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On November 07 2006 09:04 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2006 08:39 SuperJongMan wrote:
Awesome. Learned new zealot not-making timing, and the tech-explosion timing.
I guess that's what I been not thinking about...
Isn't this pretty easily substitutable for many maps as a main sair/dt opener up to expo/research/tech?
Yay. Those two timings are I think so key.
FA, you musta done this just for me. I love you. I love you like sunshine and lollipops.
Thank you.  Hm, I think it's a pretty good build for other maps too but there's one thing about this build tho.. It's not optimal in terms of having many units as soon as possible, it's very flexible and can be used to play normally so yeah, it's fine for other maps. But if you want to play timing PvZ, there's a few things that should be changed I think.
??? Could you give examples? I haven't even tried out your build but I figure you have far more experience with this build anyways.
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Belgium6771 Posts
You sexy sob. Great guide, thanks.
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FA, you are truly a great player. Your strategy works perfectly well on PvZ although it does (as you said) get old.
Too bad all that amounted to only one post -_-
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Good Guide.
Though I like to play more agressive, even if it means to lose.
I would like the azalea one too, probably some FE stuff i guess...
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On November 08 2006 09:03 LastWish wrote:
I would like the azalea one too, probably some FE stuff i guess...
Azalea is pretty straightforward ZvP imo. Really only 2-3 strong builds. 2 Gate outside of min only and zealot rush. FE into 3 Base or FE into Sair Reaver.
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On November 08 2006 05:27 Solstice[gm] wrote:
FA, you are truly a great player. Your strategy works perfectly well on PvZ although it does (as you said) get old.
Too bad all that amounted to only one post -_-
Post count is not realism. REMEMBER THAT.
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can someone make a TvZ Peaks of Beakdu guide please? 
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why does FA's posts stay the same number?
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On November 08 2006 14:49 [jOyO] wrote:
why does FA's posts stay the same number?
because when a person makes another post it automatically updates all his posts in his history to that post count
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Gosu guide, thanks. ^_^
I'm also interested in hearing more about timing PvZ and what builds are better for that style. I assume in midgame it's based off of more scouting (obs camped in zerg main especially) and sacrificing probe production in favor of a timing rush at some point, but when? Before Hive kicks or sunk/lurk/spore gets set up or too many bases go online, I suppose, but that's a bit vague and probably more than a bit wrong.
I really like how the build in the guide plays the map so well, with the late game map control, setting up bases at the choke points and with good defensive formation. And (in my interpretation) it focuses on endgame gas control, something that few players seemed to have grasped like FA. Unlike 4 player maps, RH3 allows the protoss to limit the zerg's gas by somehow securing the other main/nat. So this brings up another question: how would you adapt this strategy to other maps? Would you need to be more aggressive about restricting zerg gas? Where would timing or unit composition change?
FA, if you're saving available post counts until 20,000, don't bother with this (yet).  Anybody else have thoughts on this?
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
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I wrote a pretty long explanation of why I don't prefer this build, but I don't wanna start a theorycraft debate. It's a very well written guide, and will probably help people with their pvz, but I don't think it means anything to beat a zerg by going down to their level (mindless defense). I prefer 2 gate pressure almost always in ladder games or fun games because it doesn't let them whore drones. In a serious game like a CW or NW, I tend to go for something closer to this simply because it is safe and consistant. Even then, I like to sprinkle in something more aggressive like a reaver strat.
I'm glad you centered the guide around RH3 and not the new maps because I think all the new maps are horrible. Blame it on hundreds of pgt games, but I still prefer to play on r-point/requiem/rush hour/rov any day.
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I had seen one rep, that could help everyone. This was played in SANDLOT.
The game is against FA and Active in RH3. You can fint it here:
http://www.battle.net/tournaments/sandlot/schedule.shtml
But I think is very deffensive in late game, but is necessary against hive units. The question is that FA only atack one time in the game, when he has observer as he told in the guide he went out and try to atack the second gas of the zerg without results cuz zerg protect it with lurker and spores.
FA has a very good control of the map, he left zeas to see zerg comming and have time to return.
And rivers protect very good the expansions...
The game end with corsar+carrier.
I wanna ask you if trying to mass some river I think is easy to broke his second gas or it´s a risk because zerg can attack in other way??
The other game FA vs Reason, Reason goes 2/3 hatch hidra but FA deffends good and Reason left the game...
And the other game is FA vs s2[fou] and Mass Lings make FA lose the game. I think with this strat u have to take very carreful in the beggining because 2 zealots+one goon without canon is very easy to beat.
Ok I make this post to think about to fix some points or think about been more agressive.
Anyways is versy Strong for the zerg fight against this.
