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Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
December 09 2017 13:34 GMT
#4261
Zest lost to Forte. Cranktv did not update the bracket for the Zest vs Forte game or the Hero vs Classic game. You found out when you saw who was playing next and Maru is playing Forte now.

The format is a bit ridiculous but the Terran players seem to be alright. Maru just won a map with a reaper rush.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
December 09 2017 16:00 GMT
#4262
RIP. It's annoying that there was no loser bracket, but there's no excuse to lose to Forte. Wish I could have seen the games though
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Lil_nooblet
Profile Joined March 2016
United States459 Posts
December 10 2017 00:03 GMT
#4263
Somebody in twitch chat said Zest no showed but who knows if that's true. Very surprising to see him lose to Forte a few days after crushing TY and Gumiho.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
December 10 2017 00:24 GMT
#4264
I can't imagine he really no-showed in such an important qualifier.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
maruzest
Profile Joined October 2016
Korea (South)87 Posts
December 10 2017 08:36 GMT
#4265
On December 10 2017 09:24 Fango wrote:
I can't imagine he really no-showed in such an important qualifier.


That isn't true. Zest played game with Forte.

CranK asked Zest if he played game and Zest said yes.

Lil_nooblet
Profile Joined March 2016
United States459 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-10 09:46:18
December 10 2017 08:51 GMT
#4266
On December 10 2017 17:36 maruzest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2017 09:24 Fango wrote:
I can't imagine he really no-showed in such an important qualifier.


That isn't true. Zest played game with Forte.

CranK asked Zest if he played game and Zest said yes.


Ah thanks for clearing that up. I should have never believed a twitch chatter lol. To be fair though I think I did see a couple different people say that.
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
December 11 2017 22:18 GMT
#4267
It makes no sense to have a qualifier for a major tournament where losing one map ends it. Zest at least made the round of 8 and got a best of 3. Still losing to a guy who is maybe the 10th best Terran in the world is a disappointment.
starkiller123
Profile Joined January 2016
United States4030 Posts
December 11 2017 23:30 GMT
#4268
On December 12 2017 07:18 Rolltide wrote:
It makes no sense to have a qualifier for a major tournament where losing one map ends it. Zest at least made the round of 8 and got a best of 3. Still losing to a guy who is maybe the 10th best Terran in the world is a disappointment.

there are easily 10 terran players that are better than Forte
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-12 00:30:25
December 12 2017 00:30 GMT
#4269
On December 12 2017 08:30 starkiller123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2017 07:18 Rolltide wrote:
It makes no sense to have a qualifier for a major tournament where losing one map ends it. Zest at least made the round of 8 and got a best of 3. Still losing to a guy who is maybe the 10th best Terran in the world is a disappointment.

there are easily 10 terran players that are better than Forte


Indeed. Inno, TY, Maru, ByuN, Gumiho, SpeCial, aLive, Bunny, Ryung, Kelazur, Keen, and Cure are better for sure. I'd even rank guys like jjakji and TIME above Forte tbh.

Unless Forte suddenly found joy in the new patch and is really good now (unlikely)
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-12 01:36:16
December 12 2017 01:34 GMT
#4270
I don't think anyone is shocked by WESG qualifiers being a shitshow. WESG itself is only notable for its prizepool, winning WESG means about as much as winning HSC as far as skill is concerned.

No doubt the players care more about the money, but (as Wax said) we as fans have the luxury of evaluating based on skill.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
December 12 2017 10:16 GMT
#4271
I said Forte was "maybe" the 10th best Terran. I wasn't definitive about it. We all agree that Zest in his current form should handle him. Zest in poor form last year lost all the time to players of that caliber.

It's interesting that when naming the 10-12 best Terrans in the world no Europeans are listed. After Uthermal and Heromarine you kind of fall off the shelf.
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
December 12 2017 10:22 GMT
#4272
I don't think anyone is shocked by WESG qualifiers being a shitshow. WESG itself is only notable for its prizepool, winning WESG means about as much as winning HSC as far as skill is concerned.

No doubt the players care more about the money, but (as Wax said) we as fans have the luxury of evaluating based on skill.


I agree HSC is at least as competitive. Even online tournamants like Master's Coliseum.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-12 16:21:45
December 12 2017 16:17 GMT
#4273
On December 12 2017 10:34 pvsnp wrote:
I don't think anyone is shocked by WESG qualifiers being a shitshow. WESG itself is only notable for its prizepool, winning WESG means about as much as winning HSC as far as skill is concerned.

