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On December 13 2014 08:00 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 07:37 Chro wrote:The wiki is a joint effort of alot more people and they write it out so they don't forget other things, alot more reliable than one person. They can be wrong but its a good place to check random facts. Here's him jumping on franky with just his belly (shield on back). "First you float then you smash into the ground". Another example It just seems like a stronger version of the fruit. Wouldn't say its oda not being creative, its just what the character is. In your very same example he says "my stomach hurts." Why does he say that? Miss valentine didn't say that when she plopped down. He says it because it's the shield on his back that's really heavy. He smashes the shield as well as himself onto the target. This is why he takes it off and holds it out in front of him when he's doing 10,000 ton attacks. He doesn't want to crush himself but he can pull off a 10 ton fall with minimal damage. So my theory still holds up in favor of "well it's just a stronger version of another fruit :^)"
If he was saying he hurts from the shield being too heavy, he'd be complaining about his spine being broken. Not to mention, there is no reason for him to not fall-shield first if it is indeed the shield that's heavy. In fact, if he is making his shield weigh 10 tons, and is intentionally falling on the bottom, then I'm pretty sure that makes Vise actually mentally retarded. Additionally, Miss Valentine never belly flopped anyone. Just sayin.
And I'm surprised people are citing the One Piece wiki and other people aren't pulling the "its not accurate!" card on it. I remember when I said Vice Admiral Bastille was a Giant, people denied it and the Wiki, despite him being a Giant.
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My personal opinion on the wiki is that there is much less discussion. There are talk pages, but that doesn't mean there is fruitful discussion happening there.
The one thing for that the One Piece wiki excels is having extra sources. Some facts are proven with citations directly from manga chapters(such as we can do), some sources are extra material like databooks that were only released in japan or things Oda said in SBS(which usually gets cut from translations).
Oddly enough those sources are often named but not linked, so not accessible from the web or requiring it's own google search.
Conclusion: Some people with (imported japanese?) physical copies of the manga material post some stuff on the wiki you won't find elsewhere on the web.
For example, it stated Ace as having a 550 million bounty. This is nowhere in the manga.
The article previously linked as source an impossible to navigate japanese flash online....thing.
Now it has a slightly better source, a minibook "dive to grand world" which you can at least google.
So no, I don't think the wiki is unfailable.
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Being on the wiki doesn't make something legit, but they have their sources from each chapter at the bottom. The actual pages are an educated guess given the information at hand until oda specifically states otherwise. Having all that info available allows for better decision making rather than trying to remember everything perfectly. Then theres the SBS stuff and other random info thats from oda thats not directly from the manga. Its cool to disagree with the wiki but check their sources first and attempt to see where they're coming from.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
I think the bottom centre image here: http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/770/12, supports the idea that he makes other things (in this case the shield thingy he carries) heavier. It looks like the shield is the heavy thing, and that he is hanging onto it as it falls.
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On December 13 2014 15:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote:I think the bottom centre image here: http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/770/12, supports the idea that he makes other things (in this case the shield thingy he carries) heavier. It looks like the shield is the heavy thing, and that he is hanging onto it as it falls.
To be honest, I think not using the shield as a weapon doesn't really make sense in either case. That panel can also be explained as him holding the shield in an attempt to minimise air resistance. To me, it doesn't imply anything about the nature of his fruit.
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There are lots of possible theories you could draw from that. One is that the shield is harder than his flabby stomach, which seems like it would make for a stronger attack than constantly belly flopping people.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Oh, in all cases the shield would be at the bottom. What I mean is that if he was the one who was weighing more, he'd be pressed against the shield, and wouldn't be hanging there as though he was being dragged by the shield.
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If you think that Machvise's ability is to manipulate the weight of objects, in this case his shield, then answer me this: how can Machvise float in the air? In addition the name of his moves seems to indicate that he does indeed increase his own weight, hense a name such as 10 ton Vice.