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Russian Federation79 Posts
it seems that FA forgot about this topic ;(
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Hmmm, yeah, if FA doesn't post 1 of every 3 posts in a thread, that's considered him momentarily forgetting about the thread
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
Actually, I think he is saving some posts so that he can make a nice 20000th post (which he said he might be preparing)
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Sweden33719 Posts
On November 08 2006 23:03 Myrmidon wrote:Gosu guide, thanks. ^_^ I'm also interested in hearing more about timing PvZ and what builds are better for that style. I assume in midgame it's based off of more scouting (obs camped in zerg main especially) and sacrificing probe production in favor of a timing rush at some point, but when? Before Hive kicks or sunk/lurk/spore gets set up or too many bases go online, I suppose, but that's a bit vague and probably more than a bit wrong. I really like how the build in the guide plays the map so well, with the late game map control, setting up bases at the choke points and with good defensive formation. And (in my interpretation) it focuses on endgame gas control, something that few players seemed to have grasped like FA. Unlike 4 player maps, RH3 allows the protoss to limit the zerg's gas by somehow securing the other main/nat. So this brings up another question: how would you adapt this strategy to other maps? Would you need to be more aggressive about restricting zerg gas? Where would timing or unit composition change? FA, if you're saving available post counts until 20,000, don't bother with this (yet). Anybody else have thoughts on this?
Cut probes a bit earlier, maybe not open with 1 gate sair -> 2 gate dt, but instead 1 gate sair dt nex (as you want to have the best possible macro). I don't play this way as much anymore, but I think knicknack is going to write something about this way of playing, so check his site (maybe he's already written it, I don't remember ).
You would most likely not make reavers, or at least not many reavers and instead make archons later on.
Adapting this build to another map, well, the habit of making walls to protect your expansions is a good one, but on a map like luna it's a lot less effective because you can't choke his gas supply and carriers are not as strong (nor are reavers, the map is much bigger whereas the corridors on rush hour make them perfect.
On November 09 2006 00:23 Cidrex wrote:I had seen one rep, that could help everyone. This was played in SANDLOT. The game is against FA and Active in RH3. You can fint it here: http://www.battle.net/tournaments/sandlot/schedule.shtmlBut I think is very deffensive in late game, but is necessary against hive units. The question is that FA only atack one time in the game, when he has observer as he told in the guide he went out and try to atack the second gas of the zerg without results cuz zerg protect it with lurker and spores. FA has a very good control of the map, he left zeas to see zerg comming and have time to return. And rivers protect very good the expansions... The game end with corsar+carrier. I wanna ask you if trying to mass some river I think is easy to broke his second gas or it´s a risk because zerg can attack in other way?? The other game FA vs Reason, Reason goes 2/3 hatch hidra but FA deffends good and Reason left the game... And the other game is FA vs s2[fou] and Mass Lings make FA lose the game. I think with this strat u have to take very carreful in the beggining because 2 zealots+one goon without canon is very easy to beat. Ok I make this post to think about to fix some points or think about been more agressive. Anyways is versy Strong for the zerg fight against this.
I was nervous vs active so I only played defence (because I was afraid I would screw up if I tried attacking), but depending on the situation, attacking with reavers (I prefer taking them in shuttle if I attack) and units can be good.
But watch out for counters (probably good idea to have at least one reaver and some units (templars, others) at your natural and some units scouting the center of the map so you can turn back if he attacks your 2nd gas.
On November 07 2006 14:35 aQ.bitchaRd wrote:
gj! brilliant! thanx FA.
but i have one more question for you, which, as i think, you didn't paid enough attention here. if zerg sees 1 gate tech and goes 2 hatch all-in-ling with speed - is it possible to defend it without forge? what do you usually do vs fast all-in-ling (~20 or so)? forge after core, after stargate? 3rd zealot, some probes back to zealots? what?
thank you
Get a forge, no sense in being greedy when you don't have to  All of what you said, and it really depends on when he does it. Sometimes you will need it before stargate, sometimes after.. After you defend you can either continue playing normally but I think usually getting 1+ is more helpful because he can't afford many units other than lings so 
Just be safe
On November 09 2006 06:15 Taiche wrote:Actually, I think he is saving some posts so that he can make a nice 20000th post (which he said he might be preparing)
Dunno, might do something but not as elaborate as this :D
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g0g0g0g0g0g0 20.000th post!!!!
P.D: A BiG Pack Replay will be a good Gift for us!!
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
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On November 09 2006 08:22 EvilTeletubby wrote:
One more FA... one more.
two more sucka ;]
jw...why is it called sim city toss? i used to love that game =x
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EPT
