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Canada8036 Posts
On March 22 2011 23:58 ChaoticBlack wrote:Can't forget the anime I grew up with ![[image loading]](http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Pricey/SEGAtastic/saintseiya.jpg) Too bad I never finished it... Almost missed my first flight to Australia cause I waited to finish the episode on Cartoon Network when Shiryuu battles Shura haha Anyone else dislike when two anime characters battle (especially sword fights) and they just run past each other and 3 seconds later someone gets cut? I know it appears in heaps of good anime (I've seen it on Rurouni Kenshin, Fairy Tail, Samurai Champloo, Saint Seiya) but I think its a pretty lazy and undramatic way to end a fight...
I used to watch that show! Here in Canada, anime used to air late at night (like 1 AM) on YTV (the timeslot was called Bionix I think? Can't remember), and I'd always stay up secretly to watch this stuff. IIRC, the other shows on that program were Bleach and Inuyasha. Incidentally, the first anime I saw on this YTV was FMA, and it just so happened that when I changed the channel, it showed some guy getting shot in the face. Scarred me for life. D:
The one thing I remember most about Saint Seiya was that stupid arc where Ikki was basically out of commission the entire time, and had to be carried around by everyone else. It was kinda dumb. And the whole thing with the Dragon shield (?) being indestructible or whatever, then of course it gets broken. It's so cheesy in retrospect.
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Zalz, who cares wtf society thinks about anime? It sounds like you are just pissed that you get called a nerd by people.
Society just has a habbit of looking down on people that they find are different. Even here in TL, outside of people from this thread anime is being heavily looked down upon for no reason, even though the people here should understand what it is like to be looked down upon for your hobby just because it is not mainstream as it is a Starcraft forum after all. But people are idiots, so you should care less about what "normal people" think.
It is quite literally what you would get if an American company produced something anime but only borrowing the style.
I wouldn't say that that is a good thing as I really hate hollywood and western shows. TV series in the west just seem to drag on and on and on with some random new plot advancement just so they can continue a series(aka not very good plotwise). And hollywood movies are just plain horrible in every way i.e. plot and character development.
Together with other high quality anime of it's time it allowed anime to actually be popular with the masses.
Although, I have personally not seen Cowboy bebop, popular =/= good. Just take a look at the BIG THREE, probably the most popular anime.
I am actually personally glad that anime hasn't caught on in the West. Why? Because there will be a lot more horrible Dubs than there are now. Although, I was introduced to anime through dubs, dubs just plain suck comapred to the original.
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On March 23 2011 01:54 Spazer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2011 23:58 ChaoticBlack wrote:Can't forget the anime I grew up with Too bad I never finished it... Almost missed my first flight to Australia cause I waited to finish the episode on Cartoon Network when Shiryuu battles Shura haha Anyone else dislike when two anime characters battle (especially sword fights) and they just run past each other and 3 seconds later someone gets cut? I know it appears in heaps of good anime (I've seen it on Rurouni Kenshin, Fairy Tail, Samurai Champloo, Saint Seiya) but I think its a pretty lazy and undramatic way to end a fight... I used to watch that show! Here in Canada, anime used to air late at night (like 1 AM) on YTV (the timeslot was called Bionix I think? Can't remember), and I'd always stay up secretly to watch this stuff. IIRC, the other shows on that program were Bleach and Inuyasha. Incidentally, the first anime I saw on this YTV was FMA, and it just so happened that when I changed the channel, it showed some guy getting shot in the face. Scarred me for life. D: The one thing I remember most about Saint Seiya was that stupid arc where Ikki was basically out of commission the entire time, and had to be carried around by everyone else. It was kinda dumb. And the whole thing with the Dragon shield (?) being indestructible or whatever, then of course it gets broken. It's so cheesy in retrospect.
Yeh the shield being destroyed was a lol wut? moment for me. I don't think I got up to that part of Ikki... They just kept on rerunning the Hades arc so thats all I've seen. I got plans to have massive marathon on the holidays though haha
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I watched KnK1 yesterday and holy shit the soundtrack was amazing.
I was still kind of bored though. I didn't know what the heck was going on. Will they explain that later?
Oh and the only thing from the Nasuverse I've seen/experienced is the FSN anime and the first arc of the FSN VN. I should hurry up and do UBW.
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On March 23 2011 02:36 blagoonga123 wrote:
I watched KnK1 yesterday and holy shit the soundtrack was amazing.
I was still kind of bored though. I didn't know what the heck was going on. Will they explain that later?
Don't expect too much to get explained for a while. You're kinda in the dark for the first part.
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If you work really hard you can figure out a fair amount of things in the first 3 chapters, but it isn't till 5 that things really click together.
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For literary purposes the first 4 were out of order anyways, and unless you figure out that order (via wiki or something) it's probably largely a futile effort.
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Lol I see. Whatever I'll just stick through it. I hear it's good.
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Zalz, who cares wtf society thinks about anime? It sounds like you are just pissed that you get called a nerd by people.
Ooh i make sure not to tell anyone i watch Anime for that specific reason.
Society just has a habbit of looking down on people that they find are different. Even here in TL, outside of people from this thread anime is being heavily looked down upon for no reason, even though the people here should understand what it is like to be looked down upon for your hobby just because it is not mainstream as it is a Starcraft forum after all. But people are idiots, so you should care less about what "normal people" think.
It's not about what normal people think, it's about the money that it has and the esteem that is drawn from it.
How people view something isn't just an opinion, it influences things. Expectations are crucial, if everyone expects you to fail you are more likely to fail, if everyone expects you to do well, you are more likely to do well.
It's not just that Anime is different, it has a lot of stereotypes and a good deal of the shows pander to a sub-culture in Japan that just doesn't exist in the west.
I believe that Anime is a great medium to produce big shows on a small budget. Imagine having to produce Full Metal Alchemist as a live-action version whilst being forced to keep the production value on a similar level.
I might be harsh on anime but only because i believe it can do so much better. It feels like it has hit something of a creative dead-end at the moment. Not saying this will last forever but i am still adressing that it exists at this point.
I wouldn't say that that is a good thing as I really hate hollywood and western shows. TV series in the west just seem to drag on and on and on with some random new plot advancement just so they can continue a series(aka not very good plotwise). And hollywood movies are just plain horrible in every way i.e. plot and character development
Well i would disagree with that.
I personally believe that TV in general and HBO in specific is actually the pinacle of film-production at the moment. If you want to be original and do something new then TV is the place to do it.
I ain't saying that everything that comes out of the US is golden but the succes rate seems a lot higher. I can name several series and films each year that i enjoy but i only find an anime-show that i like about every 2-3 years.
And let's be honest, Anime is also guilty of over-extending popular series and rarely having any character development.
Although, I have personally not seen Cowboy bebop, popular =/= good. Just take a look at the BIG THREE, probably the most popular anime.
I am actually personally glad that anime hasn't caught on in the West. Why? Because there will be a lot more horrible Dubs than there are now. Although, I was introduced to anime through dubs, dubs just plain suck comapred to the original.
I know that most anime purist are revolted at the idea of even listening to a dub, but they really aren't that bad these days.
Infact i believe it's nearly impossible to fully grasp the delivery of a text if you don't speak a language. I don't watch a lot of dubs but stuff like "Welcome to the NHK" is perfectly enjoyable in english.
Popular doesn't equall good but i do think Anime could do with some fewer trash shows and some more focus on solid scripts that get overlooked in favour of stuff like Sis/Kiss (go die in a fire).
I ain't saying Japan is devoid of talent for writing, i am saying the proper writers aren't being given enough of the funding at the moment. There are plenty of "Monster" scripts that are just gathering dust whilst money gets poured into the next K-on moe-fest.
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The thing with subs is that you tend to be able to get away with more literal translations than you'd be able to with dubs. The English of dubs is jarring to my ears, yeah, but the lines they are saying also tend to be annoying as hell. The spoken language rings very differently from reading, and the loss from that is definitely not worth it.
Then again I don't even use subs now so what do I know -.-
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In Battle Moon Wars, who are the main support pilots characters that I get in this game? Because I'd rather just invest in characters who I'd actually continuing using, rather than like investing in Rahda or Garnet or something lol
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On March 23 2011 03:24 Ecael wrote:
Then again I don't even use subs now so what do I know -.-
Have you lived in japan? If not, are you able to understand those little blurbs that are hard to translate just from studying it externally? (like puns and the like)
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On March 23 2011 03:27 blagoonga123 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 03:24 Ecael wrote:
Then again I don't even use subs now so what do I know -.- Have you lived in japan? If not, are you able to understand those little blurbs that are hard to translate just from studying it externally? (like puns and the like)
Nope, haven't lived in Japan. Sometimes I have problems, but one, I can ask other Japanese people, two, eventually you get used to it. You don't see many Europeans here complaining about English idioms right? Kind of like that.