I honestly think that all the Oda fanboys are being blind to the obvious fact that the quality of Dressrosa has been declining. Just look at the latest chapter. The most important thing happening in this chapter was 4 pages devoted to two almost unknown characters duking it out. Surely we got to know about Hajrudin's dream of becoming king of the giants, and some people see this as an indication that he will eventually join the Strawhats. If that is true, then this stands as one of the worst character introductions so far in One Piece. Alternatively it is as stated above: just a fight between two minor characters.
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On December 13 2014 18:22 Prog455 wrote:
If you think that Machvise's ability is to manipulate the weight of objects, in this case his shield, then answer me this: how can Machvise float in the air? In addition the name of his moves seems to indicate that he does indeed increase his own weight, hense a name such as 10 ton Vice.
I honestly think that all the Oda fanboys are being blind to the obvious fact that the quality of Dressrosa has been declining. Just look at the latest chapter. The most important thing happening in this chapter was 4 pages devoted to two almost unknown characters duking it out. Surely we got to know about Hajrudin's dream of becoming king of the giants, and some people see this as an indication that he will eventually join the Strawhats. If that is true, then this stands as one of the worst character introductions so far in One Piece. Alternatively it is as stated above: just a fight between two minor characters.
So minor characters having MEANINGFUL fights is bad quality for you?
I am sorry but if you only want main characters to appear, go and read Naruto/Bleach. I totally enjoy minor characters getting screen time and I'd be fine reading only about them for months since I know the main characters will appear one day again and I am in no hurry to see One Piece end.
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well the giant is again reminding us about the 'honour of warrior' fighting spirit of them giants isn't it. Maybe some giant character will show up soon, either way it is nice to have some varieties here anyway.
Overall an epic chapter, look at those glorious 2 pages panel, this 'war' is almost as big as whitebeard war arc now.
about machvise, if his ability was to manipulate the object in contact to him then it doesn't explain why he can float up in the air so i think he is basically an upgraded version of miss valentine. So ya it is rather lazy tbh but it comes with a 'side effect' of him getting hurt more if he was attacked when he is using his ability so it is kinda balanced (note how he used a shield to help him with the side effect, 10ton is probably fine attacking with his body but not 1000 or above). Honestly id prefer oda comes out with something less similar to previous devil fruits (i think at this stage there was a couple of them overlapped by now) and it opened the dangerous zone that indicating some devil fruits have different version/levels.
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I think those 2 fruits are irrelevant in the face of Enel-sama.
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On December 13 2014 16:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Oh, in all cases the shield would be at the bottom. What I mean is that if he was the one who was weighing more, he'd be pressed against the shield, and wouldn't be hanging there as though he was being dragged by the shield.
I'm sorry to tell you that this is a basic physics misconception.
The only thing weight does to increase your fall speed is beat air resistance. Feathers, paper sheets and the like have higher air resistance than gravitational pull.
So anything that isn't light enough to be flung into the air by a stiff breeze falls at the same speed.
In the instance of Mach vise it's more likely that the distance to his shield is simply Machvise holding it at .... fully stretched arm(excuse the clumsy english expression).
Anyway, the big thing is that Machvise got taken out by what would normally be fodder(character introduced in this very arc). So, at least this arc, we can expect the fighter from the coliseum to actually do something. Which is great, since the Doflamingo family outnumbers the Strawhats. And then there's half of the SH crew out at sea, too.
So I guess we will get longer fights for Law, Luffy, Zoro and Kyros, maybe Franky and Robin, too.
Any Doflamingo family members that are not fighting these will probably get off-paneled or uhmmm, let's call it "on-paneled" in 2 pages like machvise.
Right now the manga has too much happening. I find it hard to care about all the action at once.
It worked better for the marineford war, because we saw it from just Luffy's perspective. Despite Whitebeard's side being the good guys, we were only shown snippets when something interesting or significant happened, but no status updates on how a single fight went.
