EPTIf attack and armor on the lings weren't upgraded, I thought that was a bigger factor.
The IdrA Fan Club - Page 234
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Whole
United States6046 Posts
If attack and armor on the lings weren't upgraded, I thought that was a bigger factor. | ||
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Thermia
United States866 Posts
On February 22 2011 09:14 Whole wrote: I don't think Baneling Speed mattered as much as some will think. IdrA's first attack succeeded without the speed...he just couldn't remass fast enough. 3/3 Marines are too damn efficient Yeah, and the best part about upgraded marines is that the marines cost zero gas, so you can mass upgrades on them far faster than zerg or protoss can without sacrificing anything. | ||
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wzzit
United States201 Posts
On February 22 2011 09:14 Whole wrote: I don't think Baneling Speed mattered as much as some will think. IdrA's first attack succeeded without the speed...he just couldn't remass fast enough. 3/3 Marines are too damn efficient If attack and armor on the lings weren't upgraded, I thought that was a bigger factor. If Idra had baneling speed, he would've annihilated Jinro's first army and had banelings left over to spare. It made a huge difference in the outcome of the game. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
If you send 25 banes against 50 marines, and the first 10 banes kill every marine, the tanks clean up the rest. What killed IdrA that game was armor upgrades | ||
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Daoism
United States84 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On February 22 2011 09:38 Daoism wrote: I really feel like Idra should have won game 6. 7v3 base, and great Muta harass from him. Not having bane speed should not have been that important i feel like. *sigh*o well Read the other posts - baneling speed was the minor of the fuck ups .. his lack of upgrades really made his units incredibly inefficient.. zerg has the least cost efficient units in the game and cannot afford to fall behind in upgrades; every other game IdrA was able to keep up and put up a solid fight; but without the upgrades (particularly armour for survivability) things were never going to end well.. | ||
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MaleficOR
United States315 Posts
I used 3 votes on IdrA, this is going to be badass can't wait. | ||
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
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cordlc
United States360 Posts
Seems Idra relies way too much on muta / ling / bane. Staying on that tech as long as Idra does will never work unless Jinro really screws up defending (marines out of position in LT, Shakuras). Since Jinro is always playing for the late game, turtling until his upgrades on marines & heavy factory tech are ready, his push will crush Idra's composition every time. You could see this in the last game, especially. The mutas had Jinro completely contained in his 3 bases for so long, yet Idra just continued to pump out more mutas. Needed to see Infestors / hive tech much earlier. Still, I'm glad the games were entertaining, and showed the two players are very closely matched. If Idra had a better late game transition, I'm sure he could've taken the series. It looks like he just doesn't have nearly as much macro ZvT practice as Jinro does for TvZ, which makes sense given the ladder map pool and how most Terran play on it. Hope that changes for him soon | ||
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Starlos
Canada191 Posts
On February 22 2011 10:44 cordlc wrote: Idra played a great series, even if I'm a little disappointed in his decision making, his great mechanics guarantee a hard fight. Unfortunately Jinro played fucking solid, the guy never ceases to impress me, honestly... Seems Idra relies way too much on muta / ling / bane. Staying on that tech as long as Idra does will never work unless Jinro really screws up defending (marines out of position in LT, Shakuras). Since Jinro is always playing for the late game, turtling until his upgrades on marines & heavy factory tech are ready, his push will crush Idra's composition every time. You could see this in the last game, especially. The mutas had Jinro completely contained in his 3 bases for so long, yet Idra just continued to pump out more mutas. Needed to see Infestors / hive tech much earlier. Still, I'm glad the games were entertaining, and showed the two players are very closely matched. If Idra had a better late game transition, I'm sure he could've taken the series. It looks like he just doesn't have nearly as much macro ZvT practice as Jinro does for TvZ, which makes sense given the ladder map pool and how most Terran play on it. Hope that changes for him soon The issue is that Brood Lords have to surprise Jinro to be effective, or else vikings can just slaughter them. Relying on luck (that Jinro doesn't scout the hive) isn't something IdrA love to do. And marines counter ultralisks. I still agree that infestors are usually a good thing though. | ||