It probably doesn't hurt that conceptually a lot of those are the same as Chinese, my native tongue. Also doesn't hurt that I was raised by my grandparents, who lived through the Japanese occupation of Taiwan and still used quite a bit of Japanese.
On March 23 2011 03:26 Sentenal wrote:
In Battle Moon Wars, who are the main support pilots characters that I get in this game? Because I'd rather just invest in characters who I'd actually continuing using, rather than like investing in Rahda or Garnet or something lol
Check my post a while back that gave you a general idea of who I use. You use like about 75% of the people you get though, so you are not at too high a risk of using crappy people. Lastly, come on, we play the game out of sheen fanboyism, what do we care if Rider is useless if we like her 
EDIT - oh you specified support. Support are Kohaku, Hisui, Karen, Ren, original character maid and iirc Mecha Hisui. The last is partially hidden so let's not count her. Of the other 5, I often stuff 3~4 in every battle. Also Magical Amber is not a mere support but like some sick buffbot of doom.
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On March 23 2011 01:07 blagoonga123 wrote:we're on a pretty lucky page right now :D hope some good luck comes out of it. How can you have a blanket hatred for all popular anime? How popular an anime is has nothing to do with how good it is. In fact I'd argue that it has a positive correlation. Then again I guess liking or disliking an anime all depends on each individual's aesthetic, so I can dig. 
It's less a disdain for the anime itself, cause I've seen it and enjoyed it, more a dislike for conversation about it. It's like talking about the summer olympics of 2000. Kinda not relevant anymore. Kinda like saying, "Hey dude did you see Lost last night, pretty cool stuff." And then I'm all like, "yeah, 4 years ago... Why're we talking about this?" Not the best example, cause people still talk about it, but add 4 more years of cultural significance on there and you get what i mean.
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I plan on going full fanboy mode in this game, except for the fact that it seems like most of my waifus are not support, lol.
I refuse to forgive Hisui for Hisui's route, so I won't use her. Ren, as in Melty Blood Len, right? Not sure if want. Is the original maid character hot?
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On March 23 2011 03:17 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +Zalz, who cares wtf society thinks about anime? It sounds like you are just pissed that you get called a nerd by people. Ooh i make sure not to tell anyone i watch Anime for that specific reason. Show nested quote +Society just has a habbit of looking down on people that they find are different. Even here in TL, outside of people from this thread anime is being heavily looked down upon for no reason, even though the people here should understand what it is like to be looked down upon for your hobby just because it is not mainstream as it is a Starcraft forum after all. But people are idiots, so you should care less about what "normal people" think. It's not about what normal people think, it's about the money that it has and the esteem that is drawn from it. How people view something isn't just an opinion, it influences things. Expectations are crucial, if everyone expects you to fail you are more likely to fail, if everyone expects you to do well, you are more likely to do well. It's not just that Anime is different, it has a lot of stereotypes and a good deal of the shows pander to a sub-culture in Japan that just doesn't exist in the west. I believe that Anime is a great medium to produce big shows on a small budget. Imagine having to produce Full Metal Alchemist as a live-action version whilst being forced to keep the production value on a similar level. I might be harsh on anime but only because i believe it can do so much better. It feels like it has hit something of a creative dead-end at the moment. Not saying this will last forever but i am still adressing that it exists at this point. Show nested quote +I wouldn't say that that is a good thing as I really hate hollywood and western shows. TV series in the west just seem to drag on and on and on with some random new plot advancement just so they can continue a series(aka not very good plotwise). And hollywood movies are just plain horrible in every way i.e. plot and character development Well i would disagree with that. I personally believe that TV in general and HBO in specific is actually the pinacle of film-production at the moment. If you want to be original and do something new then TV is the place to do it. I ain't saying that everything that comes out of the US is golden but the succes rate seems a lot higher. I can name several series and films each year that i enjoy but i only find an anime-show that i like about every 2-3 years. And let's be honest, Anime is also guilty of over-extending popular series and rarely having any character development. Show nested quote +Although, I have personally not seen Cowboy bebop, popular =/= good. Just take a look at the BIG THREE, probably the most popular anime.