No doubt the players care more about the money, but (as Wax said) we as fans have the luxury of evaluating based on skill.


WeSG last year at least was very compeititive. The real tournament being in the qualifiers ofc

Hopefully Zest makes it through to IEM. Though he's looking shaky against terran right now
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
December 12 2017 16:26 GMT
#4274
On December 12 2017 10:34 pvsnp wrote:
I don't think anyone is shocked by WESG qualifiers being a shitshow. WESG itself is only notable for its prizepool, winning WESG means about as much as winning HSC as far as skill is concerned.

No doubt the players care more about the money, but (as Wax said) we as fans have the luxury of evaluating based on skill.

Can't agree more. WESG (and this lame IEM coming up as well) is a whatever event for me. Big prize pool so whoever wins it will have a big payday. Good for him. That's it.
Even last year, TY won 200K. People basically said he won 200K. Barely anyone even bothers to say he won WESG.
zakadar
Profile Joined December 2015
Germany409 Posts
December 12 2017 21:34 GMT
#4275
well but TY was really good and deserved it soon after it it he won an ultra stacked IEM Katowice
TY my boy gogo
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
December 13 2017 05:31 GMT
#4276
On December 13 2017 06:34 zakadar wrote:
well but TY was really good and deserved it soon after it it he won an ultra stacked IEM Katowice

TY was indeed really good, but winning WESG had nothing to do with that (except beating Maru).

His performance at Katowice and in GSL (until he got reverse-swept) were what actually demonstrated his skill.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
December 13 2017 09:28 GMT
#4277
Zest's problems are not just with Terran. He did not make it out of group in the basetrade star league yesterday.

Beat Hero 3-0.

Lost in the winners match to Impact 3-1.

Then lost to Hero in the decider match 3-0.

Quite a turnaround to beat a guy 3-0 and then lose to him 3-0 in the same day. Still having problems with Impact.

Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-12-13 10:26:02
December 13 2017 10:23 GMT
#4278
I saw all the games, he didn't play poorly even in the games he lost. Impact is an extremely abusive Zerg, he all-inned Zest every game - and Protoss is pretty much terrible against Zerg all-ins right now. Feels like Zerg comes out ahead every time because Protoss economy gets going extremely slowly without constant chronoboost. I think Zest has the right ideas in the match-up and executes well, but Zerg can pretty much do whatever they want atm and it shows in the number of abusive builds Impact does vP.

herO just caught the better builds in their second series and executed well from there. Nothing to worry about, especially since the opposite happened in their first series.

Also, losing to Forte isn't "having problems with Terran". A guy is allowed to lose a few series here and there. That's just going to happen. Doesn't make him any worse.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
December 13 2017 13:09 GMT
#4279
Fango said that Zest was " looking shaky against Terran right now". That's why I said that.

There is no need to battle over semantics or terminology but this is a war game so the nature of the game is to be abusive. Life was really abusive vs Lilbow in 2015 lol.

I remember Noregret giving Zest some trouble in Land invitation and he rushes every time. He took a map off Zest and certainly made him uncomfortable. Impact is certainly a much better player than Noregret.

When Zest lost to Scarlet in the GSL 3 qualifiers did she use those type of builds? I'm wondering. Scarlett and Noregret are good friends.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
December 13 2017 13:42 GMT
#4280
She did. I don't see how it matters though. I'm not blaming Impact for playing the way he did, I'm explaining to you why it makes sense for Zest to struggle against Impact - because he's someone that's very good at finding specific all-ins and transitions that work against what Protoss is currently "supposed" to be doing.

To add to that, Protoss economy as a whole gets going more slowly with new chronoboost. That's why stuff like the 55 drone hydra all-in (that Impact used against Zest) are much better now. It's easier for Zerg to drone up and transition if it doesn't kill immediately, because Protoss economy doesn't grow as fast behind the Zerg attack - meaning that Protoss comes out less ahead than they previously would. That's essentially the Zest vs Impact series in a nutshell. Impact committed to early aggression that Zest dealt with quite well, but Impact just droned up and hit another all-in.

PvZ life is tough atm. I'm still seeing very good play from Zest across all three match-ups. To me he's easily one of, if not the, best Protoss in the world at the moment. Perhaps even the best player period. But we'll see what happens with changes coming soon.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
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