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On February 22 2011 09:42 bkrow wrote: Read the other posts - baneling speed was the minor of the fuck ups .. his lack of upgrades really made his units incredibly inefficient.. zerg has the least cost efficient units in the game and cannot afford to fall behind in upgrades; every other game IdrA was able to keep up and put up a solid fight; but without the upgrades (particularly armour for survivability) things were never going to end well.. 3 atk upgraded tanks always kill banes/lings in 1 shot, no matter how many upgrades you have. Actually, +2 tanks would need you to be +7 armor to survive a shot. So, no, armor upgrades didn't matter either. And baneling speed didn't matter because Idra used fungals to keep marines in place, so they wouldn't be able to kite anyway. And I think that what lost the game was sacrificing the roaches to try and kill some thors, and not sacrificing then to kill the tanks. If he had killed the tanks, lings would have torn thors apart. Or would if they were 3 atk cracklings, which they weren't, but they would still be very good. | ||
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mierin
United States4945 Posts
On February 22 2011 09:57 Phanekim wrote: watching that i feel like idra is slipping. those games did not look too good. IdrA right now feels like the poor man's Jaedong. He's really good, but right now he's just losing for no particular reason (albeit to good players like | ||
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
On February 22 2011 11:15 Jotoco wrote: 3 atk upgraded tanks always kill banes/lings in 1 shot, no matter how many upgrades you have. Actually, +2 tanks would need you to be +7 armor to survive a shot. So, no, armor upgrades didn't matter either. And baneling speed didn't matter because Idra used fungals to keep marines in place, so they wouldn't be able to kite anyway. And I think that what lost the game was sacrificing the roaches to try and kill some thors, and not sacrificing then to kill the tanks. If he had killed the tanks, lings would have torn thors apart. Or would if they were 3 atk cracklings, which they weren't, but they would still be very good. the real deal, at least from a terran point of view, was the 3/3 marines. | ||
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cordlc
United States360 Posts
On February 22 2011 11:09 Starlos wrote: The issue is that Brood Lords have to surprise Jinro to be effective, or else vikings can just slaughter them. Relying on luck (that Jinro doesn't scout the hive) isn't something IdrA love to do. And marines counter ultralisks. I still agree that infestors are usually a good thing though. I'd argue that relying on more banelings as heavily as Idra does is practically much gambling, since they require such precise control (which is impossible when fighting a battle as task-heavy as the last one) Ultras / Brood Lords having counters is fine, it isn't as if it makes the units useless. Like Jinro said in his interview, when Zerg gets a really late Hive, tanks can't really be dealt with, and Terran will win. Also, I don't mean to say that Brood Lords or Ultras would have won him the last game specifically, it was only a general observation | ||
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schimmetje
Netherlands1104 Posts
Still, nice games. It wasn't IdrA vs some scrub after all and while I spend most of them in near heartattack (yay Zerg) and I wish he'd won, the whole thing did live up to the Clash of the Titans name. On to IEM! | ||
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BasilPesto
Australia624 Posts
On February 22 2011 17:03 schimmetje wrote: ...the whole thing did live up to the Clash of the Titans name. Too bad the production didn't. :p Idra reminds me of your typical cartoon villain. Some (or most) episodes you want him to win against the 'good guys', simply on account of his badassery, but he's usually thwarted at the end of the day. | ||
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schimmetje
Netherlands1104 Posts
On February 22 2011 17:47 BasilPesto wrote: Too bad the production didn't. :p Idra reminds me of your typical cartoon villain. Some (or most) episodes you want him to win against the 'good guys', simply on account of his badassery, but he's usually thwarted at the end of the day. Lol meh, they tried. Rather they test it out now and come to grips with any problems through a showmatch then when NASAL (yes I'm going to keep calling it that) itself is going live. All episodes tbh, but yeah. But we live to fight another day! | ||
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oGsTheStD
United States32 Posts
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BasilPesto
Australia624 Posts
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.Aar
2177 Posts
Tear-jerking tribute video, hahahha. Hope Grack was watching! | ||
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