Zest Fan Club - Page 212

Rolltide

United States447 Posts

November 14 2017 10:23 GMT

#4221

Yep he played fantastic. His win against Stats in the semis was especially dominant. Wasn't even close. His 2018 will be much better I think.

Stats was in good form, that is what makes it so impressive. Stats looked like he could win this thing and Zest just shut him down. To beat Stats and Solar back to back 6 maps to 1 is certainly elite.

Has me scratching my head why he was so flat in Master's coliseum 2 just a month ago.

Wallenberg

203 Posts

November 14 2017 12:28 GMT

#4222

Any VODS up? I need 'em. Gonna press gym before I see them though, to get everything flooi'n

Fango

United Kingdom8987 Posts

November 14 2017 16:19 GMT

#4223

I saw this on reddit. Not sure how effective it was but Zest sure does love him warp prisms

AzAlexZ

Australia3303 Posts

November 15 2017 03:41 GMT

#4224

On November 14 2017 03:27 Fango wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 14 2017 02:24 AzAlexZ wrote:

On November 14 2017 02:04 Fango wrote:

On November 14 2017 01:37 AzAlexZ wrote:

On November 14 2017 01:25 Fango wrote:

On November 13 2017 22:19 AzAlexZ wrote:

On November 13 2017 16:30 Sakat wrote:
I think that was a joke question

As for the actual GOAT discussion, I'd say that the top spot is somewhere between Mvp/Life/Inno (had Inno not fallen asleep at blizzcon he would have been the undisputed GOAT but alas)

Then slightly behind them the protoss gods Zest and sOs and a bit more behind Taeja with the rulers of WoL Nestea/MMA/MC at his heels and Maru at number 10.

Maru? Are you kidding?
Rain, herO, Classic, soO, PartinG are some of the players I would definitely rank above Maru

Maru did more in korea than PartinG, herO, Classic, and Rain.

Rain won Hot6, OSL and GSL (4 in KR)
Classic won SSL and GSL. (2 in KR)
herO won SSL and Super Tournament and KeSPA Cup. (1 SL in KR, 2 Weekenders)
I'll agree on PartinG though, closest he came was a final in GSL Bliazzrd Cup in 2012 vs Life and S1 GSL vs Life in 2015.

Maru won SSL and OSL
Rain > Maru = Classic = herO > PartinG

Then you have to factor in international tournaments
Rain won HSC and Battle-net Asia Finals
herO won 3 IEM's
Classic won 1 IEM
PartinG won WCG, RedBull Battlegrounds NY, HSC, DH, Battle-net World Championship
Maru has 0, only a final in IEM Taipei vs Life
so International
PartinG > herO > Rain > Classic > Maru

Depends how highly you rank international events and weekenders. Maru did better in starleagues and proleague than any of them. Hence why I said he did more in korea

In terms of starleagues, I rank players based of # of appearances in the playoffs, and # of trophies
Dear has 6 appearances - 1 trophy
Classic has 7 appearances - 2 trophies
Rain 8 has appearances - 2 trophies
PartinG 9 has appearances - 0 trophies
herO 7 has appearances - 1 trophy

Maru has 10 appearances, and 2 trophies. So I can objectively say he did better in the starleagues than any of those. For some pointless comparisons, Zest has 8 appearances and 2 trophies, Inno has 11 appearances and 3 trophies, and soO has 6 appearances and 0 trophies.

And then there's proleague, which people seem to disregard for some bizarre reason (even though many players said practice for proleague was more important than any individual league). Maru reached the second highest winrate of any player in proleague history, with 85% in 2016. The only player to go higher than that was Flash with 86% in 2010.

And I know there's no objective measure of this, but Maru succeeded in times when it was harder for terran. All the protosses you compare him to, were well, protosses. There were so many seasons where Maru was the only terran in GSL ro8, I think that's worth noting, even if he didn't win.

Your argument for Maru being in 10 Starleagues and winning 2 is confusing.
This means he only wins 20% of his SL appeareances, whereas Rain wins 25% of his and Classic wins 28.5% of them, shouldn't that stat favor Classic and Rain, they have a higher trophy to SL appearance ratio compared to Maru

You misunderstand what I said. When I say "appearances", I mean playoffs, aka ro8 finishes or higher. I don't mean attempts, all of these guys at least tried in every starleague. Judging them based of how many trophies, and how many deep runs (aka playoff appearences) is a measure of success. Maru had as many trophies as Rain or Classic, but more ro8/ro4 finishes, which puts him ahead.

ah fair enough, in fact i did misunderstand

yangluphil

318 Posts

November 15 2017 07:00 GMT

#4225

I can't imagine someone ranks Maru over Rain. If you want to compare them, at least use the stats up until Rain retired. I agree the guy's play is flashy, but Maru may barely have a better career than Classic or herO. Overall I think Rain is the best overall protoss in terms of play but Zest accomplished more no doubt.

