for a long time perfectly blocking Hawasin from doing any damage with vultures and also denying Hwasin 3rd expo (with brilliant micro and perfectly placed units).
For me Bisu was then ahead in the game and I'm sure he could have challenged Hwasin's army with carriers + ground units when Hwasin came out but he prefered to swap expos using the fact Hwasin's army was devided finalising the win. I do not think you fully understand how PvT works. P usually takes its 3rd before the T, and if Bisu didn't DT drop, he would have had his third, a larger army, and a higher probe count. His nat expo was way later than Hwasin's because of the DT drop, and since he didn't do that much damage, Bisu was behind. Hwasin was ahead when he attacked, the reason he lost was because his armies were split, he had half his army defending and half of it killing Bisu 12:00. If Hwasin had his full army together I do not think Bisu wins the fight. I still believe that the fact that Bisu is Protoss hurts the "aura." It's something that is built over time, and I think when we look back on this period we'll see Bisu as more "invincible" than he appears to us now.
I know Protoss usually take B3 before Terran and I know not hurting with the DT drops put Bisu behind. But after having the guts to take B3 in the same time as B2 even being behind and after managing to avoid all (almost all?) vulture harass (killing quite a few) brought Bisu back in the game.
Stopping Hwasin from taking B3 a couple of time with superb micro gave him the advantage.
He already had 6 carriers when Hwasin came out and a much stronger economy.(4 bases with 3 Nexii building probes for way longer then Hwasin had his 2 to 1 expo advantage)
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Very good post, well written and sweet pictures. Lets hope naruto and others read this and realize a retarded poll is not needed, just write a decent report and it will get its views if its of decent quality. This is a good example of how to write a report.
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United States33513 Posts
Hard to judge whether Bisu has reached the level of "Bonjwa"(invincible, godly, etc) yet. Even though the pro-gaming fanbase actually made it a semi-official title, they've failed to agree on what conditions must be met. All that's managed to be established is that Boxer, Nada, Oov, and Savior are the four who have earned the title so far. Kind of unfair to Bisu, since now there's actually some semi-official ruler to judge gamers with, making people put a lot more scrutiny on him.
Still, I think as long as people doubt him, he has more to prove. When July became the first Zerg to win a major tournament, defeating Reach in the OSL, everyone respected his achievement, but they still questioned certain things. Can he do it again? Answered that by beating Gorush in the KT-KTF Premiere League (greatest tourney EVER!). Can he beat a terran in a final? Answered by beating Goodfriend in OSL final. Can he prove he is an even match vs the big three terrans (Boxer, oov, nada)? Answered in his many games against them.
Now, no one thought July was a Bonjwa, but he cleared all doubt about him being one of the greatest zergs of all time.
I think Bisu is getting there, I think the major tasks people want him to complete right now are 1) win OSL, 2)Defeat a top-class terran in a best of 5.
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United States33513 Posts
And just a reply to Hot_Bid..
I dunno if you can put Flash's double cheese vs Bisu on fear. I don't think we know that much about Flash yet. He could just be a pragmatic motherfucker. No one would put Boxer's 3-0 bunker rush victory over Yellow on fear, we know he's just a guy who likes winning over anything else. Seeing as how dull Flash is, I wouldn't be surprised if he just did it because he thought it was genuinely the best strategy.
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I think the problem a lot of you guys are having with Bisu is he hasn't brought anything amazing to the table, no amazing new strategy (sure his build vs savior was the perfect counter, but just having it didn't seal the deal, how he played it was a key factor) and he's basically built upon a solid base of Protoss knowledge developed over all the years of professional Starcraft. However, his execution and understanding of the opponent and himself is immaculate. I mean, he attacked Hwasin at the perfect moment every time. Why? Because he could look at himself and think, now I am weak, he needs to attack me. So at that moment he moved out, just as he predicted Hwasin needed to carry out his attack and caught Hwasin in a Terran's weakest moment, as he is moving out, and destroyed him. It's almost like he wrote the Art of War, he turned his weakness into a strength.
The thinking he does during the game, while maintaining such high multytask and perfect macro is why he's simply good. Perhaps it's why he uses such open builds, with many options, just because he knows he can get the thinking done. I just watched one of his MSL Survivor FPVODs against some random zerg, and I think his prediction and knowledge of what should be being done to him helps so much. He was just running a pack of zealots around the map getting lurker kills while I'm sure the zerg didn't know what was going on, somehow he was there before the lurker crossed the path, and it made all the difference.
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Braavos36389 Posts
On October 25 2007 14:43 IaniAniaN wrote:
I think the problem a lot of you guys are having with Bisu is he hasn't brought anything amazing to the table, no amazing new strategy (sure his build vs savior was the perfect counter, but just having it didn't seal the deal, how he played it was a key factor) and he's basically built upon a solid base of Protoss knowledge developed over all the years of professional Starcraft.
...
You can say this about any of the dominant players. Oov's strategy was only amazing because of his insane defensive ability, macro timing, etc. Savior by his game sense and multitask, Nada by his apm. Almost everyone that attempts to copy them can only do a half-assed job of it, because every single one of those guys makes strategy work "because of how they played it."
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You people may reside in Bisu's glorious win over Hwasin, but the true challenge lies ahead!