I am actually personally glad that anime hasn't caught on in the West. Why? Because there will be a lot more horrible Dubs than there are now. Although, I was introduced to anime through dubs, dubs just plain suck comapred to the original. I know that most anime purist are revolted at the idea of even listening to a dub, but they really aren't that bad these days. Infact i believe it's nearly impossible to fully grasp the delivery of a text if you don't speak a language. I don't watch a lot of dubs but stuff like "Welcome to the NHK" is perfectly enjoyable in english. Popular doesn't equall good but i do think Anime could do with some fewer trash shows and some more focus on solid scripts that get overlooked in favour of stuff like Sis/Kiss (go die in a fire). I ain't saying Japan is devoid of talent for writing, i am saying the proper writers aren't being given enough of the funding at the moment. There are plenty of "Monster" scripts that are just gathering dust whilst money gets poured into the next K-on moe-fest.
Hmmm... I disagree with some of the stuff you said.
First of all, a lot of dubs are just plain awful. Yeah, there are some good ones, but most are just totally jarring. A lot of Japanese voices, especially high-pitched female ones, translate horribly into English. I can't speak Japanese at all, but I recognize enough random words and phrases to tell that dubs are changing substantially more than subs are (usually). Occasionally this is a good thing, because it makes the dialogue more streamlined, but I generally dislike it.
As for anime being "better" than western TV... I think on average anime is substantially worse than the average TV show, but I really disagree with your analysis that western TV allows for more creativity. I think it allows for much less.
Anime is based on obsession -- the major money comes from figurine sales, blu ray sales, etc. You want a group of people to not only watch your show, but spend additional money on it. American TV sales are based on viewers. In a "normal" tv show you want as many people watching as many episodes as possible. This also means you can't do anything too risky, or anything that a small group of people will love but most people will ignore.
That's why I think regular TV "drags" much more than anime does. A normal TV show has to be designed to be capable of running for 5 seasons -- anime doesn't. Hence on US TV I generally see less character development, fewer deaths, and almost no really good endings -- endings usually seem either open ended enough to allow for more seasons or made up on the spot, because the show is no longer profitable.
A lot of anime is total garbage, and much worse than normal TV, because normal TV is much more conservative. Executives want to make sure their shows are at least decent, to get a decent number of viewers. With anime, you can have a bunch of crappy shows that don't do well, because every once in a while there will be some show like Strike Witches that sells really well, and will make up for your losses.
So for me, good anime is more creative, riskier, shorter, more cohesive, and overall better than good TV. Of course, it's also pretty rare, but I would definitely say it's more common than one show every couple of years.
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Heh, I just think anime tends to strike for the goldmine more often than not, because of what sells (merchandise, ie. figures and dvd/blurays). Unfortunately this mostly means girls. So what's a good way to make money? Make a show with a lot of girls, as many as possible, and eventually one will strike a chord. Hence Strike Witches and now Infinite Stratos, two shows no one in their right minds would say was "good" but they're money-making goldmines. Even Ecael gives it his thumbs up "because he likes one girl" which is both hilarious and telling at the same time.
There's also, IMO, a dearth of good writing in the type of stuff anime tends to take nowadays. You see a lot of the drab LNs being animated, instead of more challenging and tricky LNs like Zaregoto/Ningen, Ahead, and so on and so forth. The better LNs, no offense, tend to be short, ranging from 1 vols to like 7 vols, which often are crazy hard to animate because most anime only go like 3-5 volumes, which means you have to storyboard/write like mad to try to fit it into a season... you get the idea. Unfortunately this also is why stuff like Steins;Gate/Chaos;Head/Umineko/etc. (good writes/reads) are tough to animate, and thus usually fall apart in anime form. Good writing does not a good anime make - astonishing I know, but they're different mediums.
So what you end up is an industry where the method for making money doesn't necessarily correlate to a "good watch" when comparing it to novels/western TV shows/etc. It's also why anime movies (regardless of genre!) tend to be absolutely phenomenal - when they invest the money and effort to do it, it's usually incredible.
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On March 23 2011 03:44 Sentenal wrote:
I plan on going full fanboy mode in this game, except for the fact that it seems like most of my waifus are not support, lol.
I refuse to forgive Hisui for Hisui's route, so I won't use her. Ren, as in Melty Blood Len, right? Not sure if want. Is the original maid character hot?