NinjaToss

Austria1383 Posts

November 15 2017 13:24 GMT

#4226

he just won 2-0 against INnoVation in BTSL quite convincingly

Fango

United Kingdom8987 Posts

November 15 2017 14:01 GMT

#4227

On November 15 2017 22:24 NinjaToss wrote:
he just won 2-0 against INnoVation in BTSL quite convincingly

Terran is almost univerely considered underpowered. So if history is accurate, Inno will vanish for the next for few months. TY, Maru, and Polt will be the only terrans getting out of ro32s

Zaros

United Kingdom3692 Posts

November 15 2017 15:44 GMT

#4228

3 tournament wins in a row now with HSC, Olimoleague and BTSL

Mun_Su

France2063 Posts

November 15 2017 15:53 GMT

#4229

On November 15 2017 23:01 Fango wrote:

Show nested quote +

Terran is almost univerely considered underpowered. So if history is accurate, Inno will vanish for the next for few months. TY, Maru, and Polt will be the only terrans getting out of ro32s

Every Terran get wipped with a good 10-1 in PvT... TY took a game but come on he was against Trap, who suddenly became good again.

This is a strong performance for Zest tho, he took that patch well (also he is historically good at PvP if I'm not wrong so more protoss is always good)

Rolltide

United States447 Posts

November 15 2017 17:46 GMT

#4230

3 tournament wins in a row and you can't say it is because of a balance problem because he is beating other Protoss players. He has pwned Stats the last 2 times. He would have dominated Trap.

As far as Terran being UP I don't think there is enough evidence of that yet. The only credible Terran who did not make it out of group in the first rd of homestory was Heromarine. Optimus and DeMuslim are not going to make it out even when Terran is OP.

We need much more time and many more events to determine that Terran got the shit end with this patch. Players adjust and adapt over time.

Rolltide

United States447 Posts

November 15 2017 17:54 GMT

#4231

It's frustrating that Zest is having this run during this less meaningful time of the year. None of these events brought him a single WCS point. GSL has not even announced a schedule yet.

The IEM event in Oakland California coming up today does not feature Starcraft.

He needs to be able to strike when the iron is hot. Man is he hot!

NinjaToss

Austria1383 Posts

November 15 2017 21:45 GMT

#4232

On November 16 2017 02:54 Rolltide wrote:
It's frustrating that Zest is having this run during this less meaningful time of the year. None of these events brought him a single WCS point. GSL has not even announced a schedule yet.

The IEM event in Oakland California coming up today does not feature Starcraft.

He needs to be able to strike when the iron is hot. Man is he hot!

the WESG Qualifier for Korea will be happening in like 1 or 2 weeks time. Since this year they're giving Korea 3 slots I'm quite hopeful

Rolltide

United States447 Posts

November 16 2017 15:45 GMT

#4233

I'm just going to say that after playing over a dozen maps last night as Protoss with the new patch changes there is no excuse for the way Drogo played at Homestory not winning a map and Showtime continues to be an underachiever.

Come on! You make at least 2 forge, even 3 and chrono the shit out of them. You chrono the shit out of your Twilight council and your Templar archives. A protoss should never be even in upgrades or research. You can also now chrono your nexxus to stay ahead in workers.

They more than made up for the loss of the MC. You should have warp gates a bit faster, storm, glaives or charge or blink a bit faster and you should always be slightly ahead on your basic upgrades.

FataLe

New Zealand4516 Posts

November 17 2017 04:11 GMT

#4234

On November 17 2017 00:45 Rolltide wrote:
I'm just going to say that after playing over a dozen maps last night as Protoss with the new patch changes there is no excuse for the way Drogo played at Homestory not winning a map and Showtime continues to be an underachiever.

Come on! You make at least 2 forge, even 3 and chrono the shit out of them. You chrono the shit out of your Twilight council and your Templar archives. A protoss should never be even in upgrades or research. You can also now chrono your nexxus to stay ahead in workers.

They more than made up for the loss of the MC. You should have warp gates a bit faster, storm, glaives or charge or blink a bit faster and you should always be slightly ahead on your basic upgrades.

very zest related.
this is why we love him

Phredxor

New Zealand15076 Posts

November 17 2017 04:54 GMT

#4235

When Drogo plays bad the first thing i think of is Zest.

Rolltide

United States447 Posts

November 18 2017 15:11 GMT

#4236

Not bad at all. Zest walks away with 4 maps and $2000 for an an hour and a half of work. Has's cheese attack was a thing of beauty. Even Zest could not overcome that.

Victories over Neeb, Scarlett, Dark, Byun.

Rolltide

United States447 Posts

November 18 2017 15:13 GMT

#4237

When Drogo plays bad the first thing i think of is Zest.

I'm a Drogo fan almost by default. There are so few world class Protoss players in Europe.

NinjaToss

Austria1383 Posts

November 18 2017 15:38 GMT

#4238

I can't help but being salty that he didn't play Rogue or INnoVation or some other top players before getting Has. This is the first time in the history of SHOUTcraft that Zest is in such good form, and his potential streak was taken away. I mean I know it's not meant to be fair but still...

Nevertheless, his game against Dark was amazing, can't wait to see more from him