And I still remember when someone was arguing Marco the Phoenix fruit was completely overpowered and unbeatable with infinite life and magic blue flames. And then someone posted how Garp just knocked him out with one punch^^
Good times.
edit: it was not marcus the phoenix^^
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I don't mind minor characters fighting it out like this in the least. I liked the part with the Giant beating Vise. I just... think Vise himself has a power that is uncharacteristically lazy for Oda.
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You guys are taking this too seriously. Just enjoy the manga
Btw check this project OP in full color+ Show Spoiler +
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 14 2014 04:23 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 16:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Oh, in all cases the shield would be at the bottom. What I mean is that if he was the one who was weighing more, he'd be pressed against the shield, and wouldn't be hanging there as though he was being dragged by the shield. I'm sorry to tell you that this is a basic physics misconception. The only thing weight does to increase your fall speed is beat air resistance. Feathers, paper sheets and the like have higher air resistance than gravitational pull. So anything that isn't light enough to be flung into the air by a stiff breeze falls at the same speed. In the instance of Mach vise it's more likely that the distance to his shield is simply Machvise holding it at .... fully stretched arm(excuse the clumsy english expression). Anyway, the big thing is that Machvise got taken out by what would normally be fodder(character introduced in this very arc). So, at least this arc, we can expect the fighter from the coliseum to actually do something. Which is great, since the Doflamingo family outnumbers the Strawhats. And then there's half of the SH crew out at sea, too. So I guess we will get longer fights for Law, Luffy, Zoro and Kyros, maybe Franky and Robin, too. Any Doflamingo family members that are not fighting these will probably get off-paneled or uhmmm, let's call it "on-paneled" in 2 pages like machvise. Right now the manga has too much happening. I find it hard to care about all the action at once. It worked better for the marineford war, because we saw it from just Luffy's perspective. Despite Whitebeard's side being the good guys, we were only shown snippets when something interesting or significant happened, but no status updates on how a single fight went. And I still remember when someone was arguing Marco the Phoenix fruit was completely overpowered and unbeatable with infinite life and magic blue flames. And then someone posted how Garp just knocked him out with one punch^^ Good times. edit: it was not marcus the phoenix^^
You don't have to be so patronizing. I know how physics work. You're the one who doesn't understand how manga works. And your physics are also wrong.
So anything that isn't light enough to be flung into the air by a stiff breeze falls at the same speed.
That's patently false. Different objects have different terminal velocities due to differences in buoyancy and air resistance depending on the mass and shape of the object. A skydiver hanging on to a heavy object would be dragged by the object in the same way Machvise is.
Of course Machvise started nowhere nearly high enough for that to matter. However the only way to express that the object is the one that is more massive you be to draw him like that. Additionally, I wouldn't say that manga respects physics. For example:http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2369-12/one-piece/chapter-262.html.
The image is fairly open to interpretation. I'd say its more likely that he's being dragged, but its definitely possible that he's just holding it like that. And yeah the issue of exactly how his fruit works is kinda silly and insignificant. But your critique of the physics involved is not a relevant nor even true point.
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On December 14 2014 05:06 SkelA wrote:You guys are taking this too seriously. Just enjoy the manga Btw check this project OP in full color + Show Spoiler +
how can people enjoy the manga when it's the worst chapter of all time?
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On December 14 2014 09:17 KazeHydra wrote:how can people enjoy the manga when it's the worst chapter of all time?
still better then any of bleachs chapters
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On December 14 2014 09:17 KazeHydra wrote:how can people enjoy the manga when it's the worst chapter of all time?
You enjoyed all the others, why can't you just enjoy this 1 shitty chapter? 
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On December 14 2014 09:17 KazeHydra wrote:how can people enjoy the manga when it's the worst chapter of all time?
worst chapter of all time is still the one where shanks lost his arm
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Mach vise is superhuman. All of the characters in One Piece are. He can take a 10 ton weight, put it on his back and bellyflop. This is why he does it. Because he can he doesn't give a fuck. Now a thousand tons or a million.. well that's a bit too much. This is why he takes the weight off and holds it in front of him. It all makes sense if you take a few minutes and flex those brain muscles. You just have to be willing to think it through.
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EPT
