EPTOn December 02 2010 16:39 Southlight wrote:
http://www.mmv.co.jp/special/oretsuba/
Waaaaaaaaaaaao something to look forward to O_O
Wonder how they'll storyboard that though.
You're right about 6 and 7.
Hmm, I guess they didn't really explain this in the movie
A lot of this is speculation because it's not 100% clear (thus the power of the epilogue, because you thought you had it figured out), but...
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.mmv.co.jp/special/oretsuba/
Waaaaaaaaaaaao something to look forward to O_O
Wonder how they'll storyboard that though.
You're right about 6 and 7.
Hmm, I guess they didn't really explain this in the movie
A lot of this is speculation because it's not 100% clear (thus the power of the epilogue, because you thought you had it figured out), but...+ Show Spoiler +
Ryougi is actually one of four bloodlines along with Fujou (Kirie, Kohaku, Hisui), Asagami (Fujino), and Nanaya (aka. Tohno Shiki) that have some weird stuff going on. Now, what's explicitly stated is that somehow, via magic, the Ryougi lineage creates a soul-less body. The idea being that every person/soul can only master one thing over their lifetime due to a lack of focus and time. Thus, once they get the soul-less body, they hope for the materialization of multiple souls inside the body, because this is an unnatural process. As a result, they hope for Shiki/SHIKI occuring - it's also implied that this happens once every few generations.
What are Shiki and SHIKI? At first you think they're two minds, but then you realize that's not really the case. Coupled with the Rougi lineage you come to realize that they're two souls. This is why in ch/mov 6 Satsuki is able "recreate" SHIKI by reconnecting his memories into Shiki's, essentially "restoring" them on a "mind" level (because now she has his memories, his thoughts, etc.) but also, as I mentioned, exacerbating the sense of loss and perturbation because he's not actually there anymore, he's dead. Not to mention it can't be a pleasant feeling getting memories "of yourself" that weren't actually made by "yourself" and yet are being assimilated "as yourself." If I remember correctly the intent of Souren in doing this was to "break" her will, because he wanted her body, which he had (correctly) deduced was key to reaching the acasic record. What he didn't know, or rather...
The bombshell comes in the epilogue. She calls herself シキ (shiki), different from 式 (what you know as Shiki) and 識 (SHIKI).
"Hey, Kokutou, where do you think personalities reside?"
"... I don't know. But personalities are based on knowledge, so I guess it'd be in the head."
And then you get this epic speech:
The soul lives in the brain. If you only need the brain to keep people alive, then you don't need a body. As long as electricity is powering the brain, it's all that's needed to keep watching dreams -- yes, there was a magician that said that to Shiki once. The same answer as yours. That "personalities" are in the head.
But, that's wrong.
For example, Kokutou. You the person, you the personality, you the soul, are a combination of your history, your knowledge, and your empty body. The brain only creates knowledge, so with only a brain, you wouldn't actually result in a personality of a human.
... See, you can certainly extend your life with just your brain, but we recognize what we are only when we get a body. Because of a body, after you grow up together, you end up with the personality you have now. Some people love their bodies and might grow extroverted because of it, and some might hate their bodies and grow introverted because of it. Personalities CAN grow with just a body, but a personality grown purely out of knowledge would never gain self-esteem, and so it'd result in something wildly different from a person. And then you're left wondering if that's actually a personality, or just a simple calculator.
If you were to end up just being a brain, you'd have to create a whole new personality for "yourself as just a brain." You'd have to throw away the macro ego of a body, and root yourself in the smaller ego of knowledge.
It's not "there's knowledge and a body."
Knowledge is born after the body.
But a body that's created on the basis of knowledge, that wouldn't have knowledge. Because meat is just there. But meat also has a personality. Because it grew along with knowledge, and I'm the one that gave birth to knowledge.
She then calls herself "hardware without electricity" and refers to Shiki/SHIKI as software.
Adding to the Nasuverse complexity is that (and this was kind of hinted at in movie 4) Shiki, during her coma, was "swimming around" in the acasic record. Coupled with shiki's confident genie-like "Is there anything you want? Because I can make anything happen!" implies that she's got some sort of direct connection to the acasic record. However this connection isn't specified - an implication from 6 about Satsuki's lost memory and how the record stores all memories might imply that all physical bodies are tied to the acasic record, as that's where they come from. Or something. I don't think I want to give myself a headache pondering that
What are Shiki and SHIKI? At first you think they're two minds, but then you realize that's not really the case. Coupled with the Rougi lineage you come to realize that they're two souls. This is why in ch/mov 6 Satsuki is able "recreate" SHIKI by reconnecting his memories into Shiki's, essentially "restoring" them on a "mind" level (because now she has his memories, his thoughts, etc.) but also, as I mentioned, exacerbating the sense of loss and perturbation because he's not actually there anymore, he's dead. Not to mention it can't be a pleasant feeling getting memories "of yourself" that weren't actually made by "yourself" and yet are being assimilated "as yourself." If I remember correctly the intent of Souren in doing this was to "break" her will, because he wanted her body, which he had (correctly) deduced was key to reaching the acasic record. What he didn't know, or rather...
The bombshell comes in the epilogue. She calls herself シキ (shiki), different from 式 (what you know as Shiki) and 識 (SHIKI).
"Hey, Kokutou, where do you think personalities reside?"
"... I don't know. But personalities are based on knowledge, so I guess it'd be in the head."
And then you get this epic speech:
The soul lives in the brain. If you only need the brain to keep people alive, then you don't need a body. As long as electricity is powering the brain, it's all that's needed to keep watching dreams -- yes, there was a magician that said that to Shiki once. The same answer as yours. That "personalities" are in the head.
But, that's wrong.
For example, Kokutou. You the person, you the personality, you the soul, are a combination of your history, your knowledge, and your empty body. The brain only creates knowledge, so with only a brain, you wouldn't actually result in a personality of a human.
... See, you can certainly extend your life with just your brain, but we recognize what we are only when we get a body. Because of a body, after you grow up together, you end up with the personality you have now. Some people love their bodies and might grow extroverted because of it, and some might hate their bodies and grow introverted because of it. Personalities CAN grow with just a body, but a personality grown purely out of knowledge would never gain self-esteem, and so it'd result in something wildly different from a person. And then you're left wondering if that's actually a personality, or just a simple calculator.
If you were to end up just being a brain, you'd have to create a whole new personality for "yourself as just a brain." You'd have to throw away the macro ego of a body, and root yourself in the smaller ego of knowledge.
It's not "there's knowledge and a body."
Knowledge is born after the body.
But a body that's created on the basis of knowledge, that wouldn't have knowledge. Because meat is just there. But meat also has a personality. Because it grew along with knowledge, and I'm the one that gave birth to knowledge.
She then calls herself "hardware without electricity" and refers to Shiki/SHIKI as software.
Adding to the Nasuverse complexity is that (and this was kind of hinted at in movie 4) Shiki, during her coma, was "swimming around" in the acasic record. Coupled with shiki's confident genie-like "Is there anything you want? Because I can make anything happen!" implies that she's got some sort of direct connection to the acasic record. However this connection isn't specified - an implication from 6 about Satsuki's lost memory and how the record stores all memories might imply that all physical bodies are tied to the acasic record, as that's where they come from. Or something. I don't think I want to give myself a headache pondering that
Man, the novel sounds a ton more complex than the movies were. Isn't there supposed to be an Epilogue OVA for KnK that is supposed to come out sometime soonish? You think it will cover all this stuff as well?
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CFCcD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/R0saQ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/j5B15.jpg)