You kind of have to use the original maid character so no option there, and yeah I meant the cat familiar. Kind of sick how レン can yield Ren/Len/Renne (I am looking at you Falcom). If I have to use 3, I would've used Caren, Kohaku + original maid character. But more often than not I want Hisui/Mecha Hisui because resupply is amazing.
(2:53:58 PM) Ecael: would you really say that I give IS my thumbs up
(2:54:01 PM) Ecael: when I just bitch about it?
(2:54:06 PM) Southlight: ya
(2:54:39 PM) Ecael: so thumbs up meaning purely "I watch it"?
(2:54:51 PM) Southlight: ya
(2:54:54 PM) Southlight: and talk about it a lot
(2:54:56 PM) Southlight: = [It becomes a conversational topic]
(2:54:57 PM) Ecael: k fair enough
(2:54:58 PM) Southlight: = success
(2:55:08 PM) Southlight: i think you also look at pixiv
(2:55:08 PM) Ecael: [in a way]
(2:55:14 PM) Ecael: on pixiv it wins
(2:55:14 PM) Southlight: which is a step before buying figurines
(2:55:15 PM) Ecael: no contest
(2:55:17 PM) Ecael: ya
(2:55:21 PM) Southlight: in other words
(2:55:30 PM) Southlight: they've done a great job at winning you as a potential customer
(2:55:42 PM) Southlight: and even better than most normal customers
(2:55:47 PM) Southlight: you spread it, by engaging in conversation
(2:55:48 PM) Southlight: so, yeah
(2:55:51 PM) Southlight: thumbs up from you ;p
(2:55:56 PM) Ecael: lol
(2:56:03 PM) Ecael: kind of like how b movies gets spread
(2:56:05 PM) Ecael: by conversations
(2:56:06 PM) Ecael: but sure
(2:56:07 PM) Southlight: hahah
(2:56:14 PM) Southlight: would you
(2:56:17 PM) Southlight: deny the comparison?
(2:56:18 PM) Southlight: :-P
(2:56:34 PM) Ecael: no, just wanted to be sure of what you mean there
(2:56:44 PM) Ecael: if that's what you mean then I can't really deny it
Shauni would love the ongoing conversation where Southlight is suggesting that KyoAni is kind of the culprit to the whole issue.
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Canada8036 Posts
So IS is comparable to a b-movie? No argument there.
On March 23 2011 03:44 Sentenal wrote:
I plan on going full fanboy mode in this game, except for the fact that it seems like most of my waifus are not support, lol.
I refuse to forgive Hisui for Hisui's route, so I won't use her. Ren, as in Melty Blood Len, right? Not sure if want. Is the original maid character hot?
I will continue to use Akiha even though Ecael says she sucks. T_T
Hisui actually has a decent number of kills in my game, haha. Her attack is long range and post movement, so she always gets to mop up the enemies with ~200 health left. Plus reload is ridiculous. It's like a free 200xp. Len is awful. Her attacks inflict status ailments, but they're all range 1-3, so she gets annihilated in the process. Plus her main attack status ailment is movement impairment. Her secondary is armor down, but it seems like she'll never have enough will for that. -_-
I played the first level with Shirou. He kinda sucks. If it weren't for defense support, he wouldn't have lived to see the end of that level. Hell, Sakura has more armor than him. What's up with that?
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I hide not from my words o/
Southlight 2:59 pm
yeah i understand that
but like
that's kinda the strat of those types of shows
and my argument is just that more and more anime try to do that
spurred by the success of, unfortunately, kyoani
who's actually the #1 culprit of that stuff
Ecael 3:00 pm
can't we blame Key and galge in general before that
o/
though even before like, Kanon 2006 remake
there is a fair amount of that kind
jsut that KyoAni took it to an extreme with Clannad
Southlight 3:00 pm
those aren't anime tho
when it comes to the anime industry
Ecael 3:01 pm
weren't they? I vaguely recall a fair number even by 2005
Southlight 3:01 pm
i thinkt here were a bunch of bad adaptations that made ppl weary
but kyoani with key stuff and stuff like k-on luckstar and haruhi in particular
made the industry what it is today
Ecael 3:01 pm
fair enough, moe boom
Southlight 3:01 pm
with studios trying to strike gold with a handful of girls
i mean that's what you get with bakemonogatari
which ignoring all its meta and stuff
really sold on the basis of gahara and nadeko
Ecael 3:02 pm
anime that is
Southlight 3:02 pm
mmhmm
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EPT