Bisu vs Up fucking magic OSL RO 16 WEEK 4 GO!
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8751 Posts
On October 26 2007 00:30 Shauni wrote:
You people may reside in Bisu's glorious win over Hwasin, but the true challenge lies ahead!
Bisu vs Up fucking magic OSL RO 16 WEEK 4 GO!
this made me laugh
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On October 25 2007 04:58 HiTexas wrote:
Very good post, well written and sweet pictures. Lets hope naruto and others read this and realize a retarded poll is not needed, just write a decent report and it will get its views if its of decent quality. This is a good example of how to write a report.
QFT
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that was a pretty decent read...thanks for sharing 
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Hey I love Bisu he brought back some pride to us Aiur refugees > . But I don't care much for the dominance thing. On the opposite I hope that sAviOr will rise once again and that they are gonna fight like never before during the MSL final.
That would be so good. (especially because they both dispalyed beautiful end game handling with savior multitasking against Bisu's feeling of the game)
Who cares about full time dominance? A rivalry is so much fun.
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There's not a single matchup I can think of that Bisu displays any flaw in.
There's not a single player I'd pick over Bisu for a bet.
And I think it's safe to say my opinion is shared by practically anyone who's been following pro SC lately.
That is dominance.
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Canada5062 Posts
Hot_Bid > bine.
Whether bisu is "dominant" or not (a subjective term anyway), he is to my mind the best player in the world right now.
Besides, bisu is currently ranked numero uno on the TL Power Rankings. That should be good enough for all of you.
Bisu's tank push stops in games 2 and 3 were art and left me breathless. Fuck, haven't seen anything quite like that since perhaps Reach vs. Boxer on Neo Forbidden Zone and Boxer vs. Garimto on Incubus (the latter, OSL final, circa Winter 2001).
Flash is overrated and always was. Things could change (he's got a lot of years left in him if he chooses to continue), but a lot of the luster's disappeared since his recent poor showings.
EDIT: BTW, check out the reaction by both players after the final match. They are absolutely spent. There was nothing more left in the tank for either of them. Bisu may have won, but he got taken off the cyber-field on a stretcher. And Hwasin looked about as devastated as I've ever seen any SC player after losing. There was exhausted agony written all over the poor guy's face. Jin couldn't even bring himself to move from his seat even while the studio was emptying.
People, this is competitive cyber gaming at its very finest. A classic.
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Canada5062 Posts
Oh, and that write-up was beautiful. Thanks, Michael.
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On October 26 2007 01:48 NonY[rC] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2007 00:30 Shauni wrote:
You people may reside in Bisu's glorious win over Hwasin, but the true challenge lies ahead!
Bisu vs Up fucking magic OSL RO 16 WEEK 4 GO! this made me laugh
who's laughing now? O_O
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8751 Posts
On October 30 2007 11:43 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2007 01:48 NonY[rC] wrote:On October 26 2007 00:30 Shauni wrote:
You people may reside in Bisu's glorious win over Hwasin, but the true challenge lies ahead!
Bisu vs Up fucking magic OSL RO 16 WEEK 4 GO! this made me laugh who's laughing now? O_O
hmm i'm still laughing? though the joke is kind of awkward at this point. bisu said that he didnt practice for his match against upmagic because he can still get out of his group without beating upmagic. being down 0-1 vs hwasin, especially after the way in which he lost game 1, presented a true challenge, whereas upmagic was the lucky guy who had an opponent that didnt care.
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United States7166 Posts
On October 22 2007 10:55 Oxygen wrote: It is no surprise, then, that Hwasin notices Bisu is overextending himself, and begins to tear a hole in Bisu's impenetrable psyche. Or at least, he tries to. He has the army, he has the positioning. But Bisu is a fucking leprechaun - he pulls shit out of his ass and rips Hwasin a new one out of nowhere. I have re-watched the battle about a dozen times now and I still can't figure out how he did it.
Eh? I think the reason Bisu won that fight is pretty simple, and more like a blunder by Hwasin than some godliness by Bisu (though Bisu did make a very smart decision, which I cover later)
After Bisu ran up the ramp to attack the constructing CC and subsequently back off after losing several units but doing very little dmg, Hwasin feels it's obvious Bisu will just try to run after that kind of a loss but he decides to stop running and fight, which is what won him the battle (and arguably the game). Hwasin must not be aware Bisu stopped running and started fighting as his vultures just stand there and die without pulling back a bit and/or mining, not to mention his tanks start sieging too late.
In fact by the time his tanks are in siege mode almost all his vultures are dead, and zealots have already reached the tanks. mostly naked tanks combined with shuttle dropping dts, a few tanks in tank mode and a newly produced wave of zealots pouring in, there's no way hwasin could have won that fight. Add to that with the fact that he had 0 mines laid beforehand nor did he try to lay any during the fight nor did he have any vulture reinforcements, it's not surprising at all how Bisu won it. Hwasin made the mistake of being a bit greedy, expecting Bisu would just try to run, so he tried to pick off a few more guys but allowing himself to be much weaker should Bisu fight back. Bisu was smart enough to realize he should attack, and those 2 things combined is what won the battle.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6308/61743358we3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9891/96997922hu3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1537/58954669vp2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7445/34333063mp1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6708/78487776qs0.jpg